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Does Armageddon make Jesus rather evil?

SnafuInTheVoid

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The entire concept of hell, armageddon and rapture is a farce and simply a measure of control and a way to maintain power over the population.

Christianity is not inherently evil. The people who are in positions of power in christianity are.

What is more controlling than telling people, and them believing you, that the only way to save their souls from eternal hellfire is to do exactly what they say?
 
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Gormur

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While I accept that Gehenna could be a realm in sheol/the underworld, shamayim/the heavens could be just about anything and it's rarely described in Judaism

But yeah Armageddon, virgin births, eternal damnation, human deities with primordial parents. These are definitely not Jewish concepts
 

Cheshire_Kat

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The concept of Armageddon is described in the Book of Revelations.

The entire Book of Revelations is an Epistle (Letter) relating a dream that John had. It is not based on any thing that Jesus said or did, like the Gospels do.

Why do I make this distinction ? Because it is important to remember that these portions of the Bible are the words of one Man, not God. Attributing this to Jesus is a very slippery slope since there is no record of Jesus saying any of the ideas embodied in the Book of Revelations.

So why would Jesus be evil because John wrote about his dream of the future, and why does anyone actually care about John's dream ?
 

Gnostic Bishop

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I kind of agree with this statement only because the two world wars did more to advance science than the previous century did
And as horrible as it is if it wasn’t for the unscrupulously evil acts of people like Dr Mengele and his Nazi doctor friends medical science would not be anywhere near the level we are at now
I partially agree.

Our evolution is individual and not the group insanity you speak of.

Most of the science you speak of was already well on it's way.

Most of the first science was for good and not the evil levels we have collectively brought it to.

Most of the first science, from what little I know, was for toys. This led to religions and temples using science to fool their rubes.

It was all part of the circuses that governments allowed.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Bishop

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If you kill a slave you can become a slave in the next life.

This is an argument?

Statements based on suppositions without facts, based on the supernatural, get a fail.

Go hide behind your children's supernatural shield. Using it shows how dimly your light shines.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Bishop

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See, that's the issue with Bible.
I remember my catholic religion teacher said "God is God, because God is absolute. He is the absolute good."
My question: "So he's also the absolute evil?"
She: "No, that's Satan."
My deduction: "So God is not absolute, ergo not God?"
She: "Get out of my classroom."

:rolleyes: Christians

Welcome to the free thinker world.

Truth only maters to those of our ilk, even if ugly.

Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Bishop

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What exactly does the gnostic Jesus entail compared to the traditional view

He is moral while the Christian one is not. He is personal while the Christian Jesus is just a tool for salvation, --- from what was an unjust condemnation in the first place.

The Gnostic Jesus view is morally superior and that is why the inquisitions were sent to destroy us.

It is not for everyone as it has a strong requirement for us to try to discredit the type of Christianity that adores a genocidal god and leeds a religion of homophobes and misogynous fascist.

We know god resides in nature and thus in ourselves.

Man is the best and only representation of whatever god or ideal we have in our minds.

God exist because of us and our imaginations.

The last link to what follows speaks more on how I see Jesus.
-----------

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.


Regards
DL
 

Gnostic Bishop

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The concept of Armageddon is described in the Book of Revelations.

The entire Book of Revelations is an Epistle (Letter) relating a dream that John had. It is not based on any thing that Jesus said or did, like the Gospels do.

Why do I make this distinction ? Because it is important to remember that these portions of the Bible are the words of one Man, not God. Attributing this to Jesus is a very slippery slope since there is no record of Jesus saying any of the ideas embodied in the Book of Revelations.

So why would Jesus be evil because John wrote about his dream of the future, and why does anyone actually care about John's dream ?
If Jesus will not return as Armageddon suggests, then how are the end of days to come?

The bible offers nothing else. Without revelation, the bible just sits there waiting for the scribes to finish the myth. It stalls.

It is like in Eden. If the illusion of free will is not given, to A & E, even as we know they cannot make an informed choice, but are shown to do so or the story stalls.

Without revelation, we might as well end with the Gospel of Thomas and scare the hell out of all the bad Christians.

Regards
DL
 

Cheshire_Kat

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If Jesus will not return as Armageddon suggests, then how are the end of days to come?
I guess we'll have to actually wait and see ...

Not that it's likely to come in my lifetime ;)
 

Gnostic Bishop

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I guess we'll have to actually wait and see ...

Not that it's likely to come in my lifetime ;)

That is my hope as well as I would have to be fighting Yahweh and genocide.

Till then, all Christians of the right/loony side have is Armageddon to look forwards to.

