Opioids Cravings after 6 years

[undertow13]

So, I was addicted to opiates for a long time and it was a hell of a struggle but I've managed to stay clean from all opioids except Suboxone for the past 6 years (prescribed by a doc). I used many things, but my DOC was Opana (oxymorphone). I'm doing my groups, meetings, therapy, working out, I've cut off people who use any drugs (though that unfortunately doesn't leave many people to hang out with, but better than being around it). But these cravings I've been getting are a bit troubling.

I know cravings are normal to a degree but I keep having cravings for Opana specifically (not for other opioids I used)-- and they are so random like, I'll be browsing the web or playing guitar or be at a concert or just whatever and suddenly get an intense craving that lasts a good 30-60 minutes. My typical methods to fight/ignore cravings are not effective for these. Luckily it's not easy to find because I feel like if I knew where to find them now while I was in that state, I would get some. I don't ever want to go back though but that's how intense they are. Not sure how to stop these cravings -- usually there's some trigger I can identify and find some way to work on it, but like I said, these are just so random. I feel like these cravings should've lessened in intensity after 6 years on sub and it's a bit discouraging when I get them. I've been around dope and other things since being on sub, even dilaudid which was easily my "second" DOC-- but the cravings I had were just fleeting thoughts that were easy to fight and I was able to cut those people off without a second thought. So I don't know what's up with these, or why they are so intense, or how I can stop cravings I can't identify a trigger for. I mean is it normal to have cravings this bad this long into sobriety? I'm taking 16mg / sub a day -- I'm planning on talking to my doctor about upping my dose or something, or whatever he thinks, but other than that I'm at a loss. Anyone go through anything similar? Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

An addiction nurse told me that you'd keep getting cravings every three months or so and that this could go on indefinitely.

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

An addiction nurse told me that you'd keep getting cravings every three months ago and that this could go on indefinitely.

^^^ didn't wanna say it but i agree; one may never be rid of cravings... seems I am in a constant state of withdrawal most of my life: Do not let it define me and life goes forward mostly.
YMMV
just another "monkey" to carry around on my shoulders... prolly a quadzillion of them MFs ridin' my ass now... lol
Fuck em

 

[undertow13]

Yeah, my doctor has always said cravings will always be there on and off. But usually for me they're just fleeting thoughts -- they were super intense at first, but the more time went by without me using, the more I broke out of old habits and learned to deal/cope with triggers (and get rid of some) and so on, the less intense they'd get. It got to a point where cravings were just a fleeting thought and nothing more. What I find concerning is that my cravings for opana seem to have gotten worse with time.

Of course, we're going to crave our DOC more than other stuff, but I don't know why they started getting worse. And I can't seem to find any specific trigger, nor are my usual strategies working. I mean I haven't used anything yet, and a huge part of it is me never wanting to go back, but I feel like it's also because I know I couldn't get those if I wanted to. I definitely wouldn't wanna fall off though, but I'm shooting blanks trying to find a cause/trigger. A few years ago it wasn't all that bad, but now I'm getting them almost on a daily basis and almost as intense as when I first got on sub honestly. I would've thought that six years down the road, cravings would've gotten better (or remained the same) rather than getting worse. How intense are your cravings? Have you guys noticed them kind of wax/wane for (seemingly) no reason? How often do you get them? "seems I am in a constant state of withdrawal most of my life" < Pretty much how I feel right now. What kind of things do you guys find work well for you when you do get cravings? I don't expect them to go away completely, but I definitely liked it better when they were mostly just fleeting thoughts lol. I think I need some new strategies or some way to deal with these. Hopefully I'll figure out why they have gotten more intense/frequent but yeah I'm just looking for ways to cope in the meantime. I'd like to avoid going up on my sub since 16mg is already a high dose but I'll see what my doc says at the end of the month regarding my sub. Also, thanks for the input guys.

 

[burn out]

You're getting cravings because you're on suboxone, duh. You're still addicted to opioids. There is nothing you can do to get rid of craving while you're still taking opioids. I had the same issue with heroin and kratom. It didn't resolve until I finally got off kratom. What are you doing on sub for six years anyway? Get clean man, you will feel so much better. The cravings are a sign that suboxone has served its purpose in your life and it's time for you to move on now.

