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Bupe ceiling dose Q

phatass

phatass

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
9,897
so i often get my sub and do quite a lot the night that i get it, then chill out... but heres my question, i've read that bupe has a ceiling dose of 32mg approx... does this just apply for sublingual, or would it also workwith IV or sniffing it, or does the ceiling dose go proportionally with the bio-avalability?
 
I'm pretty sure the ceiling is relative to bioavailability. Its the amount that makes it to the receptors from 32mg sublingually.

I haven't read all the information on buprenorphine, but I think the 32mg sublingual dose is where they determined the dose-response curve became too steep. Anecdotally, around here it seems for many people the ceiling dose (as in, the dose where there is no more therapeutic value beyond that point) is much lower. I've also read about rare cases where people did benefit from doses over 32mg.

Overall, I believe the medical establishment determined that next to no one will benefit above 32mg and on BL I've seen most people feel they stop receiving therapeutic benefit at much lower levels.

Back to the original question, I'm pretty sure that the ceiling is relative to the BA of the ROA so if someone's ceiling is 32mg SL, it'll be about 21mg in ethanol solutions or about 16mg IV.
 
I dont understand exactly what your question is but i think your asking if the ceiling dose of bupe is 32 mg's for all routes of administration. Im pretty sure that whatever the ceiling dose is,(probably 32 mg's), that that means 32 mg's absorbed into your blood/body is the maximum limit. Anything after that would have no effect. Therefore if you sublingually take 32 mg's of bupe, your probably only absorbing about 16 mg's give or take because of the lower bioavailability for sublingual.......meaning you could probably take 64 mg's sublingually before reach the ceiling dose. But if you IV 32 mg's your probably allready at the ceiling dose given the 100% bioavailability of intravenous use.

But all that doesnt matter anyway because NO ONE should take more than 2-4 mg's of bupe at once anyway. Preferrably .5 mg's or less. This is the best way to feel the analgeisic effects of bupe and the ONLY way to get a buzz or a high off of it. Plus it makes it much easier to get off the drug once you decide to.

Even if you dont care about feelin good or gettin a high off of bupe(which definitely is possible no matter what people say, I do it everyday) the maximum dose you should be taking is probably more like 8 mg's. Nobody needs anywhere near 32 mg's of bupe. It's simply not necessary. Any more wont do you any good. And like I said, less will give you euphoric effects.

You seem to have the attitude that the more you take the better you will feel..."I often get my sub and do quite alot the night i get it...". You need to understand that less is more with suboxone and your only greatly increasing your opiate tolerance and wasting a very expensive medication by taking as much as you do.
 
^the ceiling stated by Reckitt-Benckiser is 32mg SL, not 32mg assuming 100% BA as in IV dosing. It could be extremely unpleasant if not dangerous for someone to take 64mg SL so please be careful saying you think that is the ceiling.
 
Im prescribed 12 mg's a day yet have only ever taken 4 mg's at one time, and that was only to see what would happen(nothing happened except I didnt get a buzz)....I normally take about .5 mg's to 2 mg's a day. Lately ive been only taking .5 mg's and have noticed EVEN MORE euphoric effects......the lower dosage I take, the more high I seem to get off of it. Im looking forward to lowering my dose to .25 mg's very soon, and I reccommend you do the same.
 
Cane2theLeft said:
^the ceiling stated by Reckitt-Benckiser is 32mg SL, not 32mg assuming 100% BA as in IV dosing. It could be extremely unpleasant if not dangerous for someone to take 64mg SL so please be careful saying you think that is the ceiling.
Click to expand...

I wasnt saying that 32 mg's was the celing I was just using 32 mg's as a number to use as an example so I could show the math explaing my point.
I guess I didnt say it the right way though.

I meant......"IF" the ceiling dose is "FOR EXAMPLE" 32 mg's, THEN.......blah blah blah. Understand???

Sry if it came across the wrong way. Thanks Cane for spotting that and clarifying it so that nobody goes and stuffs 8 suboxone pills in their mouth.
 
^my bad, I misunderstood what you were saying. I get you now.

Also, to clarify, its not like the codeine ceiling where there is no affect after 32mg. There is no *therapeutic benefit* past that point and that's why it varies. The firm number is 32mg but most people fall somewhere between 16-32mg and many receive no therapeutic benefit at doses considerably lower than that even.
 
