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Harm Reduction CWE on Fioricet/Fiorinal?

J

Jktm

Bluelighter
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
1,921
I'm Rx'ed Fioricet (Butalbarbitol-Caffeine-APAP - 50-40-325) Q4H PRN for Migraines on top of Propranolol 80mg BID.

I realize a cold water extraction won't get rid of the caffeine, but my main concern is getting rid of the Paracetamol. How should I go about doing this? Yes I do realize this is a barbiturate and that high/repeat dosing of this class of drugs is dangerous, but my tolerance to GABAminergic drugs is high enough to negate this danger (I'm actually prescribed diazepam with this combination despite the fact). Yes I do actually need this medication for migraine headaches, but with the ß-blocker, it keeps them at bay a lot of the time. Hell, my biggest risk is the mixture of the propranolol for migraines with procasin for nightmares (bottomed out at 86/53 the other day).
 
Or I guess I could just continuing to down 8-12 at a time, haven't ran into problems yet lol.

No, I'm not invincible. I just have conditioned hepatic functioning to APAP since I got my wisdom teeth taken out (40 Norco 10-325's + 60 Percocet 10-650's in 7 days = slight jaudice (tiny yellow streak on my cheek).
 
CWE will only extract codeine, and some caffeine. Butalbital has a lower water solubility than acetaminophen does.

... you could likely do a CWE like normal, and that's the codeine. Make a solution of 10% sodium bicarbonate in water, then add enough to cover the goop, mix it, and filter the liquid out. The butalbital will become a water soluble sodium salt and the acetaminoiphen will stay behind.
 
I don't get the Fiorinal; I get Fioricet. I just included it in the title since it contains butalbarbital. I thought a CWE might work, because from what I understood, most barbiturates were water soluble.
 
They aren't very water soluble as their "free acids", no. Butalbital is 1.7 mg/mL. (ref) Aspirin is soluble 10mg/mL in water.[ref] Both will get more soluble in alkaline conditions because they will exist as ionized salts rather than non-ionized acids. So you can't really even use bicarbonate to do anything, you'll also extract the aspirin.

The water soluble species of barbs is usually the sodium salt. Seconal is a sodium salt, sodium thiopental is one, etc. In the acidic stomach it's converted to the "free acid" anyway. And then back to a sodium salt in the duodenum.

Good luck separating aspirin and butalbital without chromatography or fancy solvents.
 
Barbiturates are acids so if you add calcium hydroxide, will you not get calcium butalbarbital which is insoluble?
 
I've been searching the web forever. I am not a chemist so I need some help in words I can understand. I have butabital/APAP/caffeine pills. I'm looking for a way to remove the APAP or at least as much as I can. These do not have codeine in them and I don't care about removing the caffeine, I just want to get ride of the APAP. Is there a simple way to do this? I have seen CWE methods and I'm unclear on if with works for my goal.with my pills. I'm also unclear as to whether once complete if I should drink the water or the "sludge" left in the filter. Apologies for sounding so ignorant but there seems to be many conflicting opinions. Can anyone speak with some authority on this topic. Again, I just want to get rid of the APAP and understand which component I'm suppose to ingest. Any guidance would be much appreciated.
 
I've done CWE on the mixture and much sediment settles out which I assume to be the APAP and any binders. I have ingested the clear water and it seems to have the desired effect. That said, I'm still unsure if I'm getting rid of the APAP or at least the vast majority of it. It would seem like I would be as ASAP is water soluble but I'd like to be more sure if possible. I've read a lot about needing to add various components to isolate the Butabital but I after some research it does appear to be water soluble at around 77dgF. Can anyone help?
 
So are u saying at 77dgf that it seems to be water soluble and okay to shoot up in moderation? Just curious cuz someone I know is always shooting up stuff and they just got fioricet and I really don't want it to kill them if and when they do it cuz I know it's only a matter of time before they do...
 
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