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[equal parts serious and not serious] Would Heaven and Hell be Identical for me?

ChemicallyEnhanced

ChemicallyEnhanced

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I'm an atheist so this is all theoretical but I'm not here to take the piss; this is something strange I've been thinking about a lot lately. It started off as sort of a private joke and then morphed into something philosophical I'm really interested in.

Okay, so. I am 1) an anti-theist (I'm against organised religion as a whole) and 2) scared of heights.

So MY idea of hell would be spending eternity in the sky with a huge group of preachy Christians.

SO...would I technically be in heaven or hell? How would I know? Or would I end up in some paradoxical vortex that causes the entire afterlife to implode?

Like I say, started off satirical but now I'm totally serious - not mocking anyone's beliefs.
 
Based on my research the after life (or what we can experience through NDE’s) is often in relation to the belief system you lived your life with. That said, generally there still seems to be a “heaven and hell” for everyone, they’re just very different based on culture and spiritual/religious practices.

Your “heaven” will likely be segregated from the Christians portion of heaven so don’t worry ;)

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
Based on my research the after life (or what we can experience through NDE’s) is often in relation to the belief system you lived your life with. That said, generally there still seems to be a “heaven and hell” for everyone, they’re just very different based on culture and spiritual/religious practices.

Your “heaven” will likely be segregated from the Christians portion of heaven so don’t worry ;)

-GC
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ChemicallyEnhanced said:
I'm an atheist
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What brought you to this concept?
What faith / religion(s) have you looked into before?

I bet when you see me posting on here if you read what I've put you must be thinking "This guy is off his nut"
I used to think the same as you do as in being an atheist at one point I'll admit it but there are so many types of faith out there & some of the stuff I've seen / been part of etc have changed my mind 100%.
 
According to Biblical cannon, Hell is the absence of God. It's not a place of fire and brimstone. Likewise, Heaven is not in the sky, but is a place where connection to God is omnipresent. To me, these are allegories for consciousness states while you're alive, not when you're dead.

I've read some really fascinating works over the years about what happens at the time of death. It would seem that as the spirit form leaves the physical body, it is momentarily in a state of confusion where it is still suffering from a sort of holographic impression of the body it just left, which includes its mind-body beliefs. If you believe in fire and brimstone as a possible afterlife, you may see this at the time of death, but after a time the illusion will disappear once you realize you have returned to the spirit form you were previously in before the human birth.

I think any preconception that humans have about an afterlife becomes just another veil that gets discarded when the spirit body rejoins wherever it came from. Most NDEs are just that, near-death. They aren't the true death. So people are still suffering from Samsara in those states, and Samsara is a product of the dualistic human mind-body. Once you get beyond the mind-body realm, you enter a state of remembering, and then it all makes sense again. It's not the "you" that you conceive of as being you right now. That ego dies when the body dies.

As long as the mind-body is still happening, then it doesn't matter how clever you are, you will not be able to see into the place that you came from before birth.
 
Zopiclone bandit said:
So it's YOUR view upon it.
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Yes.. my point of view based research articles as well as reviewing NDE after NDE. Really the only solid information we have on the subject of after life. Where’s your point of view from?

-GC
 
I have left my body many times in crazy as combos of psychedelics.

There are some not so pleasant realms of existence in infinite reality where suffering takes a level to another extreme higher planes of consciouness and exsitence are more blissful. Depending on what karma you have is where your energy will direct to.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
I'm an atheist so this is all theoretical but I'm not here to take the piss; this is something strange I've been thinking about a lot lately. It started off as sort of a private joke and then morphed into something philosophical I'm really interested in.

Okay, so. I am 1) an anti-theist (I'm against organised religion as a whole) and 2) scared of heights.

So MY idea of hell would be spending eternity in the sky with a huge group of preachy Christians.

SO...would I technically be in heaven or hell? How would I know? Or would I end up in some paradoxical vortex that causes the entire afterlife to implode?

Like I say, started off satirical but now I'm totally serious - not mocking anyone's beliefs.
Click to expand...

In your Hell you will fall forever seeing the the ground approaching but never actually reaching it, trapped into experiencing the panic and despair of the fall for all eternity.
Winged Demons will fly around you laughing and mocking you for your stupid mistake of using what little intelligence you were given in the vain effort of fighting religion, and sealing your fate by doing so.
I can imagine they will also do something physically painful but at the same time highly symbolic like crushing you between with two giant Bibles, whipping you with giant rosaries, or some other appropriate form of raining shit on your soul.
All this while you still are falling ofcourse.

Also, there are a lot of Christians in hell, all the ones that didn't fully repent before death.
 
Phobos said:
In your Hell you will fall forever seeing the the ground approaching but never actually reaching it, trapped into experiencing the panic and despair of the fall for all eternity.
Winged Demons will fly around you laughing and mocking you for your stupid mistake of using what little intelligence you were given in the vain effort of fighting religion, and sealing your fate by doing so.
I can imagine they will also do something physically painful but at the same time highly symbolic like crushing you between with two giant Bibles, whipping you with giant rosaries, or some other appropriate form of raining shit on your soul.
All this while you still are falling ofcourse.

