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Benzos Clonazepam doesn't seem to be working much after switching from Alprazolam??

alex_anders_8

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
19
I have written my actual question in bold​. If you do not have time for - or are not interested in - a little backstory and info, please scroll down to the text written in bold.

Brief backstory: I'm 25 years old and have been an addict for 6 years. I was severely alcohol dependant for three and a half years (4-6 bottles wine a day) when I developed a very severe acute pancreatitis. I almost died and was in hospital for 3 months. During this time I was being given IV morphine every 4 hours. I left the hospital detoxed from alcohol but with a new opiate addiction and a prescription for OxyContin and Roxicodone. Over the last 2.5 years benzo's have replaced alcohol but I've struggled on and off with addictions to benzo's, opiates, amphetamines and various other prescription drugs.

I had been clean from benzodiazepines and amphetamines for 14 months and clean from alcohol and heroin for 8 months. Never stopped taking a range of meds but mostly prescribed (Sertraline, Methadone, Melatonin, Diphenhydramine, etc).

Six months ago, my mam blacked out behind the wheel of her car and was in a bad accident (no other vehicles involved, but she crashed into the side of the road and the car flipped over several times. She was very lucky and came out of it with a broken sternum and severe laceration down her forehead the only serious injuries (plus a lot of nasty bruises and she was pretty shaken up). She had a battery of tests but they were unable to say what caused the blackout other than her heart and the electrolytes or electric impulses were just not picking up quite right.

Last month she had a second blackout at a nephews wedding, resulting in a lacerated arm and a fractured elbow.
She was hospitalised and more tests were done.
Two weeks ago she was diagnosed with a rare heart condition that meant her heart could and would just stop beating at any time. She was told she was extremely lucky that both times, her heart had managed to get itself started up again quickly because that very rarely happens. Most people with the condition just drop dead (like Sudden Death Syndrome We were told there was no treatment or cure and that it was fatal.
That day she was rushed into theatre and had a pacemaker, defibrillator and (another I cant remember) put in on her heart to help maintain a regular rhythm.
It will HELP to kick-start her heart again, but there's no guarantee. They also cannot stop her blacking out which in itself is dangerous (if she is on an escalator, or walking across the road when it happens, or she hits her head etc....)
Anyway, I have always been very close to her. I won't get into it as I'm taking the piss a bit with this long story as it is (SORRY!) but I have had a very difficult life and have gone through endless abuses and traumas. Basically, when this happened with my mother, I just gave up. I just don't care any more. It's one devastating blow too many.
So I started taking Xanax, Pregabalin and Amphetamine Sulphate.
The Pregabalin I only bought 5 150mg caps of so that was just a 2-3 day thing ('till I get more).
So I took 0.5mg of Alprazolam twice a day, plus 1mg of Alprazolam at night. I did this for ten days.
I then went 5 days with no benzo's.
I have all the things I'm gonna take in stock or w/e now. I have both Xanax and Klonopin, but they just arrived today. I am taking just the Clonazepam atm because I have no previous experience with it. I did my research and know that it is exactly the same potency as Alprazolam, but with a much longer half-life.

My problem is...it SEEMS very weak? Keep in mind the Xanax doses I took; 0.5mg would have been nice and calmed and 1mg would have a fairly strong relaxing effect. This evening I have taken:

18:00 - 0.5mg Clonazepam
18:30 - 0.5mg Clonazepam
20:25 - 1mg Clonazepam
21:45 - 0.5mg Clonazpam
22:15 - 1mg Clonazepam

I DO feel it. I am calmer, more relaxed and sedated etc. But I have consumed 3.5mg Clonazepam in a little over 4 hours. I'd say I feel the same as I would if I had taken 1mg Alprazolam in a similar time-phrame. To be fair, the last 1mg I took 9mins ago so probably hasn't had time to take effect. But even taking that off, why does 2.5mg Clonazepam feel like 1mg Alprazolam when they are the same potency??
They are definitely legit pills, btw. The Alprazolam I had were generic 1mg pills. The Clonazepam is Roache brand 2mg pills.

