Harm Reduction Cold Water Extraction (CWE) Mega Thread & FAQ v2.0

[GucciSwimmingSuits]

While I can't speak to the H-1 reaction, I would stay away from Grapefruits or their Juice when dealing with Codeine specifically. It can inhibit some of the CYP 450 enzymes responsible for converting the Methyl Morphine (codeine) to Morphine. Then there's the argument for codeine-6-glucuronide as well.

Yup, that's what I've seen other people say too. From what I understand codeine effects come from multiple different chemicals, so I guess in my case I blocked some of them and enhanced others. Also, it's important that your stomach is empty when you're drinking cwe and grapefruit juice is not only a liquid that takes up space in your stomach, it also usually has chunks of grapefruit flesh in there(and if you're drinking the gfj like 4-5 hours before the cwe it probably won't affect the enzymes much).


What would you say about taking antihistamines with codeine? I've asked this question a few times before and researched it on my own, but I still haven't found any real answers, should you take it before, after or at the same time as the cwe? I have slight acid reflux, so I'm especially sensitive as far as consuming anything orally. Last time I took it after and it didn't seem to work. Of course I'm not expecting it to have any magical effects, just a slight reduction of itchiness and some added sedation.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

I should probably mention that after further digging it would appear that although WGJ-white grapefruit juice heavily influences CYP3A4 and inhibits pGP, it has a negligible effect on CYP2D6. The previous school of thought was that since it heavily effects the CYP450 mixed-function oxidase system, 2D6 would fall under that umbrella as well. The British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology while researching felodipine metabolism has found almost no influence on CYP2D6 & CYP1A1. 2D6 being the one that demethylates 5-15% of codeine into morphine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1873672/

On the other hand CYP3A4 does influence UDP-glucuronosyltransferase-2B7. Even though some of the data is conflicting, C-6-Glucuronide appears to be the most important active metabolite over morphine.

Modulation of UDP-glucuronosyltransferase function by cytochrome P450: evidence for the alteration of UGT2B7-catalyzed glucuronidation of morphine by CYP3A4. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15611481


(duplicate post from the The-Ultimate-Opiate-Potentiation-Thread-v2-0 )

Apologies! How much should one take, and if one should, would the piriton (antihistamine) potentate the codeine?

To answer your question, chlorpheneramine (piriton) will block the enzyme responsible for the conversion of codeine into morphine, so it most likely will decrease the effects of codeine, not potentiate them (it may make you drowsy so this could be seen as potentiation)

^ Oddly enough this seems to also happen with Promethazine and the antacids Cimetidine/ Ranitidine. Second generation/ newer antihistamines seem like the better option unless sedation is the reason for use.

Promethazine and chlorpheniramine inhibited CYP2D6 at concentrations that are very close to their therapeutic plasma concentrations.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11936702
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704133/

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Oddly enough this seems to also happen with Promethazine and the antacids Cimetidine/ Ranitidine. Second generation/ newer antihistamines seem like the better option unless sedation is the reason for use.

Yes, you're right. Because of this cimietidine is prescription only in germany (blocks quite a few CYP450 isozymes and ranitidine is around 10 times as potent)

Cetirizine would be the best option I guess

 

[Ganjcat]

Hey guys maybe this has already been discussed in this thread but I couldn't find it, you know when your squeezing the filter and you squeeze the last bit out so you guys throw away the sludge in the middle because I rehashed one the other day and it must have been a crap extraction cu s it got me high what was left I done 2 boxes today and I still got a feeling I didn't get it all so I'm giving them a second wash will let you know how it turns out!

 

[Ganjcat]

It's filtering now, for the second time idk they did taste a bit weak so I got a good feeling theirs gonna be some more

 

[Ganjcat]

Haven't had a shit since before Christmas I don't feel so great..

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

You might consider letting it stew in solution a little longer and/or agitating it a few times more before filtering vs multiple washes.

 

[Ganjcat]

^ I see what your saying but that still will not stop some getting trapped in the filter clog

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I don't use coffee filters at all - they clog and rip easily. My preferred method is thus:

Take a clean microfibre cloth, preferably one of the smooth ones designed for cleaning glass.

Wet it all over and squeeze out most of the excess water, then lay out flat on a surface.

Take a couple of sheets of kitchen roll (paper towel) and lay them down flat on the cloth. Pat down on the paper until this is also wet all over. The cloth and paper are your filter.

