Misc Doesn't taking gaba drugs feel like a huge worry/responsibility for fear that....

[Deioflaje]

they have life threatening withdrawals worse than heroin?

I would really like to try baclofen but the stories of gaba withdrawals sound terrifying and feels like such a heavy burden worrying if it would ever happen to you.

Kratom was the first physically addictive drug I took with any regularity having been a stimmer in my youth and kratom had me worried enough when I first started but I always knew from the stories that there was quite a low ceiling to how bad the withdrawal get however with gaba drugs there is no limit is there.

How are you not constantly in fear of losing control?

I have what a therapist has called extreme generalised anxiety disorder so I always fear the worst scenarios even though I have never been one to abuse substances and take very tiny doses really compared to most.

But baclofen sounded like something which could have great therapeutic potential so I wanted to experiment with it but the fear of withdrawal stops me. I certainly only want to take it now and then but it is that huge monstrous withdrawal capability that scares me. But at the same time it sounds like I could be missing out on a great tool.

I see that alot of you do not seem to worry about phenibut and can keep it under control so what is your mental rational. In my mind currently it feels like using gaba drugs would be akin to leaving loaded handguns around the house. (I am from europe btw so that is not the norm unlike you yanks )

Isn't it like that with phenibut/baclofen where one false move, just getting a little too comfortable with the substance and you are in deep shit and the world is cracking under your feet or is there some leeway/ways to check yourself without things spiraling out of control.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

They aren't in fear because they are on gaba drugs...

 

[JahSEEuS]

^^ lol

OP: I had sparingly used Baclofen and enjoyed the results but I never took it more than 3 days in row and I think maybe 20 times in total.

it was helpful for back spasms and quitting alcohol/cocaine (unfortunately back on that train, but not nearly as much)

 

[Hodor]

It very much comes down to dosage and each substance's specific pharmacological profile (things like abuse potential, dosage ceiling, types of receptors targeted...).

It's not just about how bad the withdrawal could theoretically get, but also how realistic it would be for you to develop that deep of an addiction.

Beer is a GABAergic, yet I doubt anybody would consider it more addictive than meth or crack cocaine. Gabapentin is a GABAergic, but you'd have a hard time convincing a doc to switch you to fentanyl "because it's easier to detox from".

As far as GABAergics go, baclofen and the structurally related gabapentinoids (gabapentin, pregabalin, phenibut) have a relatively low abuse potential. I mean, I still wouldn't suggest self-medicating with them, but all in all the risk of developing a full-blown addiction to these is relatively low. Sure, continued use can lead to a certain degree of physiological dependency that suggests it would be a better idea to gradually taper off these substances rather than quit them cold-turkey, but it's in no way like chugging vodka, popping quaaludes or injecting midazolam.

 

[downerhead]

I wouldn't worry bro, especially if prescribed. I am prescribed 8mg of Xanax daily, along with Roxicodone 15s (15mg of instant release oxycodone in each pill, without APAP), have been for years and years, and I'm fine. Prescriptions ensure a constant, steady supply so you'll always have your pills (unless you eat them all in 2 weeks). I have chronic pain and panic disorder and the benefits of my roxys and xannies far outweigh the risks in my case, and it sounds like yours too.

BTW, I keep several loaded guns around the house at all times, what's the big deal with that? I have a Glock 21 .45 ACP sitting next to me now.

 

[vacuole]

I have never taken Phenibut more than two days in a row. Sure, that means sometimes I might go time periods where I dose every other day (rarely above 2.5 g), but even so when I abstain for longer I have not gotten those extreme withdrawal symptoms that everyone talks about. Yes, there is a psychological habituation that I deal with which takes some time to get past, but without the physical part it's easily dealt with.

BTW, my situation may not apply to everyone else, so just because I can avoid physical withdrawals doesn't mean anyone/everyone else will. If I could take this substance every day I would; it's pretty much an ideal antidepressant for someone like me.

 

[Prescottdave]

I wouldn't worry bro, especially if prescribed. I am prescribed 8mg of Xanax daily, along with Roxicodone 15s (15mg of instant release oxycodone in each pill, without APAP), have been for years and years, and I'm fine. Prescriptions ensure a constant, steady supply so you'll always have your pills (unless you eat them all in 2 weeks). I have chronic pain and panic disorder and the benefits of my roxys and xannies far outweigh the risks in my case, and it sounds like yours too.

