RCs Complete Phenibut and Gabapentin assimilation

[darkbinary]

I'll try and be short and to the point.

I started playing around with phenibut last year in november, it gave me amazing effects and i fell in love with the stuff. I eventually upgraded to Fluorinated-Phenibut which is a RC stronger version of phenibut, about 10x stronger with a profile similar to baclofen from the initial research that had been conducted with it. I liked that stuff too and since my phenibut dose was getting so high I switched to F-Phenibut so instead of having to take 3-10 grams a day I could take 700mg of F_Phenibut once a day.

Trying to come off was not easy, i had terrible withdrawals and eventually got gabapentin and baclofen from the doctor. At some point when I had recovered from the withdrawals, and especially after a 7 day stint in jail, gabapentin alone gave me amazing effects. I would take up to 7,200mg of gabapentin a day.

Eventually the gabapentin stopped working, so i started combining the f-phenibut and gabapentin for a while. After some more time had passed they both completely stopped having any effect on me. No matter how much I take, the only effect I'll get from F-Phen or Gabapentin, alone or combined, is just a feeling of being very lethargic and sleepy and it makes me sleep heavy but only at super high doses. Otherwise I just feel nothing. Usually after sleeping hard from a massive dose i puke for the next couple days on and off.

I've seen this described somewhere as assimilation. Basically I can stop cold turkey and I experience absolutely no withdrawal, I also get no effects at all from these chemicals no matter how much I take, except for the lethargy and sleep which I think probably has a bit more to do with poisoning than being high. They've completely stopped working so much that it's like I drank a glass of water, no effect and no effect or withdrawal when i stop.

I don't get any more of the euphoria or lowered social inhibitions or enthusiasm and ability to take on mundane tasks and have a good time whilst I do them, no more of the cognition enhancing effects.

I've been completely off gabapentin, phenibut, baclofen, any type of gabapentinoid now for 8 days. I'm praying that I can recapture at least a fraction of what these chems used to do for me. I'm an ex-opiate addict and my cravings for opiates have been through the roof lately, I need something to take the edge off and it would seem I've damaged my secret weapon, phenibut and gabapentin.

I do have some hope of recovering the effects profile of these chems because after that one time i came out of jail back in february and resumed my gabapentin it made me feel great again.

Does anyone have any experience with these drugs and the effects/lack of effects i'm describing?

 

[Vastness]

Fasoracetam has been reported to upregulate GABA receptors and some people have reported success using this to reverse tolerance to Phenibut (and potentially other GABAergics, although IIRC I've only really seen Phenibut discussed).

Please for the love of god if you try to do this don't combine it with other substances however, and please please don't take so many GABAergics at once in the future... your GABA system must be absolutely fried. In my own opinion and also experience Phenibut itself can probably be used long term with sustained good effects with just a little discipline of use... but even this relatively benign substance is not safe in the doses you are describing, 10 grams a day as I'm sure you know is excessive and you are risking damage to your kidneys. The other GABAergics you mentioned are probably physiologically safer but psychologically much more potent and addicting.

I know life is hard but you just can't take something to take the edge off all day every day without those things stopping working eventually, the human brain just doesn't work like that and there isn't yet a substance that exists that doesn't exhibit some kind of tolerance. You need to stick to some kind of pattern of use, like 4 days on, 3 days off, or whatever works for you. If you feel like you can't stick to this you need to get some kind of therapy because you are just gonna repeat the same cycles of unsustainable use forever and just fucking up your brain more and more each time. 8(

 

[darkbinary]

Thank you so much for the well thought out reply. I will try and take your advice to heart and come up with a schedule for myself, i'm not sure if i'll succeed but i'll at least try. I am an addict through and through, there is no escaping or denying it but practicing recovery isn't giving me the same sense of well being it once did. I'm still on a quest for that magic formula that will fix me. I've come back to the conclusion though that I just haven't found the right formula yet. I'll give it a few more tries and try to be as responsible as possible about it.

