Misc GHB vs GBL vs 1,4 butanediol

[its.euphoric]

I'm curious as to how people feel different on the different drugs?

I've only had gbl and 1,4. I can say that I kind of like 1,4 better. Mainly just cuz it tastes better, but I don't notice any differences in how I feel from them or negative side effects.
I also don't notice any tolerance issues from either of them, even when taking them every day, or sometimes all day.

I've heard that 1,4 usually tastes a lot worse than gbl, people saying it tastes like a toxic chemical, but the one I got, maybe it's very pure? but it hardly tastes like anything. It kind of has a weird almost nutty flavor but in a cup of water can hardly taste anything. If I'm going somewhere I put it in a small bottle that holds like 8ml of water. I can put half 1,4 and half water and drink it pretty easily, doesn't taste that bad.
The gbl I've gotten is usually... it seems almost burns my mouth and pretty much have to drink it in a cup of water, and has an almost sour taste.

I've read some things about 1,4 being toxic and some pretty bad things about it. Some people saying how they had stomach/ kidney pains and cloudy urine and feelings of nausea. I've never had any of this happen and am thinking maybe the 1,4 people got was not very pure?
Is pure 1,4 toxic?

I'm curious how gbl/ 1,4 compare to ghb though. How do they feel different from each other and are the differences in 1,4/ gbl to ghb very substantial?

 

[crazycatman]

GBL hit's faster, reaches a higher peak and wears off faster. GHB has a more gradual onset, longer less intense peak and wears off slower.

Also GBL tastes like paint thinner while GHB tastes like salty water.

Have no clue about 1,4 bdo

 

[synchrojet]

Of the three, GHB is the best choice in terms of health. While GBL does convert directly to GHB, this conversion results in a gradual depletion of potassium and as such will eventually lead to acidosis - something you definitely do not want. I know - a high percentage of very experienced users in this forum will no doubt disagree and cite various literature supporting their claims that GBL and GHB are in effect identical, but they are not. That's like saying that the effects of a prohormone bought a GNC are identical to the effects of injecting straight testosterone because said prohormone converts directly...no. So where am I getting my information from?

Several years ago I conducted my own research on the three drugs you mention. This research was done by directly chronicling each of their effects on my body via the use of monthly blood tests executed by a qualified physician. A perusal of my posts in 2005 - 2007 will allow anyone who cares to check for themselves to see the specific test results and my personal observations and opinions in real time.

One of the most seriously contested claims was this one pertaining to inappropriate GBL consumption resulting in acidosis. Its a very interesting and educating dialogue - I can remember some fairly animated responses!

Now, as to 1,4...this is actually a post-cursor of GHB, and as such has requires a different mechanism of conversion. The primary difference is that it occupies the alcohol dehydrogenase pathway. I observed an almost immediate negative impact on certain blood values (I don't recall at the moment the specifics so for that you need to research the record) but suffice it to say that it was enough to put me off it instantly and permanently.

With regard to GHB - during my testing phase I actually recorded an increase in kidney and liver function! This, and there were absolutely ZERO negative effects detected via blood analysis.

Now, that's not to suggest that GHB use is safe. Not by a long shot. In fact it is my belief that GHB use requires a higher level of awareness and discipline than just about any other drug. The parameters I found to be of greatest importance were those of dose frequency. (This is also true of GBL and even more so as dosing too frequently accelerates the acidifying effect). Ok, for me it worked out that if I waited for a minimum of four hours between doses I avoided the well known dopamine accumulation (it is conjectured by some that the rapid disintegration of dopamine is the culprit in the case studies involving serious 'withdrawal' effects) and that by incorporating this single rule the risk of said withdrawal was eliminated almost entirely. However, it was only with the conscious incorporation of an alkalizing diet that I finally achieved absolute immunity from any negative effect whatsoever. My personal approach was the incorporation of a generic wheatgrass and the almost daily consumption of white grapefruit juice. (The wheatgrass I used was Green Kamut if I recall). Also, it turns out that by incorporating an appropriate level of this the acidifying effects of GBL consumption may also be effectively neutralized, provided one waits the appropriate time between doses (I think my personal requirement turned out to be six hours).

Finally, the incorporation of taking two days off completely, every week and without exception, allowed me to consume both GBL and GHB - whichever I happened to have - for an extraordinarily long time without experiencing any negative sides.