BTW, I keep several loaded guns around the house at all times, what's the big deal with that? I have a Glock 21 .45 ACP sitting next to me now.

The problem with situations like this include the reality of dying if you end up in jail or misplace your meds.

 

[Gorillaboy21]

That’s literally my biggest fear I just can’t imagine coming down from like 8-10 mgs Xanax daily in jail my lord ....
I’ve seen a few articles on people who die due to lack of medical care during withdrawals. They leave you to flop around

 

[aihfl]

I’ve seen a few articles on people who die due to lack of medical care during withdrawals. They leave you to flop around

I detoxed off alcohol and benzos in jail. They couldn't give less of a shit. The guy in the cell next to me was detoxing off heroin and was going apeshit yelling and rattling the cell door. I told the arresting officer I needed my blood pressure medication. He said he'd go by my house and get them from my ex-wife and of course he didn't. The same cop told the guy in the next cell he'd go get him some methadone and of course he didn't.

I've been prescribed baclofen. If you're looking for something to get you high, look elsewhere. At therapeutic doses you don't really "feel" it doing anything and at high doses you'll be so dizzy and disoriented that you'll wish you were blacked out but you aren't. As long as you titrate down off baclofen there are no issues with withdrawal.

 

[ObieWan]

In my opinion, benzos are way overprescribed. The are good for short term use or when necessary. Drugs like sertraline or fluoxetine are better alternatives for OCD, social anxiety, panic disorders; save the benzos for acute episodes. Most docs don't explain the dangers of long term of benzos- mainly potential addiction, dependence, and what a bitch it is to quit.

Imagine being half way to FL and realizing "oh shit, I forgot my Xanax." Your doc can't "call in" a script to you in another state. You can't just stop taking 4mg a day. I don't know what you would do- ER, urgent care?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I wasn't worried. I never became dependent on benzos, alcohol or GHB.

Benzos are for the most part not life threatening (exceptions being drug combos, temazepam etc.), and most people are not alcoholics (roughly 1 in 8 in U.S.)

GHB is difficult to find 'enough of' to become dependent on.

 

[aihfl]

I don't know what you would do- ER, urgent care?

Yes, you'd have to go to an ER and get a short script. Been there done that.

 

[treezy z]

I'm not scared at all. I don't like alcohol a huge amount, drink once or twice a week. Love me some xanax but I usually buy 20 do those and put it down for a while. GHB I could have probably got addicted to, it's second only to PCP for me but my supplier dried up.

 

[aihfl]

Hey Treezy, the jail I detoxed at was in Brattleboro, Vermont not far from you. It was horrible. It's in the dank basement of the town hall. They feed you Burger King. I still can't eat Burger King because of that experience. At least the cop was cool enough when I asked him to not bring me coffee with breakfast because I didn't want to be awake in jail. He brought me Sprite instead. After I dried out they at least let me take some paperback books back to the cell. I had to spend the weekend there because my bond was only five hundred bucks and it was too low for the bondsman to want to deal with. Now the Windham County Sheriff's Deputy that took me to court was a completely different story. That guy was a complete and utter dick.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I Prescriptions ensure a constant, steady supply so you'll always have your pills (unless you eat them all in 2 weeks).

I'm surprised to hear someone say that. When I was prescribed opiates it was a nightmare finding pharmacies that we're both in stock and willing to fill it.

Just wait until the next DEA mandated 20 percent slash in opioid manufacturing coming 2018. I hope your pharmacy supply stays reliable.

To OP:

not as scared as I am to be dependent on opioids due to the nightmare of monthly doc visits, drug tests, pharmacy shortages and being more likely to be cut at any moment for no reason. having to use fent laced heroin because of any of the above bullshit not getting my script in time

Benzos, gaba drugs are very easy to get and have none of the above problems, sure the WD is worse but less likely to happen unless you go to jail

 

[Jabberwocky]

It all depends on how the substance/drug/medication is used.

