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Catatonic schizophrenia and LSD

john485

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
1
SWIM ,18 y/o, has used LSD 2 times in total so far, each with around ~220-300mcg of some of what he has reason to believe, is among the purest "high-end" LSD avaliable on the market. SWIM's first experiment with the substance was around the end of May, and the second one, about 30 days later.

SWIM's first experience, was happy,insightful, and quite enjoyiable , and the second one, while not being as pleasureable as the first one, was still not to be definied as "a bad trip" ,in his opinion , having been just somewhat more overwhelming , and with a distinct jaw pain that lasted about 36 hours, which he thought was from the dopamine agonism caused by LSD.

SWIM hasn't touched LSD since then, since he recently discovered that his uncle, was diagnosed with Catatonic schizophrenia, something that if he had known, would have made him stay away all sorts of psychedelics and other drugs.

As soon as SWIM discovered the fact, he became obviously quite scared, given what he had previously read about psychedelics triggering schizophrenia. So anyway, after some research,and as far as SWIM understood, it seems that those at greater risk, are people with direct blood relatives (which as far as SWIM undestood are just parents,siblings ang grandparents), having had schizophrenia, and being swim's uncle not in that circle, he believes to be at lesser risk.

And also, according to some governement drugs-prevention websites, the type of the relative's schizophrenia that would put swim at risk, would be "Paranoid schizophrenia", with Catatonic schizophrenia nowhere to be mentioned.

So anyway, given SWIM's panic, he immediately googled up the early signs of developing schizophrenia, that may usually be experienced ,and found this: http://www.schizophrenia.com/earlysigns.htm, of which, he seems to be having the following:

--A blank, vacant facial expression. An inability to smile or express emotion through the face is so characteristic of the disease that it was given the name of affective flattening or a blunt affect.
--Staring, while in deep thought, with infrequent blinking.
--The inability to experience joy or pleasure from activities
--Sometimes feeling nothing at all
--Feeling indifferent to important events
--Depression- feeling discouraged and hopeless about the future
--Low motivation, energy, and little or no enthusiasm
--Rapidly changing mood- from happy to sad to angry for no apparent reason
--Inability to form or keep relationships
--Social isolation- few close friends if any. Little interaction outside of immediate family.
--Increased withdrawal, spending most of the days alone.
--Becoming lost in thoughts and not wanting to be disturbed with human contact
--Functional impairment in interpersonal relationships
--Inappropriate responses- laughing or smiling when talking of a sad event, making irrational statements.
--Ruminating thoughts- these are the same thoughts that go around and round your head but get you nowhere. Often about past disappointments, missed opportunities, failed relationships.
--Making up new words (neologisms)
--In conversation you tend to say very little
--Trouble with social cues- i.e. not being able to interpret body language, eye contact, voice tone, and gestures appropriately. --Often not responding appropriately and thus coming off as cold, distant, or detached.
--Poor concentration/ memory. Forgetfulness (note- While I have concentration problems, my memory is well above averge)
--Overpowering, intense feeling you are being watched, followed, and spied on (tracking devices, implants, hidden cameras) [NOTE- Well, SWIM wouldn't say that he believes to have either tracking devices nor implants, but he is however always trying to anonymize myself on the internet, blocking ADS,trackers,social widgets and the such, since he doesen't like the idea of social networks/ad trackers having any sort of "archive" profiling him, his likes and targetting him with ads according to their "profiling".]
Now, the thing that gives SWIM a sparkle of hope , is that he's been having such "symptoms" years before even trying LSD or any other drug, and he believes that they might be as well be caused by MDD, which I seem to have all signs of, according the "DSM-IV definition" of such disorder. And also, being SWIM an INTx according the MBTI, such symptoms may as well be caused by his personality ,rather than any specific disease.


So anyway, I thank those of you who have taken time to read so far, and now comes the question swim would have to have answered.

Do you guys think that SWIM is indeed doomed, and should enjoy his last weeks as a "normal" person, and wait for voices telling him to do stuff to appear, non-existing entities to appear out of thin air, or thoughts about NWO dominating the world? [delirium]

And if not, do you think that there is a reasonable risk for SWIM to abstain from further LSD use?

In SWIM's opinion , LSD was indeed a remarkably interesting and fascinating experience, which he would definitely like to be able to try again, but if that would risk in him resulting to develop Schizophrenia (hoping that it's not already too late) , he would toss everything in the garbage, and never touch any substances again.

PS: As a foot note, SWIM has never done any other drugs, not even prescription ones, having always tried to avoid them to the maximum extent.


