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Misc GHB for sleep and nootropics, anyone have experience?

bk2schoo_bk2coo

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Nov 21, 2007
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Hello, I have a couple questions and I really hope someone can help. SWIM is prescribed GHB for narcolepsy. He notices though that if he takes it every night it gets to a point where he's so well-rested that he can't possibly sleep without it and this scares him. He once stayed up for 2 days in attempt to stop taking it. He is trying to find a way to only take it sometimes and still be able to sleep normally on other nights.

The reason why is because it starts to get to him after awhile. He feels a lack of enthusiasm for anything and no motivation plus low sex drive, although not necessarily depressed. He's awake but doesn't feel like doing anything. He'd like to give his neurotransmitters a rest every now and then. He takes 500mg l-tyrosine in the morning and 400mg mucuna pruriens to help recover and this does help but only a little. But he wonders if this is safe to do long term? Is this the most effective way to overcome these problems? I know that you guys are probably not doctors, nor do we expect expert medical advice and he will research any tips you can give me thoroughly before deciding if they are right... I'm just wondering if anyone has some experience dealing with something like this.

Also he wonders if taking GHB long term will have a dangerous effect on his neurotransmitters. Is it possible they will be damaged or changed because of it?

Thanks a lot in advance for any suggestions.
 

Xorkoth

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Hey there, I was about to say welcome to Bluelight but I see you joined almost as long ago as me. We don't use SWIM here, it doesn't do anything to protect you and it makes posts awkward and annoying to read. Just FYI. :)

As far as taking GHB long-term on a daily basis, GHB is a very addictive drug. I got 200 grams of it (not prescribed) and took it most nights, several times a night, and by the end of it I was physically dependent, I started getting tremors and intense anxiety when I ran out. Have you ever experienced physical dependence to it?

There will be some amount of receptor downregulation when taking something chronically, but I'm not sure what the dose of Xyrem (or whatever the prescribed GHB brand is) is. At lower doses, GHB agonizes the GHB receptor sites (our bodies actually make trace amounts of GHB and use it as a neurotransmitter), but at higher doses it also crosses over into GABA-B receptors which is what is responsible for the physical dependence and the more intoxicating effects. If the dose is fairly low the effect might be relatively minimal long-term. The good news is, since GHB is an endogenous neurotransmitter, it is quite non-toxic (unless you overdose), and our bodies are built to utilize GHB so I think receptor/brain/body damage is quite unlikely. Your biggest concerns are going to be potential physical dependence, and difficulty sleeping without it.

I assume it works for your narcolepsy? The downsides might well be a worthwhile trade-off if you suffer without the medication. But if you're concerned or would like to try to be off of it for a while to give yourself a chance to reset, there is a drug called Modafinil that sometimes gets prescribed for narcolepsy, too. It's basically a semi-stimulant that keeps you awake, but doesn't get you high or make you feel stimulated. I was on that for a little while (I was falling asleep uncontrollably... of course it was because I had severe sleep deprivation because of staying up all night and doing drugs, but I didn't want to tell my doctor that). You could try bringing up the idea with your doctor if you're not comfortable staying on GHB indefinitely.
 

bk2schoo_bk2coo

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Nov 21, 2007
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Hey there, I was about to say welcome to Bluelight but I see you joined almost as long ago as me. We don't use SWIM here, it doesn't do anything to protect you and it makes posts awkward and annoying to read. Just FYI. :)

As far as taking GHB long-term on a daily basis, GHB is a very addictive drug. I got 200 grams of it (not prescribed) and took it most nights, several times a night, and by the end of it I was physically dependent, I started getting tremors and intense anxiety when I ran out. Have you ever experienced physical dependence to it?
Hey thanks for the reply!

The first time I started taking it, and decided to stop for awhile because I was losing too much weight, I did feel what you're talking about. It was scary, my heart was beating so fast b/c I tried to quit cold turkey and just stayed up all night. I ended up having to taper down slowly instead. However, I've found that since I started taking the nootropics to get my dopamine back during the day that I don't experience this anymore. I was worried though that the nootropics might be bad to mix with the ghb though long term. Do you know anything about that? Do people who take Xyrem also take anti-depressants?

I don't take what I'm prescribed anymore either. So I only dose twice a night 2.75 to 2.5g. I try to stop taking it sometimes for a couple weeks and then start again once my sleep debt starts to get bad again and I'm falling asleep everyday. I'd like to think that this is better for me since I'm not constantly depleting my dopamine and serotonin every single night.

And if I drink a lot I don't take it, just go to sleep until I wake up and then I take one dose. That's the only way that I can fall asleep without it though which sucks. I've tried smoking a ton of weed and taking benadryl and it doesn't work. In order to quit I have to taper down slowly or just not sleep at all for one night. Both of these methods suck but I don't see any other way. I wish I could find the right balance to be able to sleep without it whenever I want.
 