That all being said, I quit everything GHB related for legal reasons, as the penalties involved for offenses with these compounds are grossly disproportionate in severity to even the harshest penalties for much harder drugs.

Incidentally, the reason that you perceive GBL to 'hit faster and harder' than GHB is because it is in fact a stronger dose of GHB on a ml by ml basis, specifically, 1 ml of GBL = 1.6 mils of properly distilled GHB. Couple that to the fact that in all likelihood your GHB is not distilled to its proper level and that ratio gets larger. I base the suggestion of diluted GHB on your claim that it tastes salty water - thoroughly distilled GHB is in fact nearly a solid at room temperature, and has a definite 'waxy' texture. It can be gently heated and then administered via traditional means, but if it doesn't tend to 'wax up' immediately then you can bet its a bit diluted. Since this dilution is only an excess of water it is of no concern and indeed helps keep one from dosing too high.

One last thing: STANDARDIZE your dose! This means always know your distillation ratio and always use an accurate dosing method such as a 3 ml syringe - which is what I used. Dosing by 'caps' or other such random method is a guarantee that a dosing incident will occur in the near future.

Hope this helps ya!

 

[its.euphoric]

Of the three, GHB is the best choice in terms of health. While GBL does convert directly to GHB, this conversion results in a gradual depletion of potassium and as such will eventually lead to acidosis - something you definitely do not want. I know - a high percentage of very experienced users in this forum will no doubt disagree and cite various literature supporting their claims that GBL and GHB are in effect identical, but they are not. That's like saying that the effects of a prohormone bought a GNC are identical to the effects of injecting straight testosterone because said prohormone converts directly...no. So where am I getting my information from?

Several years ago I conducted my own research on the three drugs you mention. This research was done by directly chronicling each of their effects on my body via the use of monthly blood tests executed by a qualified physician. A perusal of my posts in 2005 - 2007 will allow anyone who cares to check for themselves to see the specific test results and my personal observations and opinions in real time.

One of the most seriously contested claims was this one pertaining to inappropriate GBL consumption resulting in acidosis. Its a very interesting and educating dialogue - I can remember some fairly animated responses!

Now, as to 1,4...this is actually a post-cursor of GHB, and as such has requires a different mechanism of conversion. The primary difference is that it occupies the alcohol dehydrogenase pathway. I observed an almost immediate negative impact on certain blood values (I don't recall at the moment the specifics so for that you need to research the record) but suffice it to say that it was enough to put me off it instantly and permanently.

With regard to GHB - during my testing phase I actually recorded an increase in kidney and liver function! This, and there were absolutely ZERO negative effects detected via blood analysis.

Now, that's not to suggest that GHB use is safe. Not by a long shot. In fact it is my belief that GHB use requires a higher level of awareness and discipline than just about any other drug. The parameters I found to be of greatest importance were those of dose frequency. (This is also true of GBL and even more so as dosing too frequently accelerates the acidifying effect). Ok, for me it worked out that if I waited for a minimum of four hours between doses I avoided the well known dopamine accumulation (it is conjectured by some that the rapid disintegration of dopamine is the culprit in the case studies involving serious 'withdrawal' effects) and that by incorporating this single rule the risk of said withdrawal was eliminated almost entirely. However, it was only with the conscious incorporation of an alkalizing diet that I finally achieved absolute immunity from any negative effect whatsoever. My personal approach was the incorporation of a generic wheatgrass and the almost daily consumption of white grapefruit juice. (The wheatgrass I used was Green Kamut if I recall). Also, it turns out that by incorporating an appropriate level of this the acidifying effects of GBL consumption may also be effectively neutralized, provided one waits the appropriate time between doses (I think my personal requirement turned out to be six hours).

Finally, the incorporation of taking two days off completely, every week and without exception, allowed me to consume both GBL and GHB - whichever I happened to have - for an extraordinarily long time without experiencing any negative sides.

That all being said, I quit everything GHB related for legal reasons, as the penalties involved for offenses with these compounds are grossly disproportionate in severity to even the harshest penalties for much harder drugs.

Incidentally, the reason that you perceive GBL to 'hit faster and harder' than GHB is because it is in fact a stronger dose of GHB on a ml by ml basis, specifically, 1 ml of GBL = 1.6 mils of properly distilled GHB. Couple that to the fact that in all likelihood your GHB is not distilled to its proper level and that ratio gets larger. I base the suggestion of diluted GHB on your claim that it tastes salty water - thoroughly distilled GHB is in fact nearly a solid at room temperature, and has a definite 'waxy' texture. It can be gently heated and then administered via traditional means, but if it doesn't tend to 'wax up' immediately then you can bet its a bit diluted. Since this dilution is only an excess of water it is of no concern and indeed helps keep one from dosing too high.

