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US Events Derek Chauvin trial and police using excessive or lethal force

cduggles

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Derek Chauvin is the the former Minneapolis police officer charged with third degree murder and manslaughter in George Floyd's death, which was caused by Chauvin kneeling on his neck for over nine minutes and twenty nine seconds, with Floyd telling him he couldn’t breathe.
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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Derek Chauvin is the the former Minneapolis police officer charged with third degree murder and manslaughter in George Floyd's death, which was caused by Chauvin kneeling on his neck for over nine minutes and twenty nine seconds, with Floyd telling him he couldn’t breathe.
Ok Wikipedia. 8) I read and saw in the trial that Derek Chauvin was on George Floyd's shoulder, not his neck, and that Chauvin is maybe 140lbs while George was almost 300lbs. If you watch the video I posted George Floyd eats his fentanyl and overdoses from it. Even George's dealer who was in the car with him sees him do this and says to him 'you are going to die.' Also George Floyd was a violent criminal and had lots of hard drugs in his body before he took the dose of fentanyl by his own choice.
 

Burnt Offerings

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Good to know that you can be murdered in broad daylight by agents of the state as you beg for your life and still have people do apologetics for law enforcement

Just like Eric Garner, we can all be reminded that Floyd was no choirboy, and when we watch the video evidence the smear-artists and propagandists can ask "who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?"

---------

Anyway, Chauvin like any defendant deserves an active and zealous defense in the court of law. It doesn't look good for him though IMO...there's going to be tremendous political pressure to convict, I don't see him walking away from this one.
 

PriestTheyCalledHim

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Good to know that you can be murdered in broad daylight by agents of the state as you beg for your life and still have people do apologetics for law enforcement

Just like Eric Garner, we can all be reminded that Floyd was no choirboy, and when we watch the video evidence the smear-artists and propagandists can ask "who are you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?"

---------

Anyway, Chauvin like any defendant deserves an active and zealous defense in the court of law. It doesn't look good for him though IMO...there's going to be tremendous political pressure to convict, I don't see him walking away from this one.
This looks like it's going to be another case where liberals' news sources just tell them what they want to hear (i.e. activism and advocacy rather than actually evidence based factual journalism) and they will have no idea what is actually happening and the verdict will be a complete surprise. I have been following the daily recaps at LegalInsurrection (highly recommend), and it's clear that prosecution has a huge problem in that Floyd was clearly fighting the police and had a lethal level of drugs in his system. The first time Floyd said "I can't breathe" was when he was sitting in his own car I believe, which means he was probably already having a medical episode (from ingesting more meth & fentanyl most likely). The behavior of the crowd is also unbelievable like you said and probably made the situation worse. because they had to dedicate 1-2 of the officers to crowd control.

If Chauvin is really convicted I can't imagine anyone would ever want to work as a police officer in MN ever again. I mean, Floyd made every bad choice imaginable, from passing a fake bill and refusing to make good with the cashier, to taking a lethal dose of drugs, to fighting the police, etc, all while having health problems including Covid. Why can't we just say that the police officers did they best they could in a difficult situation, and that they should be given the opportunity to lean from their mistakes (if any)? Putting the officers in jail for decades just seems completely out of line here, and they were following orders.

The cops didn't murder or kill George, his heart stopped and he was having trouble breathing because he overdosed. Even if he had been given narcan or taken immediately to a hospital he would have died due to the massive amount of opiates in his body.

By calling him an ambulance, upgrading the priority, and giving him CPR, the cops did everything they could to save him.

Also the woman who is supposedly an EMT who saw George Floyd overdose from swallowing METH and fentanyl knows she cannot voluntarily join crime scenes.

George Floyd was a career scumbag, and a deadbeat parent his children who won the ghetto lottery and who will waste the $ did not even know who he was at all. He robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint and placed the gun up to her unborn child as a threat for compliance. That’s who you’re defending. He wasn’t a good guy who made good choices with his life and got unlucky. He brought his eventual demise upon himself and it should be a warning to others that doing bad things leads to bad consequences. I’m not applauding his death or defending any officer’s actions, but these are circumstances that could have been avoided if Floyd wasn’t a habitual violent criminal offender.

