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  • CEPS Moderators: cduggles | JessFR | tathra

Epstein Dies in Custody - Alleged Suicide, Some Speculate it was a Hit Job

Captain.Heroin

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The fact that nobody has managed to commit suicide in this place in 40 years, and Epstein was the first one to have been successful is suspicious enough.
Or...the state ruled suicides to be homicides in the past to cover evidence/tracks. I'm sure a lot of people die in jail and the machine just keeps moving on. Probably saved a butt load of tax payer $ in lawsuits over the years.

Are you even willing to admit that he had dirt on extremely powerful people? Or do you consider that a conspiracy theory?
He may or may not have, I think most of us believe he did.
 

JGrimez

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Or...the state ruled suicides to be homicides in the past to cover evidence/tracks. I'm sure a lot of people die in jail and the machine just keeps moving on. Probably saved a butt load of tax payer $ in lawsuits over the years.
Jail cells are designed to prevent suicide.
Epstein attempted suicide a few weeks previously. He was then allegedly taken OFF suicide watch.
His cellmate who was there to keep an eye on him was transferred.
Camera was non-existent or malfunctioned. Guards were asleep and falsified monitor logs.
The perfect storm happened, while there's no way Epstein could've known all these details, and he managed to kill himself in that time window experiencing a neck fracture more commonly associated with strangulation.

You really have to suspend logic and dumb your mind down to state that suicide makes any sense here.
Especially considering that extremely powerful people (not just the Clintons btw, MANY powerful people including the Royal Family) would stress much less if he died.

I get it, it's scary to entertain the possibility that anyone (or a group) would be able to extra-judicially take out a high-profile prisoner in a federal facility, and then have a few select officials and the mainstream media cover it all up. I mean, that's impossible right? It would never happen, it's ludicrous to even suggest it! But the alternative is that the official story is correct......

This is a tough situation to be in for some.
 

TripSitterNZ

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its pretty easy to kill yourself in a prison cell i seen people wait for the guard do their rounds and slash their wrists to bleed out. Roll off the top bunk with sheets or even flush sheets with it around them to get force in. Jail cells do not prevent suicide and guards every prision frequently want prisoners to off themselves they are fucking sadistic psychos most of them.
 

JGrimez

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Many argue solitary confinement/lack of freedom would induce suicide.
Dude the point is they don't allow it to be possible for someone to actually commit suicide, even if they wanted to.
Especially someone high-profile, for obvious reasons.
Suicide watch means it's not physically possible for you to commit suicide, and if you attempt it, there are wardens monitoring surveillance cameras, and guards doing the rounds.
However in this case, all of those failsafes were not in place.
 

JGrimez

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its pretty easy to kill yourself in a prison cell i seen people wait for the guard do their rounds and slash their wrists to bleed out. Roll off the top bunk with sheets or even flush sheets with it around them to get force in. Jail cells do not prevent suicide and guards every prision frequently want prisoners to off themselves they are fucking sadistic psychos most of them.
It seems there are many people here who don't understand the concept of suicide watch and what it entails. It's not about watching someone commit suicide.

And if he was taken off of suicide watch and then given a bedsheet in which he was able to hang himself with, a couple weeks after attempting suicide, well that is suspicious and also indicates foul play.
 

Captain.Heroin

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You could easily ram your head into the concrete wall or steel bars several times on purpose and be done with it. It would be painful and undoubtedly not 100% foolproof and would make quite a bit of noise. But I doubt there'd be a real way to stop you. Even emergency opening the doors you could keep at it.

I think it is more likely the average people who committed suicide and the state found alternative explanations for to avoid huge lawsuits were not on society's radar. And anyone with an inch of social grace or wealth in this world bought justice. I find it more comforting to believe that larger individuals than myself didn't want this scumbag to buy his way out of any real sentence or justice and instead delivered what we might both call a swift Saudi-type execution.

And yes, of course he would have bought justice. If the glove doesn't fit you must acquit = then this guy could too. I don't care who did it, good for them. The truth will still likely come out over time.
 

Captain.Heroin

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its pretty easy to kill yourself in a prison cell i seen people wait for the guard do their rounds and slash their wrists to bleed out. Roll off the top bunk with sheets or even flush sheets with it around them to get force in. Jail cells do not prevent suicide and guards every prision frequently want prisoners to off themselves they are fucking sadistic psychos most of them.
Pretty much this. Why would people care? I imagine most will do their jobs and not 1 inch more and everyone goes home paid so who really gives a fuck? Only until the whole world is watching does the truth have to come out.
 

