Benzos Delayed effects of kratom. Tapering off oxycodone

[zagor11]

I use Kratom for oxycodone taper but it either lasts freaking long (12-ish hrs?) or it has late effects.

When I take a dose of oxy "every 5 hours" (which btw gives me no high at all and therefore eases withdrawal) I can go 2-4 hours extra without any withdrawals. I am pretty much kratom naive and I just ordered a mini scale as mine broke but I am guessing I take 3-4 g twice per day. I have been using it regularly for less than a week.

Since I plan to taper my dose every 5 hours I though, with the help of kratom, I could either decrease my tapering dose of oxycodone or make it more extended.

I'm tapering at 50 mg every 5 hours of oxy right now. Can someone give me any suggestions please?

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

So, 50mg of Oxy every 5 hours or around 250mg per day? And your issue with kratom is that it lasts too long? Sorry I guess I don't exactly understand the question.

 

[zagor11]

Simply put, I get no withdrawals while on kratom. Daily rx'd dose of oxycodone is 300 mg.

I was tapering down by 50 mg each week or 10 days but since I just found out that kratom takes away most of withdrawal symptoms I asked if someone could help me suggest a better/faster plan like maybe 3 mg every 5 hrs or 5 mg every 8 hours. Anyone done something like that?

I have a gut feeling I could go off all the way if i keep kratom handy but am too scared.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Don't forget that kratom is an opioid itself so you're just switching addictions (but kratom seems to be much easier to withdraw from than other opioids)

 

[zagor11]

They say if you rotate kratom strains during withdrawal you can't really get hooked.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

Varying strains just shifts around the active constituents a little, not a magic bullet to avoid dependence. Similar to different cannabis strains. It should also be pointed out that fairly soon you will become tolerant to both the Oxy & Kratom combined. IMO I would make the Oxy taper as aggressive as you are able to tolerate because adding one opioid to another is akin to just increasing the dose of one. Kratom's Mitragynine is an opioid & 7-hydroxymitragynine is more potent than morphine so it's not a substance you can use then stop abruptly without consequences. Albeit more manageable to discontinue as KK mentioned.

(With regular Kratom use) Severe somatic withdrawal signs developed after 12 hours, and increased level of anxiety became evident after 24 hours of withdrawal

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25262913/

 

[zagor11]

That was one of my questions above weather I should just stop oxy completely and use kratom only? But my fear is, as I read on this forum that one girl did just that (she wasn't using kratom but opana I think) and her doctor told her not to do it because she can die from sudden oxy cessation at that dose (she was on 400 mg). I don't even know how to use kratom properly if I continue tapering.

For example, yesterday, I only took 140 mg oxy, 200 day before and I started weaning off 300 mg. My initial plan was to get take oxycodone every 5 hours @ 50 mg a dose which makes it close to 250 mg a day and next week again take off that much but with kratom I don't have any withdrawals whatsoever.

If I manage to quit oxy then I would slowly reduce taper kratom but until then I need a good routine for my taper.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

While I wouldn't want you to disregard your doctors orders, I would think twice about following others people's doctor's orders without knowing all the specifics. While abrupt cessation of opioids is a rough ordeal, it's not fatal without some serious underlying comorbidities.

Tapering usually involves reducing your intake at the fastest rate you are able to while finding a reasonable balance between comfort & suffering.

I would also suggest looking into these:

-Kratom-Megathread-V-6

The-Opioid-Withdrawal-Megathread-and-FAQ

 

[zagor11]

Thanks. My order was cancelled so the next order should be here in few days. Without kratom I already feel pain and had to up my dose.

Today I took a few extra pills of Dexedrine and it gave me a nice high. A different one than opioid of course but was nice and lasted long even though it was an ir rx. But I wont do it again in fact I'll reduce my regular dose as well. It does help my depression and sleeping problems but I don't need yet another addiction.

 

[kleinerkiffer]

I read on this forum that one girl did just that (she wasn't using kratom but opana I think) and her doctor told her not to do it because she can die from sudden oxy cessation at that dose (she was on 400 mg).