If you watch the actual footage I linked above, George is saying he can’t breathe and that he’s going to die before cops even touch him.
 

Xorkoth

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It's funny, I was in the car listening to this topic on the radio, and wondering when someone would post a thread about it, and the thought popped into my head that Priest would have exactly these opinions.

I've been listening to the testimony by a bunch of witnesses, including other police officers, and his use of force was extreme and against protocol for someone who was already cuffed and subdued. According to other cops.

I don't care if he is a drug user (it sickens me when people on a drug forum especially will try to use the fact that he was a drug user as some sort of justification for this), or that he has committed crimes. It is completely wrong for a police officer to kneel on someone's neck for 9 minutes, especially when they're already cuffed and on their stomach. And begging for their life the whole time. Your whole approach (he deserved it, he's a criminal drug user scum, blah blah) is THE classic tactic people like you use every time this happens. It's disgusting to be perfectly honest with you. You say "Why can't we just say that the police officers did they best they could in a difficult situation, and that they should be given the opportunity to lean from their mistakes (if any)?". Well, I say, why is it that EVERY time we discuss this type of thing happening on this forum, you always defend the cops who did it and demonize the victim, and try to deny there is a problem with police brutality? I bet you'd be singing a different tune if this had happened to someone you care about.

Also you keep saying he overdosed, but as far as I know that is speculation, unless you can point to evidence (that isn't itself speculation).
 

steewith2ees

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I have watched this gavel to gavel since voir dire, but already it is apparent that their is no point opining on this as despite the prosecutions case totally supporting what we all thought we saw, once again the problem is our lying eyes and to suggest otherwise to certain folk is just a waste of electricity at this stage.
 

Burnt Offerings

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Putting the officers in jail for decades just seems completely out of line here, and they were following orders.

Just following orders, huh? Gee why does that sound so familiar

All the stuff about Floyd's supposedly poor character is completely irrelevant to me. I don't care if Floyd was a crazed mass murdering rapist, that doesn't give some random cop the power to be judge, jury and executioner over a defenseless subject. The idea that Floyd is somehow more deserving of being asphyxiated due to his illegal drug use is especially hilarious here though. Maybe you want to live in a world where all the cops have "Judge Dredd" levels of control over the citizenry, but I don't. All of the smears against Floyd are just distractions from the fact that he was murdered in broad daylight, as evident by the video and the fact that both autopsy reports (by an independent coroner and by the county coroner) determined that Floyd's death was a homicide.
 

Blueberry_87

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Just following orders, huh? Gee why does that sound so familiar

All the stuff about Floyd's supposedly poor character is completely irrelevant to me. I don't care if Floyd was a crazed mass murdering rapist, that doesn't give some random cop the power to be judge, jury and executioner over a defenseless subject. The idea that Floyd is somehow more deserving of being asphyxiated due to his illegal drug use is especially hilarious here though. Maybe you want to live in a world where all the cops have "Judge Dredd" levels of control over the citizenry, but I don't. All of the smears against Floyd are just distractions from the fact that he was murdered in broad daylight, as evident by the video and the fact that both autopsy reports (by an independent coroner and by the county coroner) determined that Floyd's death was a homicide.
The "We were just following orders" defense. I wonder how many at the Nuremberg Trials used that one?
 

Blueberry_87

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Ok Wikipedia. 8) I read and saw in the trial that Derek Chauvin was on George Floyd's shoulder, not his neck, and that Chauvin is maybe 140lbs while George was almost 300lbs. If you watch the video I posted George Floyd eats his fentanyl and overdoses from it. Even George's dealer who was in the car with him sees him do this and says to him 'you are going to die.' Also George Floyd was a violent criminal and had lots of hard drugs in his body before he took the dose of fentanyl by his own choice.
What difference does it make if he DID have 'hard drugs' in his body? If it was me instead of George Floyd that got killed, an autopsy would show 3 different controlled substances. Do I somehow become less important due to that? I'm a female and white, does THAT somehow make up for it? I don't understand how anyone can defend this cops actions, I watched that video and I was stunned to witness a man begging for his life while some douchebag sat with his knee digging into his back just looking around nonchalantly. Too many stories like this have been happening in America for far too long and cops keep getting away with straight up murder. Now that we have actually watched it happen on a video you still think they're in the right? There is no way that man is not going to prison.
 

