Chems in hydro causing psychoses

[phlegm69]

Pure indica (compared to pure sativa) has little effects on the mind and is just couch locking physically-good feeling muntedness, also does not last as long. So if we're talking complex paranoid creative thought patterns, or panic attack like symptoms you're much more likely to get that from sativa. However, because of the more addictive nature of pure indica (it doesnt last as long and you need it more often).. i could see that making people more agro once they really need a cone and have been smoking that mostly.

what?

indica is a much more potent producer of THC compared to sativa. that's probably why you are getting more psychosis problems....becausev all smart hydro grows use indica strains

regardless of strain...it boils down to THC yield when questioning psychosis. an indica plant, in general gives a good THC yield over a shorter period of time compared to a staiva. quantities will be lower but quality will be better with the quicker growing indicas

 

[Splatt]

Sativa produces more THC and less cannabinol. Indica is the opposite. With todays strains, no matter what you are told, I doubt you'll find a 100% sativa or indica plant. They're mostly around 40/60 mixes.

 

[gumby11]

Ive got a friend who is nearly finished a thesis on the connection between thc and mental illness. From what I understand there is a definate link on what thc does to your dopamine 1 and 2 receptors, and mental illness. Im going to call her tonight and make her aware of this site so she can post and explain it properly.

 

[EJ]

I'll back what Splatt is saying. Sativa dominant strains have a higher ratio of THC than Indica dominant strains. And the grand majority of strains out there are Sativa/Indica hybrids, though most are probably Indica inclined due to the shorter flowering period.

 

[phase_dancer]

regardless of strain...it boils down to THC yield when questioning psychosis

Ive got a friend who is nearly finished a thesis on the connection between thc and mental illness

Please tell me what this connection is. I know many people who have smoked heavily ( >7 g/ day) for the past 20 years plus, and I'm sure they would all love to hear that they are indeed someway psychotic because of the high levels of THC they consume!!

I believe you're either predisposed or you aren't. That may be genetic or caused by environment and IMHO it can certainly reflect your upbringing and the time not spent doing rewarding activity.

If I was to go by personal experience coupled with 30+ years of observation, I would have to conclude that Cannabis is a fairly innocuous substance. Sure, there are people who have psychotic episodes, but if technological and sociological factors are taken out, then the reported health problems associated with cannabis today as compared to the seventies tends to suggest us baby boomers may have been born with extra motivation as well as a few extra CB2 receptors

My bet is - based solely on observation - if you somehow could remove all cannabis from the market place, people would still be turning up to, or be committed to psyche wards with much the same maladies being presented today that are associated directly with pot. Sure pot like any other mind altering drug is undoubtedly responsible for some admissions, but there's no doubt in my mind that a host of other relevant and important factors would be involved in many if not most of these cases.

I'm under pressure, pressure pressure...and I can't take it no more... - Butch Quick



As for THC content of plants. Pure indica strains traditionally had higher resin content than pure sativa. Indica was used to make hash for this reason and Sativa strains were/are used to make hemp. Sativa was chosen for it's fibre characteristics, and ability to grow in crowded fields without excessive branching. Indica strains are of course smaller and more bushy, making them less suitable for hemp cultivation. Around the turn of the 20th century, medicinal products which contained cannabis products were mostly of the indica strains as potency was greater.

Today, most strains grown for smoke are hybrids. Sativa characteristics are mainly from dominant genes, so plants left to grow wild will usually revert back to sativa and lose some of their indica characteristics. Climate also plays a part in this.

 

[Splatt]

Maybe me and all my friends are schizophrenic then, because we all get bad effects from pot now, but I find it only started happening after we started using other drugs, like mdma and speed especially. Before other drugs, pot was never a problem at all, besides the odd police paranoia.

 

[gumby11]

Maybe me and all my friends are schizophrenic then, because we all get bad effects from pot now, but I find it only started happening after we started using other drugs, like mdma and speed especially. Before other drugs, pot was never a problem at all, besides the odd police paranoia.

Yeah Im the same Splatt, and know of many others who are also the same, lucky I havn't smoked for two years and rarely do other drugs anymore.

P-D > I don't know what the connection is as I am not the one doing the thesis, but as I said I will try and get my friend to post a response.

 

[rulerofthecosmos]

i agree totally that growing hydro specificaly cant be to blame for psychosis,however i would be interested in what effect if any people get from smoking hydro that has been sprayed with toxic sprays to kill bugs etc either without rinsing the spray residue off or relatively close to harvest, could be a different story...?also by hydroponic which means moving water do people literally mean only indoor grown using pumps?and or chemical fertz?because there are many variables to also consider like,people that grow indoor not using pumps,people growing indoor using organics!some people grow using hydro systems in glasshouses etc etc.......

 

[psytaco]

Please tell me what this connection is. I know many people who have smoked heavily ( >7 g/ day) for the past 20 years plus, and I'm sure they would all love to hear that they are indeed someway psychotic because of the high levels of THC they consume!!

I believe you're either predisposed or you aren't. That may be genetic or caused by environment and IMHO it can certainly reflect your upbringing and the time not spent doing rewarding activity.

.