One last thing: STANDARDIZE your dose! This means always know your distillation ratio and always use an accurate dosing method such as a 3 ml syringe - which is what I used. Dosing by 'caps' or other such random method is a guarantee that a dosing incident will occur in the near future.

Hope this helps ya!

great post. 1,4 negatively affected blood levels? in what way? Did you feel worse physically as well?

 

[sekio]

Most people I've heard talking about the "toxicity" of 14BDO only ever come up with vague excuses like "it effected my blood levels" or "it made me feel ill". I've never seen hard evidence pointing to BDO ingestion as a liver stressor.

a high percentage of very experienced users in this forum will no doubt disagree and cite various literature supporting their claims that GBL and GHB are in effect identical, but they are not

welll, inasmuch that GBL is not active on its own at GABA-B (it needs to be hydrolised to GHB), I doubt very much your analogy. In terms of kinetics it does hit faster though.

 

[synchrojet]

I'll look for copies of those tests - if I cant find them I'll get copies from my doc - I have absolutely no reason to fabricate something of this nature and the inference that I am presenting a 'vague excuse' is irritating to say the least. Excuse for what? I'm trying to help a person avoid negative experiences - and I speak from vast personal experience, not to mention I am possessed of a qualifying intellect to say the least. But lets just be clear on this - what would qualify as 'hard evidence' of BDO toxicity for you? Slightly elevated ALK PHOS? Or does it have to be comprehensive enzyme levels approaching 3000? Help me out with what part to post and I am more than happy to share - what do you think I'm doing here, grandstanding? Sheez.

 

[cpuller]

GBL has a much faster onset, its almost as quick as drinking alcohol (diluted alcohol) and it is kind of nasty to the stomach intestines or whatever, I frequently took a shit shortly after and felt stomach ache a bit further up like near the solar plexus.

Making it into GHB was a good idea beause I had no aches anymore but it felt a bit like its not working and I had to go like 50% higher with dosages at least.

With the GHB salt I had a feeling it dehydrates you somehow, (It probably does)

 

[sekio]

But lets just be clear on this - what would qualify as 'hard evidence' of BDO toxicity for you? Slightly elevated ALK PHOS? Or does it have to be comprehensive enzyme levels approaching 3000?

I'm thinking "slightly elevated" liver enzymes is not enough evidence. All I'm saying is that I have not seen a case where someone ingested BDO and then actually had a doctor tell them "look your enzymes are off the damn charts". What I have seen is people complaining of vague gut pain and a "toxic feeling" (?!).

The WHO and NTP reports on butanediol suggest that it's basically nontoxic. Even at 500mg/kg/day it is only a minor irritant.

 

[its.euphoric]

I'm thinking "slightly elevated" liver enzymes is not enough evidence. All I'm saying is that I have not seen a case where someone ingested BDO and then actually had a doctor tell them "look your enzymes are off the damn charts". What I have seen is people complaining of vague gut pain and a "toxic feeling" (?!).

The WHO and NTP reports on butanediol suggest that it's basically nontoxic. Even at 500mg/kg/day it is only a minor irritant.

That's good to know, I have been taking 1,4 quite a bit, I hope it's not hard on my liver. As far as negative effects I notice no difference vs GBL anyway.

 

[belfort]

ive taken alot of ghb and 1 4 Bdo...Ghb tasted nasty and it seemed to take longer to kick in compared to 14 bute..personally i liked 1 4 bute better because it was exact, i had it measured perfectly and the effects were almost identical to ghb..what i noticed with 1 4 buta is that no matter how much i took i never got dizzy or nauseous whereas with ghb if i took too much the room starts spinning..

Gbl is good stuff but i notice mild stomach pains from it...

i have taken gallons of 1 4 butanediol and i noticed no ill effects from it tbh...no stomach or liver pain or issues like others claim..

Ghb/bdo/gbl still remain my favorite drug..no drug makes me as energetic and social and just 'feeling good' like this class of drugs..

