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For TRT users: are you worried of losing access/what would you tell someone interested?

Mycophile

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So, I have never used any REAL PEDS, i mean, just some stimulants or Kratom or whatever, but not real ones.

I have high cholesterol which i need to get down, and i know TRUE steroids raise that, so that's only ONE of many reasons i have no interest in ''real'' steroids, but being that I am turning 40 soon and plan on going back to brazilian jiu-jitsu and other martial arts which i have been away from for a year but used to do for decades, and because I am wracked with injuries (THREE ACL tears and chronic neck issues) I do at times wonder about TRT.

I know it's not something that makes someone superman, and that the idea more or less would be to make me feel like I felt whenever my test levels were at their highest, like hopefully how i felt at age 18 or whatever, in the body of a 40 year old of course.

But aside from the fact that i have no idea where to get TRT, no idea how to do it ''properly'' or if it's safe with my cholesterol levels that i need to get down, and that i don't know if i could ever afford it, there is of course the fact that I hear that if you do it you pretty much have to do it for life (does one need to take it on a monthly basis or what” ?) or your body stops producing its' own testosterone.

Now...that's a scary proposition.

1--So the first question i'd even ask is; what would happen to a chronic TRT patient who suddenly and completely went off their test. shots?

Would they basically just wither away and become like a skinny old man with no muscle, no sex drive, no energy, getting sick all the time, etc?


Cause that's the kind of thing i imagine, and it sounds like a nightmare, like having cancer or some shit, though i have no clue if it's really THAT BAD...but clearly not what one wants.


So then comes the final 3 part question; for you guys who get TRT;

2--How do you pay for it, how much does it cost and does your insurance cover it?

3--Do you ever worry about not being able to afford it or get access to it any more if you happen to move, maybe even to another country or your doctor dies or retires or whatever?


And finally 4---How in your opinion could someone new to TRT who DOES NOT make a lot of money and certainly never will be filthy rich lol, and who has no connections, feel confident that they could start TRT and know that at any and every point in their life from then on they'll always be able to find a doctor to prescribe it to them AND be able to afford it so they don't simply wither away and become a skeleton with no testosterone?


I mean, I am dependent on benzos, but in the rare case of emergency i could be tapered off at most hospitals throughout the country or the world, but as far as i know there's no ''testosterone taper''.

So we are talking about tampering with a complex bodily function which once TRULY altered beyond a certain point CAN NEVER return to normal.

That's a pretty hefty commitment considering many of us have no clue where we'll be financially or geographically in the coming years of our lives.

What if someone on TRT becomes homeless? (not that IF i ever get TRT i believe I'll be homeless lol, but again, i don't make much ), how would they not wither away on the street?

I suppose in that case food would be a bigger issue, lol, but i digress.

I think everyone gets my point.

What if your source gets cut off?

I don't know i'd ever get TRT, but these would be the first questions in mind if i did, cause it sounds like a done deal, something once committed to that you must stick with till the day you die.

Thanks.
 

Mycophile

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Is it the fact that my posts are long that they often take so long to get responses?

I know I need to work on that.

I mean, more simply put, how does anyone who takes TRT and knows they need monthly injection feel safe committing to that for life if they could be cut off at anytime or lose access or money to afford it?

I went more into depth than that before, but if no one's going to answer, that's the TLDR version.
 

OpiateKiller

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Is it the fact that my posts are long that they often take so long to get responses?

I know I need to work on that.

I mean, more simply put, how does anyone who takes TRT and knows they need monthly injection feel safe committing to that for life if they could be cut off at anytime or lose access or money to afford it?

I went more into depth than that before, but if no one's going to answer, that's the TLDR version.
Hey I can answer a few of these for you. So ultimately when you rely on testosterone and have to stop for whatever reason, it isn’t “fun” but personally I have fairly heavily abused PEDs and in my experience coming off of them is not that bad. While it may be scary it’s really not that bad and a lot of it is mental, nothing like a drug withdrawal such as opiates. You may notice some depression, slight fatigue and sluggishness but really that should be it.

I don’t fear not being able to get them because they are relatively easy to find from people. If you have the right connections steroids are inexpensive and a lot of people do them and can get them. If you have the courage to ask someone at your gym whose clearly not natural they either may be friendly and offer to help, or deny it and walk away.

I can’t speak on real TRT and insurance or prices but I would expect insurance to cover fully. I will say I don’t think an endocrinologist visit will be cheap, I bet it’s fairly expensive
 

Mycophile

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Hey I can answer a few of these for you. So ultimately when you rely on testosterone and have to stop for whatever reason, it isn’t “fun” but personally I have fairly heavily abused PEDs and in my experience coming off of them is not that bad. While it may be scary it’s really not that bad and a lot of it is mental, nothing like a drug withdrawal such as opiates. You may notice some depression, slight fatigue and sluggishness but really that should be it.

