Drugs around children?

[anfalicious]

I believe I covered most of your points off in my original post.

As I said, the choices I have made are not for everyone, I don't think most drug users educate themselves anywhere near enough to be trying to pass on responsible habits to their kids.

As we still do not know how alot of drugs really work (for example G) then how the hell can we readily give something to our kids when we have no idea of the harm that it may bring.

The answer is here btw.

 

[anna!]

Then again, I also think Steve Irwin was right taking his kids into a croc enclosure.

So do I, but not at 1 month of age. Babies that old can't even see a foot in front of their faces - I mean, if nothing else, he should have at least supported his baby's head! I think he should be gradually exposing his kids (i.e. not at feeding time in front of a live audience) over a period of time, starting at an age when they're actually aware of what's going on around them.

And I wasn't referring to your partner's son, the only times I've seen him it's either been the middle of the day (like, a totally straight, normal weekday) or early evening and then he's gone to bed.

 

[Urbanhog]

8) 8(

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

Anna, I totally agree with your point - - - I was appauled at the way he jiggled that little baby around.
Scary stuff.

 

[phase_dancer]

I my parents to death, and appreciate the wonderful way they brought me up, and exposed me to life. I respect their drug use and ecclectic beleif systems....yet I'm sad to see deep rooted issues from one mistake they made.

Your story really emphasises what I said about an open honest relationship in regards to these things. I believe being good parents often requires taking a humble stance when discussing the unique parts of their lifestyle to their kids. In regards to drug use, this also needs to accompany the "basic poisons warnings - next level for kids stuff" . Asking kids whether they know about important points makes it a pro-active approach without the glamorizing.

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT it looks as if your family upbringing provided a good basis for discussing such things with your parents. At some time of our lives we all have issues with our parents. It usually lasts until the purpose of your role becomes clearer; to understand, advise and guide these most closest of soul-mates. Parents generally do the best they feel they can for their kids. As you've heard here, many could follow a similar path to your parents thinking they are doing the thing best for their kids by sheltering or protecting through not revealing any involvement with drugs.

I imagine your realisation may have been quite embarrassing if your friends worked it out first. I hope you see the virtue in forgiveness and encouragement. You sound like you have very loving parents.


In saying our kids rarely displayed any curiosity with drugs even though they were exposed to people using often enough, an incident did happen when our eldest was six which resulted in us explaining everything to this smart and very conscientious little man.

My girl's father had our boy for the weekend. A nasty phone call from him (very straight nth Qld catholic raised man) said he knew this and that about me and pot. He'd basically put 2 & 2 together and came up with 10.

After talking with our boy, it was obvious he'd been quizzed by his grandfather (who didn't like me at all in those days). Our poor boy had innocently told him all he knew with some guesses thrown in, not realising for one moment what was happening.

We knew there and then we had to explain some rather in-depth issues to a six year old. Tricky stuff at the time. But it made him really smart and removed any guilt he may have suffered by feeling responsible for the family break. It took nearly 6 years before the old man would talk to me again, but we all get on like a house on fire now. There's never any hostility at any family gathering. The old boy and I have story telling in common. If you tell a good tale you can slip anything into the story. He's so educated today

As our boy went through school, he seemed the last person anyone would think knew about the intricacies of drug issues. As such, without direct contact, he knew of everything that was going on in the neighbourhood and schools.

So if you intend to use drugs, honesty, and being on the level with your kids is important, even at a young age. It does place an unnecessary burden of responsibility on your kids, but that should be summed up if and when you decide to use drugs in the period of at least 18-20 years you'll be raising kids.

Therefore it should be carefully considered : Is a completely honest picture better both in the short term as my story shows, as well as in the longer term as CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT 's situation suggests?

Telling your child you do something illegal and then expecting them to behave themselves may seem a difficult task, but parenting is a skill learned for years before this becomes necessary. Having a plan in the back of your mind on how to deal with any such situation, should it arise, means you shouldn't be caught out or have to impart to your kids any unnecessary sense of distrust.