 

[its.euphoric]

ive taken alot of ghb and 1 4 Bdo...Ghb tasted nasty and it seemed to take longer to kick in compared to 14 bute..personally i liked 1 4 bute better because it was exact, i had it measured perfectly and the effects were almost identical to ghb..what i noticed with 1 4 buta is that no matter how much i took i never got dizzy or nauseous whereas with ghb if i took too much the room starts spinning..

Gbl is good stuff but i notice mild stomach pains from it...

i have taken gallons of 1 4 butanediol and i noticed no ill effects from it tbh...no stomach or liver pain or issues like others claim..

Ghb/bdo/gbl still remain my favorite drug..no drug makes me as energetic and social and just 'feeling good' like this class of drugs..

I will say I had a bad reaction the other day. I was drinking all the night before, and in the morning I woke up and decided to dose with 1,4. I (stupidly) kept dosing with 1,4 because I wasn't feeling it, even though... I knew that if your body is still processing alcohol, your body won't process the 1,4. Also it probably wasn't a good idea period to dose after a night of binge drinking considering your body uses the same enzymes to process each other.

But I dosed way too much 1,4 and then woke up later that night and had passed out for hours... Then for the next days I had weird aches and really bad anxiety and insomnia... I'm pretty sure I did some damage to my liver...

 

[BDOGBLGHBitall4me]

I would have to agree with you and even more so now that I have been taking sigma Aldrich regent plus 99% or alfa asar 99% I didn't really know there was a difference in the China stuff,bdo I was getting on the DNM's or the janky websites that will sell to who ever orders. The big plastic gallon bottles that look the ones most cleaning supplies come in is normally how its packaged and it tastes like robot piss. If you could imagine what robot piss would taste like. The. Lab quality stuff from sigma or alfa is almost tasteless and hardly causes me to gag or cringe every time I take it plus my dose lowered from 3.5 -4. To around 2-2.5 ml and same effect. It's very possible that there is a lot of 14bdo that may be not just 14bdo and may have some additives. idk why though it's only 50 dollars with shipping for an in tire liter. Granted I had to register a new business build, after researching a feild that uses bdo often and knowing enough about it to not look like an idiot when these people are asking what the inted purpose and uses of the bdo are . A website and host it along with an 800 number to really sell it before I was able to successfully place an order with them that would pass their review process. Still don't understand why it is cut or less effective and more chemical tasting

 

[BDOGBLGHBitall4me]

I'm curious as to how people feel different on the different drugs?

I've only had gbl and 1,4. I can say that I kind of like 1,4 better. Mainly just cuz it tastes better, but I don't notice any differences in how I feel from them or negative side effects.
I also don't notice any tolerance issues from either of them, even when taking them every day, or sometimes all day.

I've heard that 1,4 usually tastes a lot worse than gbl, people saying it tastes like a toxic chemical, but the one I got, maybe it's very pure? but it hardly tastes like anything. It kind of has a weird almost nutty flavor but in a cup of water can hardly taste anything. If I'm going somewhere I put it in a small bottle that holds like 8ml of water. I can put half 1,4 and half water and drink it pretty easily, doesn't taste that bad.
The gbl I've gotten is usually... it seems almost burns my mouth and pretty much have to drink it in a cup of water, and has an almost sour taste.

I've read some things about 1,4 being toxic and some pretty bad things about it. Some people saying how they had stomach/ kidney pains and cloudy urine and feelings of nausea. I've never had any of this happen and am thinking maybe the 1,4 people got was not very pure?
Is pure 1,4 toxic?

I'm curious how gbl/ 1,4 compare to ghb though. How do they feel different from each other and are the differences in 1,4/ gbl to ghb very substantial?

I noticed the same thing about the taste. I'm not sure as I have been a long time user of ghb until recently losing the perfect gbl connect over seas and switching to 14bdo .
All the bdo I was getting had that robot piss taste like a an automotive chemical almost. Most of it came from one of two sources. Recently I got 3L of recent plus from sigma (at about 10th of the price ) and it has no flavor in comparison. And seems to require less per dose as well as limit the green feeling that I would get once in a while from the other bdo. Does anyone know what's up with that and is there different grades of bdo. I'm sure cutting pure bdo with water would not result in a worst chemical tasting product. ???

 

[belfort]

^^u find that Gbl has same effects as Bdo?which is better in your opinion?