Do different people experience different benzo's in different ways? Is it usual the the "equivalent dose" of a new benzo may actually seem a lot stronger or weaker depending on the person?
Any advice?

Note: I take amphetamines all during the day and then mix amphetamines with benzo's by evening and then take higher benzo doses at night to relax/sleep. I take care of my mother by myself from 8am to 10pm. I'm not using again in a purely selfish way. I make sure I a energetic, alert and clear headed throughout the day. I do everything for her. I have clonazepam for severe stress/anxiety and alprazolam in case of actual panic attack and for sleep (until I obtain Zopiclone).
 
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Here's part of the main problem: Xanax and Klonopin do not match up an even 1:1. It is nearly impossible to determine an exact equivalent dose. Differences in pharmacokinetic parameters between benzodiazepines can be quite profound. Also researchers have not consistently identified equivalent dosages between these agents (wide range of equivalent dosages reported). There are multiple conversion charts out there and I just ran one. It read: 1mg Xanax = 2mg clonezpam (with low range being 1:1
Ratio or 0.5mg equal and high range being up to 2.5mg to equal 1mg). Vast range's here and they vary depending on what site you go to.

So according to some sources, 1mg of Xanax CAN be equal to 2.5mg of clonezepam (on the high end). While other sources say they are equal 1:1 ratio, but, because just like you asked, everyone does respond different therefore the reason for such a vast difference in their bio-equivalent depending on the source you read and it varies person by person. So yes, it does vary by person and is very possible as shown by the big difference in conversion ratios (from an equal 1:1 to as high as 2.5m clonezepam = 1mg Xanax).

Lastly, each generic company has different strength, fillers, and binders, etc,
all which can affect your absorption rate, AND the amount of active ingredient per generic. Example: one generic company called "Mylan" Clonezepam is bottom of the barrel, and may read "1mg tablets" on the bottle but my actually only contain 0.8mg per tablet. The FDA allows this by law because it's not considered a major bio equivalent difference. PLUS, add in the unknown fillers each generic has, and one or multiple fillers in one generic may cut absorption rate by --
for example: 25%. While another generics fillers may not affect absorption rate at all. Generics can vary a lot and there is countless research on it, and has even been reported in the news on how much generics are allows to get away with and how little oversight some of them have. The average generic contains 3.5% less of the ACTIVE ingredient, some
Higher, according to a New York Times report on generic medication findings. This again means each generic company will be different, and that itself can cause a major difference in some people. Such as if person "A" is unable to metabolize a certain filler in a certain type of generic and it affects the active ingredient absorption as a result; but person "A" is able to metabolize the fillers in another generic -- the difference will be profound for that person. While person "B" their system will accept both generics as basically the same and the fillers don't affect their body, side effects, or absorption of the active Ingredient. That's why Brand name vs generic and "what's the best generic" threads and questions are very common.
 
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I take valium each month prescribed for muscle spasms. 3 x 10mg a day so Im no stranger to benzos. As a matter of fact clonazepam was the first benzo I ever took and loved it. Valium is not bad, but it only seems to relax my muscles which is cool.......but I will say this. Neither does even close to what xanax does for me. It relaxes my nerves, my mind my muscles and just about everything in my body. If I wasnt already on oxys, norcos, antidepressants...bla bla.. I would tell my doctor straight up....."im not gonna lie, I took my buddys xanax the other day and it treated my pain/spasms wayyyyyy better than valium. As a matter of fact when I have some I need significantly less opiates. In my opinion it has more use than just anxiety and panic attacks. However as read above benzos all are different and work differently for everyone. If xanax works for you just use that. Be careful man. if you really think you need it just get a script.
 
I agree with a lot of what the above poster (Colorado) has to say. Clonazepam has a significantly longer half life and a longer onset/duration of action. It's not going to pack the same punch that alprazolam does for these reasons. If you're used to a more immediate sense of relief like alprazolam might provide, I can see how clonazepam might be a little bit disappointing. You might find a way to adjust your dosing schedule to make it work better for you, just take into account the approximate 3 hour peak time for clonazepam after oral administration.