Im not sure what you mean by ..."..most people fall somewhere between 16-32mg and many recieve no therapeutic benefit at doses considerably lower then that even."

I thought the lower you go the better it works...at least thats how its been for me....
and Captain.Heroin for example.
 
^thats what people on BL have certainly found. I'm referring to the pharmacological information put out on buprenorphine.

Certain effects will increase with dose until you reach the ceiling but people on BL such as C.H have demonstrated that for many people there is a 'less is more' subjective effect with BMT patients.

When they are testing drugs they use biological measurements to gauge the effects and this is generally indicative of therapeutic effects for most drugs but many BMT patients find that positive subjective effects can actually increase at lower doses which is theoretically due to more antagonist effects at higher doses since its a mixed agonist-antagonist.

Bupe is certainly unique.
 
"Bupe is certainly unique"

Hell yea it is. I cant tell you how many headaches ive gotten just from trying to explain to one of my friends how it works and how it is possible for a drug to make you feel better when you take less of it instead of more. Its like talking to a monkey with a very strong opinion that "more is better".
 
^agreed. I think they fucked up making the only available maintenance doses 2mg and 8mg. Most people do receive benefits from under 2mg yet if you look at other pills, who receives benefit from less than the smallest dose of valium, or vicodin, or oxy, or nearly anything? Next to no one.
 
Exactly, which is why I bet for the rest of buprenorphins existence it will be talked about with great ignorance by people who know only what they are told to know. This will spread false rumors, lies, etc....leading to a worldwide misconception of the drug causing even more ignorance. This is a cycle many of our worlds drugs have been forced to go through due to "the war on drugs" and powerful scared radical religious freaks.
 
People have a habit of believing everything they are told, which is why for the longest time it was thought that if you smoked weed you would put your baby in an oven or if you took lsd you would become catatonic for the rest of your life or if you took heroin more than 4 times you would automatically become an addict. This is why people(even people on bluelight) believe that the naloxone prevents you from IV'ing suboxone or that you MUST do what your doctor says at all times because hes a doctor and doctors always know more/better than us. Ignorance is a disease well spread throughout our society.
 
IME when i take 24mg's bupe, then i rail another 8mg, it gets me nodding harder.... then again i mix with benzos and muscle relaxers...
 
Hey guys, interesting post so far. Anyways, I'm on 16mg a day and have been on it for around 3-4 months. The first month or month and a half there was def therapeutic and euphoric effects but now it seems like I've lost both. In this past week, I've tried taking 24mg to achieve a greater effect. The first time, maybe I felt a little better but not that much, the second time (around 3 days later) I didn't get any better effects.

It seems like you guys have been thru this and have toyed around with dosages more than I have. This whole less is more theory interests me. What do you guys think I should do to get greater effects?

And BTW, I agree that yes buperenorphine is a wonderful drug. It saved my life from heroin and I am so grateful to be on it. Getting off it seems hard but I'm not there yet and will deal with it when the time comes.
 
served00 said:
Hey guys, interesting post so far. Anyways, I'm on 16mg a day and have been on it for around 3-4 months. The first month or month and a half there was def therapeutic and euphoric effects but now it seems like I've lost both. In this past week, I've tried taking 24mg to achieve a greater effect. The first time, maybe I felt a little better but not that much, the second time (around 3 days later) I didn't get any better effects.

It seems like you guys have been thru this and have toyed around with dosages more than I have. This whole less is more theory interests me. What do you guys think I should do to get greater effects?

And BTW, I agree that yes buperenorphine is a wonderful drug. It saved my life from heroin and I am so grateful to be on it. Getting off it seems hard but I'm not there yet and will deal with it when the time comes.
Click to expand...

You should try taking only 2 mg's or less if you want to get the euphoric buzz that suboxone can have. I know this from experience. Every time I lower my dosage the more high I get of of it. Im down to about .3-.4 mg doses and it just keeps getting better. And at this rate, my scrits for suboxone (45 8mg pills a month) will last me FOREVER. I only go through a whole 8 mg pill about once every 1-2 weeks.....and I have 30 more saved up, plus they keep giving me 45 more each month, pretty soon I will have enough to last me for years if need be.
 
man bupe is a weird/interesting drug its effects seem to vary a lot some people don't get shit from it some people do and no one can really agree on what dose is best and its effects on the brain/receptors
 
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