Opioids Fluoxetine for Tramadol withdrawl

[Wilson Wilson]

If you take kratom as much as you claim then you would know there is a certain point you don't get high anymore. If you keep upping your dose, nausea and vomiting will happen.

Don't try to make it seem like I'm not concerned about harm reduction. I have pointed out kratom gives opiate-like withdrawal. As far as I know, people haven't OD'd and died from kratom, but they do from real opiates. Suggesting codeine over kratom is ridiculous. Plus, codeine is easier to take which makes it easier to abuse by just popping a few pills.

People have OD'd from kratom although it is very rare. Most kratom OD's are from polysubstance abuse, but there are a few documented deaths from kratom alone. Again though it is rare.

The same is true of codeine. As a rule it's highly unlikely to cause a fatal OD, but it happens rarely.

As for being "easier to take" you know kratom capsules exist right?

It just seems to me that your basis for claiming kratom is safer is based purely on your personal preference for one over the other. Obviously if you prefer kratom then more power to you, but to claim it is somehow safer without being able to back that claim up with evidence on an HR forum is where I have the issue.

Personally I am sceptical simply because of how little we know about kratom's mechanism of action. It's impossible to make definitive statements about safety when you don't fully understand how a substance works. Kratom also carries a risk of liver failure in some individuals. Yes this is rare too, but it does happen.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

For a person coming off of an opiate, suggesting another real opiate is not a good idea. I know kratom capsules exist obviously, but you'd still have to take many capsules in order to get relief. It's not as easy as codeine where it takes only one or two pills. People who love kratom know that it's not as dangerous as real opiates and that's why they appreciate it.
More semantics please...

 

[Wilson Wilson]

For a person coming off of an opiate, suggesting another real opiate is not a good idea. I know kratom capsules exist obviously, but you'd still have to take many capsules in order to get relief. It's not as easy as codeine where it takes only one or two pills. People who love kratom know that it's not as dangerous as real opiates and that's why they appreciate it.
More semantics please...

None of that is providing evidence of kratom's safety.

Kratom is certainly less addictive than oxy or heroin sure but codeine is... well, just fucking codeine. One or two pills of codeine will do nothing to someone with an opiate tolerance. When I get codeine 30mg tablets I will eat at least 10 to feel something from 'em. OP here is coming off a tramadol habit of 1500mg, I doubt there will be some big euphoria from codeine that makes so much more risky than kratom.

And you completely ignored my point about kratom's pharmacology being largely unknown, since no experiments or clinical trials have ever been done on humans, and the fact it causes liver problems in some people and we have no idea why and therefore no idea how to predict who will be at risk.

Meanwhile we have extensive research on codeine, we have a good idea of its pharmacology, and we know exactly what the risks are.

So to just point blank claim "kratom is less dangerous than codeine because codeine is a real opiate" is just a belief not founded in any factual evidence. You seem to hold this belief based purely on your own drug preferences.

There's nothing wrong with using codeine to taper from another opiate. I used codeine to get off oxy no problem. I didn't get high from the codeine because - guess what - I had oxy tolerance! So it was no trouble to taper on codeine at all.

 

[thefirm]

yeah did the same thing "succesfully" another time just I relapsed in a few weeks after that, codeine taper 6 days, then loperamide taper 4 days but low doses of maybe max 18mg to 6mg and bam CT, with some benzos when I was on the loperamide but nothing fancy, some clonazepam and I rode it out, sometimes I used to do MDMA although I HATE MDMA, but very low doses, to make up for the lack of serotonin, I did all kinds of experiments, the worst was coming off oxy and tramadol togheter, I managed to taper the oxy and just remain on the tram then after some time I CT'ed the tram, couldn't do the two at once, same with tram + morphine, there was always tramadol for me as an antidepressant ( I realised it over time, that it was the main purpose of me taking it) and plus another opioid for the euphoria since tramadol doesn't have such an impact on the respiratory system.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

None of that is providing evidence of kratom's safety.

Kratom is certainly less addictive than oxy or heroin sure but codeine is... well, just fucking codeine. One or two pills of codeine will do nothing to someone with an opiate tolerance. When I get codeine 30mg tablets I will eat at least 10 to feel something from 'em. OP here is coming off a tramadol habit of 1500mg, I doubt there will be some big euphoria from codeine that makes so much more risky than kratom.

And you completely ignored my point about kratom's pharmacology being largely unknown, since no experiments or clinical trials have ever been done on humans, and the fact it causes liver problems in some people and we have no idea why and therefore no idea how to predict who will be at risk.