I don’t fear not being able to get them because they are relatively easy to find from people. If you have the right connections steroids are inexpensive and a lot of people do them and can get them. If you have the courage to ask someone at your gym whose clearly not natural they either may be friendly and offer to help, or deny it and walk away.

I can’t speak on real TRT and insurance or prices but I would expect insurance to cover fully. I will say I don’t think an endocrinologist visit will be cheap, I bet it’s fairly expensive
Well, that's good to hear, but i have no interest at all in ''steroids'', and from what i have been told, ''properly'' done TRT is really in an entirely different league from steroids.

Would you not agree that this is the case?

I have many reasons for not wanting to try straight up steroids, but one of them is that i have high cholesterol that i need to get down, and isn't it true that steroids raise cholesterol?

Aside from that, as a martial artist i don't want to be taking something that makes me so much stronger than everyone else that i feel i am cheating.

I want my technique to shine, but what i would like most is to have the recovery time that i had at whatever point in my life when my test levels were highest, like i don't know when that would have been, probably like 18 or something.

And I mean, are you really saying that if you get on TRT for life and get cut off that you won't basically become, well...like, a bitch for lack of a better word? HAHAHAHA.

I mean, once you've gone and permanently altered your hormones so that they, at least from what i've heard, no longer produce testosterone on their own, would you not become super weak, injury prone, tired, lack sex drive, feel sick, etc?

When people take TRT, do they usually take it monthly or bi-monthly or what?

And do most TRT doctors just put you in some kind of a ''normal range'', and what is a ''normal range'', or will they turn you down if you ask for anything beyond that because you can't prove you have hypogonadism or any of those conditions?

From what i understand, one is playing with fire to ask their test levels to be raised beyond what would normally be possible for an average human, and i doubt i'd ever want to, through TRT or any steroid, raise my levels to some super human steroid freak level.

That seems more dangerous than something i'd like to do, and i also have other reasons it's just not what i want.

And really, what is the process like usually to get set up with a ''TRT doctor''?

Are these usually different from your general practitioner, and am I not likely to get shut down if i just asked a normal GP about it?
 

OpiateKiller

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Well, that's good to hear, but i have no interest at all in ''steroids'', and from what i have been told, ''properly'' done TRT is really in an entirely different league from steroids.

Would you not agree that this is the case?

I have many reasons for not wanting to try straight up steroids, but one of them is that i have high cholesterol that i need to get down, and isn't it true that steroids raise cholesterol?

Aside from that, as a martial artist i don't want to be taking something that makes me so much stronger than everyone else that i feel i am cheating.

I want my technique to shine, but what i would like most is to have the recovery time that i had at whatever point in my life when my test levels were highest, like i don't know when that would have been, probably like 18 or something.

And I mean, are you really saying that if you get on TRT for life and get cut off that you won't basically become, well...like, a bitch for lack of a better word? HAHAHAHA.

I mean, once you've gone and permanently altered your hormones so that they, at least from what i've heard, no longer produce testosterone on their own, would you not become super weak, injury prone, tired, lack sex drive, feel sick, etc?

When people take TRT, do they usually take it monthly or bi-monthly or what?

And do most TRT doctors just put you in some kind of a ''normal range'', and what is a ''normal range'', or will they turn you down if you ask for anything beyond that because you can't prove you have hypogonadism or any of those conditions?

From what i understand, one is playing with fire to ask their test levels to be raised beyond what would normally be possible for an average human, and i doubt i'd ever want to, through TRT or any steroid, raise my levels to some super human steroid freak level.

That seems more dangerous than something i'd like to do, and i also have other reasons it's just not what i want.

And really, what is the process like usually to get set up with a ''TRT doctor''?

Are these usually different from your general practitioner, and am I not likely to get shut down if i just asked a normal GP about it?
Steroids are the same thing as TRT. The staple of all steroid use is a testosterone base, the only difference is TRT doses range from 100-200 mg a week while bodybuilders and those doing a cycle doses can range from anywhere from 250 to over 1,000 mg a week.

TRT doctors will likely only prescribe testosterone not other steroids like Deca or Tren, Dianabol.. etc.