Psychonaut wiki mentioned in its article on phenibut and gabapentin that tolerance takes 7-14 days to return to baseline, so at day 15 i'll try a dose and see what kind of results i get, but i'll probably need much longer than that seeing as how frequently and in large amounts i was using them.

When you said dont mix substances were you referring to that I should not mix anything with the fasoracetam?

If there is an upvote button somewhere that I'm not seeing please point me to it, I would like to give you kudos for your reply.

 

[Vastness]

I am glad to help! I don't think there is an upvote button but knowing my advice helped someone will be thanks enough.

I was talking about mixing things with Fasoracetam yeah, although some people do mix this with Phenibut, with, I think, mixed results. I actually wrote that because when I first read your post I thought that you were combining Phenibut, Gabapentin AND Baclofen so given your tendency to mixing substances throwing another relatively new and unstudied GABA modulator into the mix is just asking for trouble. Re-reading your post I think maybe I misunderstood that you were combining all 3, although even combining 2 of those is not really advisable.

Anyway best of luck to you in finding a pattern of use for you that works - I'm sure that there does exist a magic formula out there for you, although that magic formula most likely also includes responsible use and potentially some psychotherapy.

 

[Uber_Penguin]

Yes, as vastness said. Unfortunately GABA-centric drugs are pretty well known for having somewhat catastrophic effects in the long term, which unfortunately tends to combine with their level of psychological and physiological addiction potential to create a perfect storm of hellishness for anyone caught up in it. Unfortunately these drugs are crutches, not magical fixes, and just like crutches if you use them for long enough eventually the muscles you once used to walk will atrophy and you'll be reduced to a wheelchair, then a bed, then the grave. These substances are loans, not grants. Eventually you have to pay back what you take from them, and if you keep trying to cover up what you've borrowed with more loans eventually you're going to find yourself outta credit and real deep in the hole.

That being said crutches have their use, but you can't use them thinking they themselves are the answer, they're just something to support you while you find the answer, so I'd concentrate less on how to make these things work again and more on how to operate without them, as much as that sucks...hell, I promise this isn't coming from a moralistic standpoint. I'm an existentialist, I'm a cynical bastard who if it was possible to just consume substances to stay happy until the day I died I would, but sadly it does not work that way. The body will always adapt. So like I said, rather than trying to find some way to work around all this to make your tolerance drop so you can take more and trying to work your life around all this I'd consider lending some thought towards how to function without it. After all, eventually continuing WILL become untenable, but at that point the question becomes whether or not you've fucked your brain up to a point beyond repair.

 

[truenamebrand]

I have plenty of experience with both (in the case of phenibut it was catastrophically negative), though never really simultaneously like you. What I can say, and it applies to both — though in a much more profound way in regards to phenibut— is that the initial magic can never really be recaptured. My first time using phenibut was absolutely incredible. From there, I had some good experiences initially, but nothing like the first time. I got off phenibut and remained off for about 7 months. Against my better judgment, I gave it another go, and it ended VERY badly. The initial magic of phenibut seems to be lost forever.

As far as gabapentin goes... I have a script and, naturally, dosed in the recreational range a bunch of times. Though I don’t get the same mind-blowing effects that some people do, it definitely had its recreational benefits — at first. Now, even if I go almost a month without taking any at all, I can’t reproduce the same effects as the first few times. It just isn’t there. Tolerance skyrockets fast, and doesn’t seem to diminish.

 

[Jabberwocky]

So you can just stop taking these drugs and experience no withdrawal or rebound effects? Reminds me of when I was using really high doses of benzos a few days a month for a year or two. My tolerance rose significantly over that time (from 20-60mg diazepam to 400mg+) but because I only used a couple days a month I didn’t really experience withdrawal. Gabaergic tolerance and dependency are insidious. .

How often have you been using this stuff OP, and for how many days have you tried abstaining without experiencing withdrawal/rebound?

