Misc Diphenhydramine HCL vs Doxylamine Succinate

[b4rd]

25mg Diphenhydramine = 25mg Doxylamine I think.

Diphenhydramine is stronger, it knocks you out, while Doxylamine is smoother, gives a more gently sleep.
Doxylamine gives almost no hangover, while Diphenhydramine's hangover sucks...

Doxylamine feels like a cross between a low dose Zolpidem (Ambien) and Diphenhydramine...

Yes, I would have to agree. They are hard to compare because they cause different effects. I like the diphenhydramine more tho, not the "tylenol PMs" or types with APAP, just get pure benadryl its just pure diphenhydramine.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Diphenhydramine has my vote. It is the archetypal OTC sleep aid. Have mixed the two. The hangover can be a little bit of a bitch. But nothing that bad. I would say just increase dosage with one, and go with that. It'll help you figure out better which one works for you.

 

[iceicebaby]

I do better with doxy, I hate diphenhydramine, always have a hangover feeling and feel like I need more sleep.

 

[DeucalionAH]

When I was sick, as a kid, my parent's would often give me something with diphenhydramine in it and I would be out cold in no time at all. Now, I never really used any sleep aids and even when I'm sick I have a tendency to not take anything for it so I haven't had much exposure to either of these substances in a number of years. However, after I blew out all the cartilage part of my back during a football game, I started having issues sleeping because of the pain. My sleep issues are much worse now since after several different ignorant jackass doctors, it took two years before anyone did a single positive thing. That's a story for another time, though. Anyway, I started trying the OTC sleep aids and I first gave diphenhydramine a chance, but it did nothing and gave me a sensation that my skin was crawling. It could've just been because I was so uncomfortable, but I also got angered pretty easily during that time. Next, I tried doxylamine. Now this worked much better. It's sedating and will help you sleep pretty well, unless you have insomnia so bad that you have been up for 72 hours now like I have Also, it may have been mentioned in this thread already but the bio-availability of doxylamine goes way up if it is insufflated. I'm talking about going from like twenty-something percent to around seventy. It may be worth it to you, but if you can fall asleep off one tablet then there is really no need to do that. Hope it all works out!

 

[onlywant2nod]

I stumbled upon this thread utse and think this may be the reason I have not been able to sleep hardly at all, up all night last night(sunday). It scares me, because I had the same trouble sleeping all night back in Feb when I made the dumb mistake of just jumping cold turkey off 150 whopping milligrams of methadone and toughed out 4 days of wd hell in detox just to go back on suboxone. Only to find out the clinic was right when they said "suboxone will never ever work again like the 1st time around once you start mmt". I sure found out the worst way the truth.

Anyway I too like the calming buzzy type of feeling I get from taking 2 50mg cvs brand sleep aid which has just diphenhydramine in it. I prefer it to doxy because doxy seemed to make me not sleep as well and made me feel crappy mentally, but that was back when I was 19 and had tried every brand of sleeping pill out there. I'm on 200mg mmt again and 2mg xanax 3x daily. I made a real dumb mistake recently of taking one take home about mid noon after I had dosed early that morning at the clinic, thinking that that sad "strung out feeling" that has been getting worse and worse and I'm scared shitless that my Opiate receptors may be "burnt out" or something happened when I made that dumb suboxone mistake in early Feb of this year.

Ever since I made that mistake I was doing great at first back on mmt but once I stayed at 200, I started having that same awful time sleeping again, hence the reason I started taking sleeping pills. Does anyone here have any idea what might be wrong?
Is it bad to take sleeping pills while on methadone?
could it be because I have been taking sleeping pills every night for at least a week now and am having to take 4 or 5 at a time now?
I feel like I permanently damaged or caused something bad to happen this Feb when I went into detox like that and I'm scared shitless.
anyone else who's been through something like this let me know what this could be? any info or help greatly appreciated in advance,
thanks

 