Thanks in advance to anyone who will take time to answer SWIM's concerns.
 

BeffJuckley

Greenlighter
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
27
This is a topic that has always interested me, but most cases of drug induced schizophrenia or psychosis (that I have read about personally) occur with uppers and cannabis.

Even cases in which the subject has taken LSD and believes this to be the cause are normally in conjunction with marijuana use.

And in my own experienced I have noticed cannabis to have profound effects on mood and behavior in large amounts over even short periods of time.

This is does not mean I think you should take LSD, because I don't. If you must, do them very rarely. Bi-yearly, if not less, and in small doses (half a tab?) Perhaps research your uncles parent whom you have no blood relation to ease your worries.
 

NeighborhoodThreat

Bluelight Crew
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
22,303
Location
Richmond, VA
We don't use SWIM here, we all know its you. SWIM does nothing to protect you, is against the rules and makes your posts hard to read. Please edit your post and replace SWIM with proper pronouns.
 

gforgregarious

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
25
Clearly, the only way to stay risk-free is not to do LSD again. And in SWIM's position, I would abstain, while still cherishing those two experiences I did have.

It should be said there is cause for optimism regarding SWIM being doomed: all of those symptoms to me seem like things that can happen to many people and have nothing to do with developing schizophrenia. The last one in particular, a concern for privacy on the internet, seems relatively common. Governments are trying to control the internet more and more, and in the US millions (billions?) of emails are intercepted every day. Surfing sites like Bluelight asking about the effects of LSD on SWIM make trying to keep one's internet use private all the more reasonable.
 

steve022

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
290
Location
On the moon fighting purple dragons
Thoughts about NWO makes you schizo? Well, that can't be, because the NWO is REAL! Trust me, there IS A NEW WORLD ORDER of some kind coming. Anyone who disagrees with me is clearly not opening their eyes to what's around us all the time. The politicians are seeking to create further domination of the people and the people are blindly going along. Also, the government built tunnels underground to hide out from any kind of "global disaster". As time goes on, the global elite will seek further and further dominance and either people will just keep going along or they will resist in various ways (e.g. by protesting, civil disobedience, etc.) and the system will be changed to allow individual expression and freedom. Either way, we are in a time of change, or possibly even an apocolypse if things go awry and this is one of the most critical times in human history. In fact, all of us on this site will probably live to see a New World Order of some kind. Do yourselves a fucking favor and research this stuff :! It's a damn shame that people think that the NWO is an example of a delusion caused by insanity

However, I don't mean to rant, just your speaking of NWO as a psychosis symptom irritates me a bit. However, SWIM should stay away from acid. If he kept using it, I cannot say for sure whether or not he would develop psychosis but there is a chance. I mean there's a chance it could happen to anyone taking acid/other psychs, but with a family history of catatonic schizophrenia the risks are much higher. The reason that catatonic schizophrenia in the family is not listed as predisposing one to psychosis caused by acid is because catatonic schizophrenia is much, much rarer than the more common paranoid type. In addition to being more severe, catatonic schizophrenia is FAR more severe than the paranoid type. Paranoid schizophrenics see/hear things at times, sometimes travel long distances to evade the CIA (or other delusions), and may act strangely at times, but at the same can sometimes be capable of functioning at least to the extent where they can live independently. However, catatonic schizophrenia will keep you in an insane asylum FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE guaranteed.
 
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bees_knees

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
167
I have two brothers with schizophrenia and have been diagnosed myself. All from uppers and cannabis, your real enemy, as has been said by JeffBuckley. I have used mushrooms during my undiagnosed but clearly ill period with only extremely positive effects and during remission with positive effects although largely blunted by medication.

What are you into these psychedelics for? If it's for a genuine reason like spiritual discovery or understanding our world/life better, maybe it's justified to play around a little bit and take the small risk you MIGHT have. I have a huge risk apparently but IME mushrooms do not exacerbate schizophrenia, but I have genuine reasons for exploring especially because of something huge like they physically heal the brain and thus combat the schizophrenia anyway, this is the feeling I get from using them. I also wish to understand myself and our world better, as an explorer, not as a hedonist.
 

bees_knees

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
167
Steve be careful of being brainwashed by the internet, there is no control of information.
 

Doldrugs

Bluelighter
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
1,762
A lot of necros today. This one by Alex Jones. Watch out for the reptilians, guys.
 

steve022

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
290
Location
On the moon fighting purple dragons
I have two brothers with schizophrenia and have been diagnosed myself. All from uppers and cannabis, your real enemy, as has been said by JeffBuckley. I have used mushrooms during my undiagnosed but clearly ill period with only extremely positive effects and during remission with positive effects although largely blunted by medication.

