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US Events Derek Chauvin trial and police using excessive or lethal force

birdup.snaildown

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Pumpkin2021 said:
There were not lethal doses of drugs in his system so he was simply high.

The level of fentanyl in his system (11 ng/ml) is well above fatal amounts recorded for poly-substance use... as I established earlier in the thread. If he didn't say "I can't breathe" four times prior to being restrained, I would have less doubt.

I've already said Chauvin is probably guilty of manslaughter.

The man doesn't "think" anything. He is a certified Pathologist who knows exactly the cause of death.

Unless you believe nobody has ever gotten the cause of death wrong after performing an autopsy, your statement is false. It is his expert opinion. He's probably right, but he doesn't know what happened because that is impossible.
 

Deru

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The level of fentanyl in his system (11 ng/ml) is well above fatal amounts recorded for poly-substance use... as I established earlier in the thread

Serum concentration levels of 10-20ng/ml are used for anesthesia. The mean fatal concentration seems to be somewhere around 50-ish ng/ml. Without being able to look further at your data, my initial thoughts would be fatalities in the 10ng/ml range (even factoring in poly drug use) would be for opioid naive individuals. I’m not as familiar with methamphetamine, but his serum levels were 19ng/ml, which seems relatively low (I could be wrong on this portion, though.) There was also THC and it’s metabolites, caffeine and the metabolite of nicotine found in his blood, but those all seem rather unimpressive to contribute to the 11 ng/ml would be a fatal overdose theory for Floyd.
 

jpgrdnr

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Sorry. Are you saying Floyd deserved to die because he wasn’t a tough enough gangster? Or because he was a drug addict who hadn’t yet reached the commitment to recovery? Because either of those two rationalisations are pretty brutal.
The streets are a mean place. The hussle is real. I bet you 100% some black people look at Floyd and go good riddance. You either get rich or die trying. The man was a bum. Maybe if he accepted the Lord Jesus Christ into his heart he would not be where he is today. Or got himself into jail on robbery or something and turned himself around. I've been arrested and fucked out of my mind. I'm white. Who gives a fuck? But I've got enough sense to raise my hands and shut the fuck up when 5-0 come around. Real talk. You run or resist arrest, shit is going down. But that's what black people know. When popo come, you run. Chapelle even explained it all.

You know whats real fucked up? When a man is in crisis, you realise one thing. You have no friends, and you are the greatest enemy to yourself. Life is worth shit, people in Africa will tell you that, where it all began.
 
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I’m waiting to see the defense prove it’s case. I don’t think it is as impossible as most people might think. All the defense has to do is convince 1 person in the jury of reasonable doubt. It’s not really that hard to believe that out of 12 people that were too stupid to get out of jury duty, that one of them will be convinced not to convict. The odds are stacked in Chauvin’s favor historically concerning cops that have been tried for murder of someone they were trying to arrest. The defense doesn’t even have to be good at all (a lot of times they are not) to get a cop off charges like this historically.

My point is, until I we hear Chauvin’s defense, he is going to look guilty as sin to most people following this case. I have a feeling we will be hearing a lot more people calling for a not guilty verdict in the coming days? I might be one of them, because I believe someone is innocent until proven guilty.
 

Xorkoth

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That's not really true. The jury has to all reach an agreement. if only 1 person thinks he's innocent, that doesn't mean he'll get off, that just means deliberation will take longer. If only 1 person feels differently from the rest, it's more likely that person will flip, than that 11 people will flip to that one guy's side.

One thing's for sure, I wouldn't want to be in Minneapolis if he's found innocent. Which is too bad that that's the case, but it's true.
 

birdup.snaildown

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Xorkoth said:
I wouldn't want to be in Minneapolis if he's found innocent.

I would be interested to hear opinions from Americans about whether or not you guys think the riots might influence juror's decision making. It seems to me to be one of those cases that is impossible to be unbiased. There is enough fodder for reasonable doubt to accommodate the racist jurors and vice-versa. There is a lot of pressure to convict.

It's a fascinating case... 9/11 was beautiful. I'm sorry if that upsets people. It was a historic event that I witnessed. It woke me up. It shocked me.

I feel the same way, here.

Sometimes horrible shit makes you feel alive.