I mean since you’ve had major injuries I would suggest you try out a growth hormone and Deca cycle with a test base, but this isn’t just TRT this is diving into steroids.

just testosterone will completely change your life though, even at 200 mg a week. It’s better when you stop though and let your body restore and use it in moderation.200 mg of testosterone a week will not make you feel like you’re cheating, but it will give you some
nice increased recovery, strength and energy. Along with a sex drive boost.

go to your GP and tell him you did some research and think you have low T because you’re tired and fatigued all the time and can’t put on muscle. Ask for a hormone panel blood test to see. The problem is is if your test is in normal ranges they won’t prescribe or refer you to a TRT doctor. Hope this helps
 

Serotonin101

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Firstly this isn't a trt forum (it's in the sticky) but I'll do my best to answer.
1.sudden cessation would do as was previously mentioned. Some loss of energy and whatnot but you wouldn't feel much different than you do now if you are actually low. I'm in my late 20s and coming off isn't so bad even from supra physiological doses.
2. Paying woukd be done in the form of a copay at the pharmacy and whatever your office visits cost after insurance
3. I wouldn't worry about being cut off. Find a new doctor, it's not had especially with the growing trend of anti aging.
4. I'm confident. I have a lot of blue collar friends who work trade jobs in trt. They manage just fine.
 

Mycophile

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Steroids are the same thing as TRT. The staple of all steroid use is a testosterone base, the only difference is TRT doses range from 100-200 mg a week while bodybuilders and those doing a cycle doses can range from anywhere from 250 to over 1,000 mg a week.

TRT doctors will likely only prescribe testosterone not other steroids like Deca or Tren, Dianabol.. etc.

I mean since you’ve had major injuries I would suggest you try out a growth hormone and Deca cycle with a test base, but this isn’t just TRT this is diving into steroids.

just testosterone will completely change your life though, even at 200 mg a week. It’s better when you stop though and let your body restore and use it in moderation.200 mg of testosterone a week will not make you feel like you’re cheating, but it will give you some
nice increased recovery, strength and energy. Along with a sex drive boost.

go to your GP and tell him you did some research and think you have low T because you’re tired and fatigued all the time and can’t put on muscle. Ask for a hormone panel blood test to see. The problem is is if your test is in normal ranges they won’t prescribe or refer you to a TRT doctor. Hope this helps
I've heard that steroids and TRT done ''at normal range levels'' are world's apart by a number of people.

I was reading posts on facebook the other day by some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu guys and MMA fighters who use TRT, cause i myself do BJJ and i'm into that world, and one dude who even runs his own clinic was getting pissed cause he's like ''everyone thinks when i say that I am on TRT that it means I'm on steroids and I have to explain that they are NOT the same thing and that I'm just increasing my levels a bit to the point to improve my quality of life and decrease my chances of injury and increase recovery time, and they all stigmatize me as if I am using massive quantities of juice or something, and we need to end this stigma.''

A number of these guys were all trying to make it clear that they do NOT consider normal TRT done under medical supervision to be anything close to just taking steroids at random and trying to get as jacked as possible.

I'm aware that the basis of all steroids is raising testosterone, but the dose is what makes the poison as they say.

For example, I like Kratom and it is a very light partial against opioid and will hit certain opioid receptors but it is light years away from heroin or fentanyl, which i'd never touch.

I would assume that the difference between getting some light TRT to raise your levels to whatever they were when they were at their highest, but not beyond the range a human can have naturally, would probably be equally different from taking all these other ones like deca or Tren or whatever and trying to get your levels into the thousands so that veins are popping out of your arms every which way and people are asking you what you are on (and I'm not naive in thinking anyone can just take steroids and gain those results without working out REALLY REALLY hard, and that that is what is truly necessary to make them work, but regardless, i think you get my point )

I have both physical and moral concerns that will never allow me to try any kind of cycle of any kind of steroid or HGH.

I believe it would be dangerous for my heart and already high cholesterol to take steroids as well, and while i have had major injuries, i do physical therapy to help aid them and do not believe most doctors or athletes would say it is at all necessary for me to use high level steroids or HGH.

But, if I could find a TRT doctor who could figure out what, at age 40, my test levels might have been at their highest, lets say around age 18, and bring them back down to their, then yeah, that sounds pretty cool, given that there would not be all kinds of health concerns or that i wouldn't be cut off.

I mean, am i wrong in saying that the kind of TRT i am talking about is about as different from high level deca, tren and d-bol usage as kratom as from heroin?

Test is test and opioids are opioids, but everyone knows a low dose of kratom or codeine ain't the same thing as shooting up fentanyl lol.

Also, do these doctors try to figure out what your own personal test levels might have been when they were at their highest naturally and adjust them accordingly to that?

Like, at what age does your normal man have the highest test levels naturally and around what are they usually, and then what is usually the range for a 40 year old dude like me normally?

How many points would i probably be making it go up to?
 