 

[Dr. Extract]

You should try tapering down a little from the bupe. 16mg/day is a hell of a dose and may even be building up to antagonistic effects now that your tolerance is exceeding it's mu agonism ceiling.

 

[Chris42393]

Id just drop the bupe and see if you can get some gabapentin from him (or just buy kratom and taper that). Gabapentin took 100% of my withdrawal symptoms away. Thats right, I said 100%.

All of have to do is take that for like a week or 2 (after stopping) and you won't have to be tied to that medicine anymore. It took all of my cravings away too.

 

[undertow13]

Second time I made a thread then disappeared, sorry guys. Life happens sometimes. I appreciate the responses though. I'm aware Suboxone is an opioid, but taking it along with counseling has helped me rebuild my life and kept cravings at bay up until this year. But I can see where you're coming from, since 6 years is a long time to be taking it -- and it wouldn't surprise me that being on it so long would end up having the reverse effect of making cravings worse. 16mg is def a high dose as well, and I know the antagonism is far more pronounced at higher doses so the whole "Building up antagonistic effects / being at the ceiling for mu-receptor agonism"-- makes a lot of sense. I'm definitely gonna taper down, gonna try to at least get down to 2-4mg or something. I'd like to taper completely but I'll see how I feel on lower doses and go from there. Just wasn't sure if it was the best idea given the increase in cravings (which unfortunately have still been pretty bad) but looks like tapering will actually help with that, so I'll be dropping to 12mg and go from there.

As far as Kratom, it didn't agree with me for some reason. Many of my friends had success with it, and we got it from a reputable vendor -- but for some reason it didn't work out for me at all. I gave it a good two weeks before going back to the oxymorphone and that's when I decided to get on Suboxone. Neurontin shouldn't be difficult to get though - I'm pretty sure my doc has mentioned it before in reference to tapering so yeah I don't think he'll have a problem with it. How much bupe were you on when you stopped and for how long? I've heard Neurontin helps with withdrawal, but it's my understanding that Suboxone withdrawal is like methadone because of its long half-life. It's typically delayed, taking a week or longer to kick in, and lasting for a few weeks up to a few months. I know for me there's been times where, due to prior auths and such, I had to go a week or so without it, and I didn't feel any physical symptoms until day 5 or 6. I'd imagine going c/t off 16mg would last a while -- wouldn't I want to take the Neurontin for a few months to be safe? I also don't want to end up with PAWS so I feel safer tapering for sure, but once I get to a lower dose and especially when I'm ready to jump, def gonna give Neurontin a try. Thanks again for the advice guys, and apologies for the late response.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

dilaudid

One drug I've always wanted to try myself.

IMO I really think once you had a good habit you're never 100% clean & the ghosts of Opiate abuse will stay with you for the rest of your days.
I truly feel for you & the problem you are in, I can relate a bit too well myself sadly.

Bupe is one hell of a strong opiate when you think about it though as it stops you having a rattle, your not really "clean" if you are taking that in my view but what the hell do I know huh?

one may never be rid of cravings... seems I am in a constant state of withdrawal most of my life: Do not let it define me and life goes forward mostly.
YMMV
just another "monkey" to carry around on my shoulders... prolly a quadzillion of them MFs ridin' my ass now... lol
Fuck em

This 100%

 

[MomaDance]

An addiction nurse told me that you'd keep getting cravings every three months ago and that this could go on indefinitely.

Addicts in recovery will have cravings the rest of their life. Granted, as time goes on they get less and less intense and frequent but you can be 30 years sober and all of the sudden that little voice in the back of your head starts to whisper.... if you entertain it, then comes the itch... you know where I’m going with this.

 

[Quere]

^^^ didn't wanna say it but i agree; one may never be rid of cravings... seems I am in a constant state of withdrawal most of my life: Do not let it define me and life goes forward mostly.
YMMV
just another "monkey" to carry around on my shoulders... prolly a quadzillion of them MFs ridin' my ass now... lol
Fuck em

Damn cravings are one thing but being in withdrawal permanently, that's fucked up.

I Hope You Don't mean that literally cause I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!

Well... maybe I would, they would have to be a real douche though

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I Hope You Don't mean that literally....

I am a user/abuser since early adolescence. Although I may have some "control" of usage these day; there is still the intermittent abuse that (usually) carries WDs upon cessation.
So, yeah... this is literally the greater part of my existence. It is part of my make-up/personality but it is only one facet. It does not define me.
Talk about cravings? LOL Craving some hydro/oxymorphone, ATM. Gotta tooth fuckin with me.

