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US Events Derek Chauvin trial and police using excessive or lethal force

MsDiz

Moderator: DS
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You're assuming intent in this case. Which there wasn't.



I wish somebody would explain this notion to me. Because I don't get it. Not a blanket statement like that.
I’m not even going to get into anything with you because you make it very clear where you stand.
 

dalpat077

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Oct 14, 2019
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Come on, man. Be fair here. There's a big difference between leaving someone to run away and kneeling on their fucking neck for nearly 10 minutes.
Unfortunately we'll never know. But had he stopped resisting, say, after one minute of being on the ground? Well, maybe, I'd be doing something more constructive this morning! You're not going to win this. Had he not resisted PERIOD (same as in ALL the other cases cited on just this thread alone) (Officer Amber Guyger being the exception): well, maybe, I'd be something more constructive this morning! 🤣


But say he runs away.
There are four cops with guns.
He has his hands behind his back.
Where the fuck is he running?
Well. I dunno. Go figure. Four cops with guns and his hands (cuffed) behind his back? Why the fuck did he carry on?

And if you tell me it was because he was under the influence and didn't know what he was doing: then what? Cops must do nothing then?
 

assclass

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cracher votre jeu

birdup.snaildown

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dalpat077 said:
Go figure. Four cops with guns and his hands (cuffed) behind his back? Why the fuck did he carry on?

I don't know how you connect the dots between this and (allegedly) killing someone.

So, he "carried on"'.

He's dead.

Maybe he would have died either way. It seems like you don't care?
 

birdup.snaildown

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MsDiz said:
What a fucked up country.

The USA is diverse.

Ireland has like a third of the homicide rate as the USA.
This is the same ratio of Australian murders to US murders.

Last time I checked, there were 12 states with lower homicide rates than Victoria (Australia).
 

dalpat077

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Well I'm glad I didn't get a lecture on the sanctity of, or respect for, or reverence for, human life from anybody.

The filth that was posted on one or two threads when Prince Phillip died? Didn't go unnoticed. And I have less time for the British nowadays than most so it's got nothing to do with any political leanings I assure you of that.

He was ten times the man I am (at least). And certainly worth a few hundred of this pillar of society. I'll bet you if I found some memes of Mr. Floyd that were off color (not literally) they'd not see the light of day. Not to mention one or two comments involving The Queen.


Maybe he would have died either way. It seems like you don't care?
He probably would have died either way. And no I don't.
 

MsDiz

Moderator: DS
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The filth that was posted on one or two threads when Prince Phillip died? Didn't go unnoticed. And I have less time for the British nowadays than most so it's got nothing to do with any political leanings I assure you of that.
I’d love for you to go to those threads and point out the “filth” please. Just for shits and giggles.
 

Pumpkin2021

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Hey.

Nice post.

As noted: started responding to you last night but it got a bit late to complete.

Didn't realize you were slightly older than me. So whether or not you agree with my take on things: you're at least in a position to understand where I'm coming from. And I suppose it goes without saying that being a white South African: my formative years were not too dissimilar when it comes to race issues. Sadly: old habits and indoctrination during your formative years die hard though. That said and as a direct result of my interacting on these forums: I have definitely come a long way. At least insofar as the race issues is concerned anyway. Of course: seeing the race issues in other countries has helped tremendously too!

Why the above? In these cases I no longer see a black man acting up. My first reaction isn't any longer "serves you right you fucking [insert racial slur here]". In this particular case: I saw a big, fit, hulking, well built dude, acting up even before any shit started, giving the police officers shit, and, well, we know the rest.

Why bother to mention the above? Point is: in these cases there's reverse racism applied and a massive overreach. But that will be denied and/or swept under the carpet and good officers will continue to be thrown under the bus. And if you ask me: that's all worse than being overtly racist. And I put it to you that the longer this carries on: the longer it's going to take for things to come right over there. It's almost as if America still has to learn what most South Africans have already learned (unfortunately it just took somebody like me a little longer) (if not too long).

Unfortunately though: I've seen it purported by some very clever and intelligent people that this is just something that has to happen i.e. go from one to extreme to the other and eventually settle somewhere in the middle. And it has been noted for at least a decade that there will come a time where so-called white Americans will no longer be the majority. They will be the largest group. But no longer the majority. And America will have a hard time dealing with that or coming to terms with that. But it's something that will have to be dealt with. It's just a question of how long it takes and what the cost. Do you really want a decade or two of this shit before settling (type of thing)? That's the question. Trust me when I say it's an utter waste of time and energy.

I'm afraid we do differ ever so slightly on the second paragraph of your response though (some of it anyway). I don't quite place such an emphasis on the sanctity of human life (of any color) (or anything else for that matter) in quite the same way as most around these parts it would seem. And I don't believe that all human beings are created equal and have equal value (again: regardless of color) (and again: or anything else for that matter). Case in point: I see a convicted felon, with a checkered and violent past (to put it mildly), giving police officers shit. One thing led to another. And at least one decorated police officer is now, in all probability, going to pay the price. To be fair: Officer Chauvin has had his issues in the past (based only on what I've been able to read about him of course). But I'd be keen to see how many times he'd been put out there on the line during his service and served the public well (not talking here of the few records and incidents, nor commendations, that made the news or Wikipedia i.e. overall during his years of service). As for society being to blame, or blaming themselves (seen here on this very thread) for where George Floyd eventually ended up: well there's some truth to that. But I'd say it's misguided. Look to your politicians. Mind you (and just an observation): Rep. Barney Frank (D) once noted that politicians don't parachute into The Dome i.e. they're elected.
Hey. Good Morning.Your post is really well thought out and you seem to have some strong feelings about the role race plays in society. I appreciate the post and understand why you feel the way you do. " the sanctity of human life" remark threw me a bit but so did your " so called white Americans". I guess I just don't see what you do. There is no question that the US has a lot of work to do in regards to racial issues. I'm pretty sure they were all brought to the fore from 2016 - 2020. You ALMOST sound like you believe " a fine and decorated police officer " had the right to do what he did. I see something totally different but that's what makes the world go round.

Like I said before. Police officers have the right to detain and subdue resisting individuals. Throw them on the ground and sit on them if one has to. The length of time one does that is the issue. I don't see any justification for 4 men to sit upon ANYONE that has lost consciousness, is resisting no longer, and has no pulse. They all acted with total disregard for the man and yes, I do hope they all pay the price. I want to see all police officers being held responsible when any life is taken during an arrest. I suppose the only justification is if the suspect comes out guns blazing and the return fire kills him.

Guess I don't have a lot more to say on the matter. I surely don't want to discuss racial issues. Chauvin let his emotions get the better of him. He didn't realize that this would become his 15 minutes. He knows now.
 

birdup.snaildown

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The Royal Family is a disgusting institution. As an Australian, I hate the fact that I have to look at the "Queen" everytime I use my currency. Pretty much nobody in Australia likes the Queen. When Meghan Markle said that shit on Oprah, I doubted her integrity. She seems like a manipulator. But, at the same time, the alleged Queen is probably racist as fuck.

Fuck her.
 

dalpat077

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Oct 14, 2019
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Officer Derek Chauvin's education and training (from Wikipedia) (so if it's inaccurate don't blame me).

"He served in the United States Army Reserve from 1996 to 2004, including two stints in the military police between 1996 and 2000. During that time, he also attended Inver Hills Community College from 1995 to 1999 and later transferred to Metropolitan State University where he graduated with a bachelor's degree in law enforcement in 2006."
 
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