General Sex Work Posts Moved from Sugar Daddy Thread: refer to new Sex Work thread for continuing discussion

[tubgirl.jpg]

And just cause someone agrees doesn't make it not exploitation.

While I did agree, and do, when you talk about exploitation, doesn't people sign up to this voluntarily...?

I've been broke and homeless, living barely above poverty for some time on a few occassions. I know I could've offered up my ass or suck dicks behind Mickey D's, but I did other criminal behaviour instead.

What I mean is, these are adults. Selling your body is never the only option, unless of course you're being trafficked.
But to sign up voluntarily on a app to make bank by selling sex/sexuality, well, that's a choice.
Instead of that, you can knock over a liqour store. Breaking and entering. Stealing, looting, robbing drug-dealers.

But they chose to sign up and do this. If anything, they're putting themselves up for being exploited.

Or have I misunderstood how this app works?

 

[JessFR]

While I did agree, and do, when you talk about exploitation, doesn't people sign up to this voluntarily...?

I've been broke and homeless, living barely above poverty for some time on a few occassions. I know I could've offered up my ass or suck dicks behind Mickey D's, but I did other criminal behaviour instead.

What I mean is, these are adults. Selling your body is never the only option, unless of course you're being trafficked.
But to sign up voluntarily on a app to make bank by selling sex/sexuality, well, that's a choice.
Instead of that, you can knock over a liqour store. Breaking and entering. Stealing, looting, robbing drug-dealers.

But they chose to sign up and do this. If anything, they're putting themselves up for being exploited.

Or have I misunderstood how this app works?

All of that can be true yet NONE of it requires that I hold any respect or positive view of people who make use of people selling themselves.
As I pointed out with unconscionable contacts, the law accepts that you can agree to something yet have circumstances be so one side that they shouldn't be held to it.

Also, having a choice doesn't mean you have a better choice.

Let me put it this way, lets say you're desperate for money, lets say you have a child to support or a drug habit to support or whatever. And lets say you 'consent' under that pressure to be used by someone else sexually, and they will pay you.

I am not gonna have any time or respect for the person paying that person. They're taking advantage for them for their own ends. That the person comprehends and decides doing it is the least bad option doesn't mean I should have any respect for their exploiter and it doesn't mean I shouldn't condemn them.

And it's not a true free consent. In my view the government/society should provide better alternatives so that the only people engaging in that kind of work are the ones that are truly choosing to because they want to.

Some people might come back to that and say "well I don't wanna work at mcdonalds I feel exploited blah blah". To which I've already given my answer. I don't think that's the same. Sexual exploitation is far more likely than other forms to result in long term psychological harm to the person, which in turn further increases their odds of even more problems down the line.

In short, just because everyones agreeing, does not mean it's ok.

Say I give you a "choice", I can kill 1 of your family members, who you love, or I can kill you. If you make no choice I kill you both. So you make a choice. Are you truly responsible for your death or the death of that family member? Or of youself? Of course not. I'm the villian in that story. That you made the choice with the available options fully comprehending the stakes does not make it any less my responsibility.

EDIT: Fuck I just realized I've made another analogy and someone's gonna come and go "but noones being threatened with death here!" :D

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

yet NONE of it requires that I hold any respect or positive view of people who make use of people selling themselves.

I agree, 100000%.

Also, having a choice doesn't mean you have a better choice.

Absolutely not - but in my book, the worst choice is selling your body.
In my book, it's better to knock over a convinience store. There is always another choice then selling your body.
And again, I think even trying to stick-up drug dealers who might drop you dead on the spot is better than selling sex.

And lets say you 'consent' under that pressure to be used by someone else sexually, and they will pay you.

Yeah, that's fucked up, but what I was trying to convey was that instead of giving consent to these types of depserate measures, there are other ways.

I am not gonna have any time or respect for the person paying that person. They're taking advantage for them for their own ends.

Nor should anyone. It's adisgustnig fucking industry.

I am on your page Jess, I really am - what I was trying to say was simply that this type of resort isn't the only one.
Yeah, it's fucking scary to rob or steal, you might die or end up behind bars - but, again, I feel that it's risking doing time instead of letting a disgusting, mouthbreeder get his way with you is clearly the better option.

I don't know if this made it clearer or murkier, but hopefully you get my point.