 

[Quere]

I am a user/abuser since early adolescence. Although I may have some "control" of usage these day; there is still the intermittent abuse that (usually) carries WDs upon cessation.
So, yeah... this is literally the greater part of my existence. It is part of my make-up/personality but it is only one facet. It does not define me.
Talk about cravings? LOL Craving some hydro/oxymorphone, ATM. Gotta tooth fuckin with me.

Yeah man that's no fun.

That's why I'm on methadone and at this point plan to stay on it for life, I would just in and out of addiction and experiencing all the instability and turmoil that comes with it if not for the methadone programme.

And where I live its not really that bad being on mmt. Once you've been on it for a while like me you only have to pick up from the pharmacy once a week and your gp handles your scripts and other day to day stuff.

 

[MomaDance]

Yeah man that's no fun.

That's why I'm on methadone and at this point plan to stay on it for life, I would just in and out of addiction and experiencing all the instability and turmoil that comes with it if not for the methadone programme.

And where I live its not really that bad being on mmt. Once you've been on it for a while like me you only have to pick up from the pharmacy once a week and your gp handles your scripts and other day to day stuff.

I take Subs. They literally (along with treatment/sober house for 3 years/meetings) have been a God send for me. Opiates are my NO GO zone. If I start with Oxy’s/H/etc I’ll go down fast and hard. I use/abuse other substances and am very honest with myself about it. My last treatment was in 2010 and since then I’ve managed to get a job which I still have to this day, but a house and live a relatively normal life.

 

[undertow13]

One drug I've always wanted to try myself.

IMO I really think once you had a good habit you're never 100% clean & the ghosts of Opiate abuse will stay with you for the rest of your days.
I truly feel for you & the problem you are in, I can relate a bit too well myself sadly.

Bupe is one hell of a strong opiate when you think about it though as it stops you having a rattle, your not really "clean" if you are taking that in my view but what the hell do I know huh?

Dilaudid is amazing but it's evil. They're all evil lol but the rush from dilaudid is super intense and also really short, not much there after the rush so you just keep doing more. I most enjoyed using it with oxymorphone. Gonna stop there cuz I don't want to go too far into that discussion lol. Withdrawal is terrible for both though. Out of curiosity, what was your DOC? I like how you describe opiate addiction as a "ghost", agree with that 100%. Certainly something that haunts you forever. And yeah, being on bupe isn't technically clean -- but I think it is better than the alternative. I mean it's definitely a potent opioid, actually only half as potent as fentanyl. But I think the way it works, the fact that it has a ceiling and also blocks other opioids, makes it good for treating addiction. It certainly helped me a lot. But I think people -- moreso doctors -- need to remember it is only a tool. A lot of doctors tend to just write prescriptions and leave it at that, when they should be encouraging/helping patients in terms of making lifestyle changes, mental health treatment if needed, etc. Otherwise it's not really doing any good, it's trading one thing for another. Being on it so long isn't the best idea either but I'm in no place to judge anyone for that haha

If I'm being honest, I don't think I've really worked on getting my shit together as well as I could have. I'm starting to focus on things I've neglected a bit, trying to spend more time working out as well since I've been kind of slacking and I'm starting therapy in two weeks, been procrastinating on that too long. Anyway, gonna be dropping down to 12mg so hopefully these cravings die down a bit. Unfortunately my doctor is being completely dismissive and doesn't seem to care at all about what I've been dealing with. It's irritating considering how long I've been a patient and I've been compliant the entire time -- starting to think he's in it strictly for the money. He insists that the DEA forces Suboxone patients to be seen once a month and that it cannot be called in or refilled, so if he messes up on the prescription I have to drive all the way out there (not close at all) to get it fixed. Of course, we all know that's bullshit. When people say pharmacists say it can be refilled he says they are wrong or lying lol, but it says on the DEA's own damn website it can be called in/refilled. Obviously new patients should be seen often but patients who have been on it and compliant for years, can be seen every 3 months or whatever, completely up to the doc. It's the lying that irritates me, he lies about a lot of things so there's really no doctor/patient trust and he won't even let you talk to him after group if you're having issues and it takes months to set a regular visit. Group is basically just random pointless talk before getting our scripts and leaving lol. Anyway, sorry for rambling lol but yeah -- just gonna do my thing and see how it goes.