Take the filter and drape over a mug, glass or small bowel (whatever you want to use as a drinking vessel), paper side up, then gently press down in the middle of the filter to create a bowel shaped depression.

Take your ready prepared crushed pills and cold water mixture and pour into the depression in the filter.

Gather up all the edges of the filter and close together so that the mixture is held in a kind of balloon shaped filter above the vessel.

Starting from the top, gently twist the filter, slowly working down to force the mixture through the filter into the vessel.

The cloth prevents the paper from tearing so you can pretty much retrieve all of the codeine solution in seconds rather than hours by this force filtering method.

All you have to do then is drink...

 

[Ganjcat]

Hey fubar you know those yellow polish cloths quite common in the UK you think that would work better than coffee filters I meant to pick up a cheese cloth in town during my doctor/pharmy/dealer shopping but I'm skint now anyway but was just thinking on the bus back a polish cloth for a filter.

Btw I did a cwe in asda toilets although the ten minutes was a bit of hassle I defo feel better doing it there and then now the high is basically kicked in and I ain't gotta wait around I dunno about you guys but you must be the same as me as we're all human I think? ?

Whenever I dose of I time it before I go out the high is enhanced by my movement for example if I've been sitting in my bedroom for days that alone makes me depressed but it ruins the opiate buzz it comes on slower and weaker unless your not taking pills and smoking h even that will be effected by simple exercise my point is opiates make us lazy by nature but that laziness and slothyness catches up with you and if you don't wanna exercise for your health do it for the high the opiate high that is not the natural endorphin high which is always nice. I've wasted lots of high sitting in all day I've always been an outdoorsy person though.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

These look strong but the package says "The Marigold Squeaky Clean Microfibre cleans, absorbs and retains liquids like no other.


Don't laugh but when I was more into CWE's (my pills are single entity now) a round piece of panty hose was very strong and hydrophobic. I mean if robbers can stretch them over their heads you should be able to wring them out thoroughly right? You just can't pull them too tight over the mouth of the jar or there's no sag in the middle for the liquid to drip off of.

 

[apocalypse_when]

I've never found anything better than plain old coffee filters for performing a CWE. Sure it may take a bit longer, but as long as you rememeber to "pre-wet" the filter paper (to avoid losing any of your codeine solution to capillary action in the fibres) and you don't pour too much of your unfiltered codeine, paracetamol and water mixture into each of the coffee filters (to avoid having the filter split and dump the unfiltered mix straight into your collection vessel... if extracting a large quantity of tablets then use more than one collection vessel and filter.. Don't try and pour it all into one as this will cause the filter to break) then you should be fine...

You should be able to recover well over 90% of the codeine (or whatever opioid is present) in your original tablets if this method is done properly... Once the drip into your collection vessels has stopped and the "cake" of paracetamol trapped in the coffee filter looks dry, you can pour a small amount of cold water into the coffee filters to "rinse" any remaining codeine of out of this trapped cake of paracetamol.. This can be done once more again to capture every last bit of codeine so long as in doing so you don't increase the total amount of water by too much since the more water used the more paracetamol you will end up with in your final solution ("final solution" as in the codeine solution you collect that has run through your filter papers, not "final solution" as in Nazi genocide of the Jews )... oh, and these secondary "washes" need to be with very cold water obviously...

Best of luck...

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

^ A sound technique indeed and one I've used countless times without resorting to exotic filters or McGyvering (a US show about an extremely clever bloke) the process. The one thing I would point out though is that the coffee filters with a seam, usually the cone shaped ones, seemed to fail at a much higher rate than the flat bottom cup shaped ones with wavy walls and no glued or crimped seam but a solid piece of filter paper.

These ^ seemed much more durable than ^ these with a crimped seam.

 

[apocalypse_when]

^ A sound technique indeed and one I've used countless times without resorting to exotic filters or McGyvering (a US show about an extremely clever bloke) the process. The one thing I would point out though is that the coffee filters with a seam, usually the cone shaped ones, seemed to fail at a much higher rate than the flat bottom cup shaped ones with wavy walls and no glued or crimped seam but a solid piece of filter paper.

These ^ seemed much more durable than ^ these with a crimped seam.

Yeah, I know who McGuyver is (I think we occasionally got it onnsatelite TV back in the 90s).

