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US Events Derek Chauvin trial and police using excessive or lethal force

dalpat077

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
1,463
So you're basically talking about the pre-crime division of police in Minority Report, minus the precogs? (Let's shoot people in the back to prevent them from potentially murdering someone in the future.)
Sounds like a plan! 🤣

Put yourself in law enforcement's position for a minute. Imagine being on the force for three decades and not once having been giving a socially acceptable excuse or opportunity to fire on a suspect! 🤣
 

Pumpkin2021

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Feb 25, 2021
Messages
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Location
Michigan
But why is it relevant? Unless merely for the sake of discussion and debate? And this site is ostensibly and American site?

My point being: we've already been through this. And with statistics. There simply isn't a problem save for the media (all of it) and their bullshit. Oh and the political climate. Let's not forget to factor that in. And never forget: four years isn't a long time! Just around the corner. Believe it or not.

The totals just don't indicate that there's a problem. Caveat being is that when you break them down (and once again as we've shown and by a detailed study no less) (albeit that it was used and abused to push a race narrative). For the tenth time: there are certain areas where black people are more likely to be shot than white people. Sheer numbers, socioeconomic conditions, pick your poison. But overall: there's simply no issue and it's all nonsense. But the damage that it's causing is being underestimated. And I sincerely hope that one day these pundits are reckoned with.



Agreed. But see my last two sentences above.



Well. Here I'm not quite in agreement with you. Although thanks to @Burnt Offerings's post and article posted: I've now got a slightly different perspective on this. Note: SLIGHTLY i.e. I'm not a total convert! 🤣

I think there's certain factors that cannot be ignored or simply dismissed out of hand. My point being: it's a judgment call. How do you, or law enforcement, know that said runner is NOT a POTENTIAL threat to others? Suppose the dude is a wanted and known felon and is armed and decides to make a run for it? Or better yet: suppose the dude is unarmed but off of his head on something and decides to make a run for it? Noting, as I have already, this after the dude has been stopped, taken in hand, and then decides to make a run for it. And then goes on from there to commit a crime, take a hostage, murder somebody, whatever. You get the picture. Can you imagine the headlines then? "Law enforcement incompetent and not doing their jobs". Wanna have a bet on that? It's a judgement call. And they are paid and trained to make such calls.

Personal opinion (and after some more thought on this over the weekend) and mistakes or not: law enforcement has more right to make an error in judgment than somebody that finds themselves on the wrong side of the law for whatever reason.

And I'm very sorry but I HONESTLY HONESTLY cannot see that a law enforcement officer is simply going to stop a-n-other stranger for no reason, haul them out of their vehicle, and try cuff them or whatever. If they comply, don't act up, and are not under the influence, or don't give law enforcement any reason to suspect that there's something amiss, then why would they? I mean for what reason? And conversely: why would a suspect just off and run anyway for no reason? Fear you may say. Well now. That'd be interesting. And who do you suppose instilled that fear in them? People's anger and outrage and mistrust is misdirected.

Prime examples of what I'm talking about are these fuckers that have been pulled over, fuck drunk out of their minds (or worse), been questioned or ordered out of their vehicles, and then try to make a run for it, and then get the fuck shot out of themselves. And they become martyrs. And not to mention portrayed as absolute saints. And not to mention the civil suits that follow. If they were not shot to shit and collided with another vehicle and killed innocent occupants can you imagine the headlines (again)? And I'm just repeating myself here. Again.

Instead of building statues and agreeing to abhorrent settlements: the people should be banging down the doors of politicians etc. and making them fearful and accountable i.e. fix the societal problems etc. with those millions and millions and millions. Then you'll see a/the difference. But it's all fucked up.

You know and on the above: how many millions did it take to put that little fucking toy helicopter on Mars that everybody celebrated and got so excited about? it's debauched.
The "fuck" and "fucking' and "fuckers" are indicative of how you are feeling today. <3
 

Pumpkin2021

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
Well. Turns out I wasn't that far behind on posts! 🤣

Fun fact: for the first time in my BL history I happened to use a mobile phone to view this thread from a remote location over the weekend (during my absence). Fuck me. It's no wonder nobody reads my shit! Found myself scrolling and scrolling and scrolling just to skip over my own fucking posts! 🤣

Maybe from now on I should post a mobile version of posts as well! 🤣 You know: posts that exclude THE CHAFF! 🤣
You are the chaff man. And the egg man. I am the walrus. Goo goo ga choo.
 

