Drugs around children?

[*sunflower*]

Its a lot easier for you Haste to have a social life than Doofqueen though yeah? She has sole custody of her son whereas you have access visits.

Just a thought.

 

[quiet roar]

I know someone who gave their 12 year old girl a pill. At the time the kid said she stole it.. but 2 years down the track I discovered that the father gave it to her.

I think this is DISGUSTING.

WTF? Nobody said anything about giving children drugs. And frankly, the implication that this relates to children being around people who are on drugs really pisses me off. Fuck off!!!

 

[aunty establishment]

No need to flame, quiet roar. It does have something to do with the topic, because if the father didn't have ecstasy, he wouldn't have been able to give it to his daughter.

I don't think anyone's saying that everyone who takes drugs insists that their children get in on the act too, that would just be ridiculous. But it does happen, particularly when older brothers/sisters use. My first drug experiences (age 13) were all thanks to the supply of friends' parents and siblings.

 

[phase_dancer]

i may seem a little defensive but from what most people have said in this thread can you really blame me? I understand where everone is coming from and i respect their views on it (parents or otherwise) I just wish the same respect back is all ....

Although I've never met you doofqueen I have read many of your posts. I think you've got your shit together. I'd even say you're one of the special girls who appears to balance their social life and role as a parent quite well. If you were too active socially you wouldn't have the time to post on BL as frequently now would you Your level of sincerity in your posts also suggests to me that if you did think you had probs in this area, you'd be asking for help.

Any solo parent who does it from such a young age deserves something special IMO. I can fully understand any wish to make up for those years given to the worthy cause of motherhood. Enjoy your belated teen years forever, and don't take it from anyone who doesn't at least share a common situation!

ya wrk doofqueen, keep up your great contributions to social.

phase_dancer

 

[anna!]

quiet roar, that's the second time you've attacked someone personally in this thread. I understand that it's something you feel strongly about, but if you keep attacking people, I'm going to have to give you a warning. Don't resort to slinging matches to get your point across.

 

[quiet roar]

It does have something to do with the topic, because if the father didn't have ecstasy, he wouldn't have been able to give it to his daughter.

You can't be serious!


And anna! many of these comments are attacks, thinly veiled as opinions. I simply chose to be straight forward rather than play political word games.

What is more offensive, being told to fuck off, or being compared to someone who gives children drugs?

 

[PsychoKitten]

Originally posted by quiet roar
Again, let me reiterate I do not do drugs in front of my children. Nor do I condone them being around people who are off their face. All those things you mentioned psychokitten, I agree with.

Aye, I was not saying you weren’t.

But I do not agree that when you have children you cannot do drugs.

I have never said as much – what I have said is that I would not do drugs in front of them or subject them to an environment where people were on drugs.

And in response to your previous post of "how do you know?" I have been smoking the same way for many many moons, so I know exactly how I will be effected. And if it's a case of coming home when coming down off a pill, again I know how I am before I face my kids. Not to mention some of my warmest moments with my kids have been Saturday mornings in the park or backyard, with the mdma residuals still in my system.

I have no doubt; it is still not a situation I would want to put myself in.

Originally posted by *sunflower*
I will agree that children can inherit (either through environment or genetics) inappropriate parenting behaviour, e.g. parents who use alcohol/drugs/violence as a coping mechanism can pass this down to their children.

I whole heartedly agree here, I believe a tendency to (ab)use drugs can be passed on as a behavioural pattern, we see evidence of this (on a much larger scale) in abused children growing to abuse their own children, whilst drug use is certainly not held on the same level as abusing your children (well at least not anywhere except in the eyes of the law) I do believe that taking drugs in front of your children sets a behavioural pattern that is not easy to break.

Originally posted by doofqueen
now see with the trippers thing i'm assuming your talking about doofs again.

You would be wrong. People do take acid outside a doof environment. It was an example, one I chose because people can easily relate to. People on acid aren’t rational, in control or readily responsible for their judgement and attitude. The simple fact that they are not in full control of themselves prevents me from even thinking about putting a child in that environment.

have you been to a doof? because if you have you wouldn't be so judgmental hey. doofs are not based soley on drugs. They are based on music, freedom, individuality, community, peace and love (as hippy shit ramble as that sounds) Drugs that are used are not in the open. People are not that fucked up.

You have got to be kidding? Your view on doofs is a little rosy-eyed. The amount of drug (ab)use that goes on at doofs is no different from anywhere else, there may be a higher rate of people on acid or mushies (which you seem to consider a lesser evil) but there is no way that people are less fucked up.

What about parents who use presription drugs all the time and get hooked on those? anti-depressants, steroids, valium , pain killers and what not?