I realize how that sounds.

I like sadness because I love people and sadness brings me closer to them.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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He's not gonna be found innocent of the three charges, jail time is def on the cards.
The second degree murder is the one most in doubt, and given that there were other complications leading to his death (presence of fentanyl, other drug abuse, and general health problems), this will be hard to prove.
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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I would be interested to hear opinions from Americans about whether or not you guys think the riots might influence juror's decision making. It seems to me to be one of those cases that is impossible to be unbiased. There is enough fodder for reasonable doubt to accommodate the racist jurors and vice-versa. There is a lot of pressure to convict.

It's a fascinating case... 9/11 was beautiful. I'm sorry if that upsets people. It was a historic event that I witnessed. It woke me up. It shocked me.

I feel the same way, here.

Sometimes horrible shit makes you feel alive.

I realize how that sounds.

I like sadness because I love people and sadness brings me closer to them.
9/11 was super scary. I was thankfully not there but friends of mine had relatives who were.
 

cduggles

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He's not gonna be found innocent of the three charges, jail time is def on the cards.
Agree jail time is highly likely.
I mean I see the beauty in dead birds.
Some people only allow themselves to see the beauty in the living.

I suspect that everybody is like me, they are just repressed.
This - I think - is why everybody is fascinated by Pompeii.
Now that I think about it, the word when the second plane hit, which I saw - I didn’t see the first one- was surreal. My brain literally couldn’t process it. I just couldn’t fathom what was happening. I felt the first plane had to be a horrible accident.
I understand where you are coming from, it would just be interesting if we were both there at the same time.
 

cduggles

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dalpat077

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Wow. You guys are fast with the news.

Was just going to post i.e. yet another police officer to throw under the bus. Yet another innocent suspect.

Idea: put all your police officers in prison and let everyone else out. Will protect the police from society and criminals and society and criminals from the police.

Anybody remember Amber Guyger (a rhetorical question of course i.e. thread dedicated to HRH George Floyd so don’t want to go off topic). She also never stood a chance in hell of course (and that for a pure mistake).

 

deficiT

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The officer stood on that dudes neck for 9 minutes, he literally just killed him over some petty arrest. Last I checked you can't just kill people? Sounds like there might be a problem with state sanctioned murder in this country. And then there's the ppl that will defend the police no matter what the circumstance is. It's a lovely example of Stockholm Syndrome.
 

Pumpkin2021

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Serum concentration levels of 10-20ng/ml are used for anesthesia. The mean fatal concentration seems to be somewhere around 50-ish ng/ml. Without being able to look further at your data, my initial thoughts would be fatalities in the 10ng/ml range (even factoring in poly drug use) would be for opioid naive individuals. I’m not as familiar with methamphetamine, but his serum levels were 19ng/ml, which seems relatively low (I could be wrong on this portion, though.) There was also THC and it’s metabolites, caffeine and the metabolite of nicotine found in his blood, but those all seem rather unimpressive to contribute to the 11 ng/ml would be a fatal overdose theory for Floyd.

I’m waiting to see the defense prove it’s case. I don’t think it is as impossible as most people might think. All the defense has to do is convince 1 person in the jury of reasonable doubt. It’s not really that hard to believe that out of 12 people that were too stupid to get out of jury duty, that one of them will be convinced not to convict. The odds are stacked in Chauvin’s favor historically concerning cops that have been tried for murder of someone they were trying to arrest. The defense doesn’t even have to be good at all (a lot of times they are not) to get a cop off charges like this historically.

My point is, until I we hear Chauvin’s defense, he is going to look guilty as sin to most people following this case. I have a feeling we will be hearing a lot more people calling for a not guilty verdict in the coming days? I might be one of them, because I believe someone is innocent until proven guilty.
I am also waiting for the State to rest. The Defense Lawyer has a few tricks up its sleeve for sure. And like you said it only takes one. Pretty sure it won't be a Not Guilty verdict. Maybe a hung jury? I'm still leaning towards Manslaughter with a minimum of 10 years but That's only because of the last 4 minutes of the 9 minute assault. He probably should have been restrained for the first 5 minutes but once he lost consciousness and was not responsive Chauvin still didn't let up.
 
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