What are you into these psychedelics for? If it's for a genuine reason like spiritual discovery or understanding our world/life better, maybe it's justified to play around a little bit and take the small risk you MIGHT have. I have a huge risk apparently but IME mushrooms do not exacerbate schizophrenia, but I have genuine reasons for exploring especially because of something huge like they physically heal the brain and thus combat the schizophrenia anyway, this is the feeling I get from using them. I also wish to understand myself and our world better, as an explorer, not as a hedonist.

Cannabis is more likely than mushrooms to induce schizophrenia? That doesn't make sense. Mushrooms are way more powerful of a drug than weed is. I've never had weed that was as strong as any of the times I have done mushrooms/psychs. I'm not doubting that it's capable of causing some mild psychadelia, but nothing like mushrooms and certainly not anywhere near what LSD does.
 

steve022

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
290
Location
On the moon fighting purple dragons
I have two brothers with schizophrenia and have been diagnosed myself. All from uppers and cannabis, your real enemy, as has been said by JeffBuckley. I have used mushrooms during my undiagnosed but clearly ill period with only extremely positive effects and during remission with positive effects although largely blunted by medication.

What are you into these psychedelics for? If it's for a genuine reason like spiritual discovery or understanding our world/life better, maybe it's justified to play around a little bit and take the small risk you MIGHT have. I have a huge risk apparently but IME mushrooms do not exacerbate schizophrenia, but I have genuine reasons for exploring especially because of something huge like they physically heal the brain and thus combat the schizophrenia anyway, this is the feeling I get from using them. I also wish to understand myself and our world better, as an explorer, not as a hedonist.

Cannabis is more likely than mushrooms to induce schizophrenia? That doesn't make sense. Mushrooms are way more powerful of a drug than weed is. I've never had weed that was as strong as any of the times I have done mushrooms/psychs. I'm not doubting that it causes some mild psychadelia, but nothing like mushrooms and certainly not anywhere near what LSD does.
 

perpetualdawn

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Nov 20, 2013
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uʍɐdlɐnʇǝdɹǝp
Mushrooms are way more powerful of a drug than weed is. I've never had weed that was as strong as any of the times I have done mushrooms/psychs.

Says who? I find strong weed to be *far* more ass-kicking than mushrooms. It's also more habit forming and possible to use chronically. And I think we can all agree than weed stimulates paranoia. They are completely different things, so it's very hard to compare. Anecdotally, I've noticed more psychological disturbances in people around me due to cannabis than due to mushrooms or lsd. I think there's something to this, but not sure if we have much science to say one way or the other.

I don't have anything against weed, I just think it has this dark side that people don't want to talk about because we're surrounded in a culture that puts weed on a bit of a pedestal.
 

phuckingnutz

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
1,421
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Inside your head....
Anecdotally, I've noticed more psychological disturbances in people around me due to cannabis than due to mushrooms or lsd. I think there's something to this, but not sure if we have much science to say one way or the other.

I don't have anything against weed, I just think it has this dark side that people don't want to talk about because we're surrounded in a culture that puts weed on a bit of a pedestal.

I agree 100%, IME, weed fucks with my head waaaaay more than psychs do... for some reason though, if I smoke weed all the time every day, it fucks with me a lot less than if I smoke sporadically...and since I cant get/afford weed all the time, I don't smoke.
 

Ismene

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
13,172
Cannabis is more likely than mushrooms to induce schizophrenia? That doesn't make sense. Mushrooms are way more powerful of a drug than weed is.

But you can't take mushrooms every night for years on end.

No drug induces schizophrenia - the schizophrenia rates have remained constant or fallen slightly for over 100 years. If cannabis/LSD/mushrooms induced it there would have been a gigantic explosion in the schizophrenia figures over the last 50 years as drugs became more widely used.
 

steve022

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Messages
290
Location
On the moon fighting purple dragons
Says who? I find strong weed to be *far* more ass-kicking than mushrooms. It's also more habit forming and possible to use chronically. And I think we can all agree than weed stimulates paranoia. They are completely different things, so it's very hard to compare. Anecdotally, I've noticed more psychological disturbances in people around me due to cannabis than due to mushrooms or lsd. I think there's something to this, but not sure if we have much science to say one way or the other.

I don't have anything against weed, I just think it has this dark side that people don't want to talk about because we're surrounded in a culture that puts weed on a bit of a pedestal.

