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FAQ for Aus Drug Discussion

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phenix

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 27, 1999
Messages
612
Location
Toronto,Canada
I'm sorry nobody is going to read that whole thing. I think the work you did is amazing but I really can't see a New Member reading that whole thing. Maybe if you just had 10 key points explaining everything? I dunno just a suggestion
 

johnboy

Enlighten
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 1999
Messages
6,873
Location
Melbourne, Australia
which whole thing? this whole thread? or the deep faq?
uh we are talking about a major psychactive chemical and its effects on your brain and body... this is not sesame street
i'm sure plenty of people in this forum have read all of this. our philosophy here is that you should read at least this much before starting to use ecstacy. you have to do more reading when you go for a car licence...
i dont mean to diss you, i'm sure you mean well, but how exactly do you think we should distill all this down to 10 points?
feel free to suggest them, i'd be happy to post them up the top of this, but the idea is to have all the information in one place... not cater to a limited attention span
i wonder how moppy is going with the FAQ? i haven't heard anything in ages. its a bloody big job and he needs lots of help. i agree that maybe a list of the ten most frequently asked questions would make a good snappy list but there would have to be links to more in depth stuff.
[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 13 May 2000).]
 

sime

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 8, 2000
Messages
12
Location
Perth,Western Australia,Australia
In support of johnboy..I read this whole thing (and I've re-read it since)...as well as other stuff on the net..and I point people who are new to MDMA in the direction of this site. Maybe not everyone will read it but the majority of people I meet (while they have a fabulous time on the stuff) are atleast (sometimes uncharactiristicallly) curious about what its doing to there body and why it feels so good (or so bad).
 

Chess Rockwell

Bluelighter
Joined
May 10, 2000
Messages
9
Location
Fitzroy,Victoria,Australia
Great work guys!!!
'Power to the People'
Great to see people doing their homework.DD are 'penny pushers'.
People are getting alot more educated about what they are doing to their bodies.'Word of mouth' is not good enough anymore.We all realise it's a great drug but at the same time we all want to be enjoying it in 5 years time.
'Education is the key'
 

deep

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 23, 1999
Messages
1,106
I don't know why I'm here [insert joke about drug induced cognitive impairments here], but for those that may not know, I've offered up several important modifications to the original post above in Motab's thread in bluelight discussion on the beta FAQ.

moderator's note: here are those revisions...

1] To be accurate, Jase & Skydancer like many of us were bluelighters on the original Bluelight board [http://www.bluelight.net/mdma <- The URL is where the bluelight name came from] put up by Espinoza a few years ago [and has since gone down]. When Espinoza's server has going through a bit of an identity crisis [Am I online or not?], J&S spearheaded the new site.

2] It should be noted that any techniques that serve to increase dopamine levels could potentially worsen neurotoxicity as well. The critical step that allows this neurotoxicity to take place is thought to be the depletion of serotonin [whereupon dopamine radicals enter into serotonin's "cubby-holes" and wreak axonal havoc], so "theoretically" so long as serotonin stores are not depleted one "should" be safe. It is important to keep in mind that research $$$ is not usually devoted towards making the use of banned substances safer for those who partake in them, so much of what is reccomended on the subject is either experimental speculation, extrapolations made from research or observations made on practical usage. But for the most part these are NOT time tested laws based on cold, hard, clinical study. It is important this be mentioned because those not versed in neurochemistry can fall into the trap of thinking that by simply taking this this and this before rolling they will be saved from screwing up their brain. Not so. It could turn out after time and study that the effects are worse than imagined. Just as equally, it could turn out that the effects are better than imagined. The point is that until conclusive facts are known on the subject it is best to err on the side of caution and exercise restraint/responsibility.

3] Nausea is most probably related to the increase in serotonin levels. Serotonin syndrome is the result of excessively high serotonin levels and is partially characterized by nausea. This is NOT to say that if you get sick from rolling you are experiencing serotonin syndrome. Rather, that every person's biochemistry is unique and that biochemistry/neurochemistry is infinitely more complex than just three or four major neurochemicals at work. So, the point being, different people may have different reactions to the same chemicals, the only variable being their individual biochemistry/reaction and not necessarily the chemical itself. Nausea is not necessarily a bad sign, but could underscore that the concentration of MDMA / serotonin / etc. is too high in one's bloodstream [i.e. individual biochemistry/metabolism is more effective] and simply a sign to take less.

Lowered preloading dosages can reduce nausea as well, as the conversion of many of the amino acids are enzyme limited. To draw a metaphor, say 5-HTP is a carton of eggs, and you want to make a huge ommellete [serotonin]. You can buy dozens and dozens of eggs, but if the pan you have can only make four at a time [enzyme] you are going to be limited by that. More 5HTP in does not necessarily mean more serotonin produced.

4] Dosages on preloading will ultimately come down to personal experimentation / individual biochemistry / etc. Revisions:
preload:

5HTP : 100-400mg : modulate up or down depending on how empathic you want your roll to be. Remember that there will be some degree of competition between 5HTP and Tyrosine [if you include it in your preload] and hence if you want one effect over the otehr you may wish to decrease the relative dosage of the other preload ingredients.

L-Tyrosine : 500-3000mg : modulate up or down to increase the body rush / euphoric sensations

DLPA : 500-3000mg : modulate up or down to increase the body rush / euphoric sensation

NOTE: Simply downing bottles at a time of the aforementioned precursors simply for the sake of "ThE FreEkIn BEsT RoLl EvAH!" is not going to happen. The conversion processes are enzyme limited, meaning that you can only convert by how much enzyme you have available in your body to do so. Individual differences in biochemistry mean individual differences in how much can be produced. Usually enzymatic function is governed by temporal intensity - meaning that they can only do a certain amount at one time.

Vitamin C: 1000+, the more the merrier, preferably in a time released formula.

Alpha Lipoic Acid : Considerable clinical evidence suggesting highly neuroprotective effects, as it is an antioxidant I don't see the harm in taking as much as comfortably tolerable and no reason at the present why it should interfere negatively with a roll. So, for now, more is *probably* better, until more practical experience is obtained with this relatively new neuroprotective addition. But it should be warned that common sense should prevail and eating a cereal bowl full of ALA caps and milk is probably not a smart idea.

Magnesium: 500-1500mg as necessary to counteract muscle cramping / jaw clenching. It should be noted that jaw clenching is like nausea in that it is characteristic to serotonin related disorders [i.e. bruxism during sleep]. Therefore magnesium may only partially reduce the jaw clenching observed on MDMA because it works through a non-serotonergic mechanism.

5] Postloading with Fluoxetine [Prozac] 20mg @ 4-6 hours after the most recent dose has been clinically proven to counteract neurotoxicity. There are several other chemicals that have been shown in study to counteract neurotoxicity but they [for the most part] are practically unavailable to the average user. It should be mentioned that the evidence supporting the use of 5HTP is not quite as authoritative as that for Prozac. Thus to err on the side of caution one would be assured the most amount of protection from using Prozac soon after a roll than 5HTP, if having to choose between the two.

Taking prozac with a lot of 5HTP could result in serotonin syndrome. Prozac is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and 5HTP helps produce more serotonin. That being the case, the resulting effect could be that more serotonin is dumped at the synapse and kept there because of the Prozac. This may or may not be beneficial depending on how depleted serotonin stores are in the individual. But again, to err on the side of caution [as one should always do when it comes to these things], it would probably be a good idea to take less than 150mg of 5HTP with prozac after a roll. If necessary, more 5HTP can be taken at a later time throughout the days after.

If prozac is not taken with 5HTP, dosage of 5HTP post roll can be between 100-400mg initially and as required throughout subsequent days to stave off e-pression/neurotoxicity.
The intake of antioxidants such as Vitamin C, Alpha Lipoic Acid, etc. generally follows a more is better rule. Magnesium as aforementioned can be involved to stave off muscle cramps/jaw clench.

GHB *can* be used to effectively restore sleep and help stave off e-pression through a dopaminergic mechanism instead of the serotonergic ones described BUT it should be warned that since it works on dopamine it could *theoretically* exacerbate neurotoxic damage. If Prozac is involved the risk is *probably* low but we must keep in mind that since these techniques are not documented in controlled, clinical study much of it is experimental speculation and subjective [not objective].

6] Because prozac interferes with the mechanism through which MDMA works on a neuronal level *most* people who take the medication regularly to treat deperssion find that MDMA's effects are completely neutralized by the antidepressant. This *generally* extrapolates to other SSRI antidepressants as well.

To avoid having a roll killed, and more importantly to avoid possible serotonin syndrome or other potentially dangerous drug-drug interactions, it is reccomended that if on antidepressant medication one abstain from using the medication early enough before rolling to get it out of their system. Different medications have different rates of metabolism: while fluoxetine [Prozac] and its metabolites can stay in the body for up to two weeks, newer SSRI's can be excreted from the body within hours or days.

Heightening water intake can help excrete metabolites through urine [the more you piss, the better]. If you are on any stimulant medication it would also too be a wise move to abstain from using it long enough before using MDMA to make sure that there is no possible interaction. It should be noted that practically speaking many people take such medications and roll without a problem but I think it best to err on the side of caution and minimize risks everywhere one can.

[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited 26 May 2000).]
[Edit: Fixed formatting that was screwed in the copyover to VB. BT]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

johnboy

Enlighten
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 1999
Messages
6,873
Location
Melbourne, Australia
THIS WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED BY liquidocean
it is also posted here
http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum12/HTML/004880.html
it is a work in progress. please make all suggestion or correction to the thread above. some help with the chemistry terms would be greatly appreciated, but any input is more than welcome.
Feel free to use this in a Bluelight FAQ, this is all written from scratch by me. I will update it with people's responses. This is a constantly-evolving document. Give it a week or two before setting it in stone.