Meanwhile we have extensive research on codeine, we have a good idea of its pharmacology, and we know exactly what the risks are.

So to just point blank claim "kratom is less dangerous than codeine because codeine is a real opiate" is just a belief not founded in any factual evidence. You seem to hold this belief based purely on your own drug preferences.

There's nothing wrong with using codeine to taper from another opiate. I used codeine to get off oxy no problem. I didn't get high from the codeine because - guess what - I had oxy tolerance! So it was no trouble to taper on codeine at all.

Glad you tapered with codeine, but don't act like it is as safe as a baby aspirin. It's still an opiate and you can only get it with prescriptions in the states.

I've been taking kratom for a decade or so and it's been just fine. Codeine is related to plenty of deaths and many more problems than kratom. OP could use either one, but I was suggesting something simple OP could get. I don't know if OP is in the states, but like I said you can only get codeine with a prescription here because it's a highly addictive opiate.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Tianeptine is an atypical antidepressant which is used for pain especially with fibromyalgia and nerve pain. It tends to be ℞, OTC and is not controlled anywhere that I know of, except the US state of Michigan, where the anti-Kratom people decided to go after what was a foreign pharmaceutical or research chemical.

Where in clinical use, it used for depression, anxiety, ADHD and other things. It is used as a primary analgesic for fibromyalgia, and nerve pain, along with asthma, irritable bowel syndrome, allergies, convulsions, and other conditions are labelled or frequent uses of tianeptine

Tianeptine is used with or parallel with orphenadrine, nefopam, tramadol, cyclobenzaprine and can be potentiated with hydroxyzine, tripelennamine, diphenhydramine and other first-generation antihistamines. As one might expect, tianeptine helps naproxen and other Nsaids, paracetamol, aspirin, codeine, dihydrocodeine, tramadol, meptazinol, dextropropoxyphene, and other drugs, including with DXM, which also helps a lot with the aforementioned.

If I were in that situation, I would try poppy seed tea first then tianptine + hydroxyzine + orphenadrine, tripelennamine + naproxen plus nitrazepam or tetrazepam and aggressive use of loperamide, difenoxin, or diphenoxylate taken with the hydroxzine.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

Tianeptine is an atypical antidepressant which is used for pain especially with fibromyalgia and nerve pain. It tends to be ℞, OTC and is not controlled anywhere that I know of, except the US state of Michigan, where the anti-Kratom people decided to go after what was a foreign pharmaceutical or research chemical.

Fibromyalgia, and nerve pain, along with asthma, irritable bowel syndrome, allergies, convulsions, and other conditions are labelled or frequent uses of tianeptine

Tianeptine is used with or parallel with orphenadrine, nefopam, tramadol, cyclobenzaprine and can be potentiated with hydroxyzine, tripelennamine, diphenhydramine and other first-generation antihistamines. As one might expect, tianeptine helps naproxen and other Nsaids, paracetamol, aspirin, codeine, dihydrocodeine, tramadol, meptazinol, dextropropoxyphene, and other drugs, including with DXM, which also helps a lot with the aforementioned.

Doesn't tianeptine have horrible withdrawal? When I was looking up the drug in the past, I saw horror stories about withdrawal, people were suffering. Made me glad I never tried it.

 

[Zonxx]

Please report the post or PM in which he does this to the mods (using the report button on the post) and it will be dealt with swiftly.

i'll stick to broadly posting that it's violating the rules and asking when i'll be handing out cookies for achieving mod status for bdd/od

 

[Zonxx]

If you take kratom as much as you claim then you would know there is a certain point you don't get high anymore. If you keep upping your dose, nausea and vomiting will happen.

Don't try to make it seem like I'm not concerned about harm reduction. I have pointed out kratom gives opiate-like withdrawal. As far as I know, people haven't OD'd and died from kratom, but they do from real opiates. Suggesting codeine over kratom is ridiculous. Plus, codeine is easier to take which makes it easier to abuse by just popping a few pills.

i like wilson, because he can come off exactly like i do, confrontational without intending to be in the slightest, he means well idk as far as i've witnessed, kratom wd, is about like stage 1 and 2 of opiate wd, so i mean depends on use, but going from 500mg/day to kratom, i mean i'll take a bath but plot twist, not with a rubber ducky, but a plugged in toaster, maybe microwave

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

i like wilson, because he can come off exactly like i do, confrontational without intending to be in the slightest, he means well idk as far as i've witnessed, kratom wd, is about like stage 1 and 2 of opiate wd, so i mean depends on use, but going from 500mg/day to kratom, i mean i'll take a bath but plot twist, not with a rubber ducky, but a plugged in toaster, maybe microwave

Haha! Whatever OP chooses to taper with, it should only be taken for a short amount of time to avoid acute withdrawal from tramadol. If the taper drug is taken for too many days, that's the only way withdrawal would occur anyway.