[DeucalionAH]

i have been up since about eight friday morning so i feel your pain. it sucks that you quit but then did it again. it's the mental part of opiate that really gets me if i withdraw. i have been prescribed narcotic pain killers for two years now because i got hurt midway through my senior season of football. apparently i completely destroyed all of the cartilage and some other stuff at the base of my spine. the sad part was that i was supposed to go play college football. well, i saw many different back specialists up until i went to college in the fall of last year. the specialists that i had seen told me that there was no problem that they could see and that it was likely deep bruising. it sure didn't feel like that and sure enough. once i get to college have to go to the ER like three times from september til about the end of october when i was hospitalized and withdrew from school. now, you would hope that the doctors at this hospital would figure out, i mean, i had seen like five guys already and they couldn't find it but someone was bound to. nope, i got released with orders to see the only pain management doctor in my town and he was a dick. he had absolutely no interest in finding the problem, he just wanted to write scripts for the stuff that he had advertised throughtout his office. go figure. i end up getting hospitalized again and they can't find it so they ship me to a new hospital and by this time it's mid january. i was there for ten days but within four days, including the weekend, they knew exactly what was wrong and i've been having treatment ever since. i see a different pain management specialist now who is much better. i am telling you all this so that i can show you that i understand withdraw. especially when i had to see that first pain mgmt. doctor because i had been on oxycontin, percocets, and valium for a month going up to that. once i see him, he cuts my oxycontin by 20mgs a day, gets rid of my percocets, and took me off of 30mgs of valium a day but he did replace the valium with 6mgs of xanax a day. there have been other times where i've withdrawn and it was my fault cuz i took my pills too fast or the pain was so bad i couldn't tolerate so i took more even though the doctor wouldn't prescribe a higher strength. i quit valium on my own in march (i started back on it after my parents threatened the doctor that put me on so much xanax) i was back to taking thirty mgs a day and honestly i ran out, but i barely went through much of any withdraw if any at alll. i got lucky. now when you are prescribed 100mgs of oxycodone a day and you run out a few days early that hurts like a mother fucker. i have had terrible sleep for most of this past year but it keeps getting worse. i talked to my pain mgmt doctor about it and he said that it's common for people who have been on an opiate or a benzo for an extended period of time don't just get the rebound insomnia from not taking the medicine, but it can also cause more chronic insomnia which is often stress related due to what all the chemicals have been doing to your brain. i don't know you so i won't make any guesses towards anything other than the fact that you were on suboxone, and from that i am guessing you were on opiates for some time. if that's true, and if you happen to had been taking benzos as well, then there is a strong chance that you could have some form of depression or anxiety. if the sleeplessness continues, you may want to look into a counselor or psychiatrist. this will help with those problems that may have developed . considering that i have central sleep apnea, which unless you have to, you aren't supposed to take any type of downer and i was on 100mgs of oxy and on valium, which i believe, though not sure, depresses your central nervous system more than any otc sleep aid. i believe you'll be fine. you can take the sleeping pills but they won't work forever, you should talk to someone in psych and they could probably figure it out. a neurologist might be able to help too, but it can take a while to get in to see them. I hope it all works out! i'm sorry for writing so much

 

[Captain.Heroin]

This is the fourth or fifth thread i've seen the capn make it hapn regarding recommending Hydroxizine! What made you fall in love? =]

H1 antagonism without a lot of mACH activity.

When I was sick, as a kid, my parent's would often give me something with diphenhydramine in it and I would be out cold in no time at all. Now, I never really used any sleep aids and even when I'm sick I have a tendency to not take anything for it so I haven't had much exposure to either of these substances in a number of years. However, after I blew out all the cartilage part of my back during a football game, I started having issues sleeping because of the pain. My sleep issues are much worse now since after several different ignorant jackass doctors, it took two years before anyone did a single positive thing. That's a story for another time, though. Anyway, I started trying the OTC sleep aids and I first gave diphenhydramine a chance, but it did nothing and gave me a sensation that my skin was crawling. It could've just been because I was so uncomfortable, but I also got angered pretty easily during that time. Next, I tried doxylamine. Now this worked much better. It's sedating and will help you sleep pretty well, unless you have insomnia so bad that you have been up for 72 hours now like I have Also, it may have been mentioned in this thread already but the bio-availability of doxylamine goes way up if it is insufflated. I'm talking about going from like twenty-something percent to around seventy. It may be worth it to you, but if you can fall asleep off one tablet then there is really no need to do that. Hope it all works out!

