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[DMT Extraction Subthread] Noman's Tek

OrionTheHunter

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DMT Extraction Subthread: "Noman's Tek" (STB)

link to tek /// dmt nexus wiki on tek

[original post:]

So I'm in the process of doing my first dmt extraction and had a question about one of the steps in Nomans tek. I accidentally mixed the bark and water together before adding lye to the solution, and noticed afterwords that I was supposed to allow the lye to dissolve in the water before adding the bark...is there any chance that this will mess up the extraction process or decrease the total amount I yield?
 
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Mu-ham-mad

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adding lye to water will cause the water to heat up - this will improve the extraction process and increase the yield
just add the lye directly
 

szuko000

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Adding the lye before adding the bark will cause the solution to heat up drastically. Mu is right saying heat will aid to the extraction after you have your basic solution but after you have put the bark in water it will hurt it. I believe the heating of the solution will cause it to go above 180 degrees which could cause an oxidation of the dmt.

Oxidized dmt is still active though it will not crystallize and will be goo. Always add the bark after the lye, I think this mistake will hurt the extraction and leave you with a less then desired product. I really hope you did a small extraction if this is one of your first times doing it, you might have messed up big time.

No one I've known has made this mistake follow through with it as normal. If your overly concerned you can make a very saturated solution of lye to the point where no more can be added. Allow this to cool and then add it to the solution you have now. Use a tiny amount of water like 250ml and try to add a pound of lye to it or the amount you would need for this.

As I've said I never made this mistake so you can either add the lye straight in and do the experiment, or add an almost super saturated solution of lye in a tiny amount of water to the solution you already created.

Heat will not help at this stage especially the heat created by lye.
 

szuko000

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I would be more concerned with oxidation. Like I said I've never encountered someone that heated their solution as much as lye will. I think dmt starts to oxidize around 200 degrees, you should take this into considerations. I have been around this for a while it might be considered "my shit"

Follow the path you wish I'm only trying to give advise based on my years. Heat is good but too much and you toss oxygen atoms on the wrong places :(
 

Mu-ham-mad

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I always heat to 70 C (the temperature of kettle-water) and extract with white spirit -- no problems with oxidation at all [In fact, heating the water will drive all of the dissolved oxygen OUT of the water - which will surely help to prevent oxidation! - all of this is done in a glass aspirator bottle -- which can be easily modified to be a massive separating funnel!!!].
 

skillet

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How hot it gets depends on how fast you add the lye. If you don't want to risk it just add maybe 50g at a time, letting it cool a bit before adding the next portion.
 

Mu-ham-mad

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heat is good! - no oxygen is good! (oxygen dissolves in COLD water - and DOESN'T dissolve in hot water)
You've got the "risk" the wrong way around! -- Your "don't risk it" would be "risking it"!
 

skillet

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Yeah I wasn't trying to disagree with you, I expect you might be right, or at least that it won't really make any difference. I should have said if you don't want it to get hot add the lye slowly.
 

Mu-ham-mad

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oh, ok, sorry, haha -- forgive me, I've only just recrystallized my entire person; appropriately!
 

aweeeezy

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Clarifying DMT for the Masses by Noman

For those who aren't familiar, the tek can be found here:
https://www.erowid.org/plants/mimosa/mimosa_chemistry1.shtml

I have three questions about this tek...

1) Would one who is performing this extraction on 1kg of pre-powdered MHRB (pre-powdered requires 1.5x water) use 1ml of naptha for each 15ml of water (22,500ml of water in total divided by 15 = 1,500ml of naptha) or 1ml of naptha for each 22.5ml of water (22,500ml of water in total divided by 22.5 = 1,000ml of naptha?)

2) Kinda the same as the question above, but the addendum states that because of the reduction in MHRB quality lately, one should use .4ml (let's say .5ml) per 1g of MHRB. If one were to use .5ml of naptha for 1g of MHRB, 500ml of naptha would be required regardless of how much water was used...if one were to follow the water/naptha ratio mentioned earlier (.5ml of naptha for each 15ml of water), 750ml of naptha would be required. I would think that 500ml would be the appropriate volume of naptha to use...

3) Lastly, how on earth do others separate all that fluid in step 5?! It seems like one would need dozens of 32oz bottles (made into separatory funnels) in order to complete this process in a timely fashion. Any suggestions?
 

Toucan

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Welcome to bluelight aweeeezy :)

1) Yes that's correct, following the tek you would use 1 litre of naphtha

2) Correct.

3) You need not pour the whole mixture down a separatory funnel for every pull. In fact a seperatory funnel isn't completely necessary at all. Depending on your container you can either decant the naphtha from the top, more painstakingly, use a turkey baster to pipette it out.
If any of the aqueous layer gets into this you can use a separatory funnel to remove it.

