Opioids Does anyone else find this method of withdrawal reasonable?

[timetohunt]

For me coming off of Oxy or Opana feels like dropping off a cliff. Just too harsh and severe without any kind of buffer. The first day and perhaps the next few are just so physical and mentally hard. I rarely do well with tapers and suboxone has a transition that has become just as unpleasant if you are a heavy user. For me anyway.

So I take a dose of methadone which seems to where off slowly thus avoiding an absolute cliff dive.

Sure, you still won't feel good when the methadone finally wears off, but because it's gradual you are more ready to accept it.

Just one or two doses of methadone. I don't want an extended trip where I might slip up again. Hopefully this will be the last time.

Anyone else subscribe to this type of attempt at getting off?
Thanks?

 

[sekio]

It seems to me like you're only trading off the intensity for a longer w/d after the methadone wears off... not to mention you need the strength of will (or presence of mind to only keep ~2 doses around) to not take more than 1-2 little doses!

But generally speaking, substituting with a drug that has a longer and more predictable taper curve is sort of what the Ashton Manual for benzo tapers recommends. So there is some basis to that - switch people from e.g. fentanyl onto a tapering dose of something with a long half life, like morphine / levorphanol / methadone. The key, of course, is to keep *reducing* your dose... for some people they never actually 'taper'!

 

[timetohunt]

It seems to me like you're only trading off the intensity for a longer w/d after the methadone wears off... not to mention you need the strength of will (or presence of mind to only keep ~2 doses around) to not take more than 1-2 little doses!

But generally speaking, substituting with a drug that has a longer and more predictable taper curve is sort of what the Ashton Manual for benzo tapers recommends. So there is some basis to that - switch people from e.g. fentanyl onto a tapering dose of something with a long half life, like morphine / levorphanol / methadone. The key, of course, is to keep *reducing* your dose... for some people they never actually 'taper'!

Thank you for your post. By only using two doses of methadone it should not make for a super extended ween down. I often get in trouble if too much time is involved. Indeed, it's not as fast as cold turkey, but not as nighmarishly severe. My access to methadone is extremely limited and was lucky to get what I have. I seem to do best when I have say 10 days behind me without using anything. I'm still hurting but my confidence grows as does my resolve to not take anything more. I'm a builder, I can build on the success of having done 'time'. It's just that absolute cold turkey gets me near insanity and suicidal ideations.

 

[Raysu]

One of the day smoothest detoxes for me was when I was coming off dilaudid-started going into intense wd and put on a 12.5mcg fentanyl patch-symptoms eased off almost entirely and by the time the patch came off days later and I expected them to return-nope. For my high tolerance I did not expect either outcome.

 

[timetohunt]

One of the day smoothest detoxes for me was when I was coming off dilaudid-started going into intense wd and put on a 12.5mcg fentanyl patch-symptoms eased off almost entirely and by the time the patch came off days later and I expected them to return-nope. For my high tolerance I did not expect either outcome.

That is an eye opening story. Addiction health professionals take note. Plus even in simple logic, it makes perfect sense. Some sort of patch, (not sure Fent....but possible), that lets the patient come down slow over a short time. No ridiculous weeks worth of weening .....because time can actually play against you......more time to make a bad decision. And this kind of gradually gets you to the 'blah' level of PAWS, if you are susceptible to PAWS like most of us. It beats having your skin on fire and freaking out wishing you were dead for a week. I hope my 2 Mdone gig works similarly.

I also like the idea of not getting your daily subutex at the rehab or cutting your own suboxone strips at home. Once again your still going thru a ritual of daily dosing or at your own devices on how much of that strip you take. To me bupe is an alien drug, it's helped many, but others it had adverse effects (twitching for me).

Also worth noting, this thread is for those who are determined to get off and stay off. The ones who will brave PAWS to. Extended opiation is not an option for us. Might be financial, spiritual, career related, medical, geography, on and on. Me personally, I'm going to be taking care of a wife with terminal cancer. Thank god she doesn't need me full time yet. I always run out of my stuff every month. I need to be mentally and physically available every day. Not superman for 2 1/2 weeks of the month, then bed ridden. Just a plain consistent guy, even if a bit melancholy and slow, but definitely consistent.

I realize there is another group that unless under a lifetime of maintenance be it sub, or methadone, will go back to dangerous addict behaviors. Bless them, they chose the better alternative. I need to get completely off though, done and over.....many reasons.

 

[Raysu]

Thank you! And what just occurred to me is that with the strength of fentanyl and its prevalence out there right now it may very well take fentanyl maintenance programs to help people who wanna quit-go into the clinic for a new patch every three days? I can see that totally happening.

 

[SS373dOH]

^ The risk of OD with fentanyl is WAAY too high for them to ever even consider having fent' maintenance program..


OP I don't think only 2 doses of methadone will have very much bearing on the outcome of wd.. It may delay it for an extra day or two, but you'll still have to detox from the shorter acting opioids..

 

[timetohunt]

^ The risk of OD with fentanyl is WAAY too high for them to ever even consider having fent' maintenance program..


OP I don't think only 2 doses of methadone will have very much bearing on the outcome of wd.. It may delay it for an extra day or two, but you'll still have to detox from the shorter acting opioids..

I do realize this and everyone is different. For me that first come down and initial w/d causes all sort of problems for me. If I gradually feel awful, I seem to be better mentally prepared for the upcoming week or two. And by then, I get motivated about the time I have put in. This carries me to the next level of recovery. There is very little any medical or addict conceived process will be pain free or even any where near pain free. I am going to suffer. It is just that initial suffering that makes me insane, crazy, wanting to stick needles in my body (which I am not even an IV user). And yes Fent is dangerous because of microscopic dosing is involved, but if some money was put to research it could work. Or some derivative of that type of thinking with some kind of a patch.

 

[poodle448]

The way I self taper is by getting two 8mg sub strips and cutting one into two 1/2's, then the other one in half, the. One half into two more, then the other half into four more, so you have a sub for 4mg, 2mg and 1mg.

I will take the 4mg the first day after my last time getting high, then wait a day or two, then taking the 2mg, then waiting another day or two, then taking one 1mg, then cutting the remaining pieces of various fractions into 1mgs, and then just waiting after the second 1mg square. After that second 1mg square, I'll wait and see how I feel. Once I feel the onset of the withdraws about to get bad, taking 1mg, then next time waiting a little longer; Repeating this process, taking the 1mg Sub square when I can't handle the WD anymore until it's gone.

Normally when I do this, I'll take the first two doses in 6 days, sometimes, this will be all I need, but other times, waiting to take the 1mgs as long as possible, I find that I typically take 3 of the 1mg squares total and it's over the course of 10 days. 3 of the 1mg squares seems to be enough for me to taper, and it isn't too harsh of WD's. Maybe a week of just not really feeling my complete self after the last dose? I find that I can still go about my daily life when I feel this so it isn't too bad.

Maybe try something like that? Just a suggestion based on what works for me.