Last edited:

Mycophile

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Firstly this isn't a trt forum (it's in the sticky) but I'll do my best to answer.
1.sudden cessation would do as was previously mentioned. Some loss of energy and whatnot but you wouldn't feel much different than you do now if you are actually low. I'm in my late 20s and coming off isn't so bad even from supra physiological doses.
2. Paying woukd be done in the form of a copay at the pharmacy and whatever your office visits cost after insurance
3. I wouldn't worry about being cut off. Find a new doctor, it's not had especially with the growing trend of anti aging.
4. I'm confident. I have a lot of blue collar friends who work trade jobs in trt. They manage just fine.
Ok, I'm not sure this answers all my questions but I guess i'm good for now lol.

So am I really not allowed to ask questions about TRT here, and if so, why not?

I mean, it's a PED and this is a harm reduction forum so where else should I ask?
 

Draven26

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I have been on TRT for 3 years now and the reason why I am on it is because my doctor put me on antidepressants after I quit using crystal meth. All that did was suppress my hormones and my testosterone level was 213 and normal wouldn’t be 450 or higher is what they told me.

ive been pinning 100mgs weekly of testosterone cypionate and I feel fine. Will get my bloods done to see if the doctor is going to want to bump it up higher because my energy levels have been kinda low and if he suggests it would be better to up the dose then we will do that. I don’t have any side effects other than oilier skin and some breakouts.

I do however fear being cut off or get paranoid thinking in the future what would happen if I lose my trt only because I knew a personal trainer who lost his TRT script and he eventually got sick and passed away within 4 months after his endocrinologist kicked him off but that was his fault for taking more than he was prescribed just to mess around and see how much bigger he can get and he was already pretty big and in good shape. But it scares me because I knew this dude pretty well and he didn’t drink or do drugs and he never had any health problems in the past and his wife told me to come over to visit to try and get him out of that funk but he was just really lethargic and fell ill and not having those hormones in check fucking killed him. So yeah it scares me if anything were to happen to my prescription and I’ve told my parents and my loved ones I don’t give a fuck if I have to kill someone I will just to stay on my treatment plan even if I have to buy my testosterone from a drug dealer that’s what I’m going to do. Fuck the law. No one is going to fuck with my health and my well being. That’s just how I feel about it but that’s my mindset. You can have a strong mentality but I’ve seen what happens to a big strong individual when they had their treatment stopped and 4 months later they vanished..fuck that! Better not happen to me and I’ll be sure it won’t ever happen
 

Mycophile

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I have been on TRT for 3 years now and the reason why I am on it is because my doctor put me on antidepressants after I quit using crystal meth. All that did was suppress my hormones and my testosterone level was 213 and normal wouldn’t be 450 or higher is what they told me.

ive been pinning 100mgs weekly of testosterone cypionate and I feel fine. Will get my bloods done to see if the doctor is going to want to bump it up higher because my energy levels have been kinda low and if he suggests it would be better to up the dose then we will do that. I don’t have any side effects other than oilier skin and some breakouts.

I do however fear being cut off or get paranoid thinking in the future what would happen if I lose my trt only because I knew a personal trainer who lost his TRT script and he eventually got sick and passed away within 4 months after his endocrinologist kicked him off but that was his fault for taking more than he was prescribed just to mess around and see how much bigger he can get and he was already pretty big and in good shape. But it scares me because I knew this dude pretty well and he didn’t drink or do drugs and he never had any health problems in the past and his wife told me to come over to visit to try and get him out of that funk but he was just really lethargic and fell ill and not having those hormones in check fucking killed him. So yeah it scares me if anything were to happen to my prescription and I’ve told my parents and my loved ones I don’t give a fuck if I have to kill someone I will just to stay on my treatment plan even if I have to buy my testosterone from a drug dealer that’s what I’m going to do. Fuck the law. No one is going to fuck with my health and my well being. That’s just how I feel about it but that’s my mindset. You can have a strong mentality but I’ve seen what happens to a big strong individual when they had their treatment stopped and 4 months later they vanished..fuck that! Better not happen to me and I’ll be sure it won’t ever happen
Hmmm, well, so here's some real talk.

Sounds like in certain cases a person could die or get super sick from being cut off from TRT, and I probably would not be willing to take that risk.

I have a few questions;

1--What is the normal range for a man my age do you think, which is that I'm about to turn 40, and in some ways i'm in good shape and i had done martial arts for decades, but have been very inactive the past year and put on weight and i just started taking a long break from drinking and kratom, both of which could effect testosterone and which i've done too much of?

2-- when is one's testosterone highest, like is it age 18 or 25 or whatever, and what would the normal man's test range be at its' highest during life naturally?

3--My biggest interest in this is because i have always wanted to an have an MMA fight, most likely it would have to be amateur, but i have never been able to make it happen, despite being a fairly high level in brazilian jiu-jitsu and also having trained in some other arts, and part of me wonders it now would not be possible if i didn't do TRT, though that really might be false.

