Drinking while on subutex

[Opiatehell85]

Right so this is really weird, I was wondering if anyone has the same problem, I'm on detox using subutex 10mg daily, have been on this dosage for seven weeks, I went out yesterday as an annual treat with my partner, no kids, few drinks, few bets on the horses, was a fun day and I drank so much alcohol, but what gets me is I couldn't get drunk, I felt as though I'd had a drink but was feeling very sober considering I'd had about a bottle of vodka! I've noticed this at home too when I've had the odd drink, spoke to my key worker she said I'm the first to say that upto now, but was wondering on anyone else's experience, do subs block all happy, pleasure emotions? Thanks in advance

 

[Moreaux]

I believe that the subutex is binding to the receptors hat alcohol normally binds too, and that is why you are not getting drunk. Naltrexone acts similarly, which is alcoholics (myself included) use it to help stay off the sauce lol. That being said, if you drink enough you will still get drunk (lack of coordination, slurring speech, etc) but you will not have the associated pleasure from drink - no dopamine response, so you just feel uncoordinated and slow.

ETA - as for subutex blocking all pleasure in general, I doubt it.its just blocking the pleasure that you would feel from something hitting the receptors that it's bound too.

 

[Opiatehell85]

I believe that the subutex is binding to the receptors hat alcohol normally binds too, and that is why you are not getting drunk. Naltrexone acts similarly, which is alcoholics (myself included) use it to help stay off the sauce lol. That being said, if you drink enough you will still get drunk (lack of coordination, slurring speech, etc) but you will not have the associated pleasure from drink - no dopamine response, so you just feel uncoordinated and slow.

ETA - as for subutex blocking all pleasure in general, I doubt it.its just blocking the pleasure that you would feel from something hitting the receptors that it's bound too.

Thought that might be the case! That's a shame yeah I didn't enjoy drinking yesterday as I usually would once in a while, still hot a hangover tho haha! Ah well it's not forever, I'm hoping to be off them soon!

 

[mrsnowygrainius]

yep I am on subs and cannot get drunk either... can't even get a buzz from drinking it just feels very uncomfortable

 

[SS373dOH]

You should avoid alcohol at all costs, when on bupe. It's been known to have adverse effects, and I've personally lost a close friend to that exact combination! Now THC is perfectly safe to use while on bupe', so I'd suggest substituting bud for the alcohol. Be safe dear! =]


- Hopeless Soul

 

[Mad Dash]

There is no medical reason this should be happening. But there is a psychological reason. Placebo.

 

[SS373dOH]

I'm on detox using subutex 10mg daily, have been on this dosage for seven weeks.

Hun, in all honesty, that's nowhere near a detox! If I were you and start making an escape plan (taper). The longer you're on it, the harder it is to get off of it. Besides, then you can get drunk and have fun again! ;]

- Hopeless Soul

 

[deephouse412]

Subutex doesnt even have naloxone in it. Just bupe. There is no reason you shouldnt be able to get drunk. I dont advise it but im the last person that should give advice. I get a vivitrol shot once monthly for a nasty H addiction. Vivitrol is Naltrexone injected into the fat above your ass to "put a brick wall around your opiate receptors" The heroin is now essentially a tennis ball being thrown against that wall. If i were to relapse, I WILL NOT get high. I havent tried but i read its nearly impossible. However i still go out for a few drinks every now and then and i definitely get buzzed, and although this med. was initially made for alcoholics to reduce alcohol cravings, i believe its way more effective as a treatment for opiate addiction IF YOU WANT TO GET OFF THE OPIATES. Also, and i am not judging at all, but your bupe dose is way too high. I had to wean and wean and wean from subs til i finally jumped at .125mg. Then i went right back to dope before i started the shot

 

[Opiatehell85]

Thanks for all the answers, I did feel a little buzz, but from the amount of alcohol I drank I should of felt well more, maybe it is placebo. Maybe not. No go ahead, judge away, I think I've done well staying on 10mg, they wanted me to increase but I said no. I've still got bad cravings so would rather be on 10mg of bupe than to go back to a life of drug seeking hell. I'm stable at the moment, have up and down days, but I am starting to reduce as from next week, that's my choice not theirs. Everyone's different, what's suitable for one person doesn't mean the next will be exactly the same, I'm happy with the rate I'm reducing etc and I've done so damn well always be proud of yourself wether you're on 2mg or 32mg of subs, at the end of the day you've still made that change to try and quit drugs.

