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Chamomile and Valerian safety on phenibut taper?

Yepimonfire

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
6
Considering larger amounts of these must be used to actually do anything to me, I'm concerned with the safety of them, specifically concerning withdrawal possibilities. Right now I'm taking 1500-2000mg valerian extract to sleep (regular high end of dosing spectrum is like 900mg), and chamomile as needed at anywhere between 700mg (whole flower, not extract) to 2100mg a day, bottle says to take this amount spread out over three doses, but considering the anxiety is worse sometimes and barely there others, i sometimes opt to take a bigger dose at once or split the 2100 mg up throughout the evening/night.

On the phenibut, this is my third attempt at tapering, originally got started because of bad anxiety, decided to taper initially at 8 grams, got down to 3.5, went back up to 12 grams, got down to 2 on the second attempt, then shot up to 14 grams the third time, few months later, I'm now back down to 5.5g. Every time i fail is because of withdrawal symptoms and anxiety so this time i've come prepared. I usually cut the dose by 500mg every 7 days, the first 3 days post drop are either mildly annoying or very rough, it depends, sometimes it's pretty bad. It's mainly bad anxiety, depression and anhedonia, pounding heart, crawling skin on my legs at the worst times, and insomnia if it weren't for the valerian, 10mg melatonin, 25-50mg doxylamine succinate (which seems to knock me out anxious or not) and chamomile. A lot of this is simply a magnification of my pre-existing anxiety disorder.

How safe is this? Is it possible to develop a secondary dependence on the chamomile and valerian? They're very mild compared to something like valium or xanax, but they take the edge off at a high dose. I also have gabapentin reserved for a worst case scenario when nothing seems to help, haven't touched it and probably won't.
 

herbavore

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
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14,932
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in a dream
I don't think there is any data on this at this point so it will be interesting to see if any one in the BL community has had relevant experiences. Your dosages are quite high compared to those recommended but I did the same google searches you probably have already done and found absolutely no information on either the safety or long term effects.

Have you tried any non-medicinal treatments for anxiety and insomnia? I have had very good luck with practicing mindfulness/conscious breathing/meditation, in conjunction with exercise during the day.<3
 

Yepimonfire

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
6
Safety i can speak for, at least for valerian. I used to take 1300-2600mg for sleep for months with no ill effects or wd, i also consumed half an entire bottle throughout the day when I had some short lived alcohol rebound (mostly shakes, sweats, cramps, extreme anxiety, resolved in about a day) with the only side effect being bad smelling poop lol. I'm probably worrying needlessly.
 
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VitamaN

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
770
Location
D town
The only down side I ever noticed while using these herbal sups was the ineffectiveness of them. Never heard of either/or being addictive in any way.
 

Yepimonfire

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
6
The only down side I ever noticed while using these herbal sups was the ineffectiveness of them.
Because people take stupidly small doses lol. Same thing with Kava, capsules contain 250mg of kavalactones, whereas a typical effective serving of kava (4-8tbsp infusion) is like 5-15 grams of kavalactones.
 
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