Anti depressants (whilst I vehemently disagree with the way they are currently used like candies and the balm to all problems) can often improve a parents relationship with a child – nobody wants a mother/father who is chronically depressed. As for the rest – an addict no matter what their poison is still an addict. I certainly wouldn’t agree to have my child around someone who was doped up on benzos or painkillers all the time, I watched my grandmother (who I was not allowed to stay with alone, nor did we visit often) battle valium addiction and can remember exactly what she looked like and knowing it wasn’t normal. If I can help it I won’t have my children around high people – any kind of high.

Originally posted by Dj ScAtTeRfAcE
She told me that he had just got out of a mental hospital, was meant to be spending the day with his kids but was running around trying to score pot.

That is quite possibly the saddest thing I have heard in a while Putting scoring pot ahead of time with his kids

Originally posted by quiet roar

I know someone who gave their 12 year old girl a pill. At the time the kid said she stole it.. but 2 years down the track I discovered that the father gave it to her.

I think this is DISGUSTING.

WTF? Nobody said anything about giving children drugs. And frankly, the implication that this relates to children being around people who are on drugs really pisses me off. Fuck off!!!

You know – it is related, a follow on question from would/do you do drugs in front of your kids? is would/do you give your children drugs?

From the post quoted in yours:

Originally posted by shakra
The whole reason this fucked up situation came about was due to people discussing and using in front of the kid in the first place.

Looks related to me Let’s face it, it does happen (hopefully not often). Nowhere in that post was the comparison made between people who take drugs and are parents to people who give drugs to their kids.

 

[anna!]

Originally posted by quiet roar
And anna! many of these comments are attacks, thinly veiled as opinions. I simply chose to be straight forward rather than play political word games.

What is more offensive, being told to fuck off, or being compared to someone who gives children drugs?

A thinly veiled opinion is still an opinion. Telling people to fuck off is nothing more than throwing a tantrum. Please try to at least pretend to be learning and discussing.

 

[phase_dancer]

You have got to be kidding? Your view on doofs is a little rosy-eyed. The amount of drug (ab)use that goes on at doofs is no different from anywhere else, there may be a higher rate of people on acid or mushies (which you seem to consider a lesser evil) but there is no way that people are less fucked up.

No, but at probably 90% of the doofs I've attended, there's been a greater % of straight people than at any typical rave and large club events. Perhaps this is reflective of some parents having more of a responsible attitude around kids, but as I often hear it, many people are going to doofs for things other than just drugs.

And as for leaving kids home; It would be like going to the circus without them. I'd never forgive myself and neither would they

 

[*sunflower*]

Just regarding doofs - I grew up in Northern NSW and went to heaps of festivals and markets etc as a child where quite a bit of pot smoking and maybe a small amount of tripping was enjoyed by some people and it never affected me. I've also been to a few doofs and the smaller ones are very similar to the places I went to as a kid, in that the people there are very environmentally conscious, loving, happy and generally child friendly. I remember heaps of face painting, yummy food, music, other kids to play with, toys and places to swim. I don't remember anyone being out of it, completely fucked up or acting scary the way my parents' parties used to go sometimes.

I have really happy memories of those times actually so I have to agree with DQ and phase_dancer on this one - these environments are very different to a rave. Raves attract clubbers after all - having been both a clubber and a doofer on a fairly regular basis over the years I think I can tell the difference.

Anyway guys, let's not take anything personally. This thread started off so well!

 

[quiet roar]

A thinly veiled opinion is still an opinion.

Has there been one of my posts that you have understood, or not misinterpreted?

I said it was an attack thinly veiled as an opinion.

Don't bother replying, I give up.

 

[PsychoKitten]

Originally posted by phase_dancer
No, but at probably 90% of the doofs I've attended, there's been a greater % of straight people than at any typical rave and large club events. Perhaps this is reflective of some parents having more of a responsible attitude around kids, but as I often hear it, many people are going to doofs for things other than just drugs.

Aye, there are likely a higher percentage of people who are straight (most probably thanks to the parents who don't get high in front of thier kids and enjoy the whole experience) but it still does not change the fact that there are people just as fucked up as there are at raves, clubs, pubs, underground events, or house parties - you can't totally dismiss that.

This isn't a doof vs non-doof event thread, I don't think it matters what kind of environment the exposure to drug use takes place.

We all set standards for our behaviour that really make sense only to ourselves and as long as we're fine with our own decisions it doesn't matter at all what other people think.

*grin* and y'know at those circuses - the tiger tamers just have to be doing coke - there's not much that would make a normal person put their head inside a tigers mouth

 

[doofqueen]

This isn't a doof vs non-doof event thread, I don't think it matters what kind of environment the exposure to drug use takes place.

