Codeine Q's

[3methylmorphine]

Good Day,

I hope if this is in the wrong forum you will direct me accordingly.

Regular codeine user (as well as a plethora of other pharmaceuticals) dosing typically around 500mg with a potentiator (50mg Cyclizine, 600mg Lyrica) for around 2 years (started dosing at 120, then increased alongside tolerance). I dont usually take any Paracetamol (Acetomenophen) containing products, I use 30mg Codine Ph. tablets, however recently I have noticed I do not get anywhere near the typical result I used too. I stopped using Tramadol as I know it can block CYP2D6 so thought that could be why, it's not. And I do not use any other 2D6 inhibitors and try to ensure a really healthy diet to keep the enzymes replenished.

I have began using some old 500/30's I have (using an extended CWE and evaporation) to increase dosage however to me, this seems pointless as I feel there may be some other reason aside from tolerance, and would not like to increase my Mu tolerance any more than I already have.

Probably should ask some questions but really the main one is in the body - whats happening here!

Others are:

- being a prodrug and causing such a strong histamine response im sure it would be pretty pointless me 'mainlining' any, and I don't want to convert it to desomorphine in my kitchen, but maybe would there be any point in dissolving a handful of 30's in water and trying a bastardised CWE then evaporating them to remove the fillers in the pills, maybe thats a cause?
- Also, one more I've often wondered is what can one take or eat to 'replenish' the P400's and make the pathways metabolize quicker?


EDIT - Another one, why is it when I do a CWE on 500/30's with a net value of 600mg (a pretty normal and well understood dose for me) afterwards when I consume the extracted solution, why do I get a pressure around my occular area and my temples where I don't when I take 500mg of codeine phosphate alone?

Reg's

 

[d1nach]

If your asking if removing fillers will prevent a histamine response. No. Opiates directly and dose dependently cause histamine release and 600 mg of codeine Even 100 percent pure nothing else would make just about anyone red

 

[Slow_Mobius]

I'm guessing it's just tolerance. Codeine has a ceiling affect, so you eventually reach a point at which you've saturated the metabolism to morphine, and the drug undergoes other metabolic pathways that do produce a potent opioid agonists.

Like d1nach said, the fillers are not causing the histimane response. That's the codeine itself.

You don't exactly replenish your cytochrome p450s. You can, however, take an inducer of cyp2d6 to increase the potency and efficacy of Codeine

 

[sekio]

CYP450 enzymes are not inactivated when they metabolize compounds, there is nothing you need to do to "replenish" them.

Consuming solutions tends to have a faster onset than eating solid pills too.

As for why your experience isn't as powerful any more: tolerance, man! If you need 500mg of codeine to get a buzz you have a serious tolerance developed.

 

[SS373dOH]

you've reached the point that all opiate addicts have reached, and that is your tolerance has grew and the weakest opiate is no longer doing the trick.

Two options here; 1. Tolerance break. 2. Stronger opiate.

 

[SKL]

All of the above, but I'm not really sure what you're asking, but I think the key here is that there is a plateau with codeine where it stops converting to morphine, no matter what you might throw in. This is somewhere around 600mg, but I've seen figures as low as 400mg in the literature. Obviously people with different enzyme levels should metabolize differently accordingly; but the point here, is that you have hit the margin for conversion to morphine. Codeine and some other more obscure alkaloids itself has some effect, negligible though, beyond that, and it's almost all negative, not analgesic or euphoric; that may be what's causing the increase histaminergic effects. You have hit the top, and presumably now have a codeine (really, morphine) habit that is demanding higher doses than you can achieve with codeine. So you will have to either taper down and quit (obviously the better choice) or start hitting the hard stuff.

You made a reference to "mainlining." DO NOT DO THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Not only will you still be injecting plenty of binders and such, but even pure codeine is not suitable for injection as it will lead to pulmonary edema when given by that route (and, in rare cases, otherwise.)

 

[kleinerkiffer]

You made a reference to "mainlining." DO NOT DO THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Not only will you still be injecting plenty of binders and such, but even pure codeine is not suitable for injection as it will lead to pulmonary edema when given by that route (and, in rare cases, otherwise.)

This
Injecting it can kill you and codeine is a prodrug and needs to be metabolized, by injecting it you bypass first pass metabolism

 

[dicko89]

you've reached the point that all opiate addicts have reached, and that is your tolerance has grew and the weakest opiate is no longer doing the trick.

Two options here; 1. Tolerance break. 2. Stronger opiate.