Please close "guide to bluelight ACRONYMS"
Peace --L/O--
edited 1pm fri 5/19/00
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TEN THINGS EVERY PERSON ON THIS BOARD SHOULD KNOW
1. Ecstasy is the street name for the drug http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal109.shtml. Typical MDMA content of a good pill is 80-120 mgs. About 60-80% of drugs sold as ecstasy actually contain MDMA. Know your source.
2. If you are on SSRI anti-depressants, do not expect MDMA to work for you.
3. Not everyone on this board is a raver or has been to a rave, nor are they American. There have been a lot of people on this board who are do not fit the archetype of the typical 'raver'. Please don't alienate them, they have rich lives and experiences too. There are some kick-ass beautiful people on this board. Make friends with them and go visit their city to see how they party!
4. Buy a tester and test your pills! The $20 is a ridiculously small price to pay for your health, safety, and enjoyment, not to mention the safety of others.
5. This is a discussion site. Go to a reference site with all your questions and find the answers before asking the community. Do some research, the answers are out there. You don't go to a library and get all your information from people. You get them from the books. The things you cannot find, you turn to people for. Try to give more than you take.
6. You will not get busted just because you post on this site that you have taken drugs. If you want to get busted using this site, then conspire to sell, transfer, manufacture, or posess a large amount of a controlled substance, then give away obvious clues to your location, destination, and appearance.
7. If you just want to dilly dally use Bluelight Chat, don't start dilly dally threads.
8. Invariably, the good, loving vibes on BL get disturbed by psychotic individuals or dramatic situations
outside of anyone's control. Ride it out, keep it chill, mellow, and positive. Don't rock the boat.
9. The threshold dosage of MDMA is around 50-80 mgs., and the amount to achieve the 'desired effect' is around 80-200 mgs. Any more than this is additionally hazardous and should be avoided if at all possible. Your brain has a natural built-in tolerance. Once you flood your brain with stored serotonin, you must regenerate your supplies before you will feel the 'warm, loving' feelings of MDMA. Pick the time and settings carefully. Any more will exacerbate the 'speedy, edgy' side effects of the amphetamine and will damage the synaptic junctions further. MDMA follows the Law of Diminishing Returns, take a long break and get as much out of the experience as you can before you do it again.
10. Pure MDMA use can be very neurotoxic. What is sold as 'ecstasy' can be anything. A healthy, balanced attitude of moderation is necessary if you wish to maximize your experience and to prevent long-term neurological damage. It can also be extremely habit-forming and consuming. Be wise. Misuse may leave you in a state of clinical depression, without friends, in debt, and in prison. Use carefully at your own risk. Poly-drug use is also very dangerous. Before tyring a drug for synergy, try it on its own in a controlled environment. You are responsible for your own life. Your survival is a conscious decision. Your mileage may vary. If it becomes a negative, self-destructive pattern, discontinue use and seek help. It is not worth dying for. I love you and care for you.
TOP MYTHS OF MDMA
1. Ecstasy contains heroin or cocaine.
It is not cost-effective to use heroin or cocaine in ecstasy. It is most likely an entirely different chemical, or an impure reaction in the synth, or your particular body chemistry that is making you feel 'speedy' or 'smacky'.
2. Ecstasy use drains your spinal fluid.
A science journal published an experiment where the spinal fluid of subjects was taken for experimental study. The lower levels of spinal fluid were from the extraction, not the MDMA use.
3. MDMA is exclusively a 'rave' drug or a club drug.
MDMA had a history of use by psychotherapists before it became scheduled in 1985. It's scheduling was fought by a consortium of therapists, psychologists, and consciousness seekers. After it became illegal (and subsequent research), it was driven underground, where it got picked up by the NY gay underground, Ibizan travellers, and the London elite. Today it is still used by a multitude of users, but it is gaining media notoriety due to its dominant role as the dance music drug of choice.
4. Ecstasy is easy to make, i can whip up a batch, make a ton of money and friends, and party my ass off.
MDMA is a Schedule 1 substance, mere possesion of which is a felony. The precursors and glassware involved are watched or controlled by the DEA. The drug is manufactured by local clandestine chemists, but most likely by large-scale foreign operations, then smuggled to your locality of choice. The drug is a cash crop for cash poor countries. This drug is in its zenith of usage, and has been the focus of a recent media blitz and police spree. Especially with the waves of ecstasy pills that are coming from Latin America, Europe, and East Asia, there is a lot of competition, and your couple grams of home brew is nothing compared to the suitcases of stuff that arrive in airports daily. You should not attempt this unless you have 2 solid college years of chemistry, have a very good background on the basics of organic chemistry and laboratory technique, and you think you've got what it takes to obtain illegal precursors, obtain watched precursors under a false pretense, operate a clandestine lab, pull off your reactions without messing up, getting caught, or blowing yourself up, then to clean it up, package your product, and sell it off without attracting attention. Good luck.
5. Ecstasy is a 'mixture' of chemicals.
Street ecstasy can be a mixture of anything. If you don't know your source, you may not know what you are getting. Real ecstasy, however, contains 1 chemical compound - 3, 4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine, 120 milligrams of it.
OVERVIEW OF KITCHEN MDMA SYNTHESIS
1. Distillation: of Natural Oil (sassafras oil, yellow camphor oil) to obtain pure Safrole
2. Rxn: Formaldehyde + Ammonium Chloride -> MethylAmine.HCl
3. Rxn: Safrole -(Wacker Oxidation(PdCl2+Benzoquinone))-> MDP2P
4. Distillation: of Reaction contents to yield pure MDP2P
5. Rxn: MDP2P -(Al/Hg Amalgam (MeAm.HCl) -> MDMA oil
6. Crystallization (MDMA oil + HCl in IPA/Xylene) (anhydrous conditions)
HOW DOES MDMA WORK?
check out the DanceSafe Slideshow.
Basically, MDMA acts as an acute anti-depressant, flooding your synapses with serotonin, the neurotransmitter responsible for feelings of happiness and contentment.
WHEN DOES NEUROTOXICITY OCCUR?
Basically, when there is not enough serotonin to bind to the serotonn receptor sites and dopamine fills in instead, the synaptic junction is damaged. This is my understanding of it, i will search for a clearer explanation. Or please provide me one.
DRUGS COMMONLY SOLD AS MDMA
DXM - dextromethorphan, the active dissociative drug (also cough suppressant) in Robitussin. Very DANGEROUS to mix with MDMA, has led to one confirmed death and many bad trips.
4-MTA - "flatliners" 4-MethylThioAmphetamine - Potent 5HT (serotonin) releaser and MAO inhibitor sold as ecstasy, responsible for 3 deaths in Europe.
PMA - paramethoxyamphetamine, deadly amphetamine sold as ecstasy
Caffeine - active ingredient in coffee
DOB - bromo-STP.
Methyl Salicylate - Oil of Wintergreen
Speed, amphetamine
Ketamine, a veterinary anaesthetic
Ephedrine / Pseudoephedrine - Ma Huang, Sudafed, trucker's speed, Mini-thins
GHB, gammahydroxybutrate, 'liquid ecstasy' - chemical composition / neurological effect is nothing like MDMA, this is just a marketing ploy.
MDXX COMPOUNDS COMMONLY SOLD AS MDMA
MDA - 3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine
MDE - 'eve' N-Ethyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine
DRUGS COMMONLY COMBINED ('FLIPPED') WITH MDMA
MDMA + Ketamine hydrochloride
MDMA + GHB
MDMA + LSD 'candyflipping'
MDMA + Psilocybin mushrooms 'hippy flipping', 'MX missile'
MDMA + Speed
MDMA + 2-CB / Nexus, 'nexusflipping' 'bee-flipping'
MDMA + Nicotene
MDMA + Acohol
PRELOADING / POSTLOADING REGIMENTS
please contribute
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BLUELIGHT / NET TERMS
BL - Bluelight
PLUR - peace, love, unity, respect
FAQ - frequently asked questions
ASAP - as soon as possible
IMHO - in my honest/humble opinion
WTF? - what the fuck?
LOL - laughing out loud OR lots of love
LMAO - laughing my ass off
ROTFLMAO - rolling on the floor laughing my ass off
A/S/L - age, sex, location
S/O - significant other (boyfriend, girlfriend)
(n/t) - the subject line is the message
ROAR - right of admission refusal
Troll - a non-person who spends their energy disrupting the normal flow of the Bluelight community

DRUG ACRONYMS & NAMES
A - acid, LSD, liquid, doses, blotter
C - Cocaine Hydrochrloride, yayo, blow, a CNS stimulant
Candyflip - ingesting MDMA & LSD
Contraindications - combinations of two different chemicals that are hazardous to the body, e.g. MDMA & MAOI's
E - ecstasy, MDMA, X, XTC, Adam
G - GHB, gammahydroxybutrate
GS -gas spectrometer, a method of pill testing
HTP, 5HTP - 5 hydroxytryptophan, a health food supplement that is a
precursor to the neurotransmitter serotonin, which plays a huge role in our rolls. Combines with carboxylase to form 5HT (serotonin). Is sold as a natural anti-depressant.
J - a joint, a marijuana cigarette, a blunt

K - Ketamine Hydrochloride, kitty, Special K, a dissociative drug
MAOI - MonoAmine Oxidase Inhibitors, group of drugs that is dangerous to take with MDMA and prescription drugs.
MDXX - a member of the methylenedioxy group, e.g. MDMA, MDA, MDE
SJW - Saint John's Wort, an herbal anti-depressant, also a MAO inhibitor.
THC - tetrahydrocannibanol, the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana
TLC - think-layer chromotography, a method of pill testing.

TYPES OF DRUG EFFECTS
Dissociative - disconnects mental reality from physical
Empathetic - connect with others
Entactogenic - "feeling from within"
Psychedelic - "soul manifesting"
Sedative - relaxing
Stimulant - energizing

A QUICK GUIDE TO NEUROTRANSMITTERS
dopamine -
norepinephrine - altertness and energy
adrenaline -
serotonin -
A QUICK GUIDE TO BASIC CHEMISTRY TERMS
methyl/meth -
ethyl/eth -
phenyl/phen -
amine -
carbo -
oxy -
hydro -
benzo -
ketone -
amyl -
nitrate -
reaction -
reduction -
oxidation -
acidic -
basic -
aqueous - water
anhydrous - 'without water'
Merck Index - the Merck is a dictionary of thousands of chemicals, listing their structure, basic chemical and pharmacological properties and pointers to synthesis and more detailed info. It's truly the chemist's bible.
MDMA, RAVING TERMS
Marquis Reagent / EZ-tester - a compound that will distinguish between MDXX compounds (black/purple) and speed, 2-CB, DXM (smoking), and inactive compounds. Marquis reagent is made up of formaldehyde, sulphuric acid and methanol. Be careful when handling it.
Local terms for MDMA - beans, rolls, pills, caps, tabs, mollies, kandy, bikies, biscuits, bombs
Mollies, molecules - small pure tablets with minimal filler and adulterants, also capsules filled with MDMA powder
Blowing up - to feel a mind/body orgasm, usually aided by a fellow roller
Rolling - to be feeling the effects of ecstasy, sometimes in rolling waves
8UP / Cracked Out - Florida/SoCal terms for the tired, burnt feeling after hours, days of partying and consumption

Sticks - cylaume glowsticks, lightsticks
Lightshow - to move sticks in a manner so enhance the visual field of a "rolling" person
E-pression, Tuesday blues - acute depression (usually at comedown or days after) resulting from MDMA use.
E-tarded - state of asocial euphoric stupor, usually by users under the age of 18
Binky - a pacifier, used to minimize the effects of jaw clenching
Double Stacked, Triple Stacked - tablets 2 or 3 times as thick, giving the impression of more MDMA content.
Mg - milligram, one-thousandth of a gram. Most psychoactive chemicals are active between 10mg and 1g.