 

[AloeOne]

I was talking about mixing things with Fasoracetam yeah, although some people do mix this with Phenibut, with, I think, mixed results. I actually wrote that because when I first read your post I thought that you were combining Phenibut, Gabapentin AND Baclofen so given your tendency to mixing substances throwing another relatively new and unstudied GABA modulator into the mix is just asking for trouble. Re-reading your post I think maybe I misunderstood that you were combining all 3, although even combining 2 of those is not really advisable.

Might want to steer clear of the phenibut + fasoracetam combo, especially if you're trying to impact or manage tolerance... YMMV but if you're chasing a high it has the potential to get really nasty really quickly...

"A 27-year-old male with a past medical history of anxiety was discovered unresponsive on the sidewalk. Paramedics responding to the scene noted that thepatient had an initial Glascow Coma Score (GCS) of 3 and possessed an empty 5 grambottle of fasoracetam. ... While in the ED, the patient remained somnolent, and persistently bradycardic withheart rates ranging from 34 to 50 beats/min requiring placement of transcutaneouspacing pads. The patient displayed amnesia to all events preceding his presentation. ... After 24 hours, the patient was able to recall that he purchased phenibut ... and fasoracetam ... with the intention to stabilize his ‘GABA system’." ~ Phenibut Overdose in Combinationwith Fasoracetam: Emerging Drugsof Abuse

 

[Vastness]

^ Wow that's pretty interesting, surprising also to see all the reported hospitalisations down to Phenibut use alone, even though all of them are excessive doses and/or combined with alcohol.

Reminds me of when I was using really high doses of benzos a few days a month for a year or two. My tolerance rose significantly over that time (from 20-60mg diazepam to 400mg+) but because I only used a couple days a month I didn’t really experience withdrawal. Gabaergic tolerance and dependency are insidious. .

Your tolerance rose only using a FEW DAYS a MONTH?? This is really shocking to me if so, I know diazepam has a long half life, but, still... I would think that a few days a month would be the kind of ideal, sustainable dosing that would prevent the development of ANY kind of tolerance...

I'm curious also, when you say tolerance and specifically dependency are insidious, did you notice that even with this infrequent dosing, you still noticed negative effects on your mental wellbeing, when sober?

 

[darkbinary]

Yes, as vastness said. Unfortunately GABA-centric drugs are pretty well known for having somewhat catastrophic effects in the long term, which unfortunately tends to combine with their level of psychological and physiological addiction potential to create a perfect storm of hellishness for anyone caught up in it. Unfortunately these drugs are crutches, not magical fixes, and just like crutches if you use them for long enough eventually the muscles you once used to walk will atrophy and you'll be reduced to a wheelchair, then a bed, then the grave. These substances are loans, not grants. Eventually you have to pay back what you take from them, and if you keep trying to cover up what you've borrowed with more loans eventually you're going to find yourself outta credit and real deep in the hole.

I love the way you presented that and that analogy/visualization is spot on and priceless, good advice.

It is indeed over it would seem. I stopped all usage of gabapentin and phenibut/f-phenibut for 13 days. The entire time I was sleeping fine besides my normal run of the mill insomnia which just means it takes me a very long time to fall asleep, but once I'm asleep I can sleep soundly for extended periods of time without ever having the issues of 'twilight sleep' or waking up every 90 minutes on the dot that I used to experience when I first dealt with phenibut withdrawal.

Now I continue to take it but there is no point in going over my 3 gram a day prescribed dose. I usually take the whole amount about 4 hours before bed and right around the 4 hour mark the lethargy and drunken wobbly feeling hits, I do some silent meditation, a guided meditation and then pass the fuck out. I sometimes notice that I wake the next day with a hangover like it's hard to get out of bed and get myself going which I never dealt with when I first started gabapentinoids.

Does anyone have any idea what the potency of phenibut is compared to gabapentin milligram to milligram? I've been looking everywhere for some kind of data about this, I know it's highly unlikely to find anything specific about f-phenibut comparisons since there is little research, and unfortunately so much of the literature about phenibut is in Russian. If I could find a comparison between gabapentin potency to phenibut potency I might be able to draw some conclusions as to how gabapentin relates to f-phenibut.