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COMMUNITY PROJECT - Creating an "effects profile" for psychedelics

Are you interested in data from threshold experiences?
 
Yes. All experiences. We want to get a full spectrum of effects of all dosage levels, including threshold. Good experiences, bad experiences, excit5ing experiences, boring experiences. You could fill out the survey 50 times for a single subst5ance if it was for 50 different distinct trips. The more the better, as long as you're taking it for real (of course you are, this is the general you I am addressing).
 
I just did my last mescaline experience. I will be having another experience tonight, totally different, so I'll add that one + my last mushy experience after that!
 
Yay! Awesome dude! Thanks so much for participating. :) Please tale it as many times as you can, and if you have any friends who have had experiences, please see if they could also take it at least once.
 
Not much, no. Nothing has TOO much yet... LSD has 14 responses, 2C-E has 15, and those are the 2 highest. Mescaline has 5 responses.

We want to get as many responses for each substance as we possibly can, but at least 100. So we have a ways to go. But surely it can be done. :)
 
Please do! I've been trying to get Erowid to respond to me too, to see if they could post a link in various places there, but I haven't heard back from any of the times I've written.

Could you also include some of the description I've given it? Let me see if I can find a suitable one. I want it to be explained wherever it's posted.
 
Something like this:

I am recruiting people for a study I am fielding about the subjective effects of the different psychedelic drugs. I call it the Psychedelic Effects Profile project, and for your part it is as simple as following this link to an outside web survey and spending about 5-10 minutes filling it out carefully and honestly.

You should fill this survey out for a specific experience on a specific psychedelic drug - no combinations of psychedelics. I encourage you to fill it out once for each psychedelic you've tried, whether it was a positive or negative experience, or whether it was strong or weak.

The Psychedelic Effects Profile Survey

This survey aims to collect data points for a number of background pieces of information such as dosage, method of administration, set and setting, and so forth. It then collects ratings on a wide variety of subjective effects in a range of categories, allowing you to rate each on a 1 to 5 intensity scale with an option for "do not experience this effect". Finally, some pieces of general demographic information are collected (optionally) at the end.

The purpose of this research is to attempt to provide an ever-growing database of information about the effects of each psychedelic drug as reported by their users. I am working on a web-absed front-end application which will interface this database for anyone to view the results for research or informational purposes. A user of this front end could, for example, look at a broad overview of the percentage of users who experience all of the different listed effects of, say, 2C-E, and the mean intensity level of these reported effects. This user could then apply a filter to view the results for only all users using a dosage of 18mg or less, and to get even more specific, for those who had used it for the first time, or for those who use psychedelics approximately once per month. Or perhaps the user wanted to know the percentage of people who reported feelings of euphoria when using mescaline as a crude cactus extract outdoors, alone, and the intensity level of this. Or to determine the percentage of people experiencing glossolalia from smoked DMT, between the ages of 25 and 34.

To my knowledge, nothing of this scope and complexity has been done before. As the number of responses we get grows, so too will the statistical relevance of the results grow as the base size increases. The applications of this public access database will be endless. So please help to be a part of building this database by following the link above and takin the survey for as many substances as you are able.
 
Obviously replacing "I" with Xorkoth or perhaps general language.

And here is the link text... it breaks it up to post the whole link as normal in a post:

Code: 
http://freeonlinesurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?sid=hvw6fx9mmvzz82l599169
 
I just went directly to the masses of an off-topic forum's subsection dedicated to drugs and nude women and asked them to fill it out if they had the time. I know a few people are pretty experienced, so you will probably get some hits.

I'd also suggest inserting a BOLD and RED link on the first post of this thread to the survey itself. Being buried on page 8 probably doesn't help!
 
Anyone who has a place they could post this, please do so - you'd be helping the project move forward quite a bit. We need to do everything possible to get as many responses as possible for this project for it to work. Try to use the wording I posted in post #229 of this thread (the link is below that post if you need it) to introduce it. The more we get references to it on multiple sites, the more it will be visible on the Internet.

Next up - try to get Erowid to post it up... or at least to answer me.
 
Oh, awesome, they responded. They said they'd post up the project in a little while, after they finish editing the latest Erowid Extracts newsletter. :)
 
that's good news.

I'll be adding my experience from last night. I posted in Trip Reports if you want to label it for the directory.
 