What kind of gains would someone like me see in a combat sport like this if i just got a signifcant but not INSANE raise in my test levels, and what range would they probably change to?

4--I have had THREE ACL tears in my knees, 2 in my left and 1 in my right, and i have chronic neck problems, but it isn't like i hobble around, i'm doing ok, but i haven't trained in a long time, and i am afraid of hurting myself again, so would TRT make me significantly less likely to re-injure myself?

I fucking hate that i am turning 40, and i want to get back to training and achieve goals i failed at when younger.

I think in theory doing shit like this should not be necessary and is VERY VERY OFTEN frowned upon in the martial arts and really any sportive community, and I'd NEVER go the extra mile of taking REAL steroids, but everyone talks about this shit.

Some say it's no big deal, others say it's dangerous, but most sites i look up say that it is only as safe or as dangerous as HOW IT IS DONE, who is prescribing it, whether or not you get regular blood work and do everything your doctor says and keep a good diet and lifestyle, and i'm not exactly the healthiest dude in the world in my habits lol....so i just don't know....seems like i'll probably never feel able to take the chance but who knows...

And one more question;

5---I keep hearing that prostate cancer and heart attacks and massive increase in red blood cells is and cholesterol are risks, and i already have high cholesterol. Does any of this kind of shit scare you?

Thanks.
 

Serotonin101

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Ok, I'm not sure this answers all my questions but I guess i'm good for now lol.

So am I really not allowed to ask questions about TRT here, and if so, why not?

I mean, it's a PED and this is a harm reduction forum so where else should I ask?
4. This is not a forum for TRT discussion - even though many on opiates end up following that path - or emergency medical advice. However, we will allow discussion under the proviso that Bluelight cannot be responsible for any outcomes based on advice given. We will try our best to help but in most cases, your doctor or the ER/A&E should be your go-to on this issue.

That's straight from the forum guidelines at the top of the main page. It is a harm reduction site but trt discussion would be along the lines of asking about medical advice. The last part is why I let the post go.
 

Swim15

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I’d tell someone to be ready to be on for life, especially at your age.

I wouldn’t be any more worried about access than being on any other prescription medication.

Black market cost isn’t going to be more than about $10 a month and script can range from $10-100 for a 2-3 month supply.

Do your homework, get blood work, and if athleticism is what you’re after then go for it. I recently put a good friend/mentor of mine that’s 65 on TRT and he’s been loving it after about 3 months. Started at 250mg since he keeps up with a lot of high level athletes but had to much estrogen conversion and dropped him down to 125-150 and going to throw in some DHB or primo.

It’s only going to enhance life at your age IMO
 

Mycophile

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I’d tell someone to be ready to be on for life, especially at your age.

I wouldn’t be any more worried about access than being on any other prescription medication.

Black market cost isn’t going to be more than about $10 a month and script can range from $10-100 for a 2-3 month supply.

Do your homework, get blood work, and if athleticism is what you’re after then go for it. I recently put a good friend/mentor of mine that’s 65 on TRT and he’s been loving it after about 3 months. Started at 250mg since he keeps up with a lot of high level athletes but had to much estrogen conversion and dropped him down to 125-150 and going to throw in some DHB or primo.

It’s only going to enhance life at your age IMO
Ok, so, what do you think about the potential health risks, like do you think if done properly it increases the risk of heart disease, heart attack, cancers like prostrate cancer or high cholesterol?

And do you think it decreases the chances of injury/reinjury?

Would you suggest i just look for a clinic in my area, and how would i know if the clinic was a good one?

Couldn't there be bad quack-scam TRT doctors out there who just want to make a buck and don't care about their patients' health and how would i avoid those?

Also, I keep asking what the ''average range'' for a 40 year old man is and what the highest ''NATURAL average range'' for a man is and around what age his level's would be highest at, like 18 or 25, but no one is answering, so could you please?

And I know you mean well, but man, that ''at your age'' stuff is kind of getting under my skin LOL.

I mean, I know what you mean, but just cause I'm about to turn 40 doesn't mean i'm ancient LOL.

Most people i meet think I'm in my early 30s and I can still choke, arm lock and leg lock skilled 20 year olds at well on the Jiu-Jitsu mats.

I guess I might be having a mid-life crisis cause I am NOT happy about turning 40 in 4 months, but then again, feeling that way is about as common as getting pissed off when your car breaks down lol...
 

Swim15

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Honestly I think you’re over thinking lol. I was 19 when I jumped on, and starting med school next year now 7 years later, and have zero regrets.