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BEST PLACES ON BL TO LOOK FOR SOME GOOD READING
the closed '99 discussion board
The Search Engine
the Links page
All the other forums!!!
BEST PLACES ON THE NET TO READ UP BEFORE POSTING TO LOOK KNOWLEDGEABLE
ecstasy.org
the Lycaeum
Vaults of Erowid
Erowid's MDMA Vault
Hyperreal
Dancesafe
MAPS.org
Media Awareness Project News
Lycaeum Trip Reports Archive
the Hive
Divine Soma Experiment
GOOD ONLINE FAQ'S
Psychedelic Experience FAQ
GOOD ONLINE BOOKS TO READ
E Is For Ecstasy - Nicholas Saunders
PIHKAL - Alexander 'Sasha' Shulgin
TIHKAL - Alexander 'Sasha' Shulgin
The Psychedelic Experience, Leary, Metzner
Why Can't we Cope with Ecstasy?, Johnathan Cope
GOOD BOOKS TO READ
Ecstasy: the MDMA Story - Bruce Eisner
Ecstasy: dance, trance, transformation - Nicholas Saunders
Generation Ecstasy - Simon Reynolds
Altered State - Matt Collins
Rave America - Mireille Silcott
Club Cultures - Sarah Thornton
BEST PAGES OF LINKS
MAP's Links
DRUG-REFORM INSTITUTES
Psychedelic Island Views
Heffter Research Institute
The Lindesmith Center
DRC Net
the Alchemind Society
ORGANIZATIONS WORKING AGAINST YOUR FREEDOM
DEA
the Controlled Substances Act
Text of the Controlled Substances Act
list of Schedule I substances
OTHER PLACES ON THE NET TO FIND PILL REPORTS
Dancesafe Lab Testing
Dutch site
Oz site
So. Africa site
US site
Ecstasy.org site, scattered reports
OTHER MESSAGEBOARDS LIKE BLUELIGHT
good
Hullabaloo Raves - Toronto
the Shroomery
Huge! (NY)
not so good
Ravelinks
RaveShots
LoveParade board
LA Raves.com
Raves.com Discussion
start your own!
EZ Board
WEBSTITES FOR PSYCHEDELIC CONSCIOUSNESS
DeOxy.org
RAVE FAQ'S
Alt-Rave FAQ
the Spirit of Raving
DiY Archives
ALTERNATIVE SOURCES OF NEWS
Consortium News
Media Filter
Disinformation
-----------------------------------------------------
ROLL TRICKS
http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001339.html
http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001720.html
THIS IS THE ADDRESS TO SEND YOUR PICS TO
[email protected]
Instead of starting a new thread saying you have your pic up,
just put it in your signature instead. Give them some time to put them up.
A CHEAT SHEET TO UBB CODE
---- replace { with [ ----
{url=www.website.com} Link {/url}
{b} Bold {/b}
{i} Italics {/i}
{email} [email protected] {/email}
{quote} "The internet is a great tool for downloading pornography." - Bill Clinton {/quote}
QUESTIONS
Q. Why do i see the word 'bump' as a response?
A. It is a response for the sake of sending a thread to the top of the pile.
Q. What does it mean to pre-load, post-load?
A. Loading is ingesting vitamins, supplements, chemicals in order to enhance
the MDMA experience, to prevent neurotoxicity, and to ensure a smooth comedown.
Q. Why are the words n-a-r-c and p-e-r-u marked out?
A. Because there was a period of namecalling that ended
up with the damn N word posted all over the board and
got everyone unnecesarily paranoid. The P word is knocked
out because there is a dude from that country who speaks in
a truly psychedelic toungue who is dying to trade his coke for
good e, a no-no on Bluelight.
Q. Why am i called a 'New Bluelighter'? When will i become a 'Bluelighter'?
A. You are a 'New Bluelighter' when you first register. After a certain number of posts,
you will blossom into the 'Bluelighter' we always new you could be.
WAYS TO SAVE BLUELIGHT'S BANDWIDTH
1. Search Bluelight and the Net to find your answer before posting a new thread.
2. Bump an old thread before starting a new one.
3. Ask your question in a related thread before starting a new one.
4. Don't keep reloading the topic board to see if your thread has any new replies, take a break.
5. Don't keep reloading multiple-page threads.
6. Pick which threads you wish to read carefully.
7. Integrate several threads into one.
8. Make any thread you start comprehensive and universal, not just personal.
9. If you have threads you like to reread, save them as HTML pages on your desktop.
10. Bookmark your favorite threads.
NETTIQUITE RULES COMMONLY BROKEN ON BLUELIGHT
1. Multiple placing of signatures in same post
2. Unnessarily long signatures or extra lines of space in sig
3. SHOUTING IN ALL CAPS
4. Using a huge font to call attention to oneself.
5. Starting a new thread without searching for a similar one first.
6. Not breaking up long strings of text into paragraphs.
7. Not attributing quoted text to its rightful creator - PLAGIARISM
8. Not providing a link to interesting quoted text
LITTLE THINGS YOU MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN
1. If you edit your post multiple times, it may show [Edited by ....] more than once. Go down to the bottom of your post while editing and delete those extra lines. Also you may have to hit your refresh button otherwise it might use the cached edit page, meaning you're editing an old copy.
2. If you bump a post, you may wish to delete those bumps after other people post. Reasons: to keep it clean and readable, and so that when people search for your name, they don't get a lot of irrelevant posts.
3. It is refreshing to see people with different signatures every couple of weeks, or something that will eliminate the need for surveys and polls. See this one for example. You don't need to edit your profile to make a new signature, just unclick the box when posting and make a dashed line and type away.
4. If you go to someone's profile, there is a line you can click on that will search all posts by them.
5. The folders on the left of the thread listings are red/pink when they contain new replies since you last visited.
6. If you are loading a multiple-page thread to check the last couple postings, save BL the bandwidth and stop it as soon as it loads, then click on the page number you want.
7. Here's the code to make a signature like mine, replace { with [ -
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-----------------------------------------------------
COMMONLY MISSPELLED WORDS
ecstasy
heroin
serotonin
psychedelic
consciousness
conscientious
opinion
science
MEASUREMENT TERMS
1 pound = 16 ounces = 455 g
1 kilogram = 2.2 pounds (lbs)
1 ounce = 8 'eighths' = 30 g
1 'eighth' = ~3.5 grams
1 fl. oz = 30 ml = 1/8 cup
4 fl oz = 120 ml = 1/2 cup
1 tsp = 15 ml = 1/2 fl oz.
1 inch = 2.5 cm
100 C = 212 F = boiling point of H2O
US REGIONS
SF - San Francisco (or sound factory, NY)
NorCal - Northern California
CFL - Central Florida
LA - Los Angeles
SoCal - Southern California
TO - Toronto (Canada)
G'vile - Gainsville, FL
OH - Ohio
CHI, Chitown - Chicago
DC - District of Colombia, Washington DC
VA - Virginia
MD - Maryland
NOLA - New Orleans
NY, NYC - New York City, Manhattan
-----------------------------------------------------
[email protected] / 26 / het male / San Francisco / trancehead / search for me
"Hey baby, do you plug or swallow?"
 

johnboy

Enlighten
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 1999
Messages
6,873
Location
Melbourne, Australia
here's another opinion on the "Perfect Pre/Post Loading Routine"
originally posted 22 June 2000 11:45 AM by Trancendance
http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum12/HTML/005525.html
Perfect Pre/Post Loading Routine
***DISCLAIMER: I am not a doctor or in any way medically trained. Everything written here has been learned from research on the internet, reading scientific journals, etc. I have provided links to back up my claims at the bottom of this post, so please check those. If anyone has additional or contradictory information please post it. This is the perfect routine for ME, thus you may need to change it for yourself for various reasons. (e.g. if you can’t take so many pills on an empty stomach.)***
I really, really, REALLY like my brain, so I’d like to keep it functioning at 100%. That’s why pre/post loading has become a religion to me. I’ve been doing it for a few months now, and I only wish I would have started sooner.
Research has shown that E causes brain damage. But research has also shown that the damage can be prevented.
There are two goals to pre/post loading as I see it. PRIMARY: Prevent/reduce brain damage. SECONDARY: Make the E experience longer/better.
Also, I believe that daily supplementation and exercise (i.e. staying healthy and fit) is KEY. You will need your brain and body for your whole life, don’t sacrifice your health and well being for a few hours of pleasure.
That said, here is my pre/post load and daily routine, which will be followed by an explanation.
Pre-load
Taken with grapefruit juice one hour before the first E pill.
10 5-htp 100mg
4 Magnesium 250mg
2 Alpha Lipoic Acid 300mg
3 Anti-oxidant multis
2 Multi-vitamins
2 Vit C 500mg
1 Vit B-100 Complex
Post-load
Taken with fruit juice and fruit rolls (within 6 hours of taking first E pill).
1 Prozac 20mg
2 Alpha Lipoic Acid 300mg
3 Anti-oxidant multis
2 Multi-vitamins
3 Milk Thistle 175mg
2 Melatonin 3mg
1 Kava Kava 1000mg
Daily
Taken with meal.
2 Multi-vitamins
2 Multi-minerals
1 Alpha Lipoic Acid 300mg
2 Anti-oxidant multis
2 Milk Thistle 175mg
The most important part of this is the Prozac. YOU MUST POST-LOAD WITH 20mg OF PROZAC WITHIN 6 HOURS OF TAKING YOUR FIRST PILL. Prozac has been shown to COMPLETELY ELIMINATE brain damage from E in rats, it is highly likely that it does the same in humans. Watch the slideshow at Dancesafe to understand why (link below). Also, there is a link below to a UK pharmacy where you can legally buy Prozac without a prescription for about $3 per pill, including shipping to the US.
The second most important part is to pre-load with Alpha Lipoic Acid. Another study showed that this also eliminated brain damage from E in rats. (link below). Alpha Lipoic Acid is a very strong anti-oxidant, and taking it in conjunction with an anti-oxidant multiple (containing at least Vitamins C, E, & A) makes it even more effective. A high dose (600mg) is safe and very effective. Milk Thistle is also an anti-oxidant that helps the liver, and thus is an excellent post-load, since you’ve been exposed to many environmental toxins at raves and clubs.
Of course, daily multi-vitamins help to maintain health. Pre-loading with them ensures your body has all it needs to function at its peak.
Magnesium helps stop jaw clenching. 1000mg is very effective.
5-htp is the direct precursor to serotonin. Preloading with this helps because, as the E is dumping out your serotonin, 5-htp is replacing it. This will definitely make you roll longer (probably not harder), and it can possibly help prevent brain damage, since your serotonin supply might not completely run out, although this is theoretical and has not been proven. You must supplement a big dose of B-6 (around 6000% of suggested daily dose) as well as some vitamin C (around 2000% of suggested daily dose) at the time you take 5-htp to ensure it converts to serotonin. Don’t worry, these vitamins are water soluble and big doses won’t hurt you.
Also, 1000mg is a rather large dose of 5-htp. Start out around 300mg and work your way up. Some people report stomach upset with 5-htp, so you may not be able to take very much.
DO NOT TAKE 5-HTP WITH PROZAC ON THE POST-LOAD! It can cause serotonin syndrome. So, pre-load with 5-htp, post-load with Prozac.
Finally, Kava Kava and Melatonin will help you sleep.
Taking the pre-load with grapefruit juice is beneficial because it contains something that helps slow down the metabolism of drugs in the body. Essentially, it will make your E more potent (see link below). With such a big pre-load, it usually takes me 32 oz of grapefruit juice to get all the pills down.
Taking the post-load with fruit juice and fruit rolls helps get some calories back into the body after you’ve been depleted. It’s often difficult to eat afterwards, but fruit rolls seem to go down pretty well. Or any sort of fruit or fruit product is good. Some people recommend protein shakes. I try to drink and eat at least 500 calories before I go to bed, this seems to help a lot.
OK, that’s an explanation of MY perfect pre/post loading routine. Please comment or add any additional information you think would be helpful.
Here are some links, as well as some outtakes from some of the pages:
Prozac links:
http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/index.html
(You MUST watch this slide show if you haven’t already, it’s very enlightening.)
Prozac Prevents MDMA Neurotoxicity in Animals
A number of studies have shown that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) like Prozac prevent MDMA's neurotoxic effect. The theory as to why this happens is this: SSRIs plug the reuptake transporters, thus preventing dopamine from getting into the serotonin axon terminal (see the previous slide). Notice that the prozac fits pefectly into the transporter. Researchers refer to this as "affinity" and say that prozac has a greater affinity for the uptake transporter than other things in the synapse, including serotonin. In other words, Prozac will bind to the transporter first. It will also stay there for a relatively long time. Prozac has a half-life of 30 hours, which means it takes 30 hours for half of it to leave your body, another 30 hours for half of what's left to leave, etc. It is thus called a "long-acting" SSRI. It plugs the transporters for a longer period of time than the other common SSRIs do. Research has shown that brain serotonin levels remain significantly depleted for approximately 24 hours after a lage dose of MDMA. It is during this time period (beween 6 and 24 hours after dosing) that the brain's serotonin transporters are left empty and vulnerable, and it is during this time that the neurotoxic damage occurs. This means Prozac may be more effective at preventing MDMA neurotoxicity than other SSRIs, which do not last as long in the body (although this is unknown).
An important observation in these studies was that prozac prevented the neurotoxic damage even when given up to six hours after the MDMA. What they did was inject all the animals with MDMA, and then every hour they gave some of them an injection of Prozac. Only the animals who got the Prozac during the first six hours showed no damage. The ones who got the Prozac on the seventh, eighth, ninth and tenth hours (etc.) sustained damage, with the ones who got the prozac later sustaining more.
What about in humans?
While no studies have been done to assess the effectiveness of Prozac as a neuro-protective agent against MDMA neurotoxicity in humans, there is no reason to suspect that human brains react differently than animal brains in this regard.
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v04n3/04304neu.html
Animal research has shown that combining the prescription drug Prozac with MDMA prevents neurotoxicity, even when Prozac is taken up to six hours after the MDMA. This works because Prozac binds to the same serotonin re-uptake sites which can be damaged by MDMA metabolites (though only when MDMA is administered at doses higher than the standard therapeutic or non-medical amount). The presence of Prozac at the re-uptake sites prevents the neurotoxic MDMA metabolites from binding, eliminating its potential effect on the re-uptake sites.
http://mdma.net/protect.htm
The FLUOX (Prozac) pretreatment protected against MDMA-induced 5-HT and 5-hydroxindole acetic acid depletions in the frontal cortex, somatosensory cortex, striatum and hippocampus.
http://mdma.net/mdmafluox.html
These results support previous findings that fluoxetine (Prozac) protects against (+/-)-MDMA-induced 5-HT (serotonin) depletion.
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v01n3/01305neu.html
The simultaneous administration of Prozac and MDMA completely blocked the neurotoxic properties of MDMA. This finding may be the key to unlocking the door to FDA-approved human studies with MDMA, since it seems possible that the MDMA neurotoxicity risk, difficult to estimate, can instead be entirely eliminated.
Alpha Lipioc Acid links:
http://www.mdma.net/alphalip.html
Repeated administration of the metabolic antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid (100 mg/kg, i.p., b.i.d. for 2 consecutive days) 30 min prior to MDMA did not prevent the acute hyperthermia induced by the drug; however, it fully prevented the serotonergic deficits and the changes in the glial response induced by MDMA. These results further support the hypothesis that free radical formation is responsible for MDMA-induced neurotoxicity.
http://www.gnc.com/wellness/natpharm/Supp/Alpha_Lipoic_Acid-F.htm
Alpha lipoic acid is a vitamin-like antioxident. Alpha lipoic acid is sometimes referred to as the “universal antioxidant,” because it is soluble in both fat and water.
Anti-Oxident (Vitamins C, E, A, etc. See this link for complete list) link:
http://www.gnc.com/wellness/natpharm/Diet/Antioxidants-F.htm
Reducing exposure to free radicals and increasing intake of antioxidant nutrients can reduce the risk of free radical-related health problems. (such as MDMA neurotoxicity)
Milk Thistle link:
http://www.hcrc.org/faqs/milkthis.html
5-htp links:
http://www.mindspring.com/~herbshop/5htpfact.htm http://www.smart-publications.com/5-htpbook.html
Grapefruit Juice link:
http://www.media.wayne.edu/iws.back.issues/iws3_6_97/grapefruit.html
Good link for info on nearly all nutritional supplements:
http://www.gnc.com/wellness/natpharm/Index/SuppX-F.htm
Buy your Prozac legally and without a prescription at:
http://www.smart-drugs.com/
Buy your nutritional supplements from such stores as:
http://www.iherb.com/ http://www.mothernature.com/ http://www.drugstore.com/ http://www.planetrx.com/
(I’ve found that iherb usually has the best prices.)
Please add more links and information if you know of any.
------------------
Trance and Dance: the enlightened path to Trancendence.
 