JessFR

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Due to the importance of the target.
If you find it plausible that Jeffrey Fucking Epstein didn't have a camera pointed to his cell, then I don't really know what to say to you.
Now if there was a camera pointing to his cell and it happened to malfunction at the exact same moment that guards fell asleep and Epstein managed to kill himself, and you still don't find that suspicious, then you should just forget about this story like you're supposed to and continue believing literally everything the mainstream media tells you.

The fact that nobody has managed to commit suicide in this place in 40 years, and Epstein was the first one to have been successful is suspicious enough.
Are you even willing to admit that he had dirt on extremely powerful people? Or do you consider that a conspiracy theory?
If there were a camera, and it malfunctioned at exactly the time he committed suicide, yes I'd consider that strong evidence of murder.

But by all indications there was no useful camera at all. Which I don't find implausible.

See, it's my belief that the government, and nearly everything managed by them, is highly mismanaged and poorly run. Such hideous incompetence as to let him kill himself and having done little to prevent it or monitor him isn't something I find at all implausible, because I already think nobody is better than the government at managing incompetent fuckups.
 

JGrimez

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You could easily ram your head into the concrete wall or steel bars several times on purpose and be done with it. It would be painful and undoubtedly not 100% foolproof and would make quite a bit of noise. But I doubt there'd be a real way to stop you. Even emergency opening the doors you could keep at it.
No it would be extremely difficult to do this and you'd have to be very lucky (or unlucky depending on how you look at it). You would easily KO yourself before managing to kill yourself.
Of course it's possible but you're most likely to wake up with a concussion and maybe some brain damage.
But yea I would actually buy this type of Jim Carrey "Liar Liar" attack as opposed to him managing to snap his neck with a prison bedsheet.

I think it is more likely the average people who committed suicide and the state found alternative explanations for to avoid huge lawsuits were not on society's radar. And anyone with an inch of social grace or wealth in this world bought justice. I find it more comforting to believe that larger individuals than myself didn't want this scumbag to buy his way out of any real sentence or justice and instead delivered what we might both call a swift Saudi-type execution.
This is a weird stance to take. Wouldn't you have preferred that the investigation continued and a lot of other guilty parties went down ?

The truth will still likely come out over time.
No, it probably won't. Epstein was the only currently named in the trial so it's been dropped. That's the point of him becoming dead now.
 

JGrimez

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But by all indications there was no useful camera at all. Which I don't find implausible.
This is also not plausible. To suggest that there was not one camera on Jeffrey Epstein. Ridiculous and suspicious ESPECIALLY because he's now dead and they can't prove to people what happened.

See, it's my belief that the government, and nearly everything managed by them, is highly mismanaged and poorly run. Such hideous incompetence as to let him kill himself and having done little to prevent it or monitor him isn't something I find at all implausible, because I already think nobody is better than the government at managing incompetent fuckups.
No, just no. This was Jeffrey Epstein. There's no excuses for incompetence in this case, but whatever you need to tell yourself...
 

Captain.Heroin

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This is a weird stance to take. Wouldn't you have preferred that the investigation continued and a lot of other guilty parties went down ?
There's no reason to convince me you can torture/extract the truth out of people. I'm glad we saw some degree of justice.

I wasn't cheer leading for investigations against Trump to begin with (I think they already have enough to move forward, or not, on impeachment...it's not looking like they're going to do it even if more information was served on a silver platter), I wasn't one of those McCarthy types (even though I am glad congress is doing *some* of its job, a lot of their efforts seem wasted with other serious issues going on domestically/int'l).
 

JessFR

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Well you're right that there's no excuse for it. But that's not the question, the question is is it plausible. And I think it's very plausible.

The government, and not just the government but also people in general, fuck up shit like this ALL THE TIME.

None of it surprises me and none of it strikes me as remotely implausible.

What strikes me as completely implausible is this highly ordered world of conspiracy theories where extraordinarily complicated plots regularly go off without a hitch (except for the fact that piles of internet conspiracy theorists unravel all of it).

In the world I live in however, people are fuckups. They screw one thing up after another. And the government is at the top of their fuck up game.
 

Captain.Heroin

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No, it probably won't. Epstein was the only currently named in the trial so it's been dropped. That's the point of him becoming dead now.
NY victims are already pursuing his estate. I think CRJS will move on in investigations. I'm sure someone is privately investigating this at the very least.
 

JGrimez

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There's no reason to convince me you can torture/extract the truth out of people.
It's called a plea bargain. You threaten a suspect with death or life imprisonment and they eventually agree to rat out their accomplices for a reduced sentence.