As far as health risk - you can mitigate and if you’re replacing natural levels within reason then there shouldn’t be a huge one. Eat healthy, exercise, watch health markers and I don’t think it will impact life span much. Even if it takes a couple years off, so will a lot of things, and I’d rather live a shorter higher quality life than a longer lower quality one.

As far as injury - it helps repair your body faster than normal so it won’t hurt. As far as reinjury - lift shit that’s too heavy and you’ll get injured with or without steroids. That simple.

As far as getting test, I’m sure any hormone clinic in the US if that’s where your based is fine. If you don’t trust docs then do it yourself. I was able to look around the internet for about 6 months when I was 19 and find everything I needed.

For normal range, there isn’t one. I’ve seen guys at 450 be symptomatic and guys at 250 not have any reason to think their levels were low. Good docs treat symptoms, not numbers. If you’re going for sports performance as you age though, neither of those really matter.

By saying “your age” I mean that natural levels for many guys begin to drop after 35-40. Just medically what happens and people should be aware of that.

Tbh if you’re questioning this hard then you probably aren’t ready. I was so symptomatic that when I finally got my hands on test I was scared but didn’t care and no amount of fear would have hung me up. Life changed after that first shot and I felt 100x better. That said, I think it’s worth it for general life enhancement but gotta make that call yourself.
 

Draven26

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Yeah to be honest I wish I didn’t have to go on testosterone replacement at 30 years old and if I had known better I probably could of done just fine getting my numbers up with food that boosts testosterone naturally but they had me on several different antidepressants and God bless my ex wife at the time for supporting me but her sex drive wasn’t as high as mine so it didn’t upset her that we weren’t having that much sex she was just worried about me cuz j was an angry fuck thinking I was broken when really doctors were prescribing me bullshit drugs which should be banned because I’ll take my amphetamines all day but the fuck with anti depressants especially if you are a man it’s not meant for us all it will do is make you more depressed and suppress your testosterone levels. I don’t regret it being on TRT now though. I feel 18 again and it doesn’t make me feel like I’m Superman or anything crazy. I just recover a bit faster and feel better overall but you still gotta make healthy decisions and make sure you get your 8-10 hours of sleep which I do because I ditched the amphetamines lol
 

Mycophile

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Honestly I think you’re over thinking lol. I was 19 when I jumped on, and starting med school next year now 7 years later, and have zero regrets.

As far as health risk - you can mitigate and if you’re replacing natural levels within reason then there shouldn’t be a huge one. Eat healthy, exercise, watch health markers and I don’t think it will impact life span much. Even if it takes a couple years off, so will a lot of things, and I’d rather live a shorter higher quality life than a longer lower quality one.

As far as injury - it helps repair your body faster than normal so it won’t hurt. As far as reinjury - lift shit that’s too heavy and you’ll get injured with or without steroids. That simple.

As far as getting test, I’m sure any hormone clinic in the US if that’s where your based is fine. If you don’t trust docs then do it yourself. I was able to look around the internet for about 6 months when I was 19 and find everything I needed.

For normal range, there isn’t one. I’ve seen guys at 450 be symptomatic and guys at 250 not have any reason to think their levels were low. Good docs treat symptoms, not numbers. If you’re going for sports performance as you age though, neither of those really matter.

By saying “your age” I mean that natural levels for many guys begin to drop after 35-40. Just medically what happens and people should be aware of that.

Tbh if you’re questioning this hard then you probably aren’t ready. I was so symptomatic that when I finally got my hands on test I was scared but didn’t care and no amount of fear would have hung me up. Life changed after that first shot and I felt 100x better. That said, I think it’s worth it for general life enhancement but gotta make that call yourself.
Well I'm not really ''symptomatic'', I'm just a dude about to turn 40 with multiple knee injuries and chronic neck pain who is more tired and sore than I used to be and who would also want to use it to be able to perform better at Brazliian Jiu-Jitsu, but not so much that i'd feel i'd be cheating.

If you were symptomatic at age 19, which is probably around the time that most people's test levels at are their highest, then i'd assume you used some drugs to get it there, which of course i see nothing wrong with, or have a health condition, but that's not my situation, other than the fact that i have multiple chronic injuries, but i am not hobbling around.

I know you feel it's not a big decision, but i think this kind of thing is, and i am the kind of person who will always HEAVILY research any drug or supplement before i make the jump, ESPECIALLY something i'd need to be on for a lifetime, so NO, i'm not ready, and will not be till i have researched it VERY VERY heavily and talked to at least one, if not a few good doctors.

When you said ''if you are going for sports performance, neither of those matter'', then considering i'd want to feel more like i did when my natural test was at its' highest, like when i was 18, but NOT gain too much of an unfair decision or take an amount so high it's unhealthy, then how would a doctor decide what amount to give me?
 