haste

Bluelight Crew
Joined
May 21, 2000
Messages
7,641
For those that are interested...
re: Serotonin
http://www.fairlite.com/ocd/articles/ser90.shtml (even mentions MDMA)
http://www.emory.edu/CHEMISTRY/justice/chem190j/5ht.htm (where 5htp fits in)
http://www.biosynergy.com/sjw.htm (Info on St.John's Wort and it's relatiion to serotonin - apparently it outsells Prozac in Germany) http://www.weightlossguide.com/stjohnswort.html (another site praising St.John's Wort over Prozac)
Seeing as Prozac is prescription drug, I will further look into St.John's Wort as a replacement for Prozac. I guess the main issue for us is wether it has the some power of Prozac to prevent toxidity - does it prevent the re-uptake of Dopimine. Any inforamtion or comments woould be greatly appreciated.
Further research in Germany has shown that St. John's Wort (Hypericum) also contains Hyperforin which is a potent uptake inhibitor of serotonin and dopamine: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?db=m&form=6&Dopt=r&uid=9718074
It's a bit of a grey area at the momment because alot of people also claim that St.John's Wort is also closely related to MAO INHIBITORS - due to inconclusive research on this herb - it's probably a good idea to stay away from it. I keep looking into it and you all posted. I guess the attraction of Hypericum is it's lack of side effects as opposed to Prozac.
[This message has been edited by haste (edited 06 September 2000).]
 