Try to keep in mind CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT, that everyone learns things about their parents as they grow older. I'm continually amazed at what my supposedly conservative mother reveals she got up to in her younger days. Should she have told me some of things earlier? Perhaps, but what does it really matter, it's all sharing and ultimately brings you closer if you allow it.

 

[anfalicious]

Telling your child you do something illegal and then expecting them to behave themselves may seem a difficult task, but parenting is a skill learned for years before this becomes necessary.

That's why it's important to teach kids how to work out what's right and wrong for themselves, teach them how to think of themselves. I see so many people who live their lives and base all of their personal rules and morals around whether something is legal or illegal or whether some phoney religion (YES THATS FUCKING YOU CATHOLICISM) tells them they can and can't. They never ever stop and ask themselves "Why?".

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

Phase_Dancer thank's so much for reading, and for your story.

I have almost forgiven my parents. It's a deep seated hurt that I harbour, more about the trust and openness issue than anything else.
As I mentioned in my post, I'm totally at ease with the fact that they used around me and my brother / sister.
I'm even OK with the idea that I was perpetually stoned a great deal of my childhood.



I think you did a wonderful thing with your [then] 6 year old.
I can assure you, even though I don't know you personally, that your honesty at that time will be valued more than you know.
Just having the faith and decency to be open and honest about your drug use, if it's warrented [ie: if the child is in some way involved , or witnesses it] is a wonderful wonderful thing.

I'm not saying people should tell their children about every drug experience they have had =pictures parents sitting down their three year olds and describing an LSD trip at age 16= but explaining current drug related issues is, in my opinion, vital to keeping a true relationship.

Woah...=checks word length of posts in this thread=
Looks as if I've found a topic I'm passionate about.

 

[onetwothreefour]

Originally posted by friskk
I trust alot of you may be responsible in their drug use but a hell of a lot of people are not. Everyday we read and see people who have asked their kids to sell or pickup drugs for them. How the hell can this be acceptable? It's not and those people should be fuckin locked up!!

right...but what about the people who *are* responsible? are you somehow trying to argue that just because there are a lot irresponsible drug users out there that even the *responsible* ones should entirely stop their drug use when they have children too? fuck, the example about the kids selling or picking up drugs is a bad one -obviously- but like you said, there are plenty of responsible drug takers around...fuck, check out most of this site!

All of you are talking about your kids experiencing something which you chose to do. No one forced you to take drugs and it was a concious decision you made to go out and explore what drugs can offer you. Don't you see, that by showing your children that it is ok to take drugs you are also teaching them that they could take drugs aswell.

duh. are you reading these posts? like i said, i will a) let my children decide (at the right age, no earlier than eighteen though, i would *hope* ) if they want to take drugs and b) encourage them to educate themselves about whatever they want to ingest. my drug use, thus far, has been full of amazing, eye-opening, enjoyable experiences, and if my children want to pursue similar experiences then i will fully encourage them to do so.

just because *you* have the attitude, apparently, that "drugs are bad, mmkay," doesn't mean the rest of us share the same point of view? i think most drugs -to a person with a stable mind (and when i have children i hope to bring them up in a stable environment, and to nurture their intelligence and maturity)- are a positive thing, and see no reason as to why they should be denied from such a person.

Not everyone is suitable to take drugs and the problem is that alot of people who are not suitable do take them.

true - this is why some people should, and some people should not be afforded the opportunity. if i don't feel like my children are mature enough to be doing so, i will not encourage it. sure, they might still do it (i can't *control* them), but at least they'll be educated, and they might even -hopefully- have enough respect for me so as to wait until they realise that they have matured. and this isn't (despite what most people think) beyond all teenagers - i didn't do any drug stronger than alcohol until i was eighteen, because i didn't think i was mature, or educated, enough to cope with them before that.

Openly taking drugs in front of your children also indirectly shows them that the law should not be adhered to.
...
Kids must be taught that the law is important and that it is there for a valid reason. Blatant disregard of the law, especially by parents is really irresponsible.

what's this "must" bullshit? that's not an opinion - you're trying to somehow pass that off as fact. in MY OPINION, much of the laws which we live by are total bullshit. i do not endorse or government, and i do not endorse many of the laws that were developed by previous governments - obviously this needs to be looked at in regards to each specific matter, but at the very least i would hope to raise my children to question authority - just because someone in charge says it's correct doesn't neccessarily make it so.

