Heroin First time heroin user, want to be safe as possible. looking for guidance

[Jabberwocky]

Maybe the people I knew had some weird body make up that experienced bypassing first pass metabolism and full on effects within seconds very enjoyable and reinforcing. Although I do not get/understand such a difference between IV and smoking to be honest. Maybe is the matter of how much in short span of time...? I don't know. But transition to IV route was always followed by pretty rapid decline of the people I knew. I don't want to derail a thread so I will not argue (I don't even have first hand experience). I don't believe that "don't IV" is a bad harm reduction advice in general.

 

[strangemagic]

Sorry for not replying to this sooner. 10-15mg of oxy isn't an especially large habit. You should probably start in the milligram range with heroin, like maybe 10mg and see how it affects you. I've used oxy but I haven't used it to an especially large degree, and I've used it times when I've had differing tolerances to heroin. I would guess that you could indeed handle more than 10mg assuming there's no fentanyl in it and it were just heroin. But since fentanyl is a risk, and you have no prior heroin experience. I'd start as small as possible. You can always take more if it's not enough.

Generally white is best for IV use, because it is the most readily turned into a solution without heat or messing with the pH using something like citric or ascorbic acid.

Essentially pure heroin can come as either base heroin or heroin hydrochloride. China white (when that term doesn't refer to fentanyl) is hydrochloride. Which means it's water soluble.
When I've seen afghan brown heroin its always been base, meaning it won't readily dissolve in water without an acid. I didn't mention this before because you're not injecting and I suspect just swallowing it might make the most sense for you.

With snorting you want the heroin to dissolve into your blood so yes hydrochloride heroin is probably a lot better for this. I've pretty much always been an IV heroin user so my experience with other routes is just what I've seen as an observer, not first hand experience.
Base heroin is more readily smoked. So yes the white for snorting brown for smoking generalizations are probably correct, but generally I believe all these heroins can be used in ways they're not ideal for, like how base heroin can still be dissolved by adding an acid.

Tar is the worst because it's the most crude, a lot of what's in it isn't even the actual underlying 6,3 diacetylmorphine compound widely known as heroin, But also intermediate compounds from when the cartels synthesize it from raw morphine and codeine. It's also arguably the worst to be injecting. As I said though all 3 can be recreationally good or bad.

Heroin can indeed change people who've otherwise been keeping things very much under control. So it's worth keeping a very close eye on it. Having someone you can be 100% honest to who can warn you if your suddenly doing things you previously committed not to would probably be helpful.



The big problem is that taking any opioid long term can become less effective at treating physical pain.
The body adapts, hyperalgesia can develop. Sometimes opioids have to be reduced before they can be reintroduced to ultimately improve pain relief (fair disclaimer, I've never been in chronic pain, this isn't first hand experience, it's my understanding from what I've read).

While methadone is probably safer, the people cautioning you on how difficult it is to get off aren't wrong. Its long half life can make it harder to get off than heroin.

No worries about the late reply, yall freaked me out so much at first that I've put it off so I had more time to think about it and talk to my partner. As of right now I have not tried it yet, but that extra time gave me the ability to stock up on fent test strips, narcan, practice snorting (oxy) etc. Even though I'm talking about doing heroin I'm quite a big baby when it comes to drugs. The only drug I've done recreationally has been smoking weed. It's not because I'm not interested in other things, it's just that I'm super paranoid about having a bad time and/or dying lol. I 100% agree with yall that IV is not the way to go and I have absolutely no interest in it as I'm looking more for pain maintenance and less for a rush. Me and my spouse agreed if I ever started considering IV then that was a sign it's going too far.