Regards
DL
 

December Flower

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Welcome to the free thinker world.

Truth only maters to those of our ilk, even if ugly.

Regards
DL
I do not consider any thinking "free", as thoughts are always connected to happenstance, but I catch your drift.

I would however not denounce my old teacher for her devotion or her pattern of thought, I actually admire her for that.
As it's my nature to mistrust, it's her nature to trust. I find people with trust in a higher power have a happier life, or at least a healthier attitude towards life

They see a bigger plan at work, and no matter if that plan is real or not, their belief makes it real, in their own way.
They do good things in the name of their deity. That means the deity is doing good. Isn't that amazing? :)

[I'm aware that many religions have a very negative impact, but i'm not talking about those sorts of people, fanatics and the like]
 

Gnostic Bishop

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I do not consider any thinking "free", as thoughts are always connected to happenstance, but I catch your drift.

I would however not denounce my old teacher for her devotion or her pattern of thought, I actually admire her for that.
As it's my nature to mistrust, it's her nature to trust. I find people with trust in a higher power have a happier life, or at least a healthier attitude towards life

They see a bigger plan at work, and no matter if that plan is real or not, their belief makes it real, in their own way.
They do good things in the name of their deity. That means the deity is doing good. Isn't that amazing? :)

[I'm aware that many religions have a very negative impact, but i'm not talking about those sorts of people, fanatics and the like]
Religious tribes have had a massive and necessary impact on humanity; both evil and good.

Generally speaking, the god religions are war religions, as demonstrated by their genocidal god.

They are fascist by design and homophobic and misogynous and have a supremacist mind set.

Those evils are not worth the small good they have done.

God religions remain uncivilized, blood sacrifice and all.

Regards
DL
 

December Flower

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Religious tribes have had a massive and necessary impact on humanity; both evil and good.

Generally speaking, the god religions are war religions, as demonstrated by their genocidal god.

They are fascist by design and homophobic and misogynous and have a supremacist mind set.

Those evils are not worth the small good they have done.

God religions remain uncivilized, blood sacrifice and all.

Regards
DL
This is why I included the disclaimer in [] brackets.

I'm aware of that. That does not change my position that I admire people who believe in God/Jesus/or Quetzalcoatl(for all I care) and do good due to their devotion.

It's not about making good anything, these people haven't done anything bad(or too bad), they're not responsible for the crimes of their church. They're responsible for their own actions, and those I admire.

My pattern of thought is governed by logic, so it is hard for me to believe in such an idealistic being I could model my actions after. I'm sort of a Pagan, in the sense that - I appreciate the Sun as my "God", the Earth, the air I breathe, the blood in my veins. Everything that guarantees my survival.
 

Coffeeshroom

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Im not very educated on this subject like most and only know what i read, heard and was taught by the church as i grew up. The whole Armageddon story does sounds harsh but Jesus according to what i know ( just my personal input, so don't go off on me) but Jesus only shows up after the Armageddon if i understood it correctly. Like god always warns the people of whats to come, so to me that doesn't sound so evil. Like in Genesis 19 1-25. God send 2 angels to smite a town but saved Lot and his family before hand, so though he did something evil, he also saved those he deemed worthy, if that's the right way to put it.
 

6am-64-14m

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If by "jesus" we mean our balanced oneness... if we must destroy to create and vice versa; then evil it be (or not) - it is the same.
Everything decays to feed what comes... nothing is exempt. Our self-importance means nil.
 

Gormur

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I guess we'll have to actually wait and see ...

Not that it's likely to come in my lifetime ;)
There's an armageddon according to Christianity, but there's a Jewish theory that says the coming messiah could be King David, which is just one theory. My opinion is that it can only be God since no human is ever good enough to restore peace, even if it makes for a cool story
 

Gnostic Bishop

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Im not very educated on this subject like most and only know what i read, heard and was taught by the church as i grew up. The whole Armageddon story does sounds harsh but Jesus according to what i know ( just my personal input, so don't go off on me) but Jesus only shows up after the Armageddon if i understood it correctly. Like god always warns the people of whats to come, so to me that doesn't sound so evil. Like in Genesis 19 1-25. God send 2 angels to smite a town but saved Lot and his family before hand, so though he did something evil, he also saved those he deemed worthy, if that's the right way to put it.

Genocide and mass murder are though of as harsh. Yes.

Do you give Hitler the same pass as you give Yahweh for his warning the Jews before using genocide on them?

Who creates the Armageddon if not the Jesus/Yahweh twins?

Regards
DL
 
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