I agree regarding the "seemed" coffee filters, they can fail quite easily if overloaded.. that's why its always better to use two collection vessels and filter papers if at all unsure about the amount of liquid you are pouring into them.. I imagine the flat bottomed ones you show there are much more durable..

I think the biggest mistake people make is not wetting the papers before hand... if you don't have much liquid to begin with then you can't afford to lose any to capillary action as the liquid soaks accross the surface of the filter paper....pre-wetting them helps stop this, although it does make them a bit more prone to breaking..

Sometimes, I would not even cool the solution and just let it filter through warm and then take this liquid and add 2 ice cubes to it and re-filter it...since it has so little paracetamol in in after the first filter, it should filter the second time in a matter of a few minutes.. In fact if you're ever in doubt and feel your solution comes out too cloudy, it takes only minutes to re-cool the water and filter a second time...(don't forget to pre-wet those filter papers though!)

I always found that setting it up and leaving it overnight ensured that all the water passes through the filter...and if getting up to use the bathroom in the night, you can give them a second wash as I described above...

When you wake up in the morning it should be ready, but can be re-cooled and re-filtered as I described if you feel it's too cloudy.. CWEs really are so simple that with a bit of patience, anyone should be able to get 90-95% of the opioid seperated out of tablets...a little practice, some patience and some common sense are all that is required.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Yeah, I know who McGuyver is (I think we occasionally got it onnsatelite TV back in the 90s).

I agree regarding the "seemed" coffee filters, they can fail quite easily if overloaded.. that's why its always better to use two collection vessels and filter papers if at all unsure about the amount of liquid you are pouring into them.. I imagine the flat bottomed ones you show there are much more durable..

I think the biggest mistake people make is not wetting the papers before hand... if you don't have much liquid to begin with then you can't afford to lose any to capillary action as the liquid soaks accross the surface of the filter paper....pre-wetting them helps stop this, although it does make them a bit more prone to breaking..

Sometimes, I would not even cool the solution and just let it filter through warm and then take this liquid and add 2 ice cubes to it and re-filter it...since it has so little paracetamol in in after the first filter, it should filter the second time in a matter of a few minutes.. In fact if you're ever in doubt and feel your solution comes out too cloudy, it takes only minutes to re-cool the water and filter a second time...(don't forget to pre-wet those filter papers though!)

I always found that setting it up and leaving it overnight ensured that all the water passes through the filter...and if getting up to use the bathroom in the night, you can give them a second wash as I described above...

When you wake up in the morning it should be ready, but can be re-cooled and re-filtered as I described if you feel it's too cloudy.. CWEs really are so simple that with a bit of patience, anyone should be able to get 90-95% of the opioid seperated out of tablets...a little practice, some patience and some common sense are all that is required.

Some of us are just fuckin impatient mate...

The thought of waiting overnight to take some drugs already in my possession goes against the grain.


Also, I really can't see the point of dissolving the pills in warm water then going through all the hassle (and time) of cooling it down to precipitate the paracetamol out. The solubility of paracetamol in water at 20?c is negligible. If you use a minimal amount of water (I use about 30ml) at 20?c or less, it is IMPOSSIBLE to dissolve enough paracetamol to cause you any harm. Plus, the quicker the whole process is performed, the less chance the paracetamol has of dissolving, whereas the extremely soluble codeine will get right in there...

 

[apocalypse_when]

Some of us are just fuckin impatient mate...

The thought of waiting overnight to take some drugs already in my possession goes against the grain.


Also, I really can't see the point of dissolving the pills in warm water then going through all the hassle (and time) of cooling it down to precipitate the paracetamol out. The solubility of paracetamol in water at 20?c is negligible. If you use a minimal amount of water (I use about 30ml) at 20?c or less, it is IMPOSSIBLE to dissolve enough paracetamol to cause you any harm. Plus, the quicker the whole process is performed, the less chance the paracetamol has of dissolving, whereas the extremely soluble codeine will get right in there...

Youve just got non patience mate lol

I agree with you but if only using 30ml of water, you have to be very careful not to lose any to the filter or to wherever else as a loss of only 5ml would represent 16.7% of your total and 43mg of codeine assuming a standard pack of 32 Co-Codamols... Taking your time and letting it all filter through increases your yield (all the more important the less water you use) and I forget the figures, but cooling the water down does lessen the amount of paracetamol that dissolves therefore allowing you to use more water and thus minimise losses...it's all those little extra bits that help you get the highest yield possible...