My oxy tolerance fluxuates between 10-20mg at a time depending on availability, I try not to go over 20mg and taper down when I start to. I'm going to start snorting at like 2mg H just because I'm being very cautious yall. I appreciate everyone's advice, I know yall are just trying to look out by saying don't do it at all. I think if I was going about it all alone and didn't have another person to give me an outside opinion that it could be a very slippery slope. But I at least want to try and see if I have the same self discipline I have with oxy and if I don't then I will try methadone. I have been weary of methadone for the reasons yall said, the bad/long withdrawals and that it doesn't touch pain like opiates do. Those of you who have found ways to get through the day by taking the edge off with kratom/weed/methadone I commend you - I'm not that strong and I honestly don't want to be. I'm in my early 30s, my whole life has been changed by chronic pain. If I can live as close to pain free as possible while still maintaining a semi-normal life then I'm going to try every possible option before resigning myself to a life of pain. And maybe in the end I'll realize it's not sustainable and get on methadone or kill myself etc, but at least I have these moments of my life back in between. Withdrawing from oxy fucking sucks, being broke from it fucking sucks, but being able to take a trip to the beach with my partner or walk around the mall or just fucking do my dishes is worth it to me. I don't regret it for a second, even when I'm sweating it out crying trying to make a 10mg norco last through the day because my plug didn't come through. If getting off opiates meant I could live a life free of pain I would do it in a heartbeat, I'd even go cold turkey right this second. I just realized I'm going on a cathartic rant and not really saying anything relevant to the conversation, I apologize.

Thank you again for all of your knowledge and advice, even though it scared the shit out of me at first it did make me slow down and make a safer plan. I did have a couple more questions about terms I've read online. What does long legs mean? I've seen a lot of people talk about H having long/medium legs. Also, what is a "point" of heroin? Is that an IV reference?

On another note, it doesn't really matter but for the purpose of making friends on here I am a female. I tried to be as vague as possible in my post because I get paranoid.

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

The percentage of folks that can use opioids, H, etc. Recreationally is small..
I wish you well, but its Russian Roulette..

The deck is stacked against you.
Especially if you have any addictive and/or past mental issues, depression etc..
Once the chase is on, its fkn hell..
Best of luck to you..

There's so many stories on this site that describe what I just mentioned...

 

[December Flower]

It's so sad. Somebody should be able to go to a doctor and be like "my pain is so bad I'm considering suicide or heroin, please help me" and then get proper help (the actual meds they need at the doses they need, not a fucking lecture, not being labeled a drug seeker, not a fucking suggestion to go to rehab or a psych ward)

the world we live in today is so fucked up in some ways.

I'm not entirely sure this is true. I agree that it is in the States.
I totally understand why so many people in the States buy street heroin,
because Doctors will label you as a drug seeker so fast. It's ridiculous, what are your doctors for even?
The health system is a joke, sadly, and the people are suffering for this
All the presidents do is scratch their fatcat arses

When my chronic sinew pain started 4 or so years ago my doc was bombarding me with questions
"Do you want codeine, kratom, valium, ..?" listing a shitload of things he could prescribe me.
Now my grandmother died an opioid & poly prescription drug-addict at 50 or so, on my fucking birthday, so I declined, but here it's absolutely no issue acquiring pain meds of any kind. I just asked him if he could get me weed for that :D
Turns out that's a no-go

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've seen a lot of people talk about H having long/medium legs.

"Legs" are term used for the duration of action. Methadone and buprenorphine have long duration (long legs) , while fentanyl and hydromorphone do not.

"Point" , I am truly not sure as only association I get is "0.1" (a bag with 100 mg), but I believe you could be closer to the truth with "amount for IV use". I believe that people who know better than me will chip in soon with the explanation.

 

[strangemagic]

I'm not entirely sure this is true. I agree that it is in the States.
I totally understand why so many people in the States buy street heroin,
because Doctors will label you as a drug seeker so fast. It's ridiculous, what are your doctors for even?
The health system is a joke, sadly, and the people are suffering for this
All the presidents do is scratch their fatcat arses

When my chronic sinew pain started 4 or so years ago my doc was bombarding me with questions
"Do you want codeine, kratom, valium, ..?" listing a shitload of things he could prescribe me.
Now my grandmother died an opioid & poly prescription drug-addict at 50 or so, on my fucking birthday, so I declined, but here it's absolutely no issue acquiring pain meds of any kind. I just asked him if he could get me weed for that :D
Turns out that's a no-go

I am in the States yes. Years ago when my pain first started I had a great doctor that was willing to prescribe me 20 percs a month for my bad days, and back then thats all it was, about a 3rd of my life was bad days. Now of course when it's all bad days there's not a doctor around willing to help.