 

[Zerwas]

I believe that the subutex is binding to the receptors hat alcohol normally binds too, and that is why you are not getting drunk.

This is not true. Subutex binds to the opioid receptors (µ-receptor for example) as a partial agonist and alcohol acts on the GABA receptors. Two total different mechanisms of action.

Actually you should get more intoxicated while on Subs. I can not tolerate alcohol anymore and I am on a very small dose (0,5-1mg). This seems to be common with a lot of opioid users, I mean that alcohol is not pleasant anymore. It just fucks me up in a way that feels bad, no tipsyness etc, just plain wreckage.

I would also advise to avoid alcohol while on Subs. Buprenorphine is a very potent opioid and drinking a bottle of Vodka on 10mg could get very dangerous fast to the point where you could aspirate your vomit while sleeping and choke on it. Pls stay safe

 

[Opiatehell85]

This is not true. Subutex binds to the opioid receptors (µ-receptor for example) as a partial agonist and alcohol acts on the GABA receptors. Two total different mechanisms of action.

Actually you should get more intoxicated while on Subs. I can not tolerate alcohol anymore and I am on a very small dose (0,5-1mg). This seems to be common with a lot of opioid users, I mean that alcohol is not pleasant anymore. It just fucks me up in a way that feels bad, no tipsyness etc, just plain wreckage.

I would also advise to avoid alcohol while on Subs. Buprenorphine is a very potent opioid and drinking a bottle of Vodka on 10mg could get very dangerous fast to the point where you could aspirate your vomit while sleeping and choke on it. Pls stay safe

Hey

thanks For your help, yeah it was uncomfortable I felt very sick, maybe that's why, I did feel slightly drunk but not how I'd usually feel. I'm not a big drinker it was a one off, so it won't be happening again anyway. Sooner I'm off the bupe the better tbh, I won't have to worry bout nothing then

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

There is no medical reason this should be happening. But there is a psychological reason. Placebo.

Opoids are known to play a role in alcohol intoxication http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19630722

Also, when opoids bind to opoid receptors on the GABA interneurons near the nucleus accumbens it inhibits the GABA interneurons, therefore increasing activity of the nucleus accumbens - with alcohol increasing GABA I think this might be a case where there was a net loss of (Subutex induced) nucleus accumbens activity because of increase GABAergic tone over the nucleus accumbens.

 

[Opiatehell85]

Opoids are known to play a role in alcohol intoxication http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19630722

Also, when opoids bind to opoid receptors on the GABA interneurons near the nucleus accumbens it inhibits the GABA interneurons, therefore increasing activity of the nucleus accumbens - with alcohol increasing GABA I think this might be a case where there was a net loss of (Subutex induced) nucleus accumbens activity because of increase GABAergic tone over the nucleus accumbens.

Oh dear! That makes no sense to me at all, but I think what you're saying is that subs do block alcohol!?

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Hahaha sorry, yes subs do block alcohol, it's not all in your head

 

[bobby1978]

There is no medical reason this should be happening. But there is a psychological reason. Placebo.

How can something be a placebo effect when a person isn't even consciously aware of any potential effect? I mean, from what I read, she didn't expect the subs to have this particular effect, she just noticed it after the fact.

Doesn't it stand to reason that if someone has to point out to you that something had a placebo effect after you had a completely unexpected effect, that it can't really be placebo? Isn't expecting something to happen integral to the placebo effect?

 

[BasX]

In theory you would be right, but in practice people always expect things one way or the other. They may notice something early on that will contribute to the 'placebo' effect throughout, even if only at the near-subconscious level.

 

[Opiatehell85]

How can something be a placebo effect when a person isn't even consciously aware of any potential effect? I mean, from what I read, she didn't expect the subs to have this particular effect, she just noticed it after the fact.