pinger

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 23, 1999
Messages
1,409
Location
Sydney, NSW, Australia
So you've decided to drop: A first time ecstasy user's guide to success
User’s Guide
Pre-Loading
Dosage
Nutrition
Administration
Waiting for it to kick in
Experience
How to avoid trouble/What to do in case of trouble
Post-Experience
Next day
Next week
Preparing for the next time
Glossary
The Dangers Of Ecstasy
Ecstasy deaths
Adulterants
Cousins of MDMA
Long term damage
Beware
Fun things to do on ecstasy
Commentary
PRE-LOADING
Take with high carbohydrate (sugar) liquid (without vitamin C). Avoid high protein meals close to taking 5-HTP to allow maximum assimilation. Two hours before you plan to take your MDMA, take 200-500mg 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) so taking it two hours before gives you one hour of coming up, then your serotonin levels are peaked as the MDMA kicks in.
Take the following one-hour before, with a sweet non-carbonated beverage (without vitamin C). The sugar will spike your insulin and help the aminos cross the blood brain barrier.
· 500-1500mg DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine) - It releases and keeps endorphins present much longer and stronger. It's general action on an MDMA experience, is to allow those endorphins created by serotonin release to stick around much longer and stronger. Taking an extra 1000 to 2000mg every two hours will extend the effects.
· 2000mg Glutamine - Taking Glutamine before with your pre-dose and afterwards (see post experience) to eliminate the toxic metabolites and uric acid, that develops in your joints and muscles, can totally take away any aches/charlie horse like pains you have afterwards. (Glutamine changes back and forth between glutamic acid, which cleans up toxic metabolites in the brain as well)
· Vitamin B-6 (pyridoxine) - Vitamin B-6 increases production of serotonin caused by the 5-HTP. The 5-HTP encourages the release of serotonin. B-6 is also a natural steroid, lessening the muscle damage caused by the MDMA. B-6 is the main co-factor that allows aminos to cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB). As much as vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is counteractive for the most part, due to scavenging the effects of the positive toxic effects of MDMA, 100mg to 400mg of vitamin C are needed along with the B-6 for optimal blood-brain barrier crossing. So, taking the vitamin C at this point is up to the person taking the MDMA. Such a small amount of vitamin C shouldn't make too much of a negative impact on your experience, and in my opinion the damage it prevents is well worth it.
· 100mg Coenzyme Q10 - Oxygenates the heart and increases circulation. It is also a significant immunologic stimulant. This is particularly nice because during an MDMA experience your immune system isn't at it's greatest.
· 200mg time release Vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) - Maintains endurance and fights stress.
· 500-1000mg u-i-nethyl-p-tyrosine - Dopamine has been shown to play a clear role in MDMA induced neurotoxicity. A linear correlation has been demonstrated between acute Dopamine release and extent of long term 5-HT terminal deficits. U-i-nethyl-p-tyrosine is a dopamine synthesis inhibitor, it protects against 5-HT terminal destruction. Amphetamines affect both serotonin and dopamine release. Tyrosine and it's ability to raise dopamine levels can only be considered a plus, adding to the intensity of the dopamine related effects of the MDMA.
· 5000mg Creatine - Creatine before and after is a big suggestion for those that ache too much the morning after an MDMA experience. Considering the intense workout you're putting your muscles through whether you're active or just sitting around, you end up depleting the creatine in your muscles very quickly.
· 200mg Phosphatidylserine - This is a well-tolerated way to restore phospholipid balance of cell membranes. Phosphatidylserine is a nutrient found most concentrated in brain cells (70% of cell membranes are phosphatidylserine). Extensive clinical studies indicate phosphatidylserine supplementation can help slow the mental decline associated with aging. It has the ability to reduce the effects of both mental and physical stress, so it's used for the most part as a stabilizer and to hasten recovery. It can help keep you from freaking out or panicking before, during and after an MDMA experience.
Some users pre-load in order to increase the intensity of their MDMA experiences. If you need to take 5-HTP in order to enjoy your MDMA experience, you are probably not giving your brain enough time to replenish its serotonin naturally. Taking MDMA this frequently increases your risk of neurotoxic damage.
Other than what's listed above, you should not eat for three to four hours before you take MDMA. During the day that you plan on taking MDMA try to stay away from foods with lots of Vitamin C and Protein. Try to stick to high carbohydrate and sugar foods.
I suggest that the combination of vitamins, minerals, and non-vitamin nutrients listed in the chart below would be valuable for the prevention and/or treatment of the adverse effects that may result from phenethylamine overdose or overuse. There is nothing magic about the doses listed; it is my best estimate based on present knowledge in nutrition. Note that N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) is recommended instead of glutathione as it is more effective in raising tissue glutathione levels; in addition, it is less expensive than preformed glutathione. L-Carnitine and CoQ10 have also been included, as both are known to increase cellular energy (adenosine triphosphate, or ATP) generation, thereby enhancing cellular integrity.
-Brian Leibovitz, Ph.D.
Nutrients for Blocking Phenethylamine Damage
Nutrient Preventive Dose
Therapeutic Dose
Form
B-Carotene
5mg
15mg
Consider supplements of other carotenoids (e.g., lycopene) as they become available.
Bioflavonoids
2g
6g
Mixed bioflavonoids from a variety of sources.
Coenzyme Q10
100mg
300mg
Only one form available
L-Ascorbic acid
2-4 g
6-12 g
Free acid or calcium, magnesium salt.
L-Carnitine
1g
3g
L-carnitine HCl or, if possible, less hygroscopic salts (e.g., L-carnitine magnesium citrate).
N-Acetylcysteine (NAC)
2g
6g
Only one form available; do not use L- cysteine.
Selenium
250mcg
500mcg
Form not critical. Inorganic (e.g., selenite) as effective, and less expensive, than organic forms (e.g., selenomethionine)
Vitamin E
1,000 IU
3,000 IU
Available data indicate that form is not critical.
DOSAGE
The most MDMA recorded to be contained in a single tablet of ecstasy is 161mg.
Threshold 30mg
Light 40 - 70mg
Common 75 - 125mg
Strong 125 - 175mg
Heavy 200+mg
LD50 (Lethal Dose*) 106mg/kg or ~6,000mg
* LD50 = dose which will kill 50% of the tested animals.
NUTRITION
MDMA suppresses your appetite while increasing your level of activity. The appetite suppression carries on 8-12 hours after taking MDMA. This means that you are burning up your body's reserve energy when you are dancing and not eating. When the body's reserves are gone, you then begin burning muscle tissue, this, unlikely as it is, is bad. Of course, all of this adds to your physical stress levels, and lowers your immune system. The bottom line is that you must try to eat correctly before, during (if you really can) and after MDMA. This is complicated by the fact that MDMA slows down the movement of your bowels, making it harder to digest food.
Before An Experience Eat fruits, vegetables and starches. Avoid oils and heavy proteins, especially if you are prone to nausea.
During The Experience Drink juice, eat simple starches (bread, crackers) and nibble fruit. Set a schedule for eating and try to stick to it. Remember that you won't feel hungry. Try to avoid candy, carbonated beverages and anything with alcohol or caffeine. These may seem nice, but they do bad things to your blood sugar and hydration. (Trying to eat at this time is particularly difficult; so don't get down on yourself for not being able to eat, because it's not your fault. Who wants to waste their time during an MDMA experience eating a sandwich that they don't want?)
After The Experience Eat fruits, vegetables and starches. Avoid oils and heavy proteins and eat several small meals rather than trying to eat a few large ones. Remember you won't FEEL hungry but your body needs the nourishment.
Take a good look at yourself; are you just skin and bones? Consider raising your calories from starches and good fats (e.g. olive or canola and fish). Your body needs a slight layer of fat to stay healthy.
ADMINISTRATION
There are a few different ways of administering MDMA.
Dropping (Oral) - Swallowing is the most common and easiest is just swallowing it. MDMA usually tastes quite horrible. Make sure you swallow it with some water. If you chew it up a little bit, into smaller pieces, it'll hit you faster for obvious reasons. If you simply can't stand the taste then parachute it. It's also possible to dissolve it in water and drink it. When MDMA is swallowed it doesn't get into your system via digestion. It's actually absorbed by your stomach lining. The water helps it get absorbed.
Note: Parachuting is crushing up a tablet into granulated powder, placing it into a small piece of toilet paper, and swallowing it. Hits harder, faster, and without the awful taste.
Snorting (Insufflating) - MDMA is usually more difficult to snort than ketamine or cocaine because MDMA tablets are usually very firm which makes them hard to cut up. MDMA also may burn when going up. This does not always apply to gelcaps, which may have no filler. While snorting, the experience will be more intense and hit you faster (than dropping), but will not last as long (dropping lasts longer). Watch out for CHEMICAL BURNS. They're more likely to occur with snorting MDMA than any other chemical, which is why it hurts so much. If it burns for more than 15 minutes, stop. Do not snort more. Even if you have a Gel cap of MDMA, cut it up as fine as possible.
Note: When snorting MDMA please use a CLEAN straw and NOT a rolled up bill. You can transfer hepatitis among other conditions.
Plunging (Rectal) - Because of all the blood vessels in your rectum, it makes it a particularly good place to take MDMA into your system. Crush the pill into a rather fine powder and pour it into a gel cap seal the cap, lubricate your anus and shove quick and as far as you can go. By taking MDMA through this method it should hit you faster and give you a noticeably more intense and overall "different" experience. It is supposed to be a more intense body rush. IF you are the type of person who gets runs from dropping, plunging your MDMA is NOT recommended. You will lose your MDMA. MDMA is actually an acidic salt which, when dissolved in water, has a lower pH than the rest of the body. This means that if you ingest it rectally often enough, the corrosive effect could cause some local irritation and potential damage. If taken with a large enough volume of water, this effect is most likely negligible. Also, the rectal administration of MDMA will quicken the speed of onset.
Tang - About 90% of the MDMA you put in your system will come out in your urine within the next 48 hours. If you save this and drink it you can potentially bring back the effects of the MDMA with it. Of course urine doesn't taste very good so it's a good idea to mix it with tang or iced tea mix, along with a lot of water.
Smoking - You can smoke MDMA but it will give you a completely different high and is much less effective than any other method. It's also very hard on your lungs.
Injecting - This lasts one fifth as long as dropping. It kicks in next to instantly and is three to five times as intense. However MDMA Tablets may have insoluble materials such as magnesium or calcium stearate, or talc. If these materials are not removed from the solution, they may clog a small artery, or may induce the formation of a clot. Such clots, if they break free from the blood vessel may travel to the lung or brain and can prove fatal. Also MDMA is a potent agent in releasing norepinephrine from neuron endings on blood vessels, causing them to contract. MDMA is known to increase both blood pressure and heart rate (125mg of MDMA speeds up your heart an average of 30bpm). When given orally, this effect is gradual, but when given by injection, one would expect to see a rapid effect. The rapid escalation of blood pressure could lead to stroke or hemorrhage. Also, injection of solutions of any drug (MDMA, amphetamine, etc.) involves risks of bacterial contamination. Bacteria, which cannot resist digestive acids and enzymes, may rapidly flourish if introduced directly into the bloodstream by injection. A single bacterium or a fungal spore could prove disastrous.
Note: Please use a CLEAN needle when injecting. HIV among other conditions can be transferred.
WAITING FOR IT TO KICK IN
Be patient. Don't underestimate it or get impatient with it. If Swallowed or plunged MDMA usually takes somewhere between 20 to 90 minutes to kick in; snorting, smoking or injecting it produce much more rapid effects, although I've heard stories of it kicking in as soon as 15 minutes. After two and a half hours if you still feel nothing, you're probably waiting for aspirin to kick in or you're just not going to feel it that night, possibly because of depression or you consumed MDMA less than one week ago. However a couple of times I've seen peoples MDMA not kick in for a long time, up to 6 hours! When the effects of MDMA are delayed, eating too soon before administration of MDMA may have caused it. Your body needs time to digest the food before it can allow the MDMA to take effect. Or it could be that your body weight might be greater than that of others who have would have already started to feel the effects, thus the MDMA will take longer to travel around your system before taking full effect.
EXPERIENCE
You MUST have the following equipment with you before your MDMA kicks in.
· Have a soother (pacifier) with you or some gum with you. MDMA causes your muscles to tighten all throughout your body; this is particularly noticeable in your jaw. A soother or gum will help a lot with trisma (jaw clenching) and bruxia (tooth grinding) problems, and prevent you from chipping your teeth. You can also stretch your jaw out every once in a while to help fight/prevent this. Do not chew on your lips if possible. Once you start, you won't stop and they can end up super sore and bleeding.
· Have water with you. Drinking approximately 500ml of water per hour should keep you from becoming dehydrated. A watch that beeps every hour so you remember to drink water would be a plus. MDMA puts excessive strain on your liver, making it difficult for it to filter anything going through your body, so try not to drink any more than 1000ml of water per hour. It's VERY easy to become very warm and not realize it, which will dehydrate you. Drinking too much water can cause hyponatraemia (water intoxication), which can be fatal in some cases.
· Have extra clothes and a downy blanket on hand, in case you need to warm up. You might be very cold and not realize it (unlikely).
· It's a good idea to have something comforting with you i.e. you favorite stuffed animal or favorite sweater. This should reduce the already slim chance of any sort of paranoia or edginess. This is very rare, as compared to other drugs like LSD. MDMA has never been known to precipitate psychosis. Also, try to have Vitamin C on hand in case things go do bad. 1000mg should pretty well kill the experience, 250-500 just to reduce the intensity. Thorazine (An Anti-psychotic) or SSRIs like Prozac or Zoloft have the potential to greatly reduce the intensity of an MDMA experience.
What should I expect?
You can expect a massive release of Serotonin, Dopamine, Norepinephrine for approximately 2-6 hours. The neurotransmitter serotonin will make you hyper-emotional, generally in a positive direction, but if something very scary or very sad happens, you may become VERY unhappy. Dopamine is another neurotransmitter. Dopamine controls your motor functions and taste, touch, feel, smell and see. Getting more than normal of this chemical makes all your senses extremely amplified. So everything tastes amazing, especially candy. Touch feels very good, a hug or a back rub feels unimaginably spectacular. Vicks inhalers are great. Also, there is an initial diuresis, meaning there is an increase in urine output at the beginning of the MDMA experience, but then there is a decrease in urine output later on, which is important. Everything also seems brighter & you'll have mydriasis (pupillary dilation). Don't expect any open eye or auditory hallucinations. VERY mild closed eye hallucinations may be experienced. Norepinephrine and epinephrine increase the heart rate as well as blood pressure, increase the rate of glycogen conversion for energy, and relax bronchial smooth muscle to assist breathing. Norepinephrine is also involved with muscle control and may cause such side effects as trisma (jaw clenching) and bruxia (tooth grinding). Abnormal eye movements, little eye wiggles (nystagmus) reminiscent of Rapid Eye Movements, are usually only seen at the peak of an MDMA experience. It is one way to tell if people have taken pure MDMA or not, because it is not a common side effect of other stimulants. Uncontrolled rolling eye movements where the eyes roll around, sometimes towards the back of the head have been known to occur as well. It is possible that one of the slang terms of taking ecstasy called "rolling" comes from this phenomenon. Despite the street name of MDMA, "ecstasy", if you are male the having sex is rather difficult. This is because it causes blood to rush to the brain, and when all that blood is in your brain it can't be in your penis at the same time, thus making an erection close to impossible. If you're a girl, you should be able to have sex normally while on MDMA. Even at the peak of the drug's effect, at a realistic dose people can easily bring themselves down to deal with an important matter.
HOW TO AVOID TROUBLE/WHAT TO DO IN CASE OF TROUBLE
1. NO MAO INHIBITORS (Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor), OR OTHER DRUGS THAT INTERFERE WITH MDMA/SEROTONIN METABOLISM, You can DIE from hypertensive crisis. People have. Do not take any MAO inhibitors two weeks before or after taking MDMA. Examples: Ritonavir or Crixivan, Acutaine (Roaccutane), Nardil, Parnate, Marplan, Harmaline, Ayahuasca, Cocaine, Black current juice, St John's Wort and Syrian Rue. Also try to stay away from Codeine and Dextromethorphan (DXM). These two in high enough doses could theoretically lead to dangerously high levels of MDMA in the bloodstream. Also try to stay away from other opiates. The stimulant effect of MDMA may mask opiate effects and make overdose easier. In the case that you have AIDS and are on any proteus inhibitors please refrain from taking MDMA would most likely fatal.
2. LOOK AFTER FRIENDS AND GET THEM TO LOOK AFTER YOU.