Xorkoth

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I don't know about Xyrem and antidepressants though I expected them to not interact ad they work on different systems. Taking L-Dopa (in the form of mucura pruriens extract) every day can be dangerous and in some cases can, over time, lead to Parkinson's disease (incidentally, it is also prescribed to Parkinson's patients. Basically it makes you body produce more dopamine which is good sometimes, but if you do it every day, you body will get used to more dopamine so your receptors will upregulate and then if you stop, you r body expects more dopamine.

GHB does release some dopamine downstream due to its effect on the GHB receptor sites, but it has no effect on serotonin so you don't need to worry about that. It's a very clear drug, the problem is it's addictive. It also produces a dopamine rebound when you wake up, some people like it but I find it unpleasant, I feel jittery, anxious, and if it's the middle of the night all the shadows will be moving around at me. Some of the wildest, weirdest dreams I've ever had were when I woke up at like 5am after falling asleep with GHB, and had dopamine rebound.

I honestly like phenibut better. It's quite similar to GHB ne in effects, but it's readily available online and totally legal, it's cheap, and it lasts for like 24-36 hours. It's hard to dose right, but when you do it provides a very similar state as GHB, but less intense and MUCH longer lasting. I have no idea if it would help with narcolopsy though.
 

bk2schoo_bk2coo

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What is a dopamine rebound? Never felt anything like that. I just wake up feeling unmotivated to do anything sometimes. But once I take my l-tyrosine and take a lot of potassium and magnesium I feel better.

Luckily, I haven't been taking the mucura pruriens a lot. I only take it every now and then and just 400mg. I will probably stop taking it altogether now that you've mentioned this to me though! One thing I did try differently recently that really worked was l-theanine. I drink green tea, which is a great source of l-theanine, and it instantly calms me and puts me in a more normal and motivated mood than just l-tyrosine alone.

From what I've read, it does affect serotonin (one source https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2911496/), which explains why l-theanine worked better. I need to take it a bit longer to say for sure though. My next plan is to try taking 5-htp and GABA to try and go to sleep after taking lower doses of the Xyrem. I've read that 's a good stack that makes you feel sleepy and I did feel a lot more tired near bed time after drinking the green tea which was an amazing step up from not feeling tired at all when I'm ready to sleep.
 

Xorkoth

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Try GABA by iself first, for me, GABA supplementation makes me break out in a rash and it feels shitty, and I'm not the only one I've read about it happening to. I take L-theanine liberally whenever I take phenibut or GHB or anything like that, the next day toi help with the negative feeling you have the next morning. By dopamine rebound, by the way, I mean that GHB is well-known for causing a dopamine rebound. Agonizing the GHB receptors causes an eventual downstream of release of dopamine. So when it was originally sold, as a bodybuilder supplement, the idea was to take a dose before bed, then when it's time to wake up you leap out of bed feeling pumped and ready.

However, for me the dopamine rebound is shitty. If I take GHB at midnight and sleep, I'll wake up at 5am and lay there half awake with my eyes open and have really weird dreams that I am seeing with my eyes open... if I go to the bathroom, all the shadows swirl and turn into everything I imagine. And then there's no way I'm going back to sleep, I feel energized but also unpleasant.
 

bk2schoo_bk2coo

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That's crazy... I always thought the dopamine release happened right away, which is why you feel so good when you take it. I also don't feel pumped and ready when I wake up. My first thought is always that I wish I could keep sleeping because there's nothing I wanna do anyway (no motivation). I'm not used to being unable to decide when I wake up. But it's impossible unless I take more which I refuse to do. However, for a while the doses I take under 3g will keep me asleep for a full 8 hours so I can't complain. Once they start lasting for less time is when I usually decide to start tapering down.

I will give the GABA a try and the 5-htp and see if that breaks the insomnia. Thanks for all your help :)

One more question though, what would cause the lack of interest in sex and what could be done about that?
 
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Xorkoth

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Well, whenever I'm withdrawing from anything I lose interest in sex. Perhaps you're experiencing light withdrawals during the day? Do you feel like having sex while you're actually on GHB? For me, GHB is THE BEST sex drug, when I'm on it the only thing I want to do is have sex... for hours. But then when it comes down, it's the opposite.
 

bk2schoo_bk2coo

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Perhaps. I guess it's technically a withdrawal if you can't sleep right? I always thought I couldn't sleep because I was so well-rested but now I'm starting to realize that it's because of the interference of all your brain chemicals caused by the G. Sometimes I do wanna have sex and other times I don't, I found that it's extremely difficult to finish. I usually just smoke some weed and go to sleep after taking my dose b/c I actually just wanna use it for sleep. The L-Theanine and L-tyrosine during the day has made it a lot easier to get in the mood but it's still not like I was before in my natural state.