Maybe, I'm wrong, but I'm calling bullshit on all the people that can discern exactly what psychedelic they've taken when dosed blindly. Maybe if the optional choices were all compounds that the person had taken very recently and very regularly. Objective effects like dose response curve, time of onset, peak time, length and type of residual effects, size of the pill or quantity of powder consumed, appearance of the substance to me are the best tools for discernment. Yeah, when pure, MDA, MDMA and MDE are easy to discern or meth and coke, or heroin and oxycodone are all relatively easy to discern within a given class, but psychedelics are so much different and very wide opened comparing a single dose of unknown purity of say psilocin, 4-aco-dipt. LSD for example is a totally different animal for me in my late 30's than it was when I was 14. The same dosage that would be visual euphoric and give me an inflated ego then, now just makes me uncomfortable, think in circles and causes me to get irritable and annoyed at people really easily. It's literally a completely different drug now. In order for me to actually benefit from it, I now have to take heroic doses, not because I have a higher tolerance, but because lower dosages have a totally different effect profile than they once did. 2c-b and especially the sulfur 2c's (2c-tx) is another example. One can do everything exactly the same, under the same set and setting, same dosage, same batch, and it be a literal world apart. I challenge anyone who hasnt taken 2c-i or 2c-b for two years to take a blind sample of either compound, having a third party adjust dosage according to how they relatively effect you, and be accurate more than 90% of the time. A few people might be able to tell the difference because they have a reaction unique to one compound or the other, but most people experienced with the two wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

Because psychedelics alter one's perception so heavily, the same person's perception that one uses to determine the effects of the drugs can create a mobius loop of essentially changing the effects of the compound.
 
I can guarantee for certain that I could tell the difference between 2C-I and 2C-B 100% of this time as long as enough of a dose was given to pass threshold. I think that once you have some experience with a compound you can start to discern it over something else. For someone who took 2C-B and 2C-I once, maybe they wouldn't have enough experience to definitively tell them apart, although I found them very different the first time I did each. But were you giving critique on the survey or were you just saying that, because the survey is for when you know what substance you're taking for sure.

And for the record, of course it's true that every individual trip is different from every other one even with the same dosage and substance. But when you average the responses of, say, 1000 people, I'm going to bet we will see definite trends in type of effects experienced by users of each individual substance, and each one will be different. Of course your own experience could fall outside of that, but I think it's valuable data to have. Or interesting at the very least.
 
I just added the NBOMe-2C-X (all of them) and NBOMe-mescaline to the survey, as well as 6-APB now that it's around and has reports.
 
IDK, for me at least there's about a 20% overlap between 2c-i and 2c-b experiences. I've taken a ton more 2c-b than 2c-i, but for me 2c-b was incredibly variable from on experience to the next, that if it didnt come from the exact container of material synthesized in the exact same batch that I've had for years, there were some experiences that I would've thought it was a completely different compound. Of course I found 2c-b and 2c-i different the first time I took each, but I also found the first and second times I took 2c-b or any other psychedelic I've taken to be very different as well. Fortunately I don't have much experience in this area, but I'd imagine taking a psychedelic not knowing what it is and correctly identifying it is something entirely different from taking two substances that you know what they are and comparing them. Maybe I'm wrong but I think the argument could be made that the name and ascribed effects to the psychedelic substance one assumes they've taken has some bearing on the effects they experience. Then when you remove any relatable experience in the subject's past by a number of years and remove information about the dosage from the equation as is the case with powders and pills it becomes infinitely more difficult.

Yes, there certainly will be trends in subjective effects, especially when descriptions of the effects have been looked up online by most before taking a known substance, but what does this mean or accomplish? If you give people a chalk pill and tell people that it will make them cheerful, there will be an increased rate in cheerfulness over a control group. This doesn't mean that chalk makes people cheerful.
 
Well we'll see then, won't we? Throughout this project some have thought it was worthless and some have thought it was interesting and valuable. Of course there is no way to predict what sort of experience you're going to have on a psychedelic, but I firmly believe that there are trends which appear when looking at lots of data. I mean, you say that every 2C-B experience has been very different. Well, I've also used lots of 2C-B, and although each is not the same experience, there are a great many things I experience almost every time, physical, visual, mental, and emotional effects which each experience shares. Some of those are also shared by 2C-I... as you say, there is a good amount of overlap of effects there. But 2C-I also has its very own effects that I keep experiencing. I mean, every experience on amphetamine or opiates or alcohol is not 100% the same experience either. No two experiences a person can have in life are going to be exactly the same.

And regarding the placebo effect, don't trip reports basically do the same thing? And yet, my trips are still different from whatever I've read of others' experiences, even if there are similarities. It is my opinion that this global community that we have online, where many people have shared their experiences and knowledge about substances, is making it so that we are all affecting each others' experiences... and each time a new experience is shared, it builds off of what has already been experienced by the collective. Personally I find that to be a fascinating concept, rather than something that devalues the sharing of experiences.

And using the chalk or sugar pill example, yes, placebo effect will cause a certain percentage of people to say it made them feel better/more cheerful/etc. But if you do a double blind study with a chalk pill and an actual substance that does what you're claiming the chalk does, you are certainly going to find a much higher percentage reporting the desired effect for the actual substance than you will for the chalk pill. The same thing applies here, I think. No, of course you're not going to get 100% definitive data... you never could. But it could be a useful tool for speculating or drawing conclusions or making decisions. You have a bunch of substances available to you and you want to to know which one has the highest percentage of reported euphoria, or visuals. You should always read trip reports if you want to make that kind of decision, but this utility will also allow you to drill down to see the numbers and give much clearer results than trip reports. Or perhaps someone is doing research at a university or something. This could allow them to obtain some statistically relevant results as numbers.
 
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