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DMT cures schizophrenic voices in some people. Documented here.

flabberghost

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Sorry to interject here, but I'm a bit of a middle ground as far as my opinion on your interesting little disagreement goes. I've never done DMT (yet...coming 2020, trust) but I've done mushrooms a lot and while I wouldn't necessarily say it's some sort of.....magic revelation it sure as hell is a bit more than "just getting high" like I have with cocaine or meth....or alcohol for that matter.

Go eat 7g of mushrooms and report back about how banal the psychological outcome is for ya. ;)

I wouldn't understimate their ability to have profound effects on the brain in physiological ways that can enhance all manner of dysfunction.

Yeah, SunriseChampion... I often question the “all manner of dysfunction” that may best NOT be underestimated.

( Resulting from high-dose psilocybin ingestion )

“Dysfunction” being a relative term, within the confines of Western Culture, and an evermore incrementally discordant template of adaptation to that culture.

Does that make sense?

I’m getting older, and the ability to attach the most effective words to often abstract concepts, is becoming less fluid.

Nonetheless, the often “revelatory” nature of heavy psychedelic experiences ( once you get past the distracting retinal circus, and assorted jesters / demons / message bearers ) appears as a revelation of the importance in a common thread of realignment with nature, and the CODE, in an unadulterated form.

The DISCHORDANT, is a non-alignment with that CODE.

Heavy psychedelics can definitely exacerbate the feelings of being OUT OF CONTEXT, in a society that is evermore combustible, inhospitable, and hurtling down a path of self-destruction.

Being “too-sensitive”, or open, to erratic, stray energies, and malevolent entities can make for “crazy”.

The greatest respect for ALL entheogens is a message that I would truly wish to propagate in these forums.

These are not toys.

They are not just to “get-high”.

There needs to be more reverence.

These are vectors, and doorways to realms beyond mere mortal comprehension.

Nobody REALLY knows what happens there.

Having a strong core sense of self is extremely important, in my view.

I’ve been to “psychotic” states with it.

It’s impossible to be truly objective regarding whether or not I have permanently impacted myself in a destructive way because of extreme psychedelic usage.

Insanity is a relative term.

Love is Real.

Out,
Bryan in Seattle
 

dopamimetic

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I believe this. That psychedelics can cure hallucinations. They are just some wires wired wrong in neurology. But of course it's a critical territory and one can also do great harm. But not doing anything might be the worst in some situations.

They wanted me to believe in that I had a psychotic episode and need to take fucking antipsychotics for lifetime when it was just a bad drug interaction that ceased when stopping the wrong med...
 

LucidSDreamr

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psychedelics are more powerful than any other drug class at making their users think that the drugs are good for them. This is akin to trying to fix a heart problem with crack cocaine.
 

flabberghost

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psychedelics are more powerful than any other drug class at making their users think that the drugs are good for them. This is akin to trying to fix a heart problem with crack cocaine.

I’ve considered the very same idea...
( psychedelic chemicals, in general, “TELLING” us that they are good for us... )

Hi LucidSDreamer...

🔴🔴🔴 If I could make the objective distinction between actual value-add, and the would-be false impressions of value-add, brought on by chemically induced fleeting flashes of brilliance... I would have to be a helluva lot smarter than I like to believe I am.

The thing is, the studies are coming in now. -Specifically: the 5HT2a receptor sight studies showing, ( in as little as I may understand ) what seems to be some “nuerogenisis” or rather, brain or signal pathway growth, or lasting potentiation.

Hey, I dunno.

There’s no control subject, or otherwise identifiable baseline for my personal head; Or, for any of the connected resonating frequencies from some “other” source
that may, ( or may not! ) have tapped into me because of heavy Acid ( ++ ) use.

However, yes, I like to believe that these more highly resolute and broadly saturating experiences have benefited the latitude with which I perceive the world now, on a daily basis.

-It made it all RICHER, alrighty?

I’m interested in the idea that varied plantforms, fungus in particular, have evolved such a high-affinity for the biology of our own brains.

Why is that?

The fungus was here first...
( I don’t know when Claviceps Purpurea first appeared )

Do plants eventually recognize that they need to show us some perceived benefit?

-To survive themselves, through protection or cultivation?

Hey... maybe you start thinking a LOT of stuff because of psychedelics.

Yup. Sometimes TOO much.

There’s also a study that I just read regarding reduction of inflammation through the use of LSD.

I think that as long as the studies progress at this current rate, the resultant biologically quantified benefit to hazard quotient will become more clear on the “plus” column.

Then again: Yes, I’m pretty crazy.

But often glad to be that way, however I got here.

The psycho-spiritual stuff is just too unfathomable to even attempt to handle, as to: “WHAT the fuck was that, and is it good for me?!”

Maybe I need to believe that it is as all good for me.

Can I decide for myself?
“...make it call the tune... anybody’s choice... I can hear your voice... how does the song go?”

Blessings to All,
Bryan in Seattle
 

Zephyn

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A schizophrenic friend of mine was brought out of near/mild catatonia with DMT. That, and 2cb, were the only psychedelics he could tolerate and nearly always had a good experience. Anything else and he would be hospitalized.
 