First off, weed paranoia is usually relatively mild. Sure, it may be worrying or uncomfortable at the time, but it's usually manageable and transitory. Acid paranoia is severe, debilitating, and terrifying. Yes, it does not always happen during a trip, it often doesn't. However, when it does, it will leave you scared out of your mind and even after the trip is over, you will still likely be anxious, worried, and paranoid for a while. However, when one submits to the trip to it's full extent, one can completely transcend themselves which can be a positive and life changing experience. However, it also carries serious risks that marijuana does not. With weed, you never go into full blown insanity, although you can start to go a little crazy in a bad environment if your not experienced with it. Comparing weed and psychedelics is like comparing having a couple of beers to chugging a fifth of Jack Daniels. They both do the same type of thing, but one just takes you a hell of a lot further than the other.

Case and point:

Paranoid Moment While High: I think that cop can tell I'm stoned. Shit, I hope he isn't going to do anything. Nah, he probably can't and even if he can he's got no way to prove it and I've got nothing on me. If he comes up to me, I'll just deny being on drugs and hope that he just leaves me alone. Even if he notices, since he's got nothing to prove it and I've got nothing on me, I'm in the clear.

Bad LSD Trip Paranoia: That cop knows I'm tripping, I'll go to jail for years or they'll put me in an insane asylum! Holy shit, my life is over, I've totally fucked everything up. My whole life has been digging myself in a hole and that cop is going to throw me in prison for what I've done (though one is simply walking down the street doing nothing out of the ordinary). Well, this is really bad because I could end up being stuck like this forever
 
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Hecticus

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
344
Location
Sydney
My mum is a schitzophrenic, mental illness on both sides of family and suicides. And I have alot of those symptoms you've listed either due to my predisposal or my drug abuse, and you think your at risk?
Psychedelics, cannabinoids & psychostimulants in particular can TRIGGER schitzophrenia, not cause it to develop.
Why worry about something that is out of your control?
 

Xorkoth

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Cannabis is more likely than mushrooms to induce schizophrenia? That doesn't make sense. Mushrooms are way more powerful of a drug than weed is. I've never had weed that was as strong as any of the times I have done mushrooms/psychs. I'm not doubting that it's capable of causing some mild psychadelia, but nothing like mushrooms and certainly not anywhere near what LSD does.

It's well-documented that cannabis greatly exacerbates schizophrenia and other psychoses actually. I have heard many people say that cannabis was the very worst thing for them in this way (people who have experienced psychosis of some sort).
 

FunctionalOlfactio

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
239
It's well-documented that cannabis greatly exacerbates schizophrenia and other psychoses actually. I have heard many people say that cannabis was the very worst thing for them in this way (people who have experienced psychosis of some sort).

You are correct. I have noticed the problems occur frequently with domestic indoor skunk bud. I haven't encountered this with outdoor marijuana from the non western world. It is obviously an environmental containment. I don't smoke marijuana because of this. Repeatedly using psychedelics aided my recovery from smoking indoor skunk bud.

bluepsychosis:
1) I have seen this sort of reaction before in a dose dependent manner.
2) I don't smoke cannabis due to an inability to confidently ascertain quality.
I'm glad your feeling some relief. Be patient, most people that go through this experience the first time expect quick results. Treating any psychological issue takes months to years to do effectively. This is normal and others have walked this road.


hunter1:
I can confirm, cannabis grown in the western world is hit or miss. Some cannabis from the western world causes seizures, vomiting, and compulsive dosing in susceptible individuals. I have witnessed more people than I can count on two hands have their lives completely destroyed do to the "nasties". In my experience cannabis from non-English speaking countries outside of the first world never results in these adverse reactions.
I can also confirm high potency cannabis grown ethically is a completely different experience. Quality cannabis is a strong anti-emetic, more mellow, and has a longer plateau. Additionally, when I would smoke quality cannabis I would never get the same desire to re-dose. My experience is derived from comparing U.K. and U.S. indoor hash/bud with Mexican, African, and Afghan hash/bud.
The drug war has been a public health nightmare.

--------------------
http://www.shulginresearch.org
http://www.freeleonardpickard.org
http://www.maps.org
http://www.erowid.org
 

Xorkoth

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I personally use really good quality, strong indoor marijuana frequently, lately a few times a week but for many years it was many times each and every single day. I will say that during those times it negatively impacted my life some, but now it does not. But we're all different. I'm just trying to say that I'm not of the opinion that "marijuana is bad for you, mmkay", I just understand that for people with a disposition towards psychosis, it IS bad. As well as for people with depression, anxiety issues, etc. I have a number of friends and acquaintances who I personally watched descend into some really bad places from marijuana, including my wife/ex-wife and one of my best friends in the world.
 
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