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Can someone please just give me a straight answer and tell me if it is a waste to smoke heroin after taking 50ml methadone??

Ganjcat

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Apr 13, 2013
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Please I need to know if this dose is enough to block the heroin at all I just can't tell also would promethazine stop the blocking effect
 

Bella Figura

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It probably depends on how long since your last methadone dose, your metabolism and how strong your heroin is. Promethazine will just add some sedation and stop you itching.
 

Branggen

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Jul 18, 2013
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You’ll feel it but it’s gonna be pretty disappointing most likely
 

some dude

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Mar 3, 2013
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Did you take 50 ml or 50 mg?
With the standard concentration of 10mg/ml, 50 ml would be 500mg..
 

JessFR

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I'm gonna just go ahead and assume you mean 50mg not 50ml. Since 50ml in most of the world is at LEAST 250mg and potentially as much as 500. The former is pretty crazy and the latter would probably kill most heavy addicts.

Problem here is even with 50mg it's not a straight answer. If you're on methadone, as in take it every day, and have been on 50mg or more for years. No, it probably won't be a total waste. You'd be better off waiting at least 8-12 hours, but you'll probably still feel it.

If you aren't a regular methadone user, or worse if you've only recently started and have been taking 30-50mg for the last few days, you'll almost certainly be wasting it if you haven't given it at least 12-16 hours before using it.

You gotta judge it by how you feel.

Honestly, if you're taking enough methadone to block it, you should be able to feel it. Not the heroin I mean you should be able to feel that having more opioids would be a waste. When you have enough methadone to block other opioids. You can tell more won't help. I dunno how to describe it but I can definitely tell. I can sense that if I had heroin it wouldn't wouldn't feel much if any better somehow.

You know how when you have heroin, once you've had a certain amount you don't feel like you want anymore for the time being. There's a delay before you crave more? (this is my experience anyway). It's like that. You can usually tell.

Without more details though we can't really guess your experience in advance.
 

F.U.B.A.R.

☠Rattus norvegicus☠ Moderator: BDD, OD, EADD, LAVA
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Did you take 50 ml or 50 mg?
With the standard concentration of 10mg/ml, 50 ml would be 500mg..

Ganjcat is in the UK. Methadone in the UK is dosed at 1mg/ml, which is far more sensible imo...

@Ganjcat the blocking effects of methadone are reportedly only significant above 80mg, so you'll probably feel it.

But as you know, you shouldn't really be using on top :D
 
Last edited:

JessFR

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Ganjcat is in the UK. Methadone in the UK is dosed at 1mg/ml, which is far more sensible imo...

@Ganjcat the blocking effects of methadone are reportedly only significant above 80mg, so you'll probably feel it.

But as you know, you shouldn't really be using on top :D

Is it really? Damn I knew 1mg/ml existed somewhere. I didn't realize it was actually the UK. Nice.

Yea I tend to agree, 1mg per ml makes so much more sense in many respects.

It's interesting how variable methadone is, every country seems to have its own formulations. Here in Australia it's all 5mg per ml.

As for the reported cut off. I've found these reported numbers to be highly inaccurate.

In my experience the greatest determining factor is how long you've been on methadone for. Early on it's likely to do a pretty good job blocking it, later on it struggles even at higher doses to block anything.

I think what's actually going on is methadone and heroin are only incomplete cross tolerant. So over time you actually gain tolerance to methadone and lose tolerance to heroin, causing it to block early on but not later. This would be extremely consistent with my experience.

When I started methadone, I was on more than enough for my heroin habit at the time. Years later when I relapsed, I found my heroin tolerance had significantly reduced. If they were perfectly cross tolerant, my tolerance for heroin should be higher than I started not significantly lower. Makes perfect sense though if they're only partially cross tolerant.
 

Fairy of the Flowers

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I didn't know methodone blocked heroin, that's mad, I thought only naltrexone did that, I dabbled with heroin when I first went on methodone it worked from what I remember but it was so long ago, but I don't remember it not working
 

MajjBenzo42

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Dec 4, 2019
Messages
59
Ganjcat is in the UK. Methadone in the UK is dosed at 1mg/ml, which is far more sensible imo...