✿Dai₷y✿

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 26, 2019
Messages
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Fapping on the toilet
It has become clear to me that nobody is listening, but I'm going to repeat it again.

1. Black people are more of a threat than white people; and men are more of a threat than women. This isn't racist or sexist. It is reality. Unless you are risk blind (and you feel equally threatened by a child as you do a man) you are also guilty of 'profiling'.

2. The stats don't disagree with me. Black people are shot disproportionately because they commit violent crimes disproportionately. Again, this also applies to men (versus women). If Unless you believe the police are sexist, what you're saying doesn't make sense.


I wonder if tallying the whole white vs black everything in statistics is creating a part of the problem here.

I dunno how many years ago the change happened with describing words here happened but aboriginal or white etc aren't used often or at all in general news, caucasian or dark skin is when describing perps or suspects.


Is it really necessary to even comment on the race of a cop or criminal anyway?

It seems it could create a racial issue anything there is a white vs black thing and its not likely the majority of encounters are racist. Dont hear much about white on white or black on black.

Not sure if this was an entirely racist event, it probably isn't at all, definitely a cop responsible for a death, just like the white Aussie Sheila who died, shouldn't have happened.
 

Burnt Offerings

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Joined
Jan 18, 2010
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USA
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (WTXL) — Zach Wester, the former Jackson County Deputy fired for planting evidence during traffic stops will face a jury starting Monday, May 10.

The jury selection in State v. Wester was completed May 5, 2021. The jury consisting of six jurors and three alternates will hear the case at the Jackson County Courthouse.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement started its investigation into Wester in August 2018 and believes his actions resulted in more than 100 people being wrongly charged. Wester entered a not guilty plea in July.

According to court records, Wester is looking at 76 charges that include official misconduct, perjury, fabrication of evidence, possession of drugs, and false imprisonment

In most of the incidents reported in the affidavit, Wester's body-cam was either not recording, or only recorded part of the stop, whether that was the initial connection with the driver, or after a search of the car had already started.

Investigators believe that Wester placed drugs and other paraphernalia inside at least 16 victims' cars when his camera was off.

"The investigation revealed 42 items of drug paraphernalia, 10 separately packaged quantities of methamphetamine, and five separate items of marijuana. All of those items were recovered in deputy Wester's patrol vehicle," said Chris Williams, Assistant Special Agent in charge of FDLE Pensacola region.

If Wester is found guilty of all charges, he could face about 13 and a half years in state prison.

The jury consists of two female jurors and seven male jurors. The trial is anticipated to last roughly three weeks.


Doesn't involve lethal force but definitely a case of police misconduct
 

Atelier3

Moderator: SLR
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There is something really dissonant about this thread compared to everywhere else in Bluelight where the police are maligned as the enemy, as corrupt, as ‘just out to get’ people, as enforcers for an evil capitalism, as goon and thugs. It seems they are, except in the context of shooting black people (in the back or anywhere else, on the run or otherwise, actually armed or not) where they have somehow become stoic and possibly defenders of civilisation. If I had the time I’d drill down to individual inconsistencies in the way people post in CEPS vs in the drug forums, but I have only a little amount of drug fuelled energy left, so I’ll leave it at the differences in vibe.
 

deficiT

Sr. Moderator: DC, TDS, NSADD
Staff member
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Messages
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The Belly of The Beast
There is something really dissonant about this thread compared to everywhere else in Bluelight where the police are maligned as the enemy, as corrupt, as ‘just out to get’ people, as enforcers for an evil capitalism, as goon and thugs. It seems they are, except in the context of shooting black people (in the back or anywhere else, on the run or otherwise, actually armed or not) where they have somehow become stoic and possibly defenders of civilisation. If I had the time I’d drill down to individual inconsistencies in the way people post in CEPS vs in the drug forums, but I have only a little amount of drug fuelled energy left, so I’ll leave it at the differences in vibe.
Man, I had a whole post written and it somehow deleted itself. Don't feel like reimagining the whole thing because it was probably tl;dr...

But I'll just say that my message is consistent across the board in regards to mercenaries hired by the State to generate income and keep you docile and afraid like the good consumer you are... and that is...

'f 12'
 

dalpat077

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
1,463
I wonder if tallying the whole white vs black everything in statistics is creating a part of the problem here.
I think it is part of the problem (although not just here on the forums i.e. not sure if you were speaking about the forums or generally).

It depends though. On the one hand: these statistics could be useful in pinpointing other issues. On the other hand: they're very handy for groups of people or organizations or media outlets or politicians to push a narrative of their choosing. The irony in the statistics cited here though are that in desperately trying to prove that law enforcement in America is offing black people in record numbers vs. any other race or ethnicity: they're shooting themselves in the foot and proving the total opposite.