3. MDMA puts serious strain on the body. Before taking it try to be healthy and well rested. Your heart, liver and kidneys all have to work harder.
4. Avoid taking MDMA if you are on anti-depressants. While MDMA and some antidepressants have no problem together, it's best just to stay away.
5. If you are lying or sitting in a position that you think should be uncomfortable, MOVE! It may seem way too easy to sit in uncomfortable position and since your muscles are tightened up you can get a charley horse very easily.
6. If you start to feel dizzy, get up and walk around, take deep breaths in through the nose, out through the mouth. This could be due to it being too warm where you are or possibly not drinking enough water.
7. If you feel as if you're freaking out find someone that is SOBER to talk you down or someone with a somewhat level head on them.
8. If you are DANCING or in a WARM place, realize that you may be dangerously overheated even without feeling uncomfortable. Also if you are dancing a lot, feel your chest every once in a while, if you feel your heart beating extremely fast, it's time to take a break.
9. Wear LOOSE, LIGHT CLOTHING to keep you cool. Beware of hats as they trap body heat.
10. Try and book the next day off work, or make sure you don't have to go to school the next day. This is especially important if you have gym class or a job involving manual labor. Generally speaking don't do much at all for the next couple days.
11. If you are unhappy or nervous before you drop, that may increase your chances of having a bad experience. If you try and do something productive and fail while on MDMA, you may get very depressed, and it'll be hard to get back up again.
12. If you wouldn't be comfortable in the situation, wearing a shirt and pants, SOBER, then you won't be comfortable in that situation while on MDMA. That's a good way of gauging temperature; if you're too hot, sober, don't take MDMA, likewise for cold.
13. It becomes easy to want to prolong the effects of MDMA by taking more and more of the drug (or of other drugs), beyond what you would judge wise or worthwhile when not under its influence.
14. MDMA affects body co-ordination making it potentially dangerous to drive or operate machinery while under the influence of the drug.
15. MDMA causes the constriction of blood vessels (vaso-constriction), which can cause headaches in some people. Dehydration can also contribute to vaso-constriction; so drinking enough water may help reduce the potential for headaches.
16. If you have low blood sugar MDMA can potentially make you VERY dizzy, particularly after an MDMA Experience. MDMA suppresses the appetite, and a lack of food can cause low blood sugar, which in turn can cause dizzy-spells. It is important to eat something after you take MDMA, even if you don't feel hungry.
17. One should not be out in bright sunlight while on MDMA without some sunglasses. You'll have mydriasis (pupillary dilation), and your retina may end up getting burned.
18. A rave or other large party MAY not be the best location for your first time consuming MDMA, look for a place where little or nothing can go wrong, and people won't mess with your head. Try to make sure there's no one you don't get along with there or just try to avoid any person you have any problems with.
19. Anyone on MDMA should not have a temperature above 38.5ø C and their pulse should not rise above 120 beats per minute. If either rises past the amounts mentioned above, the person should be taken to the hospital immediately.
20. It's probably wise to stay off MDMA if you are pregnant, although trials show that it does not harm the offspring of rats. Pregnant women, who take the drug sold as ecstasy, are at risk of delivering babies with malformations, British researchers warn. Of 136 pregnancies during which the mothers took ecstasy, 78 babies were born alive.
21. Your pain threshold is greatly increased by MDMA. This can cause some Serious problems, you could stub your toe, be bleeding all over the place and not even know it. Don't get your back scratched WAY to hard, and end up with some serious scratch marks on your back or even some serious pain if someone is massaging you too hard.
22. Make sure you urinate, even if it's difficult. You want to get rid of toxic metabolites.
POST EXPERIENCE
Try to get good sleep afterwards if you can, very few people can sleep while actually on MDMA. So don't expect to be able to sleep the night of/after taking MDMA.
50-100mg 5-HTP along with 1-3mg melatonin - For going to sleep afterwards, taking a 5-HTP combined with melatonin works extremely well almost every time. 5-HTP alone or melatonin alone can work at times, but is not a surefire way like the combination. This would most likely be due to the 5-HTP first working on changing to it's automatic pro-cursor serotonin, and thereafter producing melatonin much later, so sleep doesn't end up being 5-HTP's prerogative when your serotonin levels are so low.
Note: THC can produce large amounts of melatonin.
500-1000mg u-i-nethyl-p-tyrosine - This helps replenish all the spent dopamine during an MDMA experience.
N-Acetyl-Cysteine (500mg when burning out and another 500mg 12 hours later) – It’s an amino acid and powerful tool for boosting your immune system. N-Acetyl-Cysteine is the best thing to take for eliminating all the free radicals that invade you in droves after an MDMA experience. You can eliminate the effects of free radicals by properly fixing the extreme electron imbalance affecting your body.
Vitamin E (tocopherol) (400 I.U.) – This is a strong Antioxidant.
Silymarin (200mg when burning out and another 200mg 8 hours later) - To counteract the toxic effects of MDMA (and methamphetamine and others), taking a silymarin (milk thistle extract) supplement afterwards is very beneficial. It normally is known for it's reparative abilities on the liver, popularly used in rebuilding the liver in cases of Hepatitis and related liver disorders. Taking silymarin afterwards will usually cleanse your liver of toxins, which normally would sit there for days. (I believe it would shorten the three to five day presence of MDMA in your urine, by quite the amount as well.)
1000-2000mg vitamin C (ascorbic acid) - Vitamin C will reduce the possibility of serotonin level or serotonin system changes if taken before MDMA. Vitamin C is best taken after an MDMA experience, in the last hour or so of its effects.
5000mg Creatine - (See pre-loading)
2000mg Glutamine - (See pre-loading)
20-60mg Prozac (fluoxetine) - Prozac and other selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) like Zoloft reduce the effect of MDMA in some people, but it is widely used with or just after ecstasy to prevent neurotoxicity. Animal studies show that an SSRI can prevent toxicity, presumed to be due to preventing toxic metabolites from being reabsorbed into these sites.
NEXT DAY
Take a good multi-vitamin multi-mineral (containing Vitamin A, C, E, Coenzyme Q10) for the day after. Break it up to help digestion and do not take on an empty stomach.
Even after all those vitamins, you'll still be pretty sketchy the next day. You'll probably seem a little spaced out. Your muscles should be a little sore too. You should remember just about everything that happened during your experience. Drinking orange juice is the perfect drink for the next few days because it has lots of sugar and vitamin C, it also helps you get re-hydrated if you didn't drink enough water the night before.
Exercise is one of the best ways to get your blood circulating. DO NOT go to gym the morning after as your heart has been through enough! However, any aerobic exercise will do you wonders.
NEXT WEEK
You may seem a little happier or over emotional than normal for a little while, but after about two days or a week at the latest, you should be feeling back to normal. Within 48-72 hours all the MDMA you consumed will be completely out of your system. However Like most amphetamines, evidence of MDMA being in your system can still be detected in urine for three to five days.
PREPARING FOR THE NEXT TIME
Repeated dosages of MDMA will cause the amphetamine-like affects to continue, but the mental effects will start to fade and can only be fully brought back by ceasing intake of the drug for a period of time, usually about a week. Also, there is a limit beyond which the mental effects will not increase in intensity no matter how much of the drug is taken (the "ceiling effect"). Thus, repeated ingestion of the drug to produce an extended period of euphoria is not common.
Taking MDMA every weekend or so is not a good idea. You should leave large breaks in between uses, three weeks is usually enough. Save it for special occasions. If you have to do more than three tablets of MDMA in order to achieve the effects of one tablet when you first started then you need to take a break for at least two or three months. This is also true if your MDMA has NO effect at all on you.
You cannot build a "tolerance" to MDMA. However you can run low on neurotransmitters, and simply overwork your brain and body so that your MDMA doesn't work nearly as well as it should. It can even get to the point where MDMA doesn't even work at all. As long as the frequency and dosages do not reach an extreme, full or nearly full MDMA effects should return with time.
I. GLOSSARY
MDMA - 3,4-methylenedioxy-methylamphetamine.
Synapse - The point at which a nerve impulse passes between neurons.
Axon - A long nerve fiber that conducts away from the cell body of the neuron.
Vitamin B-6 - pyridoxine is involved in the production of brain hormones (neurotransmitters). More than 50 chemical processes in the body are dependent on pyridoxine.
5-HTP - 5-hydroxytryptophan is a precursor to L-tryptophan and serotonin. It raises serotonin levels in the brain.
5-HT (Serotonin) - 5-HydroxyTryptamine is a phenolic amine neurotransmitter that is a powerful vasoconstrictor and is found especially in the brain, blood serum, and gastric mucosa of mammals. Serotonin plays a role in over 40 different brain functions. Although the specifity of how it is involved in these functions is still unknown. (Serotonin is stored inside nerve cells. When a nerve cell starts to send a message, it releases this "stored" serotonin into the space the message must cross to get to the next nerve cell. Once the serotonin is outside of the nerve cell, it is "free" to work. Because it helps carry the message from one nerve cell to another, serotonin is called a neurotransmitter.)
Dopamine - Neurotransmitter, affects mood, sleep and learning. Parkinson's disease is associated with a lack of dopamine in the brain, and an excess of dopamine is linked with schizophrenia. Some psychoactive drugs such as LSD and mescaline apparently produce their hallucinatory effects by binding to serotonin and dopamine receptors in the brain.
Nor/epinephrine - Members of a class of compounds, the catecholamines, which are synthesized from the amino acid tyrosine. Secreted in response to positive/negative stress. Their release into the blood gives the body a rapid bio-energetic boost increasing the basal metabolic rate and having dramatic effects on several targets. Both increase the rate of glycogen breakdown in the liver and skeletal muscles and also increase glucose release into the blood. They also stimulate the release of fatty acids by fat cells. Both increase the rate and stroke volumes of the heart beat and dilate the bronchioles in the lungs. The catecholamines also cause smooth muscle of blood vessels to contract and muscles of other vessels to relax thus shunting blood away from skin, digestive organs and kidneys towards the heart, brain and skeletal muscles.
Melatonin - Inhibits gonadotrothins and their effects. (A neurotransmitter/hormone related to serotonin important in sleep function.) The pineal gland contains light sensitive cells or has nervous connection from the eyes. Melatonin regulates functions related to light and season. For example, melatonin affects skin pigmentation in many vertebrates. Since melatonin is secreted at night the amount of melatonin secreted depends on the length of the night.
Endorphins - Peptide neurotransmitters, isolated from the pituitary gland, having morphine like pain-suppressing effects. Also implicated in memory, learning, sexual activity, depression and schizophrenia. In addition to relieving pain endorphins also decrease urine output, depress respiration, produce euphoria and have other effects on emotions.
Free Radicals - These are molecules with an unpaired electron. The unpaired electrons are highly energetic and seek out other electrons with which to pair and stealing them in the process. This electron "rip off" is what makes free radicals both useful and dangerous.
Antioxidants - These are also known as free radical scavengers. They function by offering easy electron targets for free radicals. In absorbing a free radical, antioxidants "trap" (de-energize or stabilize) the lone free-radical electron and make it stable enough to be transported to an enzyme, which combines two stabilized free radicals together to neutralize both.
***
The dangers of ecstasy
Ecstasy deaths
Adulterants
Cousins of MDMA
Long term damage
Beware
Fun things to do on ecstasy
Commentary
ECSTASY DEATHS
Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) United States Department of Health and Human Services
Reports of mentions for MDMA Annual Emergency Room Data:
1990 - 61
1991 - 104
1992 - 236
1993 -71
1994 -250
1995 - 444 (ranked 130th on a list of 139 drugs)
Note: The above implies that 129 other drugs of abuse are implicated in more problems than ecstasy in the USA.
Coroner's Report: (number of deaths)
1990 - 0
1991 - 2
1992 - 0
1993 - 1
1994 - 1
1995 - (not yet available)
Figures obtained for me by Sylvia of MAPS, 5/97
In Canada there were no ecstasy-related deaths before 1997.
Deaths that have occurred due to ecstasy have been due to one or more of the following . . .
1. Taking too much
One person was admitted to the hospital after allegedly consuming large amounts of ecstasy, they had a horrendously high body temperature and died.
2. Drinking too much water/Not drinking enough water
This usually occurs only when people are on MORE than one capsule of ecstasy. Ecstasy dehydrates you, if you don't drink enough water while you're on it you could end up dead due to dehydration. If you drink far too much water, then you could end up with water intoxication or overwork your liver and again be in serious trouble due to liver failure. If too much water is drunk, too quickly, then the level of sodium in the blood becomes diluted. With too little sodium, water gets lost into the fabric of body tissue, causing swelling. If the brain swells, pressure is put on the brain stem, which controls heart and breathing functions. This can be fatal.
3. Overheating
Hypothermia is a potential problem. Excessive exposure to heat which leads to muscle breakdown which can cause kidney failure, clotting problems called Disseminated Intravascular Coagulopathy (DIC.) It's very rare, but there have been a few deaths because of this. The last year we have emergency room data for right now is 1997, and there were no deaths in the US that year. The problem is that people are taking this drug, and other drugs, and they are not cooling off and not taking in enough fluids and they are overheating.
4. Mixing ecstasy with the wrong kind of drug i.e. a MAO inhibitor.
A decent quantity of a MAO inhibitor and ecstasy when used in conjunction together will most likely kill you.
5. Heart Attack
This once again, usually occurs while on more than one capsule of ecstasy or if the user has a heart condition.
6. Abnormal fluid/electrolyte balance
This can cause serious problems. What's happening here is they some people are drinking too much water, and because MDMA increases water retention by increasing the effect of Anti-Diuretic Hormone (ADH), the balance of water and sodium is off. Urinating less and keeping more water in the body causes sodium levels to drop, this means you can have seizures, cerebral edema, which is basically "water in the brain," and this is not good. So, basically, you need to stay cool and drink water but you can't drink too much water. You should only replace the water you have lost through sweating.
7. Cardiac dysrhythmia due to idiosyncratic drug reaction.
People all have a relatively close tolerance to MDMA, MDA, MDEA etc., except for some very rare cases where people's tolerances are VERY low. So some people get absolutely messed off of a 1/4 capsule. The deaths caused by MDMA-induced "heat stroke", liver failure and cardiac arrest are idiosyncratic reactions to the drug. For at least 99.9% of the population there is NOT an overlap between recreational and toxic levels.
8. Hepatitis & Liver Failure
Hepatitis has been reported, though rarely, but one point of concern involves the enzyme that metabolizes MDMA in the liver (CYP2D6). It is deficient, or totally absent in 5 to 10 percent of Caucasians and African Americans and 1 to 2 percent of Asians. I think this is one of the places that we're getting into trouble is that some people do not have the capacity to metabolize MDMA and the levels get too high. If your body doesn't have this enzyme you should not take MDMA. I don't know how you can find out if you have this enzyme or not. MDMA use in conjunction with lack of this enzyme may be the cause of some of the liver failures reported.
ADULTERANTS
A tablet you buy on the street could contain anything. It may be pure MDMA, It may contain one of the following or maybe even something not mentioned here along with it, or it may not even contain MDMA at all. The most common thing mixed (cut) with MDMA is some sort of speedy upper. MDMA by itself can be very mellow. You shouldn't have to worry too much about methamphetamines, cocaine or artificial heroin in a capsule of ecstasy. They are dangerous chemicals but they are more expensive than ecstasy, so what dealer would want to put two points (200mg) of methamphetamines (worth approximately 40 to 50 dollars) into a 35 dollar capsule or tablet of ecstasy.
Caffeine, Ephedrine, Dexedrine, Amphetamines, Methamphetamines - To Hype you up and keep you wide-awake while on your MDMA. Methamphetamine, as well as being neurotoxic itself, has the potential to greatly exaggerate the neurotoxicity of MDMA because of its relation to dopamine. Toxic metabolites from broken down dopamine result in potential neurotoxicity.
Ketamine, PCP - Animal tranquilizers, powerful dissasociative hallucinogens (added fun, usually slow down your perception of time and make your high seem longer).
Dextromethorphan (DXM) – This is the most common adulterant sold as MDMA powerful disassociate & hallucinogen, (Has been used instead of MDMA in counterfeit tablets sold as ecstasy). DXM inhibits sweating. It easily causes heatstroke. These are reasons not to combine different brands of Ecstasy. If one cap is MDMA and one is DXM you could be in serious danger.