 

[llamer]

Man I regularly chicken out from taking GBL when I could really use it simply because of how averse to the smell and taste of it I am. It's been many many years since I tried 14B but it's good to know people still talk fondly of it.

GHB sometimes gives me a headache due to the salt content (5-6 gram dose range). I'd like to go the Mg route but the chemistry looks challenging. GBL is alright but seems to be a bit more nauseating to me, not just on the stomach but the whole vertigo sensation. But the peak is phenomenal otherwise -- like being in bed with the person you love, all from the comfort of being alone!

 

[tunesey]

Of the three, GHB is the best choice in terms of health. While GBL does convert directly to GHB, this conversion results in a gradual depletion of potassium and as such will eventually lead to acidosis - something you definitely do not want. I know - a high percentage of very experienced users in this forum will no doubt disagree and cite various literature supporting their claims that GBL and GHB are in effect identical, but they are not. That's like saying that the effects of a prohormone bought a GNC are identical to the effects of injecting straight testosterone because said prohormone converts directly...no. So where am I getting my information from?

Several years ago I conducted my own research on the three drugs you mention. This research was done by directly chronicling each of their effects on my body via the use of monthly blood tests executed by a qualified physician. A perusal of my posts in 2005 - 2007 will allow anyone who cares to check for themselves to see the specific test results and my personal observations and opinions in real time.

One of the most seriously contested claims was this one pertaining to inappropriate GBL consumption resulting in acidosis. Its a very interesting and educating dialogue - I can remember some fairly animated responses!

Now, as to 1,4...this is actually a post-cursor of GHB, and as such has requires a different mechanism of conversion. The primary difference is that it occupies the alcohol dehydrogenase pathway. I observed an almost immediate negative impact on certain blood values (I don't recall at the moment the specifics so for that you need to research the record) but suffice it to say that it was enough to put me off it instantly and permanently.

With regard to GHB - during my testing phase I actually recorded an increase in kidney and liver function! This, and there were absolutely ZERO negative effects detected via blood analysis.

Now, that's not to suggest that GHB use is safe. Not by a long shot. In fact it is my belief that GHB use requires a higher level of awareness and discipline than just about any other drug. The parameters I found to be of greatest importance were those of dose frequency. (This is also true of GBL and even more so as dosing too frequently accelerates the acidifying effect). Ok, for me it worked out that if I waited for a minimum of four hours between doses I avoided the well known dopamine accumulation (it is conjectured by some that the rapid disintegration of dopamine is the culprit in the case studies involving serious 'withdrawal' effects) and that by incorporating this single rule the risk of said withdrawal was eliminated almost entirely. However, it was only with the conscious incorporation of an alkalizing diet that I finally achieved absolute immunity from any negative effect whatsoever. My personal approach was the incorporation of a generic wheatgrass and the almost daily consumption of white grapefruit juice. (The wheatgrass I used was Green Kamut if I recall). Also, it turns out that by incorporating an appropriate level of this the acidifying effects of GBL consumption may also be effectively neutralized, provided one waits the appropriate time between doses (I think my personal requirement turned out to be six hours).

Finally, the incorporation of taking two days off completely, every week and without exception, allowed me to consume both GBL and GHB - whichever I happened to have - for an extraordinarily long time without experiencing any negative sides.

That all being said, I quit everything GHB related for legal reasons, as the penalties involved for offenses with these compounds are grossly disproportionate in severity to even the harshest penalties for much harder drugs.

Incidentally, the reason that you perceive GBL to 'hit faster and harder' than GHB is because it is in fact a stronger dose of GHB on a ml by ml basis, specifically, 1 ml of GBL = 1.6 mils of properly distilled GHB. Couple that to the fact that in all likelihood your GHB is not distilled to its proper level and that ratio gets larger. I base the suggestion of diluted GHB on your claim that it tastes salty water - thoroughly distilled GHB is in fact nearly a solid at room temperature, and has a definite 'waxy' texture. It can be gently heated and then administered via traditional means, but if it doesn't tend to 'wax up' immediately then you can bet its a bit diluted. Since this dilution is only an excess of water it is of no concern and indeed helps keep one from dosing too high.

One last thing: STANDARDIZE your dose! This means always know your distillation ratio and always use an accurate dosing method such as a 3 ml syringe - which is what I used. Dosing by 'caps' or other such random method is a guarantee that a dosing incident will occur in the near future.

Hope this helps ya!

Great post got any input on Phenibut inquiring minds would like to know