Just to be clear, I hold no ill feelings towards @Wilson Wilson. I'm sorry for being aggravated earlier. At first I thought you were trying to push my buttons. haha You were only trying to help as well.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Doesn't tianeptine have horrible withdrawal? When I was looking up the drug in the past, I saw horror stories about withdrawal, people were suffering. Made me glad I never tried it.

It is on par with both first and second-generation anti-depressants in those respects, so when I have taken tianeptine it has been experimentally or for acute pain, such as a severe sunburn or three or four days in a row at most. If it is going to be longer than about 5-7 days or so, it might be a good idea to (1) use it in rotation with other centrally-acting analgesics and/or (2) use it in single instances for breakthrough pain with other centrally acting analgesics like codeine, dihydrocodeine, nicocodeine, tramadol, dionine, dextropropoxyphene, meptazinol,

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Doesn't tianeptine have horrible withdrawal? When I was looking up the drug in the past, I saw horror stories about withdrawal, people were suffering. Made me glad I never tried it.

It is on par with both first and second-generation anti-depressants in those respects, so when I have taken tianeptine it has been experimentally or for acute pain, such as a severe sunburn or three or four days in a row at most. If it is going to be longer than about 5-7 days or so, it might be a good idea to (1) use it in rotation with other centrally-acting analgesics and/or (2) use it in single instances for breakthrough pain with other centrally acting analgesics like codeine, dihydrocodeine, nicocodeine, tramadol, dionine, dextropropoxyphene, meptazinol,

Much the same as both the first and second-generation anti-depressants, which is why I have only taken it for time-limited problems . . . what you mention is the kind of things which should be asked of doctors and manufacturers . . . yes, there is a withdrawal syndrome for anti-depressants and it is not trivial . . . on the other hand, do people get the whole king hell DT syndrome for classical narcotics like opium and its derivatives? Generally no, and nothing really close to it with the exception of some exotic benzomorphans and morphinans . . . as I have pointed out in the past, narcotics like morphine were used for anxiety and depression into the late 1950s when the tricyclic anti-depressants were introduced. How much of an improvement this was is a matter for debate . . . One thing in their favour is the addition to the above mentioned drugs to the pharmacopoeia has introduced antihistamines, anticholinergics, gastro-intestinal medications, skeletal muscle relaxants, and many other categories of drugs were seen in a new light . . . on the other hand, anti-depressants is still the group of drugs with the most hairy withdrawal

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

It is on par with both first and second-generation anti-depressants in those respects, so when I have taken tianeptine it has been experimentally or for acute pain, such as a severe sunburn or three or four days in a row at most. If it is going to be longer than about 5-7 days or so, it might be a good idea to (1) use it in rotation with other centrally-acting analgesics and/or (2) use it in single instances for breakthrough pain with other centrally acting analgesics like codeine, dihydrocodeine, nicocodeine, tramadol, dionine, dextropropoxyphene, meptazinol,

Much the same as both the first and second-generation anti-depressants, which is why I have only taken it for time-limited problems . . . what you mention is the kind of things which should be asked of doctors and manufacturers . . . yes, there is a withdrawal syndrome for anti-depressants and it is not trivial . . . on the other hand, do people get the whole king hell DT syndrome for classical narcotics like opium and its derivatives? Generally no, and nothing really close to it with the exception of some exotic benzomorphans and morphinans . . . as I have pointed out in the past, narcotics like morphine were used for anxiety and depression into the late 1950s when the tricyclic anti-depressants were introduced. How much of an improvement this was is a matter for debate . . . One thing in their favour is the addition to the above mentioned drugs to the pharmacopoeia has introduced antihistamines, anticholinergics, gastro-intestinal medications, skeletal muscle relaxants, and many other categories of drugs were seen in a new light . . . on the other hand, anti-depressants is still the group of drugs with the most hairy withdrawal

Ah I see, it's the same as antidepressant withdrawal. That's pretty hardcore. More than likely, I would've ended up addicted if it felt too good. I didn't need to get started...

I'm glad you seem to be able to control it!