Well actually i think this is part of the issue. i think the environment does make a big difference. If the child is being properly cared for and supervised and doesn't see or know about the drug use and is not affected by it it DOES make the difference.

Thankyou for all the kind words and thoughts people have said to me in this thread. It's very much appreciated

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

I approach this topic with a very personal viewpoint...

You see, I grew up in a household that was full to the brim with drugs.
My parents were and are [please note I am not being to put anyone in a labelled box here] free thinking, alternative, peace loving hippy-type creatures. :D
Much like myself.

They brought me up with access to a plethora of religions, ideas, art, philosiphy, etc, as well as a house full of the aforementioned drugs.

My parents smoked weed heavilly during my, and my siblings childhoods, and would actually chose to smoke it with their friends, around us most times.
I can remember feeling calm and in a majickal fog most of the time [I can see that was now due to passive smoking], and I loved the smell associated with the sessions...

Also, my parents were fairly heavilly involved in LSD use, and would trip quite regularly, sometimes around the children, othertimes removed.

It wasn't until I was 16 years of age that I was old enough to understand, and found out the truth - - - the fact that my parents had been using drugs in my home around me.

I found out by chance, a friend was smoking..I mentioned how it smelt like my parents cigarettes..and how much I loved the smell.
I was laughed at, and explained that it was marajuana.

I felt hurt and betrayed for a long time after that - I still haven' t completely forgiven my parents for keeping this information from me, and leaving me to be rudely awakened to the truth.
It's not that I disagree with their usage - - - in a lot of ways I agree and condone the ways they acted, drug usage and all, in bringing my siblings and myself up........but I still have issued with them not making it known to us.


I my parents to death, and appreciate the wonderful way they brought me up, and exposed me to life.
I respect their drug use and ecclectic beleif systems....yet I'm sad to see deep rooted issues from one mistake they made.

 

[PsychoKitten]

Originally posted by doofqueen
Well actually i think this is part of the issue. i think the environment does make a big difference. If the child is being properly cared for and supervised and doesn't see or know about the drug use and is not affected by it it DOES make the difference.

When a child as young as three can point out if their mummy/daddy/family friend is high what makes you believe that they don’t notice that others are high? They may not understand that the person is on drugs, but they still understand that the person is not behaving in a way normal for an adult (unless of course that behaviour is normal for an adult to them).

Children notice the smallest details, to some it will become an issue (and often one they won't speak of), to others it won’t but you can’t say they don’t know something’s up. My point is you can't guarantee that they don’t know and for me that’s why I won’t put my child in that situation.

I’m curious though; do you believe exposure in a doof environment is less harmful than exposure in a home environment (and why)?

 

[anfalicious]

My partner has a nearly 3 year old son. For his whole life thus far he has been around when we've been doing things, more often than not asleep, or in another room away from people (he's also probably one of the kids anna referred to in her first post and I think kitty's been around as well). I have, up to this point, been more worried about making someone else uncomfortable, so that's why I've shut him off from it as much as possible. However, on new years eve we had a party at our place, and due to unforseen circumstances we had to have the boy at our place from around 11am on NYD. I decided that seeings as it was his house, I'd let him come out and play with all the other kids and if they didn't like it, well they can all go elsewhere. What he got was a day spent full of people talking to him, playing with him, making him the centre of attention, he absolutely loved it. I at no point felt there was any danger to him, as he was very well supervised by myself and my partner (better than he is at any other time actually). I was brought up in a family that loved to party. I have been exposed to big parties and drinking my entire life (i pretty much grew up in pubs). I was also raised a Catholic, went to church every sunday and 13 years of Catholic schooling. On one hand I was brought up being shown how to have fun RESPONSIBLY, something that has kept me in good stead my whole life. On the other I had an oppressive religion telling me that anything that is fun is evil and that I need to go and pray if I do it.

No prizes for which one has caused me the most mental and emotional damage.

I would rather see my kids brought up around people who use drugs responsibly, who have no problems talking openly about their emotions and their spirituality, than to have them brought up by pedophillic priests. I know I'm drawing a long and obscure bow with this analogy, but the point I'm making is you can never predict how things will turn out, and the best intentions can lead to the worst result.

I honestly believe that drugs are a good thing, and could be a salvation of man kind if only people were taught how to use them. Mind altering substances and the places/people associated with them, have made me the person I am (and I really, really love who I am), so I can't see any problems with exposing my kids to this culture. AS mentioned before nearly every single person I've met who had "hippy" drug using parents (as opposed to junky drug using parents), have grown up to be better adjusted and more emotionally sound individuals than those brought up with the overbearing "just say no" parents. Not to mention they are all more responsible drug users.