The volume of liquid is so high because you are extracting from such a large amount. It would be much more sensible to complete this in several smaller extractions - 250g for example. Especially since you're using a nice quick STB tek.
Also if it goes tits up you won't lose it all ;)
 
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Obsidius

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1kg bark in one go seems quite a project you got there. if your bark is of decent quality you might get about 10g of n,n-DMT freebase. Keep in mind that the freebase is not as stable as a salt, so you're better off storing the ground up mimosa for a longer time, than storing the extracted freebase.

the thing with the water, you should indeed take more water the more powdery the bark is, or you will have a thick paste that does not mix with naphta well to get all the spice out.

i realized that by using a bit less naphta, but making one or two more pulls freeze precipitation will be easier, because your solution is of higher saturation. i use about 60-70ml on 100g mimosa extracts. so in your case 500 might work just as good. heat the rootbark solution a bit before every extraction (either by putting it in a water bath.. altough that sounds complicated with 25l canisters or by adding some grams of lye (only do this is HDPE containers, it gets warm!). naphta can hold the DMT better when its warm. you might also want to recycle the naphta since its so much you need. one pull each day, so 1 bottle of naphta is always in the freezer, while the other is in the solution. your material will get more and more yellow over time with recycling but you can get rid of impurities with recrystallization once everything is done. one or 2 reX steps are highly recommended for getting crystal clear shards that do not produce harsh smoke, than the yellow powder you get out of the extraction directly.

seperating 22l really sounds like a hassle. you dont really need a funnel. if your container is a bit more narrow at the top, your amount of naphta will be a big enough layer that you can suck out with a large syringe. i always use syringes rather than messing around with lye and put the sucked out naphta in a funnel and let mimosa-lye spills sit on the floor and get rid of the spillage only.

i never process more than 100-150g mimosa, so in my case there are shot glasses in the freezer.
if you've never done it before, try it with 50-100g first. you might not want to waste 1kg of fine bark by some mistake ;)
 

aweeeezy

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Thanks for your responses!

Toucan, I'll definitely scale things down to 200g extractions.
Obsidius, I hadn't really planned to recrystalize, but it seems like the results will be significantly better.

I have a few more questions concerning the temperature of the solution during pulls and about separating the DMT during recrystalization.

1a) During the basification of the MHRB, is it advantageous to have the H20/lye solution warmed up in a bath before/during the addition of the MHRB?

1b) When adding naphtha to the solution for each pull, should both solution and solvent be warm, and would keeping the combined solution/solvent warm throughout each agitation until separating the layers be a good idea as well?

2a) After the naptha pulls have been in the freezer over night and filtered and dried, recrystalization should be performed before rinsing with sodium carbonate/H2O, right?

2b) Once the DMT has been recrystallized (using naptha), what is the best way to separate the purer DMT crystals from the sludge underneath? And should this sludge be placed back into the freezer in a separate container from the DMT crystals so they can each be recrystallized by adding more naptha?
 

Reverend Random

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1a) You can do that, but watch out with the heat. As others said already, lye does heat up the solution as well. I've done that - heating a flask in hot water only to have the flask crack because of the combination of heat and lye. Won't happen as soon if you do it in lab glass (basic mistake), but still, be wary of it. HDPE is good as well. Maybe even better, come to think of it.

1b) I don't really think it's necessary, tbh. It works just as well at room temperature, although naphtha does hold more of the good stuff when it's warm. Just make sure you stir the naphtha and solution really well and allow time for the naphtha to absorb the alkaloids.

2a) If you're a purist, you rinse. ;) I never rinsed properly or bothered to recrystallize my crystals. But that was just plain laziness.

2b) I think (but am not sure) that you can pour the naphtha with crystals through a filter, while the remaining sludge will stick to the bottom. It's usually quite sticky stuff.

BTW, I never used a funnel either. The Mimosa solution was generally too thick, even when well diluted, which meant it just cluttered the funnel. Sucking off the naphtha with a pipette works fine.

One last tip: beware where you store your solution. It is capable of making everything in your freezer smell like DMT. Which is a good or a bad thing, depending how you look at it. :D
 
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fluke2010

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Theres some pretty good advice in here. Mine is about afterwards. I just hope you are ready to own a lot of dmt. Having it around all tue time for my friends and I was too much to resist. It led to a lot of fun as we were experienced, but still a crazy time. Just don't take it too lightly.

In case you are wondering, yes I am jealous hehe
 

aweeeezy

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When washing, Noman's tek recommends using sodium carbonate instead...
http://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Vovin's_tek#Step_7:_Washing

The referenced tek makes it sound as though you're supposed to rinse the naptha after extracting and before freeze precipitating...is that right?

I thought that rinsing the final product (after recrystallization) was the way to go.
 
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