I dunno how many years ago the change happened with describing words here happened but aboriginal or white etc aren't used often or at all in general news, caucasian or dark skin is when describing perps or suspects.


Is it really necessary to even comment on the race of a cop or criminal anyway?
As I've noted before on this thread: it's literally against the law for any news outlet to mention race and it's been that way for many many years. It definitely does make a difference to public perception. I will admit that for the more jaded and conditioned of us (white people): the default assumption is that when a crime is reported on it's a black man or black men involved. That, I'm afraid to say, is conditioning that has its roots in South Africa's past. And it's not something that a person just switches off magically one day in spite of their best efforts. But then as also stated: given the numbers i.e. vast black majority that is usually the case. It just is what it is and based on sheer numbers and nothing more. But then again as also stated: that's why things are simpler here and the issues that America faces are far more complex it would seem. And are only bound to get worse I'm afraid (but that's another entire topic).

The only issue that I find, personally, with not mentioning race is when a crime is reported and Joe Public are told to be on the lookout for a certain suspect or group of suspects. It's a bit tricky really. Point being: where is the line between pure detail and identification of suspects and crossing the race line? That said: we get by just fine as it turns out.



Doesn't involve lethal force but definitely a case of police misconduct
Yeah. Nice. See. Now on the other hand: it's because of cunts like this that one can understand why somebody would rather take their chances and make a run for it. So if there's truth to this, he is given a fair trial, and is found guilty of these charges: then he needs to have the book thrown at him and then some.

Then again and course I'd make the argument: how prolific is this behavior? I have no idea. Just saying.

I will say this also though: there are some laws there that don't make sense to me. One of them is this business of probable cause. Or, as an officer in one of the videos that I posted a while back here went to great length to explain to some little idiot, not being able to search a vehicle, without a warrant, unless there is an item of interest (narcotics being an obvious one) that is clearly visible or "in plain sight" (I think that's the correct terminology). Seems to me it must be a fuck frustrating job on this score. The impression that I'm under is that even if an officer KNOWS (somehow) that a vehicle is stuffed to the brim with narcotics (for example): without a warrant and unless "in plain sight" they have no option but to let the dude or dudes go. I'm not saying that's the case here. But I can easily understand the temptation to plant evidence when you know for as sure as fuck that there's a boatload of shit in the vehicle but there's nothing that you can do about it.

But there is a caveat in the above. And I'm going to start a thread on this today i.e. been meaning to do this for a while now but it struck me head on last night and for the final time and pretty much pushed me over the edge. Essentially and if foreigners, like me, are honest with themselves: their perception of America, American law enforcement and judicial system, and a few other things, have been largely influenced by Hollywood and the entertainment industry. Some may laugh at me if you like. I don't really care. That's the truth. Right from the old Western movies (John Wayne & Co.) to the World Wars to the present day. And seems to me that the whole bunch of them are now ALSO towing the racial line and being used as yet another propaganda outlet. And it's so insidious it's just not funny anymore. And I've noticed over the years, but more particularly over this past year, that there are very few people that will not take this mindless, far fetched garbage, as gospel. Anyway, Should be an interesting thread!


There is something really dissonant about this thread compared to everywhere else in Bluelight where the police are maligned as the enemy, as corrupt, as ‘just out to get’ people, as enforcers for an evil capitalism, as goon and thugs. It seems they are, except in the context of shooting black people (in the back or anywhere else, on the run or otherwise, actually armed or not) where they have somehow become stoic and possibly defenders of civilisation.
I suppose no surprise coming from me that I don't see what you're seeing. Not on this thread anyway. Actually the total opposite is what I see. Well let me rephrase: it's the total opposite that I've been trying to prove in my posts anyway. Believe it or not (and for once in my miserable life): I've been trying to restrict my opinions and input based on the actual events. This as opposed to taking race, priors, and everything or anything else into consideration. But fair enough: widening the scope of this thread, as has been done numerous times, has highlighted some very interesting little nuggets and that are worthy of debate.

That said: there's one or two around here, on this thread, that seem to flip-flop depending on the direction of the prevailing wind on a given day. I've stopped addressing those posts.


If I had the time I’d drill down to individual inconsistencies in the way people post in CEPS vs in the drug forums, but I have only a little amount of drug fuelled energy left, so I’ll leave it at the differences in vibe.
Well I wish you did have the time. For sure that'd be a notable and worthwhile endeavor. You could, however, end up with some shocking surprises and shit that'll make your head spin! 🤪


But I'll just say that my message is consistent across the board in regards to mercenaries hired by the State to generate income and keep you docile and afraid like the good consumer you are... and that is...