If children are exposed to drugs, does that also mean you may allow them to experience them? As we still do not know how alot of drugs really work (for example G)

well, it seems pretty damn certain that ghb is pretty much non-toxic (for both the brain and the liver). i'm sure p_d will pull me up if i'm wrong, but all that i've read indicates this. regardless, this is where education comes in. i *know* that drugs such as meth and mdma are causing damage to my brain (hopefully not too much ), but i make an educated and informed decision to take them anyway - as long as i keep my use minimal, i feel that the positives outweigh the negatives. if i have children, they will grow up educated and informed also, and if they decide that the potential risks are too great, then that's fine. if they think otherwise, then that's fine too - at least they will *know* what they're getting into.

sorry, friskk, that i've taken your particular post as an example, it just got to me a little. as long as you can acknowledge that much of what you said is *only just opinion* - and that not everyone is going to think the same way - you have no need to take it personally

 

[onetwothreefour]

(oh and btw, fantastic thread, everyone who's contributed -there's been some *really* good posts here.)

 

[shakra]

^^^ I agree, it is a great thread.

Shame a few people are taking some comments personally.. but perhaps they may be experiencing some guilt, or why jump to defence so vehemently. (Moving right along.. I dont want to incite further debate as this comment is NOT aimed at anyone.. just a general observation )

I am passionate about this issue as I have seen first hand what CAN happen.

Yes that doesnt necessarily mean that it ALWAYS WILL happen.. but if we are talking about our kids, or our friends kids, or any kids for that matter I pose this question to you all -

IS IT WORTH TAKING THE RISK?

We are all (human beings) so extaordinarily unique, you really never know what the outcome is going to be. There are too many tangibles.

Once the damage is done, it is very difficult (if at all possible) to reverse.

Especially with strong willed people. Our personalities are intact at birth, the development of our personalities is environmental and learned behaviours.

Thats just what I think from personal experience.


Just one more thing... due to the passion that people feel about the topic of "drugs/kids/etc" can we keep on the topic...

I've started a Steve Irwin thread for any of you with something to say about him and/or the latest hype surrounding him...

 

[Dj ScAtTeRfAcE]

Originally posted by doofqueen
Well actually i think this is part of the issue. i think the environment does make a big difference. If the child is being properly cared for and supervised and doesn't see or know about the drug use and is not affected by it it DOES make the difference.

When a child as young as three can point out if their mummy/daddy/family friend is high what makes you believe that they don’t notice that others are high? They may not understand that the person is on drugs, but they still understand that the person is not behaving in a way normal for an adult (unless of course that behaviour is normal for an adult to them).

Children notice the smallest details, to some it will become an issue (and often one they won't speak of), to others it won’t but you can’t say they don’t know something’s up. My point is you can't guarantee that they don’t know and for me that’s why I won’t put my child in that situation.

I’m curious though; do you believe exposure in a doof environment is less harmful than exposure in a home environment (and why)?

What exactly is normal behaviour? So many adults neglect kid's presence because of their 'maturity'. I always felt very intimidated by many adults who were acting 'normal' simply because they are on a totally different level then you, so serious, so stubborn, so adult-like. At doofs it's great to see kids playing with adults, becuase so many adults just let it all go and get back to their kid like self. I definialty agree there is a wrong way to take kids to doofs, and some parties clearly aren't for kids, but some of the day parties i've been to i have had a great time watching kids play with adults and have a good time

peace

 

[anna!]

in MY OPINION, much of the laws which we live by are total bullshit.

That may be so, but the law is still the law. I'd hate for my children to jeapordise their futures as free human beings because I decided not to teach them what was legally right and wrong. I might not agree with some of the laws that this country imposes, but I'm not going to have my kids end up in jail because my nose was out of joint.

I do think that teaching our kids the way the legal system works and what's legal and what isn't is important. We can also teach them that we don't agree with some laws for whatever reason.