When I was a kid my mom could doctor shop her way into being in a constant state of nodding. It made me so terrified of pills I wouldn't even take a tylenol. When I started having chronic pain I realized there was a big difference between us. She wanted to get high, I just wanted to be able to function. It often feels like I don't fit into either world, a lot of the advice I've gotten from here and other drug forums is about "chasing a high" etc because it's coming from people who aren't treating chronic pain (though it sounds like they're treating emotional pain). And in chronic pain forums everyone villianizes drug users/people who treat their pain without a script as if they aren't also physically addicted to their pain medication. I personally think people should be able to do whatever they want if they aren't hurting anyone else. In an ideal world I could just get enough pain medication to function happily through a doctor so I know it's safe and controlled. I hope you've found a way to treat your pain in a way that's comfortable and works for you.

 

[December Flower]

I am in the States yes. Years ago when my pain first started I had a great doctor that was willing to prescribe me 20 percs a month for my bad days, and back then thats all it was, about a 3rd of my life was bad days. Now of course when it's all bad days there's not a doctor around willing to help.

When I was a kid my mom could doctor shop her way into being in a constant state of nodding. It made me so terrified of pills I wouldn't even take a tylenol. When I started having chronic pain I realized there was a big difference between us. She wanted to get high, I just wanted to be able to function. It often feels like I don't fit into either world, a lot of the advice I've gotten from here and other drug forums is about "chasing a high" etc because it's coming from people who aren't treating chronic pain (though it sounds like they're treating emotional pain). And in chronic pain forums everyone villianizes drug users/people who treat their pain without a script as if they aren't also physically addicted to their pain medication. I personally think people should be able to do whatever they want if they aren't hurting anyone else. In an ideal world I could just get enough pain medication to function happily through a doctor so I know it's safe and controlled. I hope you've found a way to treat your pain in a way that's comfortable and works for you.

I feel you. You just want to live a normal life without the pain.
I really hope you get a doctor that roots for you and gives you what you need to function properly. It sucks that so much depends on the doctor's personality, and most are just scared to breed addicts, so they give you nada.

How is that pain management?

Have you thought about defecting to Canada?
I mean I know you guys are not on the best terms culturally, but Canada seems affordable, better pay, better Health Care, actual pain management, adorable cops, hockey as a national sport, mooses(meese?)

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

I'm coming off 10 years of pain meds from VA..
Norco and Tramadol

Spinal stuff up and down, Epidurals,
knees bone to bone etc..

Been on that fkn merry go round for 10 years..

The psychological component of pain is so different from many people..
There is an approach to interpret pain differently ..
Trying to learn a bit...but the stinking thinking is so powerful.....

Live this 24 hours..
Best of luck

 

[Melman203]

Everybody dies eventually. And OD can be fatal or non fatal. But, as I wrote:

...it is my experience that people I knew and progressed to IV use (mostly heroin, but cocaine also) died before reaching age of 40. That rush from IV use seems to be so intense and pleasurable that it seems, looking from outside (never used intravenously), the drug that is taken that route almost becomes another, much more addictive drug. It makes sense cause transition from normal to full on high as kite happens in a matter of seconds. Many of my friends when they were on methadone maintenence kept intravenously taking sodium chloride (for infusion) just to satisfy craving for needles. I can understand as I have craving for insufflation of some white powder, but never to an extent that I would actually rail some inert substance. To me IV seems a different ballgame altogether and I never did it because I was sure I would spiral into death pretty soon. Been dependent on opioids for 6 years, 3 on replacement therapy, so I know a bit how morphine/oxycodone/methadone make you feel. Never did heroin though. But comparing my cocaine experience via nasal route to a friend who just took it intravenously I can see a big difference. Maybe I am just very biased and had experiences with people who just couldn't handle IV route. Who knows? I will still give the same advice based on my personal experience and observation of other people. Opioids are most dangerous drugs to OD and die from, no matter the route, but IV takes dangers to another level.