'f 12'
You know I like you! So I'll keep my trap shut for now! 🤣

Embarrassing as this may turn out to be for me though: I have absolutely no idea what "f 12" means!
 
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Atelier3

Moderator: SLR
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@deficiT @dalpat077 (and anyone else who wants to take exception to my comment. Maybe I’ve overstated the differences. Like I said I was going off the vibes. I can see plenty of people in this thread are anti-police (or at least anti the criminal, thuggish, brutish ones). Normally I like the data rather than the feels. I don’t know what’s wrong with me today.
 

deficiT

Sr. Moderator: DC, TDS, NSADD
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
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You know I like you! So I'll keep my trap shut for now! 🤣

Embarrassing as this may turn out to be for me though: I have absolutely no idea wha "f 12" means!
It's the polite way of saying I don't appreciate the presence of law enforcement. I'll be friendly to them when I have to, but they are definitely not my friends and if they had their way I would be in prison right now. Sure, they didn't write the bullshit laws, but they chose to get up every day and get paid to violently enforce the broken decrees of an unjust system... The instances of police "saving" people or "protecting" people are few and far between, their job is to enforce the whims of the State and the capitalist class. Non-thinking brutes and authoritarian goose steppers imo, yeah I've met some ones that aren't total pieces of shit, but it's still in my best interest to avoid them at all costs, as it is for many people on this site.
 

dalpat077

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
1,463
@deficiT @dalpat077 (and anyone else who wants to take exception to my comment. Maybe I’ve overstated the differences. Like I said I was going off the vibes. I can see plenty of people in this thread are anti-police (or at least anti the criminal, thuggish, brutish ones). Normally I like the data rather than the feels. I don’t know what’s wrong with me today.
Hey. I don't take exception to anything you post. You should know that by now. Your posts have always been enlightening to me and have often given me reason to pause and think.


It's the polite way of saying I don't appreciate the presence of law enforcement. I'll be friendly to them when I have to, but they are definitely not my friends and if they had their way I would be in prison right now. Sure, they didn't write the bullshit laws, but they chose to get up every day and get paid to violently enforce the broken decrees of an unjust system... The instances of police "saving" people or "protecting" people are few and far between, their job is to enforce the whims of the State and the capitalist class. Non-thinking brutes and authoritarian goose steppers imo, yeah I've met some ones that aren't total pieces of shit, but it's still in my best interest to avoid them at all costs, as it is for many people on this site.
All that summarized by "f 12"? I'm impressed! 🤣
 
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Zephyn

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Messages
2,300
It's the polite way of saying I don't appreciate the presence of law enforcement. I'll be friendly to them when I have to, but they are definitely not my friends and if they had their way I would be in prison right now. Sure, they didn't write the bullshit laws, but they chose to get up every day and get paid to violently enforce the broken decrees of an unjust system... The instances of police "saving" people or "protecting" people are few and far between, their job is to enforce the whims of the State and the capitalist class. Non-thinking brutes and authoritarian goose steppers imo, yeah I've met some ones that aren't total pieces of shit, but it's still in my best interest to avoid them at all costs, as it is for many people on this site.
Well said, however I am glad I don't have to personally volunteer to go round up rapists, pedophiles, and murderers.

Also people who don't want to own a gun are probably glad that theives have some intimidation factor, though personally that's not any good method of protection
 

Pumpkin2021

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Joined
Feb 25, 2021
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
The other 3 cops from Minnesota have had their State trials moved out to March of 2022. That's so the Feds can indict all 4 on Civil Rights Violations.

Apparently all 4 will be tried in the Fall in Federal Court. With Chauvin being sentenced on June 22nd, with an aggravated sentence tacked on , then heading to Federal Court in the Fall, he might be looking at some serious time.

Not sure who gets jurisdiction for Chauvins incarceration. I guess he would be transferred to Federal Prison if he is convicted in the Fall. Then back to Minnesota to serve his State time. Between the two he might serve more time than I originally thought he would.

I forgot about the Auhmed Arburey (sp) case coming up. It also has significant racial components and could very well end up in Federal Court as well.

Police brutality has been going on since the 50's, and before, and the Feds are just now getting around to prosecuting for Civil Rights Violations. Better late than never I guess but too bad it took George Floyd to open their bureaucratic eyes.
 
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