Baclofen is actually a really useful drug in terms of controlling cravings for other drugs. Similar to how gabapentin is sometime prescribed as a mood stabilizer. Each medication can be really helpful in controlling cravings for other drugs, particularly opioids (IME) and alcohol (or so I've read in the medical literature).

I think baclofen works better than gabapentin, but this is partially because I have a super high tolerance to gabapentin now (I don't even use it frequently, but I've used it enough over the last decade here and there to develop a tolerance that never seems to really go away) whereas I don't have much of a tolerance to baclofen. So I'm a little biased there.

But both medications work really well. I'd take a dependency on baclofen or gabapentin over a dependency on illegal drugs or even quasilegal drugs like kratom any day. Then again, I'd probably only take the baclofen/gabaergic in such a way as to avoid serious issues with dependency (I have a history of taking it in such a way, even over long term - like I said it works well for controlling cravings to drugs, even itself to a certain degree).

I've heard some horror stories of people taking high doses of baclofen or more often gabapentin or pregabalin for years and years and then cold turkeying. Tapering off and detoxing properly is important with serious long term dependency though, so these folks either didn't have the proper medical support or just didn't detox properly for whatever reason. Not saying detoxing off a serious dependency on something like this is easy, just that it's possible to manage fairly effectively with proper support systems in place (medical, peer, etc).

 

[keeping]

jesus american pens sound like a fucking nightmare
here in the UK they'll keep you on 'done or subs the moment you get in til the day of your release.
no taper, they actually prefer you not to wd/taper off in prison.
leave that shit to the local council.

 

[aihfl]

After reading "The End of My Addiction" by Olivier Ameisen MD, an alcoholic physician who pioneered the use of baclofen for treating alcohol use disorder (he basically experimented on himself) I had high hopes for baclofen but I just ended up taking the baclofen and still drank pretty heavily, which was bad news and I titrated myself off of it. I still take gabapentin, but mostly just to knock myself out at night. Where I really turned a corner and managed to stay sober for an extended period of time was in a rehab stint where the doctor put me on a SSRI. I resisted it at first thinking of all these antidepressant horror stories I had heard but as he put it, "maybe you're so used to feeling bad you don't know what it is to feel good - give it a chance." So I did and what do you know it worked for a while at least, until I had that incident that precipitated this most recent binge.

And yes, American jails are awful. I shudder to think I almost went back to one in August. There are numerous accounts of people dying of withdrawals while in custody.

 

[keeping]

And yes, American jails are awful. I shudder to think I almost went back to one in August. There are numerous accounts of people dying of withdrawals while in custody.

glad you skirted that one man, seriously bun that - that poor girl who died from dehydration after h cold turkey in the county jail...
nah man

 

[aihfl]

i spent day 2 of opiate WD in jail after an incident where i drank about 16 beers and snorted a few lyricas. it was horrible. bright florescent lights on all night in the holding cell while they were waiting to book me in, which took 6 hours. they make you take a shower for 5 minutes before you get to your cell - the pressure was intense like a garden hose and the guard suggested that i not try to use the heat because it gets extremely hot. pushed the hot button - yup burning hot right away and would turn off after 30 seconds. good thing i got out the next day around mid-day because they didn't care that i drink at least 12 beers a day and am addicted to opiates as well, they said they weren't giving me any meds since i don't even have a doctor that i see regularly. so first thing i did was spend the $1 i had in my pocket on a 24oz natty daddy to keep me company on the 8 mile walk home.

I was passed out in an interstate highway rest area when some "Good Samaritan" called 911 when they banged on my window and I didn't stir. I was lucky to not be charged with DUI. My car was impounded and I woke up in the emergency room. They kindly discharged me around 3am. I sat on a bench outside for about 3 hours doing nothing and around 6am I started the walk to the impound lot and when the clock struck 7, I headed immediately into a Circle K and got a 24oz Icehouse (the one with the higher alcohol content) went into the mens room and chugged it before I continued my walk to the impound lot.

With baclofen you have to start at a low low dose and titrate upwards. Taking too high a dose is pretty unpleasant. I've been on gabapentin for so long I'm not even sure it's doing anything but my dose is relatively low at 900mg. When I go on a drinking binge and go off my meds, I don't really experience any withdrawal from it. It could be because you don't notice anything when you're passed out, or again, it could be because of the relatively low dose.