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Tryptamines Changa, Ayahuasca and Pharmahuasca; comparing afterglows and mental health benefits

Entelocracy

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The possible benefits of Aya have by now been (fairly) well documented.

Can anyone speak to whether changa has similar benefits? I don't have the time or space to dedicate to regular Aya use, but could see myself using changa with some regularity. I can recall one experience where I had a positively, err, glowing afterglow, and there was a good run of pharma and shrooma-huasca use with strong positive effects as well.

Has anyone here engaged with these materials on a regular basis? And, if so, what benefits did you see?
 

Ismene2

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Well i take 4aco-dmt rather than aya because im not keen on vomiting, it has a massive positive effect on depression. Simply knowing at the weekend you will be dancing and laughing till you ribs hurt has to help you when you are blue.

Is the maoi much of a player? I always had the idea dmt is the star 😀
 
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emkee_reinvented

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Can anyone state the difference between Ayahuasca in a home setting vs the session's of 'União do Vegetal' or 'Santo Daimo'. That seems of more importance then the smoking vs ingesting question.

Doctrine, 'chanting' seems to contribute not only to the right experience also to a more healing experience.
 

Ismene2

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Santo daime crowbar catholic beliefs into the aya experience - its utter nonsense.
 

Entelocracy

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In my experience the maoi does make a difference, though it might just be that it effects a higher dose by limiting the breakdown of actives.
My most substantial breakthroughs have always been with rue, psilocybin and dmt combined.
 

Entelocracy

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Tetrahydroharmine present in udv and SD brews from caapi might be responsible for some of the difference in benefits, if indeed they are superior.
The focus on concentrated 'working' might also be significant... Intentional chanting/singing to direct the experience away from unbridled rumination might be helpful as well.

The 'Catholic' traditions also might prefer use of lower doses more frequently as opposed to higher dose 'breakthroughs'.
 

emkee_reinvented

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Santo daime crowbar catholic beliefs into the aya experience - its utter nonsense.
So the doctrine means nothing in directing the experience? My preference is União do Vegetal in the sense i read the book and understand what the writer means. I have no experience with DMT or Ayahuasca.

Catholic, me shiver's of true religious institution's.
 
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Ismene2

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I flicked thru a lot of santo daime books - never had an experience on dmt similar to any they talked about... "Are you seeing mary mother of god yet?".

Never quite god the concept of a stranger guide your own experience - it must be like the vicar of dibley...on aya...😀
 

emkee_reinvented

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I flicked thru a lot of santo daime books - never had an experience on dmt similar to any they talked about... "Are you seeing mary mother of god yet?".

Never quite god the concept of a stranger guide your own experience - it must be like the vicar of dibley...on aya...😀
The doctrine, the chants that are done during the session are according to União do Vegetal, directing the trip into the right direction. The word's, chants and music is what makes the difference between their sessions and that of the random shaman or DIY European.

No clue what the Daimo do, they have something alike but I am not convinced.
 

Lydian Jester

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Ayahuasca feels like it is cleaning your body out which I didn't recall having on ehanced leaf which if you're not aware is just changa but no mao or maoi whichever it is, so just dmt infused into some plant material.

I'm not sure if that's just wishful thinking that aya is cleaning you out but a lot of people seem to feel this way. Both are potentially wonderful for depression/lack of motivation or just having a downright fantastic time. I was taking a fair amount of aya last summer, like once 3 days in a row and it was making me really sick every time, but I beleive it was indicating I need to change my diet dramatically and or do some more fasting or something else and thus motivated me to experiment more with diet, specifically a higher carb approach and clean myself out more, still experimenting though.
Or in regards to ayahuasca cleaning out the vosy maybe someone can tell me I don't know a thing and the ayahuasca is actually just making me sick lol, be nice to know at the very least. I haven't even touched it for like 10 months now despite a desire to explore the realm because the entire time is unenjoyable bodily pain. Could be that I just dont respond to the vine very well. Rue still hurt, but not nearly as much. Or I'm just making the brew bad might be another potential thing.
 

TripSitterNZ

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if you need to take regular heavy duty trip like ayahuasca then its only going to damage you. If you didn't get cured of all your problems within 6-10 trips on it thens it chasing a dragon that will never solve anything. The only way to heal is by integration and not going back and blowing your mind 24/7. You time and alot of time to digest something as powerful as DMT.
 

Lydian Jester

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Oh yeah, I mean yeah I guess even the psyches can have some compusive pull I'll admit they did on me and have at other times where I took back to back days or like 3 times within a 5 day period or something as such. Not even sure a week is long enough for me for mushrooms atleast. Still I'm really not worried about addiction to any psychedelic drugs even vaped DMT which I found kinda compulsive I would vape it a couple days in a row, but really again I just needed something else to occupy my time and I think I could have managed to vape less DMT, especially if it started to become a problem and also when I ran out it was no problem or taking a week off just because I felt I should.

I just remembered a crucial point and I'm really sorry I left this out, but I didn't puke for most of those trips. The ayahuasca stayed inside me, all of it. I just literally consumed it all for except like 2 out of maybe 15 trips on aya that summer or something who knows. Yeah also like I freaking just don't know if I can trust how I feel about what my body is telling me on psychedelics, I mean I was thinking I maybe have an infection or something, yeah hope not, will start small next experiment and also maybe I should try eating a certain type of food before consuming the next brew I make or pharma trip and see if I can force myself to puke like that. Or force myself to puke through some other means.

Yeah, also in terms of afterglows and health effects between ayahuasca vs pharma I don't think I noticed a difference in brew vs pharma made from the same material in really anyway besides each trip just being unique to the others because that's just how it is. I don't see why those should be any different, unless the act of taking a pill vs consuming a horrendous tasting brew can influence ones inner workings, no clue, just guessing.
 

Entelocracy

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Yeah, logically I don't see why pharma would be any different from Aya... I was more wondering about changa, with the shorter duration
 

emkee_reinvented

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I flicked thru a lot of santo daime books - never had an experience on dmt similar to any they talked about... "Are you seeing mary mother of god yet?".

Never quite god the concept of a stranger guide your own experience - it must be like the vicar of dibley...on aya...😀
Did you read the book of União do Vegetal.

According to that book the Santo Daimo is doing it wrong, not that they mention that in the book but you can conclude it yourself if you belief in their text. Not as wrong as the bonfire Shaman's or westerner's preparing their own pharma or Ayahuasca?
 
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