Mycophile

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Yeah to be honest I wish I didn’t have to go on testosterone replacement at 30 years old and if I had known better I probably could of done just fine getting my numbers up with food that boosts testosterone naturally but they had me on several different antidepressants and God bless my ex wife at the time for supporting me but her sex drive wasn’t as high as mine so it didn’t upset her that we weren’t having that much sex she was just worried about me cuz j was an angry fuck thinking I was broken when really doctors were prescribing me bullshit drugs which should be banned because I’ll take my amphetamines all day but the fuck with anti depressants especially if you are a man it’s not meant for us all it will do is make you more depressed and suppress your testosterone levels. I don’t regret it being on TRT now though. I feel 18 again and it doesn’t make me feel like I’m Superman or anything crazy. I just recover a bit faster and feel better overall but you still gotta make healthy decisions and make sure you get your 8-10 hours of sleep which I do because I ditched the amphetamines lol
Well, I have to disagree with you there because i am on antidepressants and benzos which help me cause i have generalized anxiety disorder, OCD and depression and have found i need them.

I WISH i didn't, but i do, and they increase my quality of life, so i'd be foolish to stop unless i can get rid of the symptoms i take them for naturally, which i someday hope is possible.

And while I know some of them do reduce test., i have never noticed sexual side effects from them, but my klonopin does make me tired and make it a bit harder to work out as much, but i don't think that is from test. reduction but just tiredness, and i am working with my doctor to reduce my intake.

I am about to go on a SERIOUS diet and exercise regime to lose about 40lbs, rehab my knees and neck and get my cholesterol down, and whenever i do that I feel my energy levels and test. start to SOAR and feel great and more energetic and sleep better etc.

So, for someone like me who has had some chronic injuries and wants to perform better at his sport of choice you would recommend i DON'T try TRT?

Also, are all those test. supplements they sell on TV bullshit, and if so, how do they continue to make money selling them if they don't work at all?

The last time I asked that question here everyone told me that yes, all those supplements, brands of which i won't name, are bullshit, and i would assume they are, but i just don't get how they can keep selling them.
 

Swim15

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Well I'm not really ''symptomatic'', I'm just a dude about to turn 40 with multiple knee injuries and chronic neck pain who is more tired and sore than I used to be and who would also want to use it to be able to perform better at Brazliian Jiu-Jitsu, but not so much that i'd feel i'd be cheating.

If you were symptomatic at age 19, which is probably around the time that most people's test levels at are their highest, then i'd assume you used some drugs to get it there, which of course i see nothing wrong with, or have a health condition, but that's not my situation, other than the fact that i have multiple chronic injuries, but i am not hobbling around.

I know you feel it's not a big decision, but i think this kind of thing is, and i am the kind of person who will always HEAVILY research any drug or supplement before i make the jump, ESPECIALLY something i'd need to be on for a lifetime, so NO, i'm not ready, and will not be till i have researched it VERY VERY heavily and talked to at least one, if not a few good doctors.

When you said ''if you are going for sports performance, neither of those matter'', then considering i'd want to feel more like i did when my natural test was at its' highest, like when i was 18, but NOT gain too much of an unfair decision or take an amount so high it's unhealthy, then how would a doctor decide what amount to give me?
No, don’t get me wrong. It is a huge decision and you should do copious research, as you have, to decide if it’s right for you. That said, it doesn’t sound like you’re ready and sounds like you know that.

My decision was due to a genetic condition but was well worth the quality of life. At the end of the day, in my opinion, taking antidepressants, or more so benzos, regularly is a much, much heavier decision with significantly more potential negative consequences.comparatively, the risk is low - again, my opinion from experience and observation.

In terms of “cheating” I wouldn’t see it like that. Everyone, everywhere, in principle, has the ability to use or not use any drug that anyone else does and the majority of athletes, especially D1/pro/Olympic, are using something. Drug free sport is comedic at best. It just comes down to personal choice in how someone wants to train.

Benzos or AD’s could be seen as a form of cheating. Adderall for students- but you bet almost all med school students are chugging them down. LASIK surgery for athletes. Hell, even plant extracts or protein are things that can’t really be acquired through truly natural means. Anything can be construed as ‘cheating’ if desired.

As far as dose, doctors are going to go by numbers although many times they aren’t reasonable. I’ve seen several scripts this month written for 1ml test cypionate every 4 weeks which is absolutely absurd and will end up being a detriment to the patient. Choose a reasonable dose (100-200mg per week - the most common lower/higher ends for TRT I see prescribed) and do injections at least once per week for stable levels.

Either way, IMO - with the amount of hesitation you have, I’d sleep on it for 6 months and see how you feel. Anyone I’ve known that’s truly been ready has never looked back.
 