SnafuInTheVoid

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I don't know man. Anything is possible but this sounds like a very dangerous idea to talk about.

DMT certainly played a role in my drug induced schizophrenia diagnosis, along with mushrooms and a few other factors like chronic sleep deprivation. Although, admittedly I was smoking it 3x per day, every day for awhile there.... also combining it with shrooms and LSD. Luckily my brain healed itself after a few years and I can enjoy psychedelics again I'm just not an idiot like I used to be.

Also, judging on what my paranoid schizo friend said happens to him when he smokes a little weed it would scare the fucking shit out of me if he started smoking DMT.
 

TheInvisibleStoner

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What do you guys mean you hear voices?

I talk to myself all the time. But not vocally, in my head. Cannot say I have an imaginary friend. However thinking out loud is quite common.

Do you guys literally have a friend you hang out with? Or is just some voice in your head that won't go away?

I would think some of these drugs (DMT, lsd, etc) wouldn't be good for this as I am pretty certain I did have a side buddy on a few trips and told him to look out for me.
 

Zephyn

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What do you guys mean you hear voices?

I talk to myself all the time. But not vocally, in my head. Cannot say I have an imaginary friend. However thinking out loud is quite common.

Do you guys literally have a friend you hang out with? Or is just some voice in your head that won't go away?

I would think some of these drugs (DMT, lsd, etc) wouldn't be good for this as I am pretty certain I did have a side buddy on a few trips and told him to look out for me.
One time, after a 3 day meth bender (I dont use meth anymore and have less than 10 times, dont dare touch any stimulants anymore), I was hearing the voices of all my ex girlfriends and old friends in my car while driving. I was talking back to them and they'd respond accordingly. It sounded like it was coming from my environment through my ears. I tore the thing apart looking for a speaker. The voices would stop when I wasn't in the car, and begin again when I was in it. I imagine this is what schizophrenia and having your subconscious turn on you might be like. Seeing my friend struggle, it seemed more like a spiritual battle, and his ramblings didn't make sense in the context of any conversation he could have thought he was having. Many of us also experienced strange phenomenon around him.

The thing is, the studies are coming in now. -Specifically: the 5HT2a receptor sight studies showing, ( in as little as I may understand ) what seems to be some “nuerogenisis” or rather, brain or signal pathway growth, or lasting potentiation.

As someone who was put on strong 5ht2a agonists (thats right, inverse action to psychedelics) due to temporary meth induced psychosis (ive done pretty much every drug you could name and then a bunch of alphabet soup ones and meth is the only one to ever trigger psychosis, not even LSD) I can say that shit fucked up my emotional regulation more than meth itself.
 

SnafuInTheVoid

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What do you guys mean you hear voices?

I talk to myself all the time. But not vocally, in my head. Cannot say I have an imaginary friend. However thinking out loud is quite common.

Do you guys literally have a friend you hang out with? Or is just some voice in your head that won't go away?

I would think some of these drugs (DMT, lsd, etc) wouldn't be good for this as I am pretty certain I did have a side buddy on a few trips and told him to look out for me.

When I would hear voices during my whole schizo episode I would describe it like this...

that inner voice that everyone has that you use to both narrate your world and talk to yourself with... that voice changed for me. It still sounded like me... in a sense, but would start saying insane things and I would hear myself doing odd things like laughing or growling at myself for no reason. It's as if my inner voice had become someone else... like me, but not me.

I would also hear other voices in my head. They never spoke to me. I would constantly be hearing what I can only describe as an interview between two other people or a game show going on inside my head where I could hear perfectly what they were saying or talking about yet I myself was never part of the conversation. Imagine instead of a song getting stuck in your head you would hear a tv show going on instead. That's kinda the best way I can describe it.

It's impossible to ignore too, you can't just drown it out or get rid of it. It's 24/7. It's a nightmare.
 

sdxyln

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Alcoholic psychosis very greatly mimics the symptoms as described here. The odd hallucination for me had such a strikingly accurate appearance that the Fabrik of reality was bent to accommodate it. Thank fucking God I do not really have schizophrenia. Doing psychedelics is about all my life is about at the moment.
 

4meSM

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What do you guys mean you hear voices?

I talk to myself all the time. But not vocally, in my head. Cannot say I have an imaginary friend. However thinking out loud is quite common.

Do you guys literally have a friend you hang out with? Or is just some voice in your head that won't go away?

I would think some of these drugs (DMT, lsd, etc) wouldn't be good for this as I am pretty certain I did have a side buddy on a few trips and told him to look out for me.

I believe the difference between schizophenic voices and stuff like having an imaginary friend, talking to "God" or just having an internal monologue is that with schizophrenia you hear those voices when you're not supposed to. Apparently it's a very different thing.
I think this is a pretty good lecture on schizophrenia, a bit long but worth it in my opinion. Kind of amazing, and sad, how debilitating it can be and how the disease keeps progressing (unless you treat it properly) untill the person becomes completely disfuncional... Even the Maasai people (completely different from western culture) understand how problematic it can be.