You are totally right every person i met who switched from sniffing it to shooting life turn upside down, shooting it is worst its straight into your bloodstream the high is shorter you do more of it and the withdrawals are worst, and they have track marks all over, the people who sniff heroin look completely different from people who shoot it i know because I’ve been sniffing H for 5 years and will never shoot it and you can never tell yes it has caused issues in the beginning i got on methadone which was another bad decision because its legal heroin and is actually worst but i got off of that and now i sniff H snd i live a normal life i work i take care of myself i travel and I’m in a loving relationship check out this Ivy League professor name Dr Carl Hart he sniffs H too and he’s changing the perception society has about H and the people who do it

 

[strangemagic]

I feel you. You just want to live a normal life without the pain.
I really hope you get a doctor that roots for you and gives you what you need to function properly. It sucks that so much depends on the doctor's personality, and most are just scared to breed addicts, so they give you nada.

How is that pain management?

Have you thought about defecting to Canada?
I mean I know you guys are not on the best terms culturally, but Canada seems affordable, better pay, better Health Care, actual pain management, adorable cops, hockey as a national sport, mooses(meese?)

I have considered relocating to Canada, but there are a lot of stipulations for Americans and unfortunately if you can't work because of a disability theres a very slim chance of getting accepted. All I can do is hold on to the pipe dream that narcotics will be decriminalized in the future.

 

[strangemagic]

I'm coming off 10 years of pain meds from VA..
Norco and Tramadol

Spinal stuff up and down, Epidurals,
knees bone to bone etc..

Been on that fkn merry go round for 10 years..

The psychological component of pain is so different from many people..
There is an approach to interpret pain differently ..
Trying to learn a bit...but the stinking thinking is so powerful.....

Live this 24 hours..
Best of luck

It sounds like we're in a similar boat medically. My whole spine is fucked. Injections seems to make the pain worse, I finally had to tell them no more. My doctor told me we'd talk about doing a pain medication contract after we tried the injections but when the injections failed he backed out. It's a very hopeless feeling. There used to be a time I could live my life and be mildly inconvienced by the pain, but after years of the unrelenting misery it becomes all you can think about. I'm assuming you're coming off the meds because the doctors are cracking down. If that's the case I'm sorry to hear you're being cut off, there are thousands of chronic pain patients who have gone through the same thing in the last few years. You're right about the psychological component, a select few can power through, but I think a lot of doctors use them as an example to try and convince us the pain is all in our head. Chronic pain is legitimate, what's happening to us is wrong and you're not alone.

 

[Dundermifflin8699]

It sounds like we're in a similar boat medically. My whole spine is fucked. Injections seems to make the pain worse, I finally had to tell them no more. My doctor told me we'd talk about doing a pain medication contract after we tried the injections but when the injections failed he backed out. It's a very hopeless feeling. There used to be a time I could live my life and be mildly inconvienced by the pain, but after years of the unrelenting misery it becomes all you can think about. I'm assuming you're coming off the meds because the doctors are cracking down. If that's the case I'm sorry to hear you're being cut off, there are thousands of chronic pain patients who have gone through the same thing in the last few years. You're right about the psychological component, a select few can power through, but I think a lot of doctors use them as an example to try and convince us the pain is all in our head. Chronic pain is legitimate, what's happening to us is wrong and you're not alone.

Hello.
Thank you for reply.
I'm not being cut off I'm just trying to get out of the ground hog day loop...
I have hyperalgesia pretty bad, and I look and see what the neighbors are doing ,in the yard and planting flowers and doing stuff...
The chronic pain to unless dealt with in some means, will eventually beat you down into submission...
I live in a three-story house also , my office is in the basement so the stairs are not my friend...

I have a thread on the taper forum...

 

[strangemagic]

I have an update (and also some more questions)

So I have done it, I have to say I was extremely underwhelmed. I started off with a super tiny amount and kept redosing every 30 mins when I wasn't feeling anything. Eventually I felt a little bit of a head high and it took the edge off my pain but I honestly prefer oxy as it seems more effective. I know it's quite likely I didn't do enough at once, and that's also fine because I was being very careful about gauging the right dose and not getting too high. The other difference I noticed was it gave me a bit of a stomach ache, not like I felt like I was going to vomit but just kind of achey like I wasn't sure if I was hungry or not. And that it felt more sedating than oxy, it kind of felt a slight hangover when it wore off, similar to when I'd come down from being stoned (feeling heavy, headache, sore, etc). It tested negative for fent and I heard from multiple long term users that this was some of the best H floating around right now. But yeah, no euphoria or anything. Do yall think this means I just didn't do enough of it? I'm not trying to get a euphoric high I'm mostly asking because it wasn't as effective for my pain as I would like.