Paramethoxyamphetamine (PMA) - can become extremely dangerous, causing increased blood temperature and blood pressure. PMA has been sold as ecstasy, in pressed pill form indistinguishable (taste, smell & appearance) from ecstasy at possibly dangerous dosages. PMA is far more dangerous than MDMA.
2-CB, 2C-T-2, 2C-T-7, DOB, DOI, DOM – These produce hallucinogenic effects.
Atropine - Increases the heart rate, (cardiac arrhythmia can occur).
4-MTA – This is a potent serotonin-releasing agent which is also an MAO inhibitor.
[email protected], MDE (MDEA), MMDA, MBDB – All are very similar to MDMA, discussed in detail in the cousins of MDMA section.
Heroin% - Added dopamine release (not often used, if ever). It’s too expensive and the effects of the MDMA would override those of the Heroin.
Cocaine - Added "clear headed" affect (not often used, if ever). Increases risk of serotonin syndrome.
LSD - Added hallucinogenic effects, (Only one occurrence has ever been found, highly unlikely).
Mescaline – Never seen in Ecstasy. It’s far to expensive and too much trouble.
Note: Some of these chemicals last much longer than MDMA and continue after the initial effects of the MDMA have worn off.
Note: With realistic doses MDMA, isn’t likely to cause nausea. It's usually the other stuff in tablet that can make you nauseous. Try and keep some Tums or Pepto Bismal on hand to calm your stomach if needed.
@ MDA is twice as neurotoxic as MDMA.
% Real heroin is not present in any ecstasy. Heroin is NOT to be ingested. It has a negative effect on ecstasy to consume heroin with it. It also costs a whole lot more than MDMA. There has never been any Heroin found in a pressed ecstasy tablet. With capsules however, there are some foolish people out there who have made some strange concoctions.
Dancesafe.org runs an ecstasy pill testing service. I have charted results of all the tests on the pills they have been sent as of July 8th 2000.
/ = AND/OR
* = May contain Ephedrine AND/OR Caffeine as well
COUSINS OF MDMA
MDMA has several chemical "cousins" which have different effects.
MDA (3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine) - It is similar to MDMA in its effects, but is slightly more stimulating. It has been shown in laboratory studies to be approximately twice as neurotoxic as MDMA, though in some 30 years of human use, case reports do not suggest that it has caused behavioral or psychological problems. The physical side effects seem to surpass those of MDMA and MDE. Jaw clenching, upset stomach and muscle spasms are more common and more intense. MDA lasts longer and generally produces more visuals and psychedelic effects than MDMA.
MDE or MDEA (N-ethyl-methylendioxyamphetamine) - MDE is similar to MDMA, though it seems to turn the subject inwards and invite less communication than does MDMA. Usually causes fewer physiological side effects than with MDMA, but more impairment of motor skills than MDMA or MDA. MDE is slightly shorter in duration than MDMA and generally has a lower peak and less euphoria than MDMA. Unlike MDMA, there has been a single report of psychosis attributed to MDE.
MMDA (3-methoxy-4, 5-methylenedioxyamphetamine) - Often confused with the similarly named but chemically different MDMA. MMDA is reported to generate interesting, closed-eye hallucinations - "brain movies", or conscious dreams.
MBDB (N-methyl-1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-butanamine) - Differs structurally from MDMA only by the addition of an extra carbon to the MDMA chain. Effects are similar to MDA.
LONG TERM DAMAGE
MDMA causes severe strain on your liver, kidneys, heart and the rest of your Muscles. Your liver and kidneys should recover in a few days, your muscles and heart in a bit longer. However, studies show that after 90 uses with high doses (more than you'd find in any single capsule of ecstasy) of MDMA, heart problems can arise. MDMA causes your brain to release Serotonin, Dopamine and Norepinephrine. There is no evidence that the parts of the human brain that release Dopamine and Norepinephrine sustain any permanent damage from MDMA. MDMA destroys some nerves that release serotonin. These nerves usually grow back normally within 12-18 months, but in some cases some of the nerves don't grow back or they grow back irregularly. They may grow back larger (making it easier to make you happy) or smaller (making it more difficult to make you happy) than before. Also this damage is usually not in extreme quantities. This damage is also heat dependent, the warmer the conditions the more damage caused. An unpublished MAPS-funded study by Ricaurte, in which oral 2.5mg/kg MDMA was administered to non-human primates once every two weeks for four months (8 administrations), showed no effect in levels of serotonin. The best indirect evidence for MDMA neurotoxicity comes from a study by Drs. McCann and Ricaurte that is the most comprehensive and controlled research project to date investigating the long-term effects of MDMA on experienced MDMA users. The study showed that a group of MDMA users (average exposure of 95 times) had roughly 32% less serotonin metabolite in their spinal fluid on average than a group of controls. To put this finding in context, it is important to note that the normal range of serotonin metabolites in spinal fluid is quite large. Some people naturally have twice as much or more than others. A difference of 32% between groups, although statistically significant, is a relatively small shift within the normal range of serotonin metabolite levels. The rumor that MDMA drains your spinal fluid, ruins your back is untrue. This urban legend apparently started because some pharmacological studies are done by giving subjects MDMA, then withdrawing cerebrospinal fluid samples for analysis via spinal tap. It is "MDMA research", not "MDMA" that may drain your spinal fluid! MDMA does not cause Parkinson's disease. This rumor apparently got started because of confusion between MDMA and MPTP (1-methyl-4-phenyl-1, 2, 3, 6-tetrahydropyridine). MPTP can appear as a contaminant from bad manufacture of a synthetic opiate, and has caused tragic neural damage to unfortunate recipients of the contaminated black market opiate. MPTP bears no chemical relation to MDMA, and has not been associated with MDMA manufacture. The rumor that MDMA causes bursting of the axons on 5-HT uptake neurons. The jury is still out on this one. The 5-HT (serotonin) uptake neurons are the receptor sites that MDMA bonds to in the brain, and experiments done on lab animals seem to suggest that MDMA may destroy 5-HT axons. However, no noticeable symptoms have been observed as a result of this in either rats or humans, and a common prescription weight-loss drug (fenfleuramine) produces three times the amount of the same kind of damage and has never been linked to any form of brain dysfunction. If you're really paranoid, then taking some Prozac or Zoloft may prevent most of this "damage". Studies examining changes in behavior from two to four weeks after neurotoxic doses of MDMA (5-40 mg/kg, twice daily for four days) all suggest that there are no significant changes in behavior. Some research suggests that continued use of MDMA WITHOUT INTERMISSION can cause depression and in certain cases can become chronic. The "time bomb theory" is a theory that MDMA may cause repercussions that will not manifest until later in life. MDA use was widespread in the 1970s. Now, 30 years later there still hasn't been a report of any "time bomb" effects of MDA. Seeing as MDA is twice as neurotoxic as MDMA, any time effect seems unlikely.
Dr Franz Vollenweider and his team at the University of Zurich have administered pure MDMA to MDMA-naive subjects (people who have never taken the drug before) and used PET scans to measure serotonin uptake sites in their brains. PET scans were taken before, during and one month after the subjects were given 1.5mg/kg of MDMA. No reduction of serotonin uptake sites was found at the one-month follow-up. Biological and psychological tests were also administered, and there was no evidence of functional or behavioral consequences due to MDMA.
MAPS sponsored an international conference on the clinical use of MDMA, August 31 and September 1, 1999 and MAPS concludes: "In summary, there are no data showing that one or few doses of MDMA in a clinical research context bear substantial risks for long-term harms from possible neurotoxicity"
Note: Nothing currently makes it possible neither to reject (nor to accredit) the assumption that repeated administrations of MDMA induce irreversible deterioration whose pathological character is relevant only in the past few years.
BEWARE
BEWARE - Ecstasy is not physically addictive. It is however, psychologically and physiologically addictive.
BEWARE - It's not unheard of that people will sell other drugs PCP or ketamine as ecstasy (by accident or on purpose).
BEWARE - Do not accept ecstasy in gel caps from people you do not trust. Anyone can pop open a gel cap, and add ANYTHING in or take anything out.
BEWARE - People make clone batches. If a tablet of ecstasy with a chicken symbol on it you tried two weeks ago was good, it does not mean the one with a chicken on it you see this time will be from the same batch.
BEWARE - If ecstasy is unusually cheap there may be something wrong with it. It may be too weak, cut with something undesirable or not even be ecstasy at all.
BEWARE - People all have a relatively close tolerance to MDMA, MDA, MDEA etc., except for some very rare cases where people's tolerances are VERY low. So some people get absolutely messed off of a 1/4 capsule. So it may be wise to start with low doses of ecstasy.
BEWARE - Occasionally ecstasy can cause dangerous reactions in people with asthma, heart conditions, hypertension, glaucoma, diabetes or epilepsy.
BEWARE - Alcohol and other drugs can reduce or change the effects of ecstasy, and the combination can cause undesired effects.
BEWARE - Less is sometimes more. If you take too much at once, you can be far more messed up than you wanted or expected. The side effects may outweigh the desired effects. Something mixed in a capsule of ecstasy may not have profound effects until two or more are taken. Large doses can lead to anxiety, panic and confusion.
BEWARE - If you start taking more than two capsules of good ecstasy in one night, because you need that much to feel the effects. Taking a break for ecstasy would be a good plan.
BEWARE - Be cautious with new pills. If you are taking a new brand of pill for the first time, start with half a pill and wait an hour to see how strong it is before you take more. You may be used to taking two or more pills at once, but this new brand could be two or three times stronger than the ones you have been taking.
BEWARE - Ecstasy is illegal, if you have a baggie sitting in your POCKET with a capsule or two, you can get in SERIOUS trouble. Be creative. Hide your ecstasy well.
BEWARE - There seems to be a lack of consistency when it comes to actually knowing the strength and the ingredients of any single ecstasy tablet because they are not manufactured with any degree of administered control. This means that one pill you take may contain a higher level of MDMA than another may, even if they are from the same batch.
BEWARE – There are pills without scores (indented lines) on the bottom, you may be getting ripped off, because people may shave off some of the pill.
FUN THINGS TO DO ON ECSTASY
I do not condone any of the behavior suggested below. Some of these are dangerous.
Just about everything that is even mildly entertaining, amusing or stimulating when you're normal, can be lots of fun while on ecstasy.
Sex -
. . . if you can pull this one off, lucky you . . . no kidding . . . LUCKY YOU!
Dancing – It’s very exhilarating. Be sure to take breaks to rest yourself and to get water every once in a while.
Kiss - Kissing while on ecstasy is definitely better than it is normally.
Hugs - Well, it HAS been called the "Hug Drug".
Cuddles - Simply cuddling with someone is great. Try and get as comfortable as you can.
Massage - A Back/Shoulder massage is incredible. Hand & Face massages are also very fun.
Sarah Therapy - Ask Sarah.
Spinning Hug (Devastator) -
Flying Hug -
Pass Through the Floor -
Stretching - Simple stretching feels really good.
Dish Soap - Feeling different textures is certainly amusing. By far the most amusing is dish soap.
Heat Treatment - Rub your hands together really fast, until they're very hot. Then run them down someone's face when they have their eyes closed. Wow.
Licking Eyeballs - Have someone lick your eyeball, very WEIRD. You can also have someone lick your eyelids with your eyes closed if that one is too gross for you.
Food/Drink - Anything you really like the taste of sober, you're bound to love while on ecstasy.
Vicks Inhaler - Inhale, turn your head into a peppermint patty. Don't over do it, it'll feel like your nose is running when it's not.
Deep Cold - A massage using this is intense. Don't use more than three or four times in the same spot in one night, it may cause a rash.
Tiger Balm - Amazing, you can put it almost anywhere on your body. Be careful putting it near your eyes. It comes in three strengths, Black, Red and White.
Brushing your Teeth - Brushing your teeth is pretty incredible especially with extra minty toothpaste.
Showering - Just take a normal shower, with a friend or alone. Be careful not to put the water to hot or too cold, your body cannot regulate its temperature properly while on MDMA.
Back Ride - find a friend and hook arms back to back and close your eyes. The person with their eyes still open bends over so the other person is supported on their back then started to shuffle your feet. It is absolute complete sensory depravation. Just the feeling of spinning and floating.
Hats - Wearing a hat can enhance the serotonin-related effect of MDMA quite a bit, it'll keep your head warmer and heat increases 5-HT activity. But beware; this also increases the danger of overheating/dehydration.
Vibrating Things - Those little bugs with the strings that you pull out are TOO much fun.
Heated Towels - Put towels/blankets in the dryer for like a few minutes. It's so warm.
COMMENTARY
There are no studies that necessarily support anything discussed in this section. It is simply commentary by various ecstasy users.
Ignorance may be bliss . . . but bliss is nowhere near ecstasy.
something for your mind, your body and your soul
it's the power to arouse curiosity
the purpose
the goal which one acts on
a journey of force hot like the sun and wet like the rain
rhythmatic movements in unison with others prolong an act of sensation with no limits or boundaries
eternity has passed
wrong is right
it's the point of greatest intensity
pleasures of the highest sense
feelings of warmth and security
willing and unwilling sensations of the mind
a condition
the ultimate seduction
Amnesia is, not knowing whom one is and wanting desperately to find out . . . Euphoria is - not knowing whom one is and not caring . . . Ecstasy is knowing exactly who one is, and still not caring.
Don't take ecstasy at raves unless you can handle it. People clogging up hallways and rolling around on the dance floor, and generally being so fucked that they can't control themselves, getting in other people's way do not belong there. If the only reason you are going to a rave just because you need a place/excuse to take ecstasy, then go home.
Irreversible brain damage can result from a single pill. This statement has never been proven; I’m not even sure it’s ever been reported. Its just another scary myth circulated by the fried egg mentality "this is your brain on drugs" propaganda. –Dr. Julie Holland
Look out for Ecstasy cut with lots of methamphetamine, the combination of MDMA and methamphetamine seem to cause noticeably more severe jaw clenching than MDMA alone.
A while back, it was speculated that marijuana reduces sweating (no hard scientific evidence) if this IS true, taking marijuana while taking ecstasy may cause overheating problems.
More common adulterants like MDA & DXM, which can produce visuals, are often mistaken for rare PCP.
Additives like cocaine & heroin are usually added to ecstasy in very small quantities so they have close to no affect on a person, but they help build a tolerance. So, if you consume a capsule of ecstasy cut with a fair amount of cocaine every weekend for a month, then use cocaine once you have a much higher chance of doing more and even becoming addicted.
They’re like Lays potato chips...you can't eat just one
The secretion of the hormone prolactin is modified by serotonin. Ecstasy users tested DID NOT have irregular prolactin levels. Which is the same as the non-ecstasy users. Unlike people tested who had been given D-fenfluramine, MCN-5262 (chemical developed by MacNeil Labritories. It binds itself to serotonin) or metachlorophenopipradine MCPP (A serotonin agonist) which all showed evedince of irregular prolactin levels. This doesn’t really prove anything. I don’t think it does anyways. Anyways, neat fact.
Dr. Charles Grob believes MDMA caused changes to brain cells are accelerated and perhaps triggered entirely by overheating.
Halls and other menthol candies can help with nausea.
After-effects may include (particularly in the two-week period of receptor re-regulation subsequent to the 48 hour post ecstasy serotonin dip?) An abnormally high incidence of: relationship break-ups, overwrought personal arguments; emotional volatility, anti-social behavior, paranoia, jealousy and rejection-sensitivity, because our DNA-sculpted emotions are so cunningly encephalised, many ecstasy users often won't realize the subtler manifestations of what is happening. Even in a relatively benign scenario, imagine for instance what might be the effects of serotonergic damage which left millions of young users with an enduring 5% greater cognitive/emotional bias simply to find other people more irritating.
Ecstasy has been described, as an entactogen (literally to touch within) - and the overpowering emotional intensity, the reliving of the emotionally defining events of one's life, and the culturally deviant emotional literacy it promotes are, for many users, the peak experiences of their lives. Yet over the long-term, it seems quite feasible that ecstasy use exerts an anti-entactogenic effect. Serotonergic damage may lead to a reduction in the overall intensity of feeling similar to that sometimes (reversibly) induced by the SSRIs - things just don't matter so much any more. The central nervous system's capacity for "graceful degradation" may disguise what's happening.
Extraneous use of the drug ecstasy causes loss of drive and makes you care less about everything in general. Though you may not notice until you stop taking ecstasy for a while that this has occurred. Seeing as serotonin is the basic building block of all human thought, and for the next two to four weeks after taking a dose of ecstasy you tend to be particularly low on it. This theory makes sense. The less thinking you do, the less worrying you do.
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haste