Starts at the 23min 40s.
 

sdxyln

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Please expand on it if you can. An amnesiac dose of DMT does exactly after the name. Usually one will pass/black out from inhaling too much. I have myself inhaled about two hundred milligrams (half of the methpipe bulb was full of the liquid form before turning into vapour) and there were not any long-term consequences from experiencing the so-called Loop. To focus was very hard and nearly impossible, but the faculty of reason inside the brain was doing its job, or trying very hard to, and my memory of things happening in the journey was nonexistant, unless I tried really hard to grasp, which is seriously not recommended for anyone to do. In any case, this little bit from the experience confirmed for me the accuracy with which Schopenhauer has nailed down madness as the broken string of a memory which has ceased to function distinctly and with proper fullness. I did not suffer from HPPD like symptoms afterward.

The idea of expounding more on my experience is a bit superfluous. Hofmann has cited this type of DMT use in his Sorgenkind. Below I quote the relevant passage for all the others.

... Last week the first 200 grams of a new drug arrived, whose investigation I wish to take up. It involves the seeds of a mimosa that is used as a stimulating intoxicant by the Indians of the Orinoco. The seeds are ground, fermented, and then mixed with the powder of burned snail shells. This powder is sniffed by the Indians with the help of a hollow, forked bird bone, as already reported by Alexander von Humboldt. ... The warlike tribe, the Otomanco, especially use this drug, called niopo, yupa, nopo or cojaba, to an extensive degree, even today. It is reported in the monograph by P.J. Gumilla, S.J: "The Otomancos sniffed the power before they went to battle with the Caribes, for in earlier times there existed savage wars between these tribes. This drug robs them completely of reason, and they frantically seize their weapons. ... Other benign and docile tribes that also sniff the yupa, do not get into such a fury as the Otomacos, who through self-injury with this agent made themselves completely cruel before combat, and marched into battle with savage fury.
 
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TheInvisibleStoner

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I believe the difference between schizophenic voices and stuff like having an imaginary friend, talking to "God" or just having an internal monologue is that with schizophrenia you hear those voices when you're not supposed to. Apparently it's a very different thing.
I think this is a pretty good lecture on schizophrenia, a bit long but worth it in my opinion. Kind of amazing, and sad, how debilitating it can be and how the disease keeps progressing (unless you treat it properly) untill the person becomes completely disfuncional... Even the Maasai people (completely different from western culture) understand how problematic it can be.


Starts at the 23min 40s.

Thanks. Will check it out. Have seen a few lectures by Sapolsky. Smart guy.
 

schizopath

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I believe the difference between schizophenic voices and stuff like having an imaginary friend, talking to "God" or just having an internal monologue is that with schizophrenia you hear those voices when you're not supposed to. Apparently it's a very different thing.
You can also know when the voices are gonna talk. If your schizophrenic symptoms are mixed with ocd
 

SnafuInTheVoid

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I believe the difference between schizophenic voices and stuff like having an imaginary friend, talking to "God" or just having an internal monologue is that with schizophrenia you hear those voices when you're not supposed to. Apparently it's a very different thing.
You can also know when the voices are gonna talk. If your schizophrenic symptoms are mixed with ocd
It certainly is different and something you can only really understand when you experience it. Just like with any inner workings of your consciousness it's very hard to explain to others.

While I could never truly predict when I would hear voices I could certainly anticipate it based on what situation I was going into. For example, when I was actively engaged in something such has a conversation or busy at work I would almost never hear voices. However, if I was in a situation where my brain had the ability to "drift" or zone out for example driving a car or trying to fall asleep I would always hear the voices. In a way I could definitely predict when I would likely hear them.
 

TripSitterNZ

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there are also very high functioning schizophernics out there like the movie a beautiful mind in college we had post doc math researchers who were schizophrenic who could just whip solutions out of thin air for extreme complex cutting edge math.

Mad geniuses have propelled this world foward. 1960's they were able to cure some shcizophernics with LSD by having the therapist also take it medium to high doses and go inside the shcizophernics mind on the trip together and guide them out and rewire their thoughts. Doing this alone somebody is more likely to just damage and disorder their mind more. But if totally done right it is a possible cure but requires a very advanced therapist who knows LSD very well with many trips and is willing to take the dangers of also fragmenting their own mind in healing the other person.
 

sdxyln

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There is no cure to Schizophrenia because we do not understand this phenomena adequately. The closest we have got is thinking of the symptoms caused by a dopamine deficiency, yet there is no conclusive proof, and in some cases the contrary comes to light. The only thing one can do is manage it, and certain psychedelics can help come to a better subjective understanding of one's illness, but only in controlled circumstances and even then doing such a thing will not be advisable in the foreseeable future.
 

schizopath

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Yeah, if you start hearing voices on dmt, shit man. I cant even explain it in words. More than little risky, maybe not if youre having a tripsitter who is experienced in schizophrenic symptoms.
 
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