 

[negrogesic]

First, for the record, if some asked me, 30mg of codeine would be equivalent to 5mg of morphine and would expect this to be the figure used clinically (in fact i believe it is, at about 1/6th the equianalgesic dose). This comes about since codeine is not merely a produg but actually active in its own right with MOR affinity under 100nM).

Ive experienced tianeptine withdrawal plenty of times. It is rough but pretty short lived since tianeptine itself is short acting. Definitely has some withdrawal symptoms that seems serotonergic (i get a weird tingling in my left thumb that is unique to tianeptine withdrawal). Btw, codeine, before it is converted to morphine has more than thrice the affinity of tianeptine for the MOR. (The MOR of course is the mu opioid receptor.) Tianeptine withdrawal is more depressing than traditional opioids.

The day after abusing heavy doses of tianeptine have a strong antidepressant shimmer to it that is unique to tianeptine. If you are strongly dependent on tianeptine however, withdrawal symptoms can materialize as soon as 4 hours after dosing.

 

[negrogesic]

To be frank, i am suprised how few questions i see regarding tianeptine, considering it is relatively cheap, mostly legal and tremendously addictive.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

First, for the record, if some asked me, 30mg of codeine would be equivalent to 5mg of morphine and would expect this to be the figure used clinically (in fact i believe it is, at about 1/6th the equianalgesic dose). This comes about since codeine is not merely a produg but actually active in its own right with MOR affinity under 100nM).

Ive experienced tianeptine withdrawal plenty of times. It is rough but pretty short lived since tianeptine itself is short acting. Definitely has some withdrawal symptoms that seems serotonergic (i get a weird tingling in my left thumb that is unique to tianeptine withdrawal). Btw, codeine, before it is converted to morphine has more than thrice the affinity of tianeptine for the MOR. (The MOR of course is the mu opioid receptor.) Tianeptine withdrawal is more depressing than traditional opioids.

The day after abusing heavy doses of tianeptine have a strong antidepressant shimmer to it that is unique to tianeptine. If you are strongly dependent on tianeptine however, withdrawal symptoms can materialize as soon as 4 hours after dosing.

You're right, codeine turns to morphine in the liver. That definitely means it's something I would not recommend to OP. Btw this article mentions it being sold as OTC, but it's based in the UK. In the U.S, a script is needed.

"Codeine is classed as a "prodrug", meaning that it does not directly affect the body but is broken down by the liver to produce morphine, the opiod drug that is the effective painkiller. This is also highly addictive when taken repeatedly."

Painkiller that changes form once it's inside the body

The name "codeine" comes from the Greek word kodeia, meaning "poppy head". It has been traditionally prepared from the opium poppy for many centuries and it was first isolated as a discrete chemical compound in 1832 by the French chemist and pharmacist Pierre Robiquet.

www.independent.co.uk

Tianeptine is a pretty strong antidepressant type drug with antidepressant type withdrawal. I still think kratom is better for a short taper, but hey, whatever OP chooses is up to him.

 

[negrogesic]

Yes I would never recommend tianeptine to taper off of anything, it is tremendously addictive. I was merely talking about tianeptine since people didn't seem to have experience with it in this thread, definitely not recommend it.

Kratom is infinitely better for getting off opioids. Tianeptine is great for getting ON opioids.

 

[Zonxx]

Haha! Whatever OP chooses to taper with, it should only be taken for a short amount of time to avoid acute withdrawal from tramadol. If it's taken too long, that's the only way withdrawal would occur anyway.

i'm going to let you know it depends on the person GREATLY. i get habituated physically if i use anything for more than a week, especially stims

To be frank, i am suprised how few questions i see regarding tianeptine, considering it is relatively cheap, mostly legal and tremendously addictive.

pst. maybe no t mmention it then right?

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

i'm going to let you know it depends on the person GREATLY. i get habituated physically if i use anything for more than a week, especially stims

I've found that more than a week is even too long on a drug that's being used to taper. That's been the case with me anyway. I only needed it for a couple of days to dodge acute withdrawal and that's it.

 

[Zonxx]

I've found that more than a week is even too long on a drug that's being used to taper. That's been the case with me anyway. I only needed it for a couple of days to dodge acute withdrawal and that's it.

CORRECT, Is everybody listening? a couple of days, id say 4 5 tops, when i go into severe stim wd from smoking coke everyday for a week or two, amps are only absolutely neccesary for 2 days, the 3rd i can lower the dose 10x (this is different due t not being opiates but follows the ame guide-