I've just read something about people using beta-alanine to sleep while withdrawing (these were extremely heavy users). Any experience with that? I'm having trouble seeing the connection as it's supposed to be a pre-workout thing that gives extra endurance.
 

bk2schoo_bk2coo

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UPDATE: The L-theanine works wonders. I drank another cup of matcha when I woke up yesterday. I actually fell back asleep for 45 minutes after it kicked in. My mood for the rest of the day was amazing. And last night I was able to sleep normally for a couple hours before waking up. And that was from just one teaspoon of matcha in the morning. My mood upon waking today was also absolutely amazing, and my dose lasted for longer than it usually does.
 

Wiserthanearlier

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They taste completely different. Ghb is a salt, can be powdered. Gbl, is a liquid and a solvent. Tastes like melted plastic and very corrosive.

Ghb and sex.... omg that is heaven :)
 

Xorkoth

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Dude, you asked it in like 5 threads and people keep answering it for you. It's the same answer every time. You have the information you're asking for man! GHB is basically always found as a liquid because when the powder is completely dried, it absorbs moisture from the air like crazy and will turn into a thick liquid in a short amount of time.

But GHB tastes like salt, and GBL tastes really bad. That's the way to tell the difference. Of course, GBL converts to GHB in the body so in the end your brain is getting GHB either way.
 

timtaylorsoton

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If you stop taking GBL/GHB after regular use you will have trouble getting any sleep whatsoever. To get out of that cycle mirtazapine is really good, doctor will prescribe it if you explain the situation honestly...then you stop the mirtazapine after a few days ( makes me feel just generally tired all the time which is rubbish)...one question though, why does being so dependent on it for Narcolepsy worry you?? Man up!! :) ...the thing about the low sex drive is weird, for most other people , one of the reasons it's taken is it helps your sex drive, so not sure what's happening there...
 

bk2schoo_bk2coo

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I think it's because of the increased serotonin turnover and constant loss of dopamine, because I also feel very unmotivated if I don't take l-tyrosine. I do get an increase in sex drive and motivation when I take that and especially if I take a mucuna pruriens with it. So far the l-theanine has also been helping too b/c that also raises dopamine levels.

When I'm on it of course, I feel more loving and sexual but then I can't finish for some damn reason. But it's during the day that I just can't get THAT interested in sex. I have to coax myself into it and then it's easy from there but the initial arousal is barely there. (I'm a woman btw)

I guess it just bothers me mostly b/c of that, I'd like to be more into not only for myself but my partner too. Also I hate having to take so many supplements just to feel normal during the day. Like what's the point of having full energy if you don't feel like doing anything and you're slightly anxious? It takes me a couple hours of taking supplements and just sitting there in the morning to feel like I wanna do anything. So that's why I'm trying to find a way that I can take it sometimes, and not others, like when I really need it but not constantly... I have yet to figure that out though.
 

timtaylorsoton

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Just saw your update, you sorted it yourself, that's cool....and then saw your next reply...sorry, didn't realise you're a woman....in my experience it heightens the whole sexual experience, postpones orgasm , harder to get to but is more intense (sorry if this getting a bit too personal here!)....I expect too many supplements may impact each other, have contraindications (that the term?), perhaps just stick to the G for a while? A dose of G, 1.5ml pre any kind of sexual stuff would fix it. Though then you're not taking it just for the narcolepsy which you might see as the wrong way to go? And the G should fix the anxiety really.
 
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bk2schoo_bk2coo

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Just saw your update, you sorted it yourself, that's cool....and then saw your next reply...sorry, didn't realise you're a woman....in my experience it heightens the whole sexual experience, postpones orgasm , harder to get to but is more intense (sorry if this getting a bit too personal here!)....I expect too many supplements may impact each other, have contraindications (that the term?), perhaps just stick to the G for a while? A dose of G, 1.5ml pre any kind of sexual stuff would fix it. Though then you're not taking it just for the narcolepsy which you might see as the wrong way to go? And the G should fix the anxiety really.
I think you're missing what I'm saying. As a result of taking it every night for narcolepsy I have developed these other things during the day (when I'm not taking it) which I never used to have: low libido, lack of motivation and anxiety... That's why I started the supplements, b/c they help me feel normal again.

I was trying to find a way that I could take the G when I need it for sleep, but then easily stop taking it. As I've found that when I want to stop I can't sleep without it at that point and it's really frustrating.
 
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