 

[JessFR]

I am on your page Jess, I really am - what I was trying to say was simply that this type of resort isn't the only one.
Yeah, it's fucking scary to rob or steal, you might die or end up behind bars - but, again, I feel that it's risking doing time instead of letting a disgusting, mouthbreeder get his way with you is clearly the better option.

I'm surprised how many people take this view. I'd rather hurt myself than hurt other people.

In practice though I've done plenty of both.

 

[w01fg4ng]

As I've said my problem is just people of wealth and stability taking advantage of poorer less stable people. That's my problem with this kinda thing and I don't think it's the same as Walmart exploiting it's workers or whatever else might be going on.

You have a problem with capitalism and it's not really on topic at all.

Adults consenting will always be adults consenting.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

I'm surprised how many people take this view. I'd rather hurt myself than hurt other people.

In practice though I've done plenty of both.

But knocking over a store or robbing someone can be done with ZERO violence.
You can even be polite while doing it.

EDIT; well, if you've done it, you know it can be done civilized, right? No need to scar the clerk for life.

 

[JessFR]

But knocking over a store or robbing someone can be done with ZERO violence.
You can even be polite while doing it.

EDIT; well, if you've done it, you know it can be done civilized, right? No need to scar the clerk for life.

Even in an ideal situation, prostitutions legal where I lived at the time, robbing people is uhh, not. And the idea of withdrawing in jail terrifies me to the depths of my soul.

Getting back on topic though. Sure, I suppose there are other options. But they're not great either. I'd still rather people get official sanctioned support and avoid the whole issue entirely.
There's also that point I made earlier about who do you decide to shoot. 2 bad options doesn't mean either of them have truly been made freely. And ultimately this is about the ethics of such relationships.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Even in an ideal situation, prostitutions legal where I lived at the time, robbing people is uhh, not. And the idea of withdrawing in jail terrifies me to the depths of my soul.

Getting back on topic though. Sure, I suppose there are other options. But they're not great either. I'd still rather people get official sanctioned support and avoid the whole issue entirely.
There's also that point I made earlier about who do you decide to shoot. 2 bad options doesn't mean either of them have truly been made freely. And ultimately this is about the ethics of such relationships.

I'd be more scared if I had to prostitute myself than going to jail. Like, waaaaaaaay more.
BUt yeah, fuck that.

Most definitely agree that people should get official sanctioned support instead.

Shoot?

 

[JessFR]

I'd be more scared if I had to prostitute myself than going to jail. Like, waaaaaaaay more.
BUt yeah, fuck that.

Most definitely agree that people should get official sanctioned support instead.

Shoot?

Seriously? I mean, I could perhaps see that if it were just going to jail, but withdrawing in jail? Nah. The idea terrifies me more than just about anything.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Seriously? I mean, I could perhaps see that if it were just going to jail, but withdrawing in jail? Nah. The idea terrifies me more than just about anything.

I'd rather withdraw in jail, then be high with a dick in my ass.

 

[JessFR]

I'd rather withdraw in jail, then be high with a dick in my ass.

Oh well then I got bad news. Chances are you won't get to be high while you do it anyway.

In all seriously, I reaaaally hated prostituting myself.. But.. I think even now I'd still do it again before going through a full cold turkey withdrawal.

I wouldn't exactly call that enthusiastic consent though.

 

[mal3volent]

Age and sexual preferences are meaningless and stupid concepts

age is a stupid concept in sexual relationships?

 

[JessFR]

age is a stupid concept in sexual relationships?

I suspect they meant adult sexual relationships.

I still wouldn't call it a meaningless concept though.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Oh well then I got bad news. Chances are you won't get to be high while you do it anyway.

In all seriously, I reaaaally hated prostituting myself.. But.. I think even now I'd still do it again before going through a full cold turkey withdrawal.

I wouldn't exactly call that enthusiastic consent though.

I can't imagine what that is like. Fucking disgusting people who take advantage of those who need help the most.
Jesus. What's wrong with people? I'm sorry to hear you'd had to do that.

Despite the fact that you'd say yes, I'm starting to realize what coerced consent is. I'm slow sometimes, sorry.

I know I contradict myself, but as new details unravel, it requires a new critical overview of my stance.

But I still want a sugar-mama. That part is carved in stone, haha.

 

[JessFR]

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Well that's not exactly how it happened. I never once, ever, have actually gone looking for anyone to trade sex for money or drugs too.