 

[onetwothreefour]

^^^ i won't teach my kids to disobey the law - what i'll do is teach them to question everything that they see around them, and make decisions for themselves. if this means staying within the relevant laws, good, if not, so be it

i think, in re-reading your second paragraph, that we actually hold the same point of view - i don't want people to break the law *just because* i just want them to be able to make their own decisions

 

[anfalicious]

Anna! I honestly believe that by bringing up a child to be an intelligent, thinking human being will keep them out of jail before teaching them to do what the law says. Laws are only there because most humans are unable to respect themselves and others.

 

[onetwothreefour]

^^^ exactly my thoughts.

 

[kryalkastleE]

this is such a good thread, i have really enjoyed reading everyones opinion on this matter!


*again no personal attacks*


i myself cannot judge or say what i *might* do when i have children because by the time i have them it may be a totally different story...my opinion as i see it now is that i don't think that it is okay to use drugs around children or even people who are not used to being exposed to drugs....

my own experience with this has taught me something - i was at a party where pretty much everyone was off their heads on various drugs, someone turned up that had never been exposed to that sort of environment before and was horrified and shocked at what they saw, which was fair enough, they had never seen people with eyes the size of saucers and people getting high from balloons....from that i formed the opinion that people that choose not to be exposed to drugs or have not been before *unless they are a first time person who WANTS to be there* should not have to be because it is their choice not to be in that environment. i believe that this relates to children as well. because they are young and do not really have a choice where they go, they should not be exposed to something that might scare them or alarm them....

now this is not a direct attack on doofs at all, i cannot judge as i have never been to one, but if drugs are being used and people are on drugs ANYWHERE where a child has to be i think that this might scare them as some people cannot control the way they look and act on drugs. i feel that if this person that turned up at this party, a full grown adult who was 20 years old, and was scared of the way people looked that this would indefinately scare a small child, no matter what age they were. i think the same with alcohol, my father often got very drunk when i was younger and still did right up until when i turned 18 *and he got a very big wake up call* and he used to drive me around drunk in the car, i hated him for that, endangering his childs life because he CHOSE to drink....now this is not only irresponsible but i hated him for who he was when he was drunk, and i think that parents have to consider also that not everyone turns into a happy friendly person on drugs (although u might think you are) . Some people are horrible on drugs + alcohol and your child will see that you ARE a different person, even if you think you are being more fun or happier.
(classic visual example of what im talking about : the movie 28 days with sandra bullock - when she has flashbacks of her mum....)

*doofqueen- your child seems to be happy and well adjusted, and if you believe that the people you doof with would not scare him or harm him in any way relation to drugs then you are the person who knows best! Take this whole thread in your stride and keep raising your child the way that YOU see fit

sorry if this post is a bit jumbled, i tried to type as fast as my brain was thinking, so much stuff to say!

 

[anfalicious]

sorry if this post is a bit jumbled, i tried to type as fast as my brain was thinking, so much stuff to say!

That's how this thread makes me feel too

One thing a lot of people are saying in their stories about their parents and drugs/alcohol is the impact how they behaved had on them. I think that's an important point, behavior. I have a smoke and sit down and watch cartoons or play with my partners boy, I think that the memories he has of those moments will be much different that if I was passed out on the floor. It all comes back to what I've been saying about most people shouldn't be doing drugs or drinking around their kids. I don't believe that most people should do drugs or drink full stop, too many people just cannot handle it.

Sure, I may not be able to jump in a car if something happens, but I would never allow myself get to the point where I couldn't handle an emergency. There is no reason that I would HAVE to drive anyway. If there was a medical emergency, I'm better off calling an ambulance anyway.

I think getting a bit bent and hanging out playing with my kids is a lot less harmful than putting them in front of the TV whilst I do other things, and I'm yet to hear any argument that could compel me otherwise.

 

[doofqueen]

When a child as young as three can point out if their mummy/daddy/family friend is high what makes you believe that they don’t notice that others are high? They may not understand that the person is on drugs, but they still understand that the person is not behaving in a way normal for an adult (unless of course that behaviour is normal for an adult to them).