Also, there are a lot of Christians in hell, all the ones that didn't fully repent before death.
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"using what little intelligence you were given" - actually, I'm very intelligent (speaking objectively, not bragging). If you do your research, the majority of the most intelligent people are atheists. This was a simple theoretical question; no need to go insulting people.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
"using what little intelligence you were given" - actually, I'm very intelligent (speaking objectively, not bragging). If you do your research, the majority of the most intelligent people are atheists. This was a simple theoretical question; no need to go insulting people.
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That was what your demons would say to you in a version of you personal hell I came up with, I hope you are not mad that I for using those words in that context.
It is not a reflection of my opinion on your intelligence.
I also do not really wish that demons inflict pain on you using weaponized versions of items relevant to the practice of the Christian faith, or that you spend eternity feeling you are falling.
I just tried to come up with a retaliation style punishment like Dante does in the "Inferno" so that the scenario would make your stereotypical bible thumping bigot feel reassured that you would be reasonably and adequately tormented for not agreeing with him.
 
Phobos said:
That was what your demons would say to you in a version of you personal hell I came up with, I hope you are not mad that I for using those words in that context.
It is not a reflection of my opinion on your intelligence.
I also do not really wish that demons inflict pain on you using weaponized versions of items relevant to the practice of the Christian faith, or that you spend eternity feeling you are falling.
I just tried to come up with a retaliation style punishment like Dante does in the "Inferno" so that the scenario would make your stereotypical bible thumping bigot feel reassured that you would be reasonably and adequately tormented for not agreeing with him.
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Ahhh, that's totally cool then :)
I've been meaning to read Dante's Inferno for years!

Meh, Demons can say whatever they like. Bitches be basic :p
 
You started a religious thread
"spending eternity in the sky with a huge group of preachy Christians"
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I'd say you have a propensity to be in Hell. Best of luck!
 
TripSitterNZ said:
I have left my body many times in crazy as combos of psychedelics.

There are some not so pleasant realms of existence in infinite reality where suffering takes a level to another extreme higher planes of consciouness and exsitence are more blissful. Depending on what karma you have is where your energy will direct to.
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The more I read of this person the more I have to agree 100%

I get the feeling you were (or maybe still into) huge doses of MXE?
 
The tree exists weither you believe in it or not. The fact of the tree's existence. The real deal is real, you dont have to believe in it.

To say heaven and hell, I imagine based on psychedelic experience, is not what it is at all. It is something totally different, completley unkown. Its the true secret; a secret that cant be told, completley awe inspiring. Of course I am not saying death is a dmt trip, but I think that what has been said about NDE's above is not totally acurate. So people have not had a pulse in 8 minutes, and its a "near death experience?" As in invalid because he didnt die? Cmon, the guy was dead for 8 minutes, saw God and was told the secrets of the universe

Counter point; Naa dude, hes just imagining it all, the brain just directly resorts to imagining impossible gods and systems of existence when your heart stops, its just your brain going hay wire. He caught on fire, 3rd degree burns, 8 minutes no pulse on the heart monitor? whatever he didnt even die!

Its so hard for people to believe in what they have right in front of their eyes. If I ask you who made the tree? Who created it? Who designed it like that? And you say its DNA. well then who designed the dna? Ah it just happened!

Isnt it also equally possible an intelligence designed it? Well obviously an inteligence created it, it takes intelligence to design things!! As humans who design and create things we know this.

Also invalidating psychedelic experiences like dmt is also slightly off, not that I dont personally do it myself, but are we forgetting the experience isnt just the drug but also our brain? And wouldnt our brain, us who are living beings, have inborn hidden knowledge about the circle of life? After all are brain was created by the same natural world which will one day take our life.

In any case if it is like dmt, or if we can use those experiences as similis, you wont have human thoughts like "oh man, I rather be home watching Family Guy" because it isnt a place u go to, but a transformation of the whole being into another thing. A trasmutation of the soul.

I speak passionatley cause I like the topic, this is just my oppion, please dont hate on me for sharing it, i.e, "you hallucinate and think u know what u are talking about" blabla. A philosophical talk however I will engage in and would enjoy it.

And Einstein believed in a higher power, and considered this the ultimate truth of existence more so than his science as expressed in his last letter to his daugther called On Love if i recall corectly.
 
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I firmly had faith in a higher "being / force" since I was a kid & that was well before I smoked Salvia or DMT may I add.

There is no way all this around us is by mistake or accident but that is my view on it.
 
The concept of a mistake or accident is just a human creation. Things just are how they are. You and I are a result of a 14 billion year long chain of events that at some point started with the Big Bang.

That much is pretty much a scientific certainty.

What happened before that is still unknown. Some think that before our universe existed there was another "mirror" universe that was shrinking inversely to the way ours is now expanding.

To broaden this out, there could theoretically be an infinite sequence of expansion and contraction. The problem is, we have no idea how our universe in its current state could ever begin to reverse itself again.
 
Foreigner said:
Once you get beyond the mind-body realm, you enter a state of remembering, and then it all makes sense again. It's not the "you" that you conceive of as being you right now. That ego dies when the body dies.

As long as the mind-body is still happening, then it doesn't matter how clever you are, you will not be able to see into the place that you came from before birth.
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I highly suspect this might be the truth, we are all "one"

However, it troubles me to my core. I love my family very much, and if we all turned out to be the same "being" then the part I loved about them is just temporary. All of who we "are" then is essentially experiences and memories. But if that dies with our physical body, what is the point of all of this? This rabbit hole gets deeper the further down you go. I've really been thinking about this a lot lately. It really bothers me and gives me anxiety.

You could argue that the "ego" is scared of death and that my higher self or true self isn't, but isn't our ego also important? After all, it's how we experience this reality. Shouldn't it also go with us into the next?

Then begs this discussion:
The idea of you should be yourself and do what you like/enjoy.
Who is the real you? If it's the higher self, shouldn't we all be the same? Everyone has a passion, is it possible we are all actually separate spirits/entities with individual emotions, feelings, desires, etc..
 
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