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Mycophile

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No, don’t get me wrong. It is a huge decision and you should do copious research, as you have, to decide if it’s right for you. That said, it doesn’t sound like you’re ready and sounds like you know that.

My decision was due to a genetic condition but was well worth the quality of life. At the end of the day, in my opinion, taking antidepressants, or more so benzos, regularly is a much, much heavier decision with significantly more potential negative consequences.comparatively, the risk is low - again, my opinion from experience and observation.

In terms of “cheating” I wouldn’t see it like that. Everyone, everywhere, in principle, has the ability to use or not use any drug that anyone else does and the majority of athletes, especially D1/pro/Olympic, are using something. Drug free sport is comedic at best. It just comes down to personal choice in how someone wants to train.

Benzos or AD’s could be seen as a form of cheating. Adderall for students- but you bet almost all med school students are chugging them down. LASIK surgery for athletes. Hell, even plant extracts or protein are things that can’t really be acquired through truly natural means. Anything can be construed as ‘cheating’ if desired.

As far as dose, doctors are going to go by numbers although many times they aren’t reasonable. I’ve seen several scripts this month written for 1ml test cypionate every 4 weeks which is absolutely absurd and will end up being a detriment to the patient. Choose a reasonable dose (100-200mg per week - the most common lower/higher ends for TRT I see prescribed) and do injections at least once per week for stable levels.

Either way, IMO - with the amount of hesitation you have, I’d sleep on it for 6 months and see how you feel. Anyone I’ve known that’s truly been ready has never looked back.
Yeah I mean i have been on Klonopin for many years and it causes me significant fatigue and i'm trying to find a way to cut down a lot now with my doctor but i need to be on SOME for my anxiety and benzos and ADs and all drugs have their risks. I was able to once get off of it for 9 months and was asymptomatic with no WD by some freak of consequence but my anxiety came back even thought my energy felt so better to be off. I hope someday i can get off it for good but for now i hope i can at least cut down some how.

Well, the cheating thing is a tough one cause I'm a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu brown belt and train in MMA and some other arts but my instructor is SUPER clean and straight edge and i think frowns on PEDs and i respect him immensely, and i have a goal to compete in unpaid Amateur MMA, though to be honest i think it might never happen, and i have not trained in a year and am super out of shape and about to go on a diet and start doing a lot of my necessary physical therapy for my knee and neck injuries just to get into a little bit of shape before going back.

But my thing is that if I ever did beat anyone in any competition i will not want to think it was the drugs that did it but me, and while it always comes mostly down to skill, every little thing counts, and if your opponent is clean and finds out you weren't a lot of people will basically claim that your victory is tainted.

IF it's pro MMA or pro Jiu-jitsu you'd be disqualified, but that is not the case in amateur as it's unpaid.

On the other hand, i am turning 40 soon, have 3 torn ACLs and chronic neck injuries, and if i could even do it i'd be 41-42 at best by that time, and a lot of people would probably not see a 42 year old with chronic knee and neck injuries taking low dose medically prescribed TRT in AMATEUR competition as cheating to the same extent as a 25 year old taking deca and HGH and all sorts of other steroids while fighting at Pro LOL.

It's just one of those areas where how people feel about it in competition is shady, and i DO believe that in pro sports a league should either be drug free or not.

Like, i'd be fine if there was Pro MMA where all PEDs are allowed, and then Pro MMA where none are allowed like it is now, just 2 different leagues lol.

Anyways, obviously I am not close to make this decision which is why i started this thread and why i'll continue to research.

Couple other questions though;

1--Do you find your sleep improved by TRT and think you need less sleep to feel refreshed and also less time to recover from working out?

2--Was it you or someone else who said that you thought if i did it right with a doctor and ever lost access that i'd only go back to feeling like a normal 40 year old, or do you think it would result in feeling much worse, like if i was 50 or 60?

3--Are there ways to meet with TRT doctors just to ask them these questions and if so, how do people usually go about doing it?

What do you call a TRT doctor?

Is that what an endocrinologist does?

And do you think insurance usually pays for that kind of thing?

Nothing could help me make this decision better than having a GOOD doctor to talk to.

Even if i never do it i'd still like to talk to a doctor.

And one more question, sorry about so many lol...

4--If I'm doing everything necessary to avoid reinjuring my knees in particular, every single exercise my physical therapist asks, diet is all on point, everything i have to do training wise for martial arts, do you believe that TRT, at a MODERATE level with a doctor, would at least SOMEWHAT decrease my chances of re-tearing one of my ACLs or injuring myself in general?

Cause that is really one of my biggest reasons for being interested, along with more energy and better sleep quality and recovery time, cause i sleep like shit, though some of that is the benzos that i need to cut down on.

Thanks
 
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