Doesn't it stand to reason that if someone has to point out to you that something had a placebo effect after you had a completely unexpected effect, that it can't really be placebo? Isn't expecting something to happen integral to the placebo effect?

my thoughts exactly! I mean if I was to have a drink now, then it could be placebo as I would be trying to get drunk to find out if it's true, but on Tuesday I went out expecting to get as drunk as I usually would and just felt slightly tipsy. The negative side effects outweighed the benefits of drinking while on bupe, it wasn't a nice feeling. I don't intend to do it again, what's the point in wasting so much money on a night out for nothing, I may aswell of drank Coca Cola haha! Thanks for all your comments, it's definitely been an interesting post for me, even my key worker said no ones had that complaint to her before, the only think people have complained about is if they drink when on bupe, then they find they are in withdrawal when they wake up, I found that a bit odd too as it hadn't happened to me, but suppose everyone's different.

 

[Erikmen]

Hahaha sorry, yes subs do block alcohol, it's not all in your head

I thought they would only block opiates based on my experience with methadone.
Drinking was never a big issue for me, I'd normally be satisfied with a couple of beers eventually.

But of course methadone is not suboxone, so I'm not really sure. So this example is based on my experience
only

 

[Zerwas]

Hahaha sorry, yes subs do block alcohol, it's not all in your head

Where does this assumption come from? Buprenorphine blocks opioids as Erikmen mentioned, but not Alcohol.
Generally it does potentiate any other CNS-depressants such as Alcohol and Benzodiazepines. From my experience I get much more easily fucked up if I drink while being on even a very low dose of Subutex but the Alcohol lacks its recreational effects and just makes me feel wasted in a bad way.

There is a thread about this "Alcohol intolerance phenomenon" which does occur in a lot of opioid users and addicts and actually the consens seems to be that if you want to enjoy an opioid high you shouldn't drink any alcohol because it destroys the fine euphoria and of course is very dangerous to mix.

The link you posted does not state that Buprenorphine "blocks" alcohol but that Ethanol itself has a specific effect on the opioid receptors and the metabolism of opioids.
Subutex is not even specifically mentioned in the abstract so I do not understand how you can make this statement and present it as a fact when there is no evidence, no offense.

 

[Cotcha Yankinov]

Where does this assumption come from? Buprenorphine blocks opioids as Erikmen mentioned, but not Alcohol.
Generally it does potentiate any other CNS-depressants such as Alcohol and Benzodiazepines. From my experience I get much more easily fucked up if I drink while being on even a very low dose of Subutex *but the Alcohol lacks its recreational effects and just makes me feel wasted in a bad way.

There is a thread about this "Alcohol intolerance phenomenon" which does occur in a lot of opioid users and addicts and actually the consens seems to be that *if you want to enjoy an opioid high you shouldn't drink any alcohol because it destroys the fine euphoria and of course is very dangerous to mix.

*The link you posted does not state that Buprenorphine "blocks" alcohol but that Ethanol itself has a specific effect on the opioid receptors and the metabolism of opioids.
Subutex is not even specifically mentioned in the abstract so I do not understand how you can make this statement and present it as a fact when there is no evidence, no offense.

*Opoids play a role in the rewarding effects of alcohol but the depressant effects are mainly from GABA.

*GABA interneurons inhibit the reward centers of the brain, normally opiates work by binding to opiate receptors on GABA interneurons near the nucleus accumbens, a reward region - when opoids bind there it turns off the inhibitory GABA neurons and hence you get increased activity downstream. The phenomenon of alcohol hindering opoid euphoria is probably partially to do with increased GABAergic tone over the nucleus accumbens that is essentially fighting the increase in tone produced by the activation of opoid receptors. The reason you might not notice alcohol's effect on opoids with solely alcohol is akin to the reason why Bupe as a partial agonist causes euphoria at low doses but has a cap on it at higher doses. In other words, when there is a lot of nucleus accumbens activity, a little bit of GABA will be shutting down a lot more excitatory neurons than if there wasn't much activity. As for the bupe analogy - bupe will be shutting down a lot more endogenous opoids at higher doses.

*Exactly, there is an opoid contribution to alcohol's effects, and bupe could be blocking that portion of the effects. In the same way that opoid antagonists will block out a heroin high, they can block out an alcohol high because alcohol works on the opoid system.