Children notice the smallest details, to some it will become an issue (and often one they won't speak of), to others it won’t but you can’t say they don’t know something’s up. My point is you can't guarantee that they don’t know and for me that’s why I won’t put my child in that situation.

I’m curious though; do you believe exposure in a doof environment is less harmful than exposure in a home environment (and why)?

Well maybe that certain child of three has not been raised with drugs actually being hidden? Is this a specific child you are talking about or is it a hypothertical? Like i said already i don't get fucked up when my child is around wether it's at home, at a doof or elsewhere.

If my child ever did notice i would know about it because we have a close and open relationship and he knows he can ask me any question and i won't judge him for it because i have taught him that the world is not only a playground you can play in but it's one you can explore in too and learn anything you want about it. I've taught him to research and seek sources, if he is interested in a topic...say example one of his last ones was religion, i will give him my opinion but make sure he knows that there are other perceptions out there and that he should take in account that we all live and think differently and getting the right answer sometimes will never come about....although getting your own opinion based on other peoples answers ...that ones easy

He will go and ask his friends, granparents, teachers, read books in the libary , search the net and read newspapers to get more 'facts' and opinions before he gets to his own conclusion...ahhhhh free thinking....such a beautiful thing hey...pity most adults aren't like my kid in that aspect...and if that sounds like bragging or sounding high and mighty i really couldn't give a shit. As far as i'm concerned my son IS more aware and open minded to alot of adults i know.

So no i don't think exposure to drugs in a doof environment is better or worse than a home environment. Basically AGAIN it comes down to what they know and see and how much they are being looked after.

 

[doofqueen]

Everyday we read and see people who have asked their kids to sell or pickup drugs for them. How the hell can this be acceptable? It's not and those people should be fuckin locked up!!

All of you are talking about your kids experiencing something which you chose to do. No one forced you to take drugs and it was a concious decision you made to go out and explore what drugs can offer you. Don't you see, that by showing your children that it is ok to take drugs you are also teaching them that they could take drugs aswell. Not everyone is suitable to take drugs and the problem is that alot of people who are not suitable do take them.

If children are exposed to drugs, does that also mean you may allow them to experience them? As we still do not know how alot of drugs really work (for example G) then how the hell can we readily give something to our kids when we have no idea of the harm that it may bring. It surprises, scares and saddens me when I see you kids (15 years old) popping e's and other narcotics like they were lollies.. do they really have any idea of the damage being caused to them. Their bodies are still developing and they should try and avoid these chemicals.

to the 1st paragraph.... yes i agree, these people should be locked up aswell but it's not to say that everyone who uses drugs wants their children too and then will make them a drug dealer

to the second paragraph...no i don't think that by using drugs we are showing our children that it's ok...who says that if a parent uses they are actually forces their chld to use drugs aswell? And don't you see that when you hide drugs from your kids they will still find out about them and possibly try them anyway? most likely in an unsafe and uneducated environment because they are curious about it and because it's been hidden they think they can't talk to their parents about it which will lead to UNSAFE drug use? Seriously man...think about it...drugs are everywhere, they will find out about them through friends, family and the media and with the WRONG influences things can really get fucked up...do you honestly think that as a parent if you hide drug use that your kids will be clueless to it as they get older and mature ...not bloody likely IMO

to the 3rd paragragh...AGAIn....who the hell is saying that people that use drugs actually offer them to their kids? yes their bodies and minds are developing and that's exactly why any parent in their right mind wouldn't allow it. I don't like seeing 15 year olds popping 5 pills a night anymore then anyone else...seriously man...think about what your saying hey 8(

ps...sorry for trh double post but i do't know how to make multiple quotes in one post. If someone can show me that would be appreciated...something like

enter quote her

would that be right? i'm just guessing...i haven't actually tried it yet 8)

pps...after actually reading that ^^ i realise that i do know how it's done so will do that in the future...ooooo i'm getting so clever with all this cyber stuff

 

[BA]

...no i don't think that by using drugs we are showing our children that it's ok...

You don't think that a child who looks up to their parent high on drugs won't think "Since mommy and daddy do it, it must be okay.." ?