 

[Quere]

Dilaudid is amazing but it's evil. They're all evil lol but the rush from dilaudid is super intense and also really short, not much there after the rush so you just keep doing more. I most enjoyed using it with oxymorphone. Gonna stop there cuz I don't want to go too far into that discussion lol. Withdrawal is terrible for both though. Out of curiosity, what was your DOC? I like how you describe opiate addiction as a "ghost", agree with that 100%. Certainly something that haunts you forever. And yeah, being on bupe isn't technically clean -- but I think it is better than the alternative. I mean it's definitely a potent opioid, actually only half as potent as fentanyl. But I think the way it works, the fact that it has a ceiling and also blocks other opioids, makes it good for treating addiction. It certainly helped me a lot. But I think people -- moreso doctors -- need to remember it is only a tool. A lot of doctors tend to just write prescriptions and leave it at that, when they should be encouraging/helping patients in terms of making lifestyle changes, mental health treatment if needed, etc. Otherwise it's not really doing any good, it's trading one thing for another. Being on it so long isn't the best idea either but I'm in no place to judge anyone for that haha

If I'm being honest, I don't think I've really worked on getting my shit together as well as I could have. I'm starting to focus on things I've neglected a bit, trying to spend more time working out as well since I've been kind of slacking and I'm starting therapy in two weeks, been procrastinating on that too long. Anyway, gonna be dropping down to 12mg so hopefully these cravings die down a bit. Unfortunately my doctor is being completely dismissive and doesn't seem to care at all about what I've been dealing with. It's irritating considering how long I've been a patient and I've been compliant the entire time -- starting to think he's in it strictly for the money. He insists that the DEA forces Suboxone patients to be seen once a month and that it cannot be called in or refilled, so if he messes up on the prescription I have to drive all the way out there (not close at all) to get it fixed. Of course, we all know that's bullshit. When people say pharmacists say it can be refilled he says they are wrong or lying lol, but it says on the DEA's own damn website it can be called in/refilled. Obviously new patients should be seen often but patients who have been on it and compliant for years, can be seen every 3 months or whatever, completely up to the doc. It's the lying that irritates me, he lies about a lot of things so there's really no doctor/patient trust and he won't even let you talk to him after group if you're having issues and it takes months to set a regular visit. Group is basically just random pointless talk before getting our scripts and leaving lol. Anyway, sorry for rambling lol but yeah -- just gonna do my thing and see how it goes.

Yeah your doctor sounds like an asshole

 

[LIE495]

I been on and of H for years. longest was 6. And about 2 month off the methadone program the cravings hit me like a ton of bricks. My affinity for H/Optiates will never subside

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

yeah i never wanna add another monkey that is gonna be harder to ditch than what i already have on-board. heard horror stories about everything and have experienced a few... this one (subs or the like) doesn't appeal to me for some reason.
i like methadone recreationally at times but do not wanna get stuck on it

 

[undertow13]

Not gonna lie, some of those stories scare me. I know some people taper off subs and have little to no issues, but others have huge problems despite tapering slowly. PAWS also seems to be an big issue with sub. Of course, it depends on the person, the dose, and the length of time on it. I have the feeling I'm going to be in the group who has issues, but I guess I'll find out soon enough. I'm doing a long, drawn out taper so hopefully that helps.

Obviously you're no stranger to opioids but still gonna say it, just be careful with methadone man. I used to use it recreationally as well, as did some of my friends. I got hooked on it briefly (brief only because I liked other opiods better, ended up just stockpiling it in case of withdrawal). A few of my close friends died from overdosing on that shit. Withdrawal is a nasty and long process too but I'm sure you already know that.

 

[NicoOregon]

You're getting cravings because you're on suboxone, duh. You're still addicted to opioids. There is nothing you can do to get rid of craving while you're still taking opioids. I had the same issue with heroin and kratom. It didn't resolve until I finally got off kratom. What are you doing on sub for six years anyway? Get clean man, you will feel so much better. The cravings are a sign that suboxone has served its purpose in your life and it's time for you to move on now.

Hey, Some people chose to be on Subs for life. Its all up to the individual and their doctor. Some people were born opiate addicted and Subs are like being a diabetic.
Everyone has their own path to recovery and I respect that.