The other thing is I'm not a big fan of snorting, I don't like my throat being sore and I'd rather just take something orally because I'm not super into the "ritual" of it all which I know can be enjoyable for a lot of people. When I was practicing snorting oxy it seemed like it took more to get my desired feeling than when I took it orally. Is that true typically? I think I've heard in the past snorting is more wasteful when it comes to oxy. Would this be the case for H as well? I don't hear about people taking H orally very often but would it be effective to put some of it in like gelatin tablets and take it that way? That would be most convenient for me and makes it easier to dose if I'm out running errands or something. TIA for any advice, I really appreciate everyone here yall have been very helpful and supportive.

 

[Prettyboy12]

No worries about the late reply, yall freaked me out so much at first that I've put it off so I had more time to think about it and talk to my partner. As of right now I have not tried it yet, but that extra time gave me the ability to stock up on fent test strips, narcan, practice snorting (oxy) etc. Even though I'm talking about doing heroin I'm quite a big baby when it comes to drugs. The only drug I've done recreationally has been smoking weed. It's not because I'm not interested in other things, it's just that I'm super paranoid about having a bad time and/or dying lol. I 100% agree with yall that IV is not the way to go and I have absolutely no interest in it as I'm looking more for pain maintenance and less for a rush. Me and my spouse agreed if I ever started considering IV then that was a sign it's going too far.

My oxy tolerance fluxuates between 10-20mg at a time depending on availability, I try not to go over 20mg and taper down when I start to. I'm going to start snorting at like 2mg H just because I'm being very cautious yall. I appreciate everyone's advice, I know yall are just trying to look out by saying don't do it at all. I think if I was going about it all alone and didn't have another person to give me an outside opinion that it could be a very slippery slope. But I at least want to try and see if I have the same self discipline I have with oxy and if I don't then I will try methadone. I have been weary of methadone for the reasons yall said, the bad/long withdrawals and that it doesn't touch pain like opiates do. Those of you who have found ways to get through the day by taking the edge off with kratom/weed/methadone I commend you - I'm not that strong and I honestly don't want to be. I'm in my early 30s, my whole life has been changed by chronic pain. If I can live as close to pain free as possible while still maintaining a semi-normal life then I'm going to try every possible option before resigning myself to a life of pain. And maybe in the end I'll realize it's not sustainable and get on methadone or kill myself etc, but at least I have these moments of my life back in between. Withdrawing from oxy fucking sucks, being broke from it fucking sucks, but being able to take a trip to the beach with my partner or walk around the mall or just fucking do my dishes is worth it to me. I don't regret it for a second, even when I'm sweating it out crying trying to make a 10mg norco last through the day because my plug didn't come through. If getting off opiates meant I could live a life free of pain I would do it in a heartbeat, I'd even go cold turkey right this second. I just realized I'm going on a cathartic rant and not really saying anything relevant to the conversation, I apologize.

Thank you again for all of your knowledge and advice, even though it scared the shit out of me at first it did make me slow down and make a safer plan. I did have a couple more questions about terms I've read online. What does long legs mean? I've seen a lot of people talk about H having long/medium legs. Also, what is a "point" of heroin? Is that an IV reference?

On another note, it doesn't really matter but for the purpose of making friends on here I am a female. I tried to be as vague as possible in my post because I get paranoid.

I am going to be very honest with you. I myself started using H for pain control. I started out with snorting and for about 3 weeks that worked but snorting then became ineffective for pain relief.

So I started to give myself heroin shots in my arm. That also stopped working after about 2 weeks so unfortunately I turned to IVing because it was effective 100% of the time for pain relief...so just keep in mind that over time each ROA will become ineffective except for IV method.
I strongly urge you to not even get started doing heroin. It never ends very well.

 

[blackmarket91]

No do not use methadone it’s worst then heroin and it takes longer to kick and the withdrawal could last months really bad advice why stop one opioid to get on another especially methadone its worst for you im glad i got off that dope juice do not get on methadone you’ll regret it

i can only speak for me but yeah i last took methadone dec 27th so almost 5 months ago and still having withdrawal symptoms i feel if you go the methadone route you better hope to be a lifer or have insane resolve