^totally agree with this. I have also hit the limit by doing high amounts of codeine through cwe I'm trying my best to have a few days off then start at a much lower dose.

 

[3methylmorphine]

appreciate everyone's comments.

I see what is meant by the celing/plateu effect and yes, it is mainly more histamine response than euphoria at this level and even with potentiators, there are more preferable experiences.

Mainlining - yes, that would be a silly idea especially if IV. Maybe IM with a micron filter and evap extraction, but I doubt that would be much fun in any circumstances. As I said, being a prodrug etc, I wouldn't waste my time anyway but thanks for the advice.

What I was getting at with the point in hand, is would extracting the fillers allow my body to absorb it easier prior to metabolism, my thought process is say each tablet has 10mg of filler, and I take say 28, then wouldn't there be essentially 300mg of chalk, or other shit in my gut blocking the absorption?

Also tolerence break wise, I have a few times had 7 day breaks between doses and still nada... maybe longer?

Thanks

 

[SKL]

no,no,no,no injecting codeine,period. even though that [used to be, primarily; hardly ever seen now] was medically used IM, it's a bad idea, has no advantages, really, and shooting pills, contraintuitively, while always extremely dangerous, is safer IV than IM as IV it goes thru built in filters in your heart and lungs (which is why it's a problem long term) and can form emboli (short term problems) doing it IM causes serious damage, plus, it's no better than plugging[1], although IV'ing codeine is a bad idea regardless as it will give you pulmonary edema and while I would never stick drugs up my ass, it's still an option, but the real situation is, your tolerance will continue to escalate and there is no safe and effective way for you to continue using codeine to cover it, so you must either (a) quit or (b) go for real opiates. period. end of story. by doing various things with stomach pH/fat content/etc and enzyme potentiators and opioid-potentiators in general you might be able to get something on the order of a probably <10% increase in your conversion to morphine with a hell of a lot of fuss, but it's just not worth the effort. you're left with two options, bro. every junkie here will tell you to take door A but knows you'll take door B unless you're possessed of a strong will. stay safe. and forget codeine.

This post or any of my communications do not constitute professional advice nor do they establish a professional relationship of any kind; I make no claim to any specific professional credentials; in person consultation is essential for any medical, psychological, substance-related or harm reduction decisions. While peer support an advice can be helpful, any content posted online, regardless of it's source, cannot, by it's very nature, substitute for an in-person relationship with a clinician who has had the opportunity to take your history in the larger context and provide professional advice with all these factors, and others, taken into account.

 

[noitaredom]

you've reached the point that all opiate addicts have reached, and that is your tolerance has grew and the weakest opiate is no longer doing the trick.

Two options here; 1. Tolerance break. 2. Stronger opiate.

This. I've been a semi-heavy codeine user on and off (mainly on) for over 10 years. Reducing your tolerance, or stronger opiates are now the only thing that will give the buzz back. But obviously, as always, anyone with sense would not recommend moving on to a stronger opiate unless necessary.

 

[no_id]

I was able to maintain tolerance at a tolerable level dosing 300mg in one time 2 day / 3 when it come to codeine.

 

[paranoid android]

Okay you made a reference to mainlining aka IVing Codeine and doing so would be the equivalent of playing Russian roulette with 3 shells in the revolver imo. You can die very easy from IVing Codeine so such a act would be stupid not to mention pointless. You can IM Codeine but i can't imagine it working much better then oral use. As for why the Codeine is no longer doing it for you i think tolerance e would be the obvious answer

 

[d1nach]

Anything in the cwe if wouldn't have a effect. It is much more likely if your using say a plant. Like I drink 16 cups of coffee a day which if brewed normally would cause a significant amount of carboxylics acids which can disrupt pH and electrolyte balances which can reduce some drugs effectiveness. So if you say where brewing huge amounts of poppy tea I would say it could depending on what other chemicals are soluble but the fillers and binders in are typically neutral for example magnesium stearate . Vs some plants if not prepared correctly could have too much oxalic acid and in addition to making you sick cause some drugs to not absorb as effectively

 

[LesFleursDuMal]

These cats beat me to it. And they're mostly exactly right.

Let it be said that codeine is a particularly toxic opioid and I recommend you use something else for recreational effects. Never attempt to inject codeine either, and be aware that CWE methods (the way most people do them) rarely remove all of the APAP so you're most likely still ingesting some on the regular. Bad news for your liver.

Other than that it really sounds like a tolerance issue. The solution here is not to increase your doses of codeine but to find a more potent opioid. Good luck