The link is a casual one. In order for schizophrenia to occur an individual must also have a another factor that will contribute to the onset of schizophrenia. Some other idenitified factors are a genetic predisposition, periods of intense or prolonged stress (current research is pointing to a link between excessive cortisol activity and onset of psychosis) and a lesion to the brain due to birth complications in the perinatal period of pregnancy. There are also many other factors that have yet to be identified and no factor by itself has shown to cause the onset of schizophrenia. At the moment no distinct cause for schizophrenia, but when multiple factors are combined this can lead to the onset of schizophrenia in some people. Cannabis is one such factor. For most people, heavy use of cannabis is not going to lead to schizophrenia, however it may in succeptable individuals. the problem is that many people do not know that they are succeptable to schizophrenia until they have their first psychotic episode.

On the issue of cannabis psychosis, I believe that many of the effects of a high dose of cannabis are similiar to those experienced by people undergoing a psychotic episode. Alot of people who smoke have had hallucinations and delusions, panic type symptoms, disorganised thought etc. these also occur in people experiencing a psychotic episode. The main difference may be that these effects of cannabis and the symptoms of psychosis is the amount of subjective distress experienced. Also, these effects of cannabis often subside when the effects of the drug wear off. i think there is value in what the poster said about the similiarity of effects on cannabis in the D1 and D2 (dopamine) receptors and what happens to these receptors during a psychotic episode

 

[EJ]

I know many people who have smoked heavily ( >7 g/ day) for the past 20 years plus...

A bit off topic, but that is a remarkable amount of smoke. I have to ask, are these people experiencing any respiratory problems due to their smoking? If so, what are they? Also, do they smoke tobacco as well? I don't ask about tobacco use because of any compounding effect, but because i've noticed that people who smoke both seem to be less aware of respiratory problems due to the bronchial constriction nature of tobacco. It tends to suppress coughing, and then when/if they smoke straight green cannabis, they then cough like hell.

 

[lil angel15]

An article that relates somewhat to this debate.

25 per cent of new cases of schizophrenia in the UK may be due to cannabis
Medical Studies/Trials

If cannabis causes schizophrenia - and that remains in question - then by 2010 up to 25 per cent of new cases of schizophrenia in the UK may be due to cannabis, according to a new study by Dr Matthew Hickman of the University of Bristol and colleagues, published in Addiction journal.
Substantial increases in both prevalence and incidence of the disease are forecast by the end of the decade, with increases in schizophrenia starting earlier among young men in particular.

The research study matches historic trends in cannabis use and exposure from a national population survey against estimates of new occurrences of schizophrenia in three English cities (Nottingham, Bristol and the London Borough of Southwark). The researchers assess what might happen to schizophrenia cases if we assume a causal link between cannabis use and onset of psychotic symptoms, an association widely recognised by some psychiatrists and researchers and considered recently by the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs.

Exposure to cannabis grew fourfold over the thirty years to 2002, and its use among under-18s by 18-fold, say the researchers. If cannabis use causes schizophrenia, these increases in its use would lead to increases in overall schizophrenia incidence and prevalence of 29 per cent and 12 per cent respectively, between 1990 and 2010. (Incidence is defined as the frequency of new occurrences; and prevalence is the percentage of the population affected by the disease.)

Model projections suggest that if the association is confined to heavy cannabis users only, then approximately 10 per cent of schizophrenia cases may be due to cannabis by 2010. However, assuming an association between onset of the disease and both light and heavy users, then approximately one-quarter of new cases could be due to cannabis.

John Macleod, co-author and academic GP, said: "We need to remember that our study does not address the question whether cannabis causes schizophrenia: this remains unclear."

Matthew Hickman, lead author of the study, added: "The challenge now is to improve our data on schizophrenia occurrence to see whether the projected increase occurs. This will tell us more about how important cannabis is as a cause of schizophrenia."

News-Medical.Net

 

[rulerofthecosmos]

John Macleod, co-author and academic GP, said: "We need to remember that our study does not address the question whether cannabis causes schizophrenia: this remains unclear."

^^^^i think this sums the whole thread up pretty nicely..!

and to make a prediction/assumption/educated guess over a matter that is yet to be proven, to me seems pretty pointless and sounds like the british government and media making a big deal over nothing really!

 

[insanit_e]

I've been thinking about this alot lately. See, where i'm from is in the country, so everyone grows all natural bush buds. I've been smoking bush weed every day for about 6 months, and nearly every day for about a year before that... and I am totally fine. I went really well in my HSC (even though i was smoking EVERY day during exams), I have a job, I'm at university and getting good marks, I have great relationships with my friends and family.... all the stuff people say about pot just hasn't applied to me, or my brothers, or my friends who all smoke bush weed.

However I DO know several people who HAVE gotten fucked up from weed, whether it be full-on psychoses or just becoming total stoner drop-outs, but they're all the city kids who only smoke hydro. I reckon hydro in general is hell dodgy, and it seems as though it fucks people up alot more than bush weed does.

 

[stephaniesomewhere]

there's proportionally more people in the city therefore more people smoking so therefore you are going to see more people going off the rails...whether the pot did it or not being in the city and smoking is not necessarily proof that it was the pot that was responsible, maybe it was the lifestyle?

 

[phase_dancer]

I have to ask, are these people experiencing any respiratory problems due to their smoking? If so, what are they?

Yes, some do some don't. Some seem to have a bit of a smoker's cough.

Also, do they smoke tobacco as well? I don't ask about tobacco use because of any compounding effect, but because i've noticed that people who smoke both seem to be less aware of respiratory problems due to the bronchial constriction nature of tobacco. It tends to suppress coughing, and then when/if they smoke straight green cannabis, they then cough like hell.

Some do smoke tobacco, some don't. It's interesting that you mention the bronchial contrictive nature of tobacco. From my observations, it's the cannabis only smokers that seem most affected.