I don't believe that parenting should be about telling your child who to be or how to live their life. I plan to guide my children, and rather tell them right from wrong, teach them the skills they need to work out right from wrong themselves.

Then again, I also think Steve Irwin was right taking his kids into a croc enclosure.

So, go ahead, abuse me all you like if you want to, like everyone here is saying, it's only YOUR opinion. I'm already well resigned to the fact that my children are not going to be like other children, but that doesn't really bother me, because I tend to think that most people are stupid, ignorant arseholes anyway, so if he grows up different to that, good.

I'm not saying that every parent should have the opinions I should, in fact, most shouldn't, most people aren't willing to devote the time in their kids emotional and spiritual development that is required for this to be effective. But, I'm going to live my life how I live my life and as long as I love my kids and always have their wellbeing first and foremost in my mind, then I don't really see any problems with it. I'm yet to see any studies that show that raising your kids the 'normal' western way creates better adults (in fact from what I can see, it's the exact opposite).

If you think that this is selfish and it's imposing my beliefs on my children, then don't send your kids to church. At least I'll let my kids make their own choices.

 

[*sunflower*]

Then again, I also think Steve Irwin was right taking his kids into a croc enclosure.

Just out of curiosity - why? I don't agree by the way, I think Steve Irwin's a prat.

I think your post was perfectly eloquent and I enjoyed reading it. You sound like an emotionally sound individual yourself.

Cheers.

 

[anfalicious]

For all the same reasons he's said. These are not normal children, they are not going to be brought up like you and me are. They need to learn from DAY 1 how to behave around crocs or they are going to get eaten, pure and simple. All these people saying the kid was in danger are the morons, look at the guy, he's quite obviously not a fool (he has created an empire remember), he obviously loves his kids and it could be debated that he knows more about crocs, and definately more about being around crocs than anyone in the world. So, if he says it wasn't dangerous, I'll take his opinion over some volvo driving soccer mum down at coles. I have yet to hear anyone who handles crocs (or any dangerous animal for that matter) come out and say what he has done is wrong.

That said, it doesn't mean that he isn't a prat, and that doing it in front of cameras wasn't a publicity stunt, but dangerous? I doubt it.

 

[CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT]

Anafalicious, I agree totally with you ideas on Steve Irwin, and have been pleading his case to many friends and relatives all week........

The only issue I have with this media frenzy, is the fact that it the display in public.

As it's contstantly mentioned, most of us don't think very much of the general populace, and I'm no exception.
My concern is that ignorant people will take on a copy-cat stance, in more than just principal.
I would just cringe if stupid people started danging their children in front of dangerous animals claiming it was helping their childs development.

Props to Steve for having this free-thinking attitude, and doing the best for his children, considering their lifestyle, but my plea is to protect the ignorant and stupid public.
I think it was quite a harsh wake-up call for Steve, about his almost instant public position.

 

[friskk]

My God - I cannot believe how many people openly argue that kids and drugs are even remotely acceptable.

There is no way in hell that I would ever expose my children or any child for that matter to things like drugs.

I'm not saying drugs are evil or the bane of society but to alot of people they are. I'm sure 'some' people may like being addicted to heroin, meth or cocaine but for the vast majority of addicts who have all been shunned from society for their choices would probably wish that they had never been offered these drugs to begin with.

I think alot of you have to realise that drugs MAY BE addictive and MAY lead to a life of suffering as they do whatever they can for their next hit. I trust alot of you may be responsible in their drug use but a hell of a lot of people are not. Everyday we read and see people who have asked their kids to sell or pickup drugs for them. How the hell can this be acceptable? It's not and those people should be fuckin locked up!!

All of you are talking about your kids experiencing something which you chose to do. No one forced you to take drugs and it was a concious decision you made to go out and explore what drugs can offer you. Don't you see, that by showing your children that it is ok to take drugs you are also teaching them that they could take drugs aswell. Not everyone is suitable to take drugs and the problem is that alot of people who are not suitable do take them.

Openly taking drugs in front of your children also indirectly shows them that the law should not be adhered to. Kids look to adults and especially their parents as role models. They don't really understand what is right or wrong and they look to adults to show them exactly what is correct.
Kids must be taught that the law is important and that it is there for a valid reason. Blatant disregard of the law, especially by parents is really irresponsible.

If children are exposed to drugs, does that also mean you may allow them to experience them? As we still do not know how alot of drugs really work (for example G) then how the hell can we readily give something to our kids when we have no idea of the harm that it may bring. It surprises, scares and saddens me when I see you kids (15 years old) popping e's and other narcotics like they were lollies.. do they really have any idea of the damage being caused to them. Their bodies are still developing and they should try and avoid these chemicals.