Blueberry_87

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I don't care if he is a drug user (it sickens me when people on a drug forum especially will try to use the fact that he was a drug user as some sort of justification for this)
Exactly. How can someone post hundreds of posts all about drugs then make one saying part of why George Floyd isn't a victim is because he "used hard drugs." TF?
 

Deru

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I read and saw in the trial that Derek Chauvin was on George Floyd's shoulder, not his neck

I haven't had much free time lately, so haven't had a chance to watch any of the trial. I did, however, watch almost every single angle of video available and every single second of the raw body camera video the police department released for the officers. There is absolutely no way he was on his shoulders only and not his neck, if his lawyers argued this... unbelievable nonsense.

Putting the officers in jail for decades just seems completely out of line here, and they were following orders.

I actually agree with you here on this point, but not for Chauvin. For Tou, Lane and Kueng, this makes sense. Most of the three (if not all of them? - don't have time to look up more) were new and Chauvin was the senior officer. I would argue Lane should be the least responsible, as he asked Chauvin twice if they should roll him over, said he was concerned, and also went in the ambulance and aided in trying to save Floyd's life.
 

Bella Figura

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George is saying he can’t breathe and that he’s going to die before cops even touch him.
When someone is actually overdosing they aren't capable of speaking, let alone walking. They'd be knocked out and turning blue. Maybe initially he was having a panic attack when the cops showed up, 'I can't breathe' is a common feeling when anxious. You'd be shitting yourself too if the police were at your window pointing a gun in your face.

He didn't die because of drugs. Someone placed their knee and all their weight on his neck into the hard concrete floor for 9 minutes, whilst he lay prone with his hands behind his back.

Do you know how uncomfortable and restrictive to airflow that would be?...

I hope Chauvin goes to prison for a long time. I also hope the inmates spend every day kneeling on his neck and letting him teeter on death.
 

birdup.snaildown

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I don't think Priest was suggesting that he deserved to die because he was a drug user. If he believes he swallowed the fentanyl (on top of having other drugs in his system) this might have contributed to his death. We will never know, so it's not a very good defence.

I don't believe Chauvin intended to kill him... Whether or not he actually did kill him is hard to say. People who believe steadfastly that he did/didn't want to believe one way or the other.

Bella Figura said:
I hope Chauvin goes to prison for a long time. I also hope the inmates spend every day kneeling on his neck and letting him teeter on death.

Is that a joke, or do you actually believe two wrongs make a right? We either think this sort of behaviour is acceptable or we don't. Consistency is important.
 

Bella Figura

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Not joking no, I didn't say I want him dead too - not exactly wrong for him to go to prison for a long time and maybe get a little taste of what he subjected to a helpless man he murdered like a dog in the street. No sympathy for the piece of shit that he is.
 

birdup.snaildown

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Bella Figura said:
I also hope the inmates spend every day kneeling on his neck and letting him teeter on death.

That doesn't sound like a little taste to me. If Chauvin deserves to be treated like this, did Floyd also deserve a taste of the violence he inflicted on others? (Like holding a gun to a pregnant woman's abdomen and threatening to kill her unborn child.)
 

Bella Figura

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That was just wishful thinking on my part. Floyd may also have been a scumbag, but doesn't deserve to die over $20.
 
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I think it’s fucked that CNN an MSNBC are shamelessly broadcasting every second of this trial just waiting for riots to happen and people burning shit when the jury eventually will find this cop not guilty! These stations have already convicted him even before the defense has a chance to plead their case. It’s disgusting to watch these pundits stirring and stirring up shit everyday for the sole purpose of enabling inevitable violent protests (no matter what the verdict is).
 

birdup.snaildown

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