My advice to you, is that if you really need benzodiazepines to control your symptoms, do not be arbitrarily adjusting the dosages like this. The positive effects you receive from these drugs will only wane at a faster rate.
 
Here's part of the main problem: Xanax and Klonopin do not match up an even 1:1. It is nearly impossible to determine an exact equivalent dose. Differences in pharmacokinetic parameters between benzodiazepines can be quite profound. Also researchers have not consistently identified equivalent dosages between these agents (wide range of equivalent dosages reported). There are multiple conversion charts out there and I just ran one. It read: 1mg Xanax = 2mg clonezpam (with low range being 1:1
Ratio or 0.5mg equal and high range being up to 2.5mg to equal 1mg). Vast range's here and they vary depending on what site you go to.

So according to some sources, 1mg of Xanax CAN be equal to 2.5mg of clonezepam (on the high end). While other sources say they are equal 1:1 ratio, but, because just like you asked, everyone does respond different therefore the reason for such a vast difference in their bio-equivalent depending on the source you read and it varies person by person. So yes, it does vary by person and is very possible as shown by the big difference in conversion ratios (from an equal 1:1 to as high as 2.5m clonezepam = 1mg Xanax).

Lastly, each generic company has different strength, fillers, and binders, etc,
all which can affect your absorption rate, AND the amount of active ingredient per generic. Example: one generic company called "Mylan" Clonezepam is bottom of the barrel, and may read "1mg tablets" on the bottle but my actually only contain 0.8mg per tablet. The FDA allows this by law because it's not considered a major bio equivalent difference. PLUS, add in the unknown fillers each generic has, and one or multiple fillers in one generic may cut absorption rate by --
for example: 25%. While another generics fillers may not affect absorption rate at all. Generics can vary a lot and there is countless research on it, and has even been reported in the news on how much generics are allows to get away with and how little oversight some of them have. The average generic contains 3.5% less of the ACTIVE ingredient, some
Higher, according to a New York Times report on generic medication findings. This again means each generic company will be different, and that itself can cause a major difference in some people. Such as if person "A" is unable to metabolize a certain filler in a certain type of generic and it affects the active ingredient absorption as a result; but person "A" is able to metabolize the fillers in another generic -- the difference will be profound for that person. While person "B" their system will accept both generics as basically the same and the fillers don't affect their body, side effects, or absorption of the active Ingredient. That's why Brand name vs generic and "what's the best generic" threads and questions are very common.

nailed it
 
xanax more for panic attacks, klonopin more for someone who has stress alot of the day, and they dont match up 1:1. all the advice i have atm.
 
I get prescribed 70mg Vyvanse, 300mg Lyrica, 900mg Neurontin, 10mg Ambien and 3mg Klonopin per day. With Xanax, you get more or less instant gratification. Klonopin might seem a little weaker, but you take it and its still doing its job 4 hours later. I love being on Klonopin. If your not too greedy, 3mg/day of Klonopin can take care of a lot of things.
 
I've tried many benzos and Clonazepam is the only one that hasn't seemed to work much on me (Bromazepam wasn't much better, though).
I live in the UK where doctors very very rarely ever prescribe benzos. Only ever Valium as far as I know and even then never for more than 2 weeks and usually only in people who have just been diagnosed with terminal cancer etc. So benzo's are only available in the very short term in extreme circumstances.
However, my anxiety and daily panic attacks have destroyed my life and made me suicidal from age 11 so I buy my own because I legit seriously need them.

I will stick to Xanax in future though as it works wonders for me, too. Thanks for the advice! :)
 
Hello friend
I would not take extra benzodiazepines after taking your initial dosage if you are tolerant. this causes your tolerance to skyrocket and also causes you to not know where you stand when taking benzos.

2mg of xan = 2mg of klonopin

When i take klonpin orally, it does not have not even close to the effect, of when you take it sublingually.