When I snorted doxylamine, I needed less than a fraction of the pill, it's a very potent ROA.

I am sorry to hear it took years before doctors helped you out, that is horrible!

I have ADHD, and when I have ADHD meds I typically don't need benzos/sleep aids *whatsoever*. When I first started getting sleep aids, the doctors could have just given me ADHD meds but they didn't, wasted their time giving me lots of benzos to enjoy, heh. 8)

 

[Diacetyl_Morphine]

I find doxylamine way better. It's smoother, no hangover, it seems to help much more for sleep. Diphenhydramine fucks with my allergies, usually leads into a sinus infection or upper respiratory if it gets really bad, plus it doesn't help so much with sleep. Hydroxyzine is nice, but I still think I'd take doxylamine ahead of it. Although, I second the benzo notion. I pretty much can't sleep without them, panic gets too out of control. I hate the 72 hours awake four hours of sleep schedule.

 

[DeucalionAH]

H1 antagonism without a lot of mACH activity.



When I snorted doxylamine, I needed less than a fraction of the pill, it's a very potent ROA.

I am sorry to hear it took years before doctors helped you out, that is horrible!

I have ADHD, and when I have ADHD meds I typically don't need benzos/sleep aids *whatsoever*. When I first started getting sleep aids, the doctors could have just given me ADHD meds but they didn't, wasted their time giving me lots of benzos to enjoy, heh. 8)

I appreciate your concern. It was certainly a rough time but things always seem to get better after they are at their worst. It was definitely an eye-opening experience

I decided to go for for the whole 25mgs with the doxylamine. It was worth it afterwords, but absolute hell for about thirty seconds. It feels like as soon as you start to snort it it all just slams against the back of your throat and there is a lot of coughing and gagging. For some reason I just know that I will end up doing that again, though.

By the way, I am truly envious of your sleeping abilities. I've been put on benzos just recently for my sleep but it doesn't help all that much. I'm given 1mg of xanax at night but it doesn't feel like enough. When I last had it prescribed, my jackass pain management doctor took me off of 30mgs of valium a day in exchange for 6mgs of xanax a day. The valium was the only thing that stopped my back spasms but he said 30mgs was too much but 6mgs of xanax was supposedly less as far as benzos go. Needless to say, I saw this guy for about a month then got hospitalized for three days and transfered to another hospital that found my problem in my back and hip. His office called when I got out of the hospital about not going to an appointment that was scheduled during the time I was in the hospital. I told the doctor he was full of shit and he should stop assuming that everyone my age just fakes injuries. I had to quit playing college ball for God's sake.

Sorry for rambling. It must be the little neurontin cocktail I had.

Have a great night!

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I appreciate your concern. It was certainly a rough time but things always seem to get better after they are at their worst. It was definitely an eye-opening experience

I decided to go for for the whole 25mgs with the doxylamine. It was worth it afterwords, but absolute hell for about thirty seconds. It feels like as soon as you start to snort it it all just slams against the back of your throat and there is a lot of coughing and gagging. For some reason I just know that I will end up doing that again, though.

Yeah, snorting it gives off a god awful taste. Even after I micron filtered it, it still was *horrible*. I don't know why. It must be a function of doxylamine succinate itself.

The effects are really nice to me though.

By the way, I am truly envious of your sleeping abilities. I've been put on benzos just recently for my sleep but it doesn't help all that much. I'm given 1mg of xanax at night but it doesn't feel like enough. When I last had it prescribed, my jackass pain management doctor took me off of 30mgs of valium a day in exchange for 6mgs of xanax a day. The valium was the only thing that stopped my back spasms but he said 30mgs was too much but 6mgs of xanax was supposedly less as far as benzos go. Needless to say, I saw this guy for about a month then got hospitalized for three days and transfered to another hospital that found my problem in my back and hip. His office called when I got out of the hospital about not going to an appointment that was scheduled during the time I was in the hospital. I told the doctor he was full of shit and he should stop assuming that everyone my age just fakes injuries. I had to quit playing college ball for God's sake.