I'm glad we saw some degree of justice.
Considering that Epstein was they key that could have brought down a global elite child sex trafficking ring.... then no, this is no reason to celebrate.
 
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JGrimez

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The government, and not just the government but also people in general, fuck up shit like this ALL THE TIME.
Yeah but you're comparing a routine fuckup with the most important prisoner in the world right now. It's not the same and ignoring the importance of this situation is bizarre.

None of it surprises me and none of it strikes me as remotely implausible.
That's what you must make yourself believe in order to buy the official story. There's no rational, clear-thinking and honest person that would completely buy the official story.

What strikes me as completely implausible is this highly ordered world of conspiracy theories where extraordinarily complicated plots regularly go off without a hitch (except for the fact that piles of internet conspiracy theorists unravel all of it).
lol, yea so complicated. You pay off a few people and they take care of it. Notice how there was no footage? That's called a hitch. People are suspicious lol. Roughly 42% of the country believe it was murder. Would you say that it went off without a hitch? They were forced to make this move. They knew how it would look to the world but it's about risk management. Epstein talking was far worse than making an assassination look obvious. Only a negligible number or specific type of people believe the story as it is currently presented by the mainstream media.

In the world I live in however, people are fuckups. They screw one thing up after another. And the government is at the top of their fuck up game.
They're also at the top of the killing and assassination game. Government assassinations are nothing new and not even considered conspiracy theory, yet Epstein being assassinated seems too unlikely for you. I believe that is due to how brazen you'd perceive it to be:

"They'd never be able to do something so obvious and direct and get away with it. They'd never fool me!"
Well they did, and they do, and you've been fooled.

Also you probably refuse to believe in the grander scandal here, that prominent figures like Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew were involved with Epstein's child sex operation. So if all of this is considered too "out there" or scary for you and you ignore it, only then can I understand why you would consider assassinating Epstein too ludicrous to entertain as plausible.
 

Captain.Heroin

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And that's what disgusts me about the CRJS system. Rich people get away with sordid shit all the time (something that seems to grind your gears...) I think it's obvious if he spilled the beans or had the chance to, he would have amazing freedoms the average person in his shoes wouldn't have the opportunities to. This is not what I want out of a CRJS system. If a poor person gets put to death for 1 murder, or raping 1 child, surely this guy deserves a similar punishment? Why is the CRJS system set up deliberately to punish poor people / people of color worse than privileged Epsteins etc out there? Surely you're just as mad at the privileged "Clinton/Royal Family/Whoever I don't care" side who "put the hit out" in your mind??? For similar reasons?
 

Captain.Heroin

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Considering that Epstein was they key that could have brought down a global elite child sex trafficking ring.... then no, this is no reason to celebrate.
There have been other conspirators and his name brought up in his ring. I don't think it extends beyond that, especially from what has been said by the victims who are coming forth to court. I just think you should trust what the victims are saying man. If someone comes forward with a Clinton story or a Clinton/Clinton story or a Clinton/Bush/Bush/Obama freakshow pukefest of a tale then let's hear them out and go from there, right? I just think we should trust the victims in this case. Trust that the truth will come forward. Perhaps Epstein DYING will give MORE victims the strength to know they are safe in telling their tales. You never know what may happen down the line or currently be in the works.
 

Captain.Heroin

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It's called a plea bargain. You threaten a suspect with death or life imprisonment and they eventually agree to rat out their accomplices for a reduced sentence. This is really basic shit I shouldn't need to explain this to you.
Or, because you have tons of money, you order a hit on anyone willing to testify against you...? Dude serious like read about what people do to get out of a bid up state, they'll do 10x more crime and bribes just to get out of it. It's real. It happens. Victims are paid off, intimidated, or killed. It happens. I'm glad the victims are alive and he's not and he doesn't have a chance in making the official narriative disappear or buy off a judge or "if the glove does not fit you must acquit" type of ridiculous legal strategy that money *really can buy* in this world.
 

TripSitterNZ

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The victims have named people but the royal family is still defending that dick head looking cunt prince andrew i can only hope hes the next one to get arrested by the FBI and offs himself in the cell aswell. Epstein will be burning in hell (it does exist seen it formyself on dmt and acid) same with all those sick fucks involved. Epstein would of never narked he was the ring leader he wasen't making any plea deal this time he managed to get off the first time but this time he knew he was fucking screwed so he ended it and good riddins hellfire is alot worse than some walls of a cell.
 
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