Ive been on Klonopin for almost 7 years. (ive been on other benzos too , found klonopin the best & most euphoric!) {used other benzodiazepines the 3 years prior which include but are not limited to flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam and chlorodiazepoxide (another favorite)}

Try dissolving the Klonopin under your tongue. Wait until it is fully dissolved and do not swallow it or drink.
also i wanna make note that even though ive been on klonopin for as long as i have, 0.5mg still puts me where i wanna be.
Report back after you try this.

(Your sources are incorrect, the standard benzo charts are correct & 1mg of clon is = to 1mg of xan as i have used both concurrently)

also, klonopin is less sedating , but has higher euphoria, as you shall see when you try it sublingualy.(under tha tongue)
 
Didn't notice your note at the end;
Note: I take amphetamines all during the day and then mix amphetamines with benzo's by evening and then take higher benzo doses at night to relax/sleep. I take care of my mother by myself from 8am to 10pm. I'm not using again in a purely selfish way. I make sure I a energetic, alert and clear headed throughout the day. I do everything for her. I have clonazepam for severe stress/anxiety and alprazolam in case of actual panic attack and for sleep (until I obtain Zopiclone).

Alprazolam probably, definitely, cuts deeper when you take amphetamines. its more sedating.

This may be the reason...

Ive never tried amph/benzos.

But i have a funny feeling it might be "leveling you out" (bringing you back to base/soberpoint) so to speak.
 
2 reasons (IMO)

1. You're tolerance is still there from Xanax. Klonopin and Xanax aren't far enough in dose strength, pretty much the same. BUT Clonazepam lasts 24-50 hours.
2. k-Pin doesn't hit you almost instantly like Xanax. That' another big reason.
 
Also, you wont be in W/D that's for sure having Clonazepam over alprazolam. Also at lease you wont have any W/D's while having Klonopin.
 
Didn't notice your note at the end;


Alprazolam probably, definitely, cuts deeper when you take amphetamines. its more sedating.

This may be the reason...

Ive never tried amph/benzos.

But i have a funny feeling it might be "leveling you out" (bringing you back to base/soberpoint) so to speak.

I don't take them together. I insufflate Amphetamine, usually within 20-30 mins of waking. I take a couple of long fat lines - to be repeated every few hours, usually with little bumps and mini-lines throughout that day.
The product is delivered to me straight from the "cooks" themselves and is always very pure...it varies from 74-82% pure amphetamine sulphate, which is amazing considering that the nature of the stuff and how naturally dirty and impure the drug is. Even "PURE UNCUT" Amphetamine Sulphate is (best scenario) ~80% or so at best . Most street speed/amphetamine is incredible shitty, the vast majority of it being approximately 5-15% actual amphetamine

It's a debate I've seen on here a few times: some people think mixing an amphetamine with a benzo will just neutralize each other and greatly diminish the effects of both drugs. Other people think it's great and that you get the best of both worlds with it: 1) Decreased appetite for weight loss 2) Easier to manage to sleep than on amphetamine alone 3) The Benzo helps prevent amphetamine side-effects like shaking/tremors, sweating, anxiety... 4) The Amphetamine keeps you awake and alert to enjoy the experience and stops the benzo just making you want to sleep.

A friend of mine described it as [this is the jist of it from my memory] "The speed keeps me awake, alert and not cognitively impaired the way the benzo alone would do, and the benzo takes away the side-effects of the amphetamine, like RLS, shakes and jitters and anxious or aggressive behaviour."

I find myself usually experience the combo in the evening, where I've just taken my last amphetamine for the day (unless it's an all-nighter :p) and taken my first benzo, I get an hour or two where I'm phasing off of the speed and onto the benzo. It's nice, actually. Makes me feel happy (even euphoric), is still given me a warm calm feeling but I'm also usually energetic, fast thinking/memory/wordrecall, cognitive effects improved.
It's like being really energetic white at the same time feeling peaceful and calm. Keeps food and sleep at bay
 
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