Sorry for rambling. It must be the little neurontin cocktail I had.

Have a great night!

Damn... 30mg of diazepam to 6mg of alprazolam? Crazy. What a shitty doctor. I am sorry that happened to you.

From what I have discovered, most benzos don't improve sleep quality over the long term, just the short term. For this reason I don't use them a lot now, but if I were going to, I would choose temazepam since it doesn't interrupt REM sleep (i.e. I can fall asleep on it and wake up feeling refreshed). Most other benzos leave me feeling groggy in the morning, even if I got sleep last night.

The best things you can do for a good sleep pattern are: exercise, eating enough at the right times throughout the day, and avoiding long term sedative use. That includes benzos, opiates, etc, but long term use of GABAergics really wrecks your sleep cycle from what I have heard/seen.

 

[janekat]

I have tried snorting doxylamine, it is very effective for sleep.

However, I prefer benzos or hydroxyzine. Hydroxyzine is superior to both doxylamine and diphenhydramine for me.

I wouldn't be snorting that stuff - what's wrong with waiting 15 minutes for it to take effect. The minute you start snorting stuff is when you start really crossing the line. I take Klonopin to get to sleep - but it's hard to get your hands on it.

 

[CitioKid]

I find doxylamine to be far more natural and smooth.

Diphen, however, I actually found farely addictive. I used it nightly (generally two to three hours before I fell asleep) and actually noticed a nice, subtle euphoria that it would give me about 45min after ingestion. Its nice for a bit, but surely would have made me zombie every morning if I wasn't using subs to wake up.

But since I quit the subs, I found quitting diphenhydramine to be rather easy. After four years of use I was amazed at how easy it was to let go of - at least physically. Sure, it would be nice for a good sleep, but it's another drug I find myself addicted too.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I wouldn't be snorting that stuff - what's wrong with waiting 15 minutes for it to take effect. The minute you start snorting stuff is when you start really crossing the line. I take Klonopin to get to sleep - but it's hard to get your hands on it.

I disagree with you entirely. Snorting something is not "crossing a line".

There's nothing wrong with taking it orally, it just has a really shitty bioavailability.

 

[StaySedated]

studies have shown that doxylamine is the strongest sedative/hypnotic antihistamine, one study even showed it to be more sedating than phenobarbital.

 

[jamesBrown]

studies have shown that doxylamine is the strongest sedative/hypnotic antihistamine, one study even showed it to be more sedating than phenobarbital.

damn!....you got a link to that study?

i wanna read about that shit.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

damn!....you got a link to that study?

i wanna read about that shit.

That fact I believe is posted in wikipedia, but citation is needed.

I believe it though, with intranasal use of doxylamine, I fall asleep really quickly.

 

[jamesBrown]

That fact I believe is posted in wikipedia, but citation is needed.

I believe it though, with intranasal use of doxylamine, I fall asleep really quickly.

aww pooey. I wanted to read the study. Im gonna try to look it up and if I do I post the link to it.

 

[changerofways]

So uhm, Can you snort Benadryl? If the effects come quicker im gonna try it

Holy shit please don't try it. I am not proud to admit I have tried it and was horrific! I have snorted a lot of things that really bother most people without much trouble (namely 2C-x drugs) but the one thing I will never rail again is phenylephrine. If thus response is too late you may already know what I mean.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Holy shit please don't try it. I am not proud to admit I have tried it and was horrific! I have snorted a lot of things that really bother most people without much trouble (namely 2C-x drugs) but the one thing I will never rail again is phenylephrine. If thus response is too late you may already know what I mean.

Agreed; benadryl is not worth snorting whatsoever.

 

[SkagKush]

lol................. not at all..............