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ahhhhh pinger you beat me to it hehehhe

just wondering how true the following statement is:
"Also, try to have Vitamin C on hand in case things go do bad. 1000mg should pretty well kill the experience, 250-500 just to reduce the intensity."
anyone?
[This message has been edited by haste (edited 06 September 2000).]
 

ghetts

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Ok then, this for the million dollars...
500-1000mg u-i-nethyl-p-tyrosine - Dopamine has been shown to play a clear role in MDMA induced neurotoxicity. A linear correlation has been demonstrated between acute Dopamine release and extent of long term 5-HT terminal deficits. U-i-nethyl-p-tyrosine is a dopamine synthesis inhibitor, it protects against 5-HT terminal destruction. Amphetamines affect both serotonin and dopamine release. Tyrosine and it's ability to raise dopamine levels can only be considered a plus, adding to the intensity of the dopamine related effects of the MDMA.
my understanding of this is that u-i-nethyl-p-tyrosine is somehow meant to prevent 5-HT terminal damage. Then it goes on to say tyrosine raises dopamine levels (which was my understanding) and that this is a plus!! However isn't dopamine running around the axon/synapse and re-uptake transporters half the problem? Is this a condradiction? Or can anyone clear this up for me?!? pleeeezzzee?!???

[This message has been edited by yossarian.lives (edited 21 September 2000).]
 

eddi spgeddi

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ive read much of this and the links over the past week. exceptional work and THANKYOU to all whom have made input.
lucky i have vry fast ADSL connection
and unlimited hours
oh and *bump*
 

luro

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*bump*
also a good article on ecstasy facts and fiction here (not written by me)
 

Mr. Horse

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its time for everyone to read :)
NB: please note i've deleted a lot of "bump" posts to clean things up a little :)
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Mr. Horse ]
 

johnboy

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yay for mr horse! ta mate.
we really need to get even a skeleton posting guidelines for this forum done and posted at the top of the page.
anyone who does it (bluelighter, mod, whoever) gets huge brownie points!
 

BigTrancer

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*bump*
Mini-FAQ and guidelines are at the top of the main page, this is the big momma info thread. Good info IMHO.
BigTrancer :)
 

CuPiD^^

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well, all i can say is wow.
it took me about 2 hours to read it all, and to listen to that wav file.
nice guys. this is what bluelight is about.
 
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