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DOI scraps

fatal

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considering the safety profile of other very similar compounds which has been established through scientific testing coupled with several accute overdose reports dealing with this and related substances including this specific overdose it is safe for one to assume that you are not going to die unless you go completely fucking nuts with the dosage. and even then probably not frorm what i can tell... its just as likely you will die from acid. i defy you to prove beyond a doubt that acid is completely safe physically either. if there is someone who, after having taken the compound before, decides it is a good idea to intentionally take 60mg of DOI then they are probably going to end up getting what they deserve... if you would like i could go and real quick post those scientific notes on the LD50 testing im referencing at the beginning of this post. and while you have time i think it would be great for one of you to dig up some of this highly damning evidence against the dimethoxy 4 (x) alpha methyl phenethylamine family. if there is a reason to believe that they are actually even remotely toxic i think the information should be publicly available yes? id wager a guess however that the ALEPHs(sulfated DOx) are possibly a bit worse for your health than the more simple DOx's, especially considering one is the more active amphetamine of 2C-T-7 which is toxic and very much so in higher doses.
 

Church

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Real quick:

LSD has never caused a fatality, so it's much more acceptable to believe that it is quite safe. And it has been around, and used quite frequently, for many many years.

DOI on the other hand barely has a fraction of the amount of usage that LSD has, and hasn't been around nearly long enough to know as much about it as we know about LSD, and therefore even though there haven't been any deaths from it yet, it is fucking irresponsible to assume that this means it is entirely safe!

No one knows, yet. But until we do, if you value your life, you might consider treating it as if it's not.
 

BreakingSet

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I think I remember reading a statement on these boards (maybe not, UTFSE turned up nothing) that someone regarded DOI as extremely safe because of its historical use in animal testing.

And I also agree with Church. It looks like DOI is largely untested in humans, so long term effects cannot be known.
 

fatal

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Church said:
Real quick:

LSD has never caused a fatality
actually are you sure about that? i am pretty sure that is not true. go do some digging. im sure you can find it on google if you tried.

hugo24 said:
Do you have a human LD50 for DOB or DOI?
no but the rat LD50 of DOB is 125mg/kg. that is extremely high. ill dig up the other LD50(DOI) ill just have to find it. the DOB number is off the top of my head...

edit: the human LD50 of DOB and DOI probably doesnt exist because it hasnt killed anyone. i may or may not recall a massive DOB overdose that had negative consequences but i am not confident whether death was involved. i do not believe so.
 
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Church

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fatal said:
actually are you sure about that? i am pretty sure that is not true. go do some digging. im sure you can find it on google if you tried.
No. You go do some digging. Show me some evidence that someone has died from LSD, and only LSD, before.
 
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who

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Church said:
No. You go do some digging. Show me some evidence that someone has died from LSD, and only LSD, before.

this was discussed not too long ago. the guy IV'd a shitload thinking it was something else...if I remember correctly and that was the only one I've every seen.
 

fatal

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who said:
this was discussed not too long ago. the guy IV'd a shitload thinking it was something else...if I remember correctly and that was the only one I've every seen.
that is correct. actually the nature of the cause of the overdose was unknown. that does not detract from the fact that it happened.

Church said:
No. You go do some digging. Show me some evidence that someone has died from LSD, and only LSD, before.
i dont care if you want to know if its true or not. if you choose you may live under whatever veil of ignorance you choose. rant and rave about how wrong i am for days on end if you wish. unless you go and do your research before speaking you are being ignorant. and i dont care what you moderate. but if you wish to moderate discussion on psychedelic drugs then maybe you should know something about them eh church?
 

who

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fatal said:
that is correct. actually the nature of the cause of the overdose was unknown. that does not detract from the fact that it happened.
no the nature of the cause was ignorance. he shot LSD thinking it was something else, so LSD used within normal limits attainable to most is without casualties. Church still wins the point on this one. ;)
 

Church

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fatal said:
i dont care if you want to know if its true or not. if you choose you may live under whatever veil of ignorance you choose. rant and rave about how wrong i am for days on end if you wish. unless you go and do your research before speaking you are being ignorant. and i dont care what you moderate. but if you wish to moderate discussion on psychedelic drugs then maybe you should know something about them eh church?
LOL! Yeah maybe I should. Maybe you should show me this evidence you are speaking of, so I can change my ways.

And by the way, that alleged I.V. LSD death was never proven to have been the result of LSD toxicity. All they knew was that they couldn't find an anatomical cause of death, and yes he had WAY too much LSD in his liver. But it's presumed to have been an IV overdose. Not proven. The medical journal that Erowid references even states this.

And if the guy DID die from an "LSD overdose" then it's still gotta be one of the safest drugs known to man, seeing as how it's been used billions of times and only one death has occurred from it.

But once again, it's not known that the LSD killed that guy.

And also, to the smartass fatal, I don't claim to be a know-it-all on any subjects, and if you can prove me wrong about something, just do it, so we can all learn from it, don't just be a dick. Being a mod doesn't mean I'm supposed to know everything. That skill is reserved for the admins.
 
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fatal

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Church said:
LOL! Yeah maybe I should. Maybe you should show me this evidence you are speaking of, so I can change my ways.