Guys found me. And early on I said no, I said no a lot of times. I kept getting asked. I had guys where I said no and they literally just came back and asked again.

When you look vulnerable, and you're a young women, that's what some guys do.

You seriously gonna tell me that that's not exploitation?

To my mind it's exploitation whenever one person is quite obviously taking advantage of another. When they have far more power and capacity to make choices and use that imbalance to their benefit and the other person's detriment.

That's wrong.

As I said before, if it were literally the only choice, I'd probably still prostitute myself. And that's pretty much what the situation was at the times it happened by and large. I could do it, or be sick and have to try and keep getting money the next day sick (oh did I mention it was winter?)

Could I still have said no? I suppose. But once you stretch consent and free will that far, you may was well discount the whole concept of addiction.

 

[JessFR]

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What kinda twisted logic is it where an some guy goes to a homeless addict, offers to pay them for sex, gets turned down, then, knowing they clearly don't wanna do it, comes back and says shit like "oh come on it'll be over real quick!".

Annnnnd it's the addict who took advantage of them? That's completely ass backwards.

Explain how that makes any sense?

 

[JessFR]

@F.U.B.A.R., I think you're a good guy, I strongly suspect that you haven't really considered this angle..

But.. Something I think I should perhaps say, is that what you're describing, is very much how men mentally justify the abuse, and particularly sexual abuse they inflict on sex workers.

Cause.. That's how they work it out in their head, they go "well I'm paying them, if they really didn't want it they didn't ha e to agree in the first place, really I'm the victim here, it's not my fault that I have these impulses, really they're taking advantage of me!".

And then they go out and shoot up Asian massage parlors.

The sex worker is not taking advantage of the customer. It's the customer who constantly is pushing the limits and acting like they should be allowed to do anything they like because they paid money.

Men aren't owed sex. They're not entitled to it from anyone. And they can't possibly be "exploited" by throwing money at the targets of their abusive behavior.

 

[JessFR]

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[Edited by mod to align with previous edits of F.U.B.A.R.s post]

You can't truly consent under such insane degrees of duress. Imagine if you signed a contract in return for alcohol, and you were alcohol dependant. No judge in the first world would hold you to that contract.

And regardless of whether it's consent or not, it is still unquestionably exploitation and it should not be defended by anyone.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

@F.U.B.A.R., I think you're a good guy, I strongly suspect that you haven't really considered this angle..

But.. Something I think I should perhaps say, is that what you're describing, is very much how men mentally justify the abuse, and particularly sexual abuse they inflict on sex workers.

Cause.. That's how they work it out in their head, they go "well I'm paying them, if they really didn't want it they didn't ha e to agree in the first place, really I'm the victim here, it's not my fault that I have these impulses, really they're taking advantage of me!".

And then they go out and shoot up Asian massage parlors.

The sex worker is not taking advantage of the customer. It's the customer who constantly is pushing the limits and acting like they should be allowed to do anything they like because they paid money.

Men aren't owed sex. They're not entitled to it from anyone. And they can't possibly be "exploited" by throwing money at the targets of their abusive behavior.

I do kind if understand what you're saying Jess, and for the record I have never used the 'services' of a sex worker. But if women weren't prepared to offer that service in the first place, then there would be no punters. However, there may be significantly more rapes and child abuse cases...

 

[JessFR]

I do kind if understand what you're saying Jess, and for the record I have never used the 'services' of a sex worker. But if women weren't prepared to offer that service in the first place, then there would be no punters. However, there may be significantly more rapes and child abuse cases...

Do you ever wonder to yourself why you're not asking this the other way around? That if there were no customers there'd be no prostitutes?

Cause it's far more the guys who want there to be prostitutes than the prostitutes would wanna be prostitutes given other options.

And yet you describe it in the reverse.

And do you not see how fucked up that last comment is? I mean it might be true, but essentially it's suggesting quite probably correctly, that a lot of men use prostitutes to act out their violent sexual desires in a way they know they'll get away with.

And indeed they do. It happens every day.

Sex workers aren't an alternative to those men victimizing and raping people, they ARE the victims. Just the condoned and partially compensated victims.

Here's a better idea. We stop condoning men behaving like that. We stop letting them get socialized with such fucked up attitudes. And we don't condone or accept it when it happens.