Afaik opioid withdrawal isn't deadly (except if you have massive diarrhea and vomit all day and die of dehydration) but I'm not a doctor

And as Jekyl said, rotating strains won't prevent dependence (iirc someone did an analysis on different strains and there was pretty much no difference; the activating/sedating effects are most likely due to different dosages)

 

[zagor11]

My order got cancelled and the new one won't be here until about next Monday. I am going go for it. Then wean off kratom as fast as possible. After that klonopin is next and if I manage to get off of those 2 I believe my depression will be much easier to treat.

 

[zagor11]

Today I took a few extra pills of Dexedrine and it gave me a nice high. A different one than opioid of course but was nice and lasted long even though it was an ir rx. But I wont do it again in fact I'll reduce my regular dose as well. It does help my depression and sleeping problems but I don't need yet another addiction.

Fuck I shouldn't have done that. Now my Dex has no effect at all

 

[apocalypse_when]

While I wouldn't want you to disregard your doctors orders, I would think twice about following others people's doctor's orders without knowing all the specifics. While abrupt cessation of opioids is a rough ordeal, it's not fatal without some serious underlying comorbidities.

Tapering usually involves reducing your intake at the fastest rate you are able to while finding a reasonable balance between comfort & suffering.

I would also suggest looking into these:

-Kratom-Megathread-V-6

The-Opioid-Withdrawal-Megathread-and-FAQ

Exactly. Opiate withdrawl is only ever fatal in people who are very, very ill to begin with and have serious underlying conditions... Or die from massive dehydration (which can be expedited by simply drinking water)

 

[Speed King]

TL,DR, but try a different strain. Also what Jekyl said ,

 

[apocalypse_when]

TL,DR, but try a different strain. Also what Jekyl said ,

IMHO, the whole "different strain" thing has been pretty much been shown to be B.S.

 

[Speed King]

It must be a placebo effect, because I had stimulant off your ass Kratom an dopey Kratom. I am a noob to a point so you may be right.

 

[apocalypse_when]

It must be a placebo effect, because I had stimulant off your ass Kratom an dopey Kratom. I am a noob to a point so you may be right.

TBH mate, I've never even had kratom before but having been reading extensively about its physiological and pharmacological effects as well as all the anecdotal reports on BL and from what I've been able to ascertain, the whole strain thing is mainly a marketing gimmick (so it seems anyway) and the difference in effects, i.e. stimulating vs sedating seem to be more dependent on dose. Most people have found the actual strain type and other vendor categories seem to make little difference.

Again though, I stress this isn't from personal experience, just from reading the anecdotal reports of others.

 

[Speed King]

Try a type, don't expect anything and see what happens.

 

[apocalypse_when]

Try a type, don't expect anything and see what happens.

I fear it may be pointless at present mate...

Not to bore you with my sob story but I received a fairly bad wound in Afghanistan, which compounded an old parachuting injury and then just for good measure, suffered a bad accident this summer on the same leg... This resulted in Rhabdomyolysis and subsequently almost dying from the resulting kidney failure (which I recovered complete kidney function from after 2 weeks of dialysis in the ICU).. It's left me with severe compartment syndrome, massive nerve damage in my left leg and a paralysed left foot...

As a result of this I was on 100mcg/hr fentanyl patch and 600mg day pregabalin.. My GP has reduced the fentanyl down to 75mcg for some reason (even though the pain has got worse not better) and I have my doubts whether kratom would do anything at all on top of a hefty fentanyl tollerance... At least not in amounts that could easily be stomached as I hear doses over about 30g per day are very hard to physically get down without being sick..

Unfortunately, doctors in the UK are following the lead of the doctors on your side of the pond in suddenly "discovering" that long term opioids for chronic pain "don't work" and are tapering everyone either off altogether or down to be measily 60-90mg morphine...

Maybe I'll look into it once im off the fentanyl... I've mainly just been researching it out of interest so far.