And by the way, that alleged I.V. LSD death was never proven to have been the result of LSD toxicity. All they knew was that they couldn't find an anatomical cause of death, and yes he had WAY too much LSD in his liver. But it's presumed to have been an IV overdose. Not proven. The medical journal that Erowid references even states this.

And if the guy DID die from an "LSD overdose" then it's still gotta be one of the safest drugs known to man, seeing as how it's been used billions of times and only one death has occurred from it.

But once again, it's not known that the LSD killed that guy.

And also, to the smartass fatal, I don't claim to be a know-it-all on any subjects, and if you can prove me wrong about something, just do it, so we can all learn from it, don't just be a dick. Being a mod doesn't mean I'm supposed to know everything. That skill is reserved for the admins.

you said someone who died from LSD only. thats what that is isnt it? questioning the cause of death in that case is simply ridiculous and semantical. it is fairly obvious what the cause was. LSD has also killed an elephant and many rats... it is toxic at some level just like everything... for example water... where is one report on death from DOC? DOI? DOB? my whole point was that you have more evidence that says LSD can be fatal than for the other compounds in question. thusly if it is fair for you to assume that LSD can not be fatal at all it is certainly reasonable to assume such about DOAnything because assuming LSD cant kill you is just bullshit.
 

who

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A couple in the first half of PiHKAL die from snorting too much DOB, I think. They thought it was MDMA
 

Church

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fatal said:
you said someone who died from LSD only. thats what that is isnt it? questioning the cause of death in that case is simply ridiculous and semantical. it is fairly obvious what the cause was.
I'm guessing you're not a medical examiner... You are making assumptions and drawing conclusions that even the medical journal who reported the "LSD death" isn't making.

LSD never killed an elephant. A fatal combination of drugs administered to end the elephant's trip killed it. And yes, rats and other animals have died from it. That's what goes on in animal testing labs-- animals are given intentional overdoses in order to determine the LD50.

And as far as DOanything goes... you are missing the point here. To say that a drug (DOx) that has been consumed by humans in the ballpark range of hundreds of thousands of times has never killed anyone, doesn't mean nearly as much as a drug (LSD) that has been consumed billions of times and never killed anyone.

And interestingly enough, the DOx chemicals (with their fraction of usage as compared to LSD's) start to cause really nasty physiological reactions when their dosage is increased by a magnitude of sometimes just 1.5 times the standard dose, whereas people have taken 50 times the standard dose of LSD with no physiological complications. That says a lot right there.

Quit trying to make the DOx chemicals sound like they've enjoyed the same amount of research and usage levels as LSD, because it's simply not true. Maybe one day we will know as much about the DO's as we do about LSD, but we're not there yet.

And folks, even if that IV death was in fact caused by the LSD, that means LSD has caused ONE death out of billions of times of being used, and that was because someone IV'd an insane amount, thinking it was meth or whatever. All that is is darwinism at its finest.
 
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fatal said:
you said someone who died from LSD only. thats what that is isnt it? questioning the cause of death in that case is simply ridiculous and semantical. it is fairly obvious what the cause was. LSD has also killed an elephant and many rats... it is toxic at some level just like everything... for example water... where is one report on death from DOC? DOI? DOB? my whole point was that you have more evidence that says LSD can be fatal than for the other compounds in question. thusly if it is fair for you to assume that LSD can not be fatal at all it is certainly reasonable to assume such about DOAnything because assuming LSD cant kill you is just bullshit.
Alright, yeah, the guy probably died from LSD alone. But he took (I think this is the correct number) something like 300,000 hits! All I'm trying to say is that if you took 300,000 times the average dosage of DOI, you would probably die. I guess we don't know, and I hope we never have to find out, honestly. Because that would require a fatality.

And yeah, to whoever said that The Doctor (DOC) is better... it really is.
 

Church

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^ Actually he IV'd 320mg, which equates to 3,200 hits of today's standards... or 1,280 hits of 1967's standards. But that's still ridiculously insane!

For what it's worth.
 

illuminati boy

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Grrr… must I fact check everything?

Point the first… it appears likely that one and only one numb nut has expired secondary to an utterly massive dose of LSD that was presumed to have been I.V.ed. Here is more information.

Point the second… the elephant LSD overdose was likely due to factors far beyond the simple administration of LSD. Here is some more information.

Point the third… Not that anyone really cares, but it was MDA that the DOB in question was reportedly mistaken for, not MDMA.

Point the fourth… a single data point is generally of little value in making general statements. While possible large dose survivals or fatalities are things that should be reported, the general picture will not be known with only one or a few such reports. Individual biochemistry, additional medications, and other extra-pharmacological factors need to be carefully considered. Please try to keep all statements as true and precise as possible (i.e. “this compound felt very safe to me” NOT “this compound is completely safe” or “I appear to have survived 50 mg. intact” NOT “50 mg. is {universally} safe”).

Point the fifth… I mistakenly looked in here for additional information about DOI… back on track anyone??

I B
 

fatal

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the subject of the aforementioned DOI overdose described it as a "trance-like state". he claims he never felt threatened physically at any point by the compound... al though psychically was a different story at some points.
 

Church

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JuicyJay said:
Going into 100mg/100ml of distilled water :)
Good boy! You have learned well, grasshopper...
 
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