IMHO and all that

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

I think you both have valid points and either method would probably have fairly close results. I've used sheer pantyhose/ stocking material or a high thread count dress shirt fabric cut out, preferably with some polyester blend to make it even more hydrophobic when squeezing and wringing for a quick filter.

Then again with a little more time to spare, filter paper works a treat also and seems a bit more effective at the highest possible separation, but it would seem the golden rules are A) pre wet whatever you use, B) don't use anything porous enough to allow APAP to migrate through, C) allow at least a little time for anything suspended to precipitate out.D) Rinse at least once. E) Use a proper amount of water and chill if a larger volume is used.

Aside from that I think the main differences are slightly varying percentages of APAP and codeine retrieved. Both gravity drip only and compression through wringing are acceptable if the sludge or cake retained are close in amount, as long as the majority of the apap is removed the end goal of making it "safe" is essentially achieved. Esp considering 4 grams per day was acceptable just a couple years ago. If one method winds up with 300mg of apap and the other 500mg, HR has still been achieved. The exception being the massive dosers who CWE 70+ pills for a single consumption, in that case paper drip + chilling seems more appropriate.

Another thing is pills like Trezix contain Titanium Dioxide which will make the non holocaust related "Final Solution" (lol) white and milky, making it more difficult to determine if APAP is precipitating out and therefore should be given more time to determine that it's safe. Any precipitation would warrant a re filter and chill imo.

 

[apocalypse_when]

I think you both have valid points and either method would probably have fairly close results. I've used sheer pantyhose/ stocking material or a high thread count dress shirt fabric cut out, preferably with some polyester blend to make it even more hydrophobic when squeezing and wringing for a quick filter.

Then again with a little more time to spare, filter paper works a treat also and seems a bit more effective at the highest possible separation, but it would seem the golden rules are A) pre wet whatever you use, B) don't use anything porous enough to allow APAP to migrate through, C) allow at least a little time for anything suspended to precipitate out.D) Rinse at least once. E) Use a proper amount of water and chill if a larger volume is used.

Aside from that I think the main differences are slightly varying percentages of APAP and codeine retrieved. Both gravity drip only and compression through wringing are acceptable if the sludge or cake retained are close in amount, as long as the majority of the apap is removed the end goal of making it "safe" is essentially achieved. Esp considering 4 grams per day was acceptable just a couple years ago. If one method winds up with 300mg of apap and the other 500mg, HR has still been achieved. The exception being the massive dosers who CWE 70+ pills for a single consumption, in that case paper drip + chilling seems more appropriate.

Another thing is pills like Trezix contain Titanium Dioxide which will make the non holocaust related "Final Solution" (lol) white and milky, making it more difficult to determine if APAP is precipitating out and therefore should be given more time to determine that it's safe. Any precipitation would warrant a re filter and chill imo.

I agree completely..especially with your 5 "golden rules" so to speak..

Regarding the titanium dioxide thing, in the UK most standard Co-Codamol (8mg codeine + 500mg paracetamol) dont contain titanium dioxide but I believe the tablets which contain codeine and ibuprofen (such as Nurofen Plus) DO contain it...this is why CWEs using these tablets will be milky as Jekyl says.

 

[Ganjcat]

Ugh nurofen plus are impossible to cwe and if they are possible it isn't worth the time and energy they make good booster doses though.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Youve just got non patience mate lol

I agree with you but if only using 30ml of water, you have to be very careful not to lose any to the filter or to wherever else as a loss of only 5ml would represent 16.7% of your total and 43mg of codeine assuming a standard pack of 32 Co-Codamols... Taking your time and letting it all filter through increases your yield (all the more important the less water you use) and I forget the figures, but cooling the water down does lessen the amount of paracetamol that dissolves therefore allowing you to use more water and thus minimise losses...it's all those little extra bits that help you get the highest yield possible...

IMHO and all that

Yup. I like my drugs like my women - quick and duurty...

I ensure the filter is saturated before use and only use about 30ml water for the mix as the squeezing process will add the water that's in the filter - but not an amount likely to introduce more paracetamol into the solution. You're no doubt correct that this process returns a slightly lower yield than waiting for fuckin forever, but when you're using cheap as chips generic tablets that's not really a concern. Plus the method I use was designed for on the go dosing. Pull up in layby, crush tablets, mix, squeeze, bosh! 5 - 10 minutes tops