@Ganjcat the blocking effects of methadone are reportedly only significant above 80mg, so you'll probably feel it.

But as you know, you shouldn't really be using on top :D
I remember being in the hospital with Hep B, and the methadone in there was pink.
As opposed to green, which it is everywhere else in the UK.
I was down to 28ml when they asked me if I was on methadone but I lied and said I was still stabilising at 50ml.
They gave me 50ml and I got such a kick out of it but it turns out they were using a 2mg/1ml solution which is why it was pink.
To this day I have no idea if it was an error, or a policy of that ward, or just a standard solution for in-patients but f**k me it got me as high as it's possible on methadone.
 

JessFR

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I didn't know methodone blocked heroin, that's mad, I thought only naltrexone did that, I dabbled with heroin when I first went on methodone it worked from what I remember but it was so long ago, but I don't remember it not working

Methadone doesn't block heroin in the same way.

It only blocks it if it affects you enough as to make it not enjoyable.

Like, if you have a big shot of heroin, and then another shot, that second shot won't be anything like as enjoyable, because you're already under the effects of the first shot.

That's kinda how methadone blocks heroin. But if you're either tolerant to methadone, or you haven't taken that much, or it's been hours and it's worn off enough, it won't block anything.
 

MajjBenzo42

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Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
59
Methadone doesn't block heroin in the same way.

It only blocks it if it affects you enough as to make it not enjoyable.

Like, if you have a big shot of heroin, and then another shot, that second shot won't be anything like as enjoyable, because you're already under the effects of the first shot.

That's kinda how methadone blocks heroin. But if you're either tolerant to methadone, or you haven't taken that much, or it's been hours and it's worn off enough, it won't block anything.
It's was one of methadone's biggest criticisms in the UK in the late 90s and early 2000s that the vast majority of methadone users were just using methadone as a 'fall back on' for when they couldn't get heroin.
Most of my friends that were on the gear and meth would be at the chemist at 9 am, 50ml of methadone drank, wait until they weren't rattling any more, then go out grafting to make money to score gear.
It's a stronger opiate as well, so you can have your 50ml a day and IV or smoke a tenner bag or two, get high as fuck, and your 50ml the next day will take away the WDs from your daily meth and a tenner bag (or two) no problem.
From personal experience, you can get high on gear while on meth, and if you keep the heroin amount under half a gram (I'd say about .3 to be safe) your methadone keeps that horrible cold turkey at bay.
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R, TDS
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It's was one of methadone's biggest criticisms in the UK in the late 90s and early 2000s that the vast majority of methadone users were just using methadone as a 'fall back on' for when they couldn't get heroin.
Most of my friends that were on the gear and meth would be at the chemist at 9 am, 50ml of methadone drank, wait until they weren't rattling any more, then go out grafting to make money to score gear.
It's a stronger opiate as well, so you can have your 50ml a day and IV or smoke a tenner bag or two, get high as fuck, and your 50ml the next day will take away the WDs from your daily meth and a tenner bag (or two) no problem.
From personal experience, you can get high on gear while on meth, and if you keep the heroin amount under half a gram (I'd say about .3 to be safe) your methadone keeps that horrible cold turkey at bay.

That's actually exactly how I used methadone in the beginning. It wasn't until later that I got serious about getting off heroin and really committed to methadone.

Anyway yes generally it's been my experience as well that methadone has to be having a very strong effect to block heroin. And even then it's only partially blocked.

Essentially, I very much doubt heroin would have done much when I first got on methadone once I got up to about 60mg. But over time my tolerance to methadone grew and it became entirely possible to use heroin and have it work while on methadone.

As for the methadone nay sayers. Fuck them. The statistics are indisputable. Methadone saves lives. It's just some assholes can't stand the idea that addicts might still be getting high. They have it in what they call a brain that the goal is to stop addicts getting high, rather than to improve their health and social functioning.

Fortunately the data is very clear and the medical community has well established that opioid substitution works better than just about anything else at saving lives, reducing crime and improving health.
 

MajjBenzo42

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Dec 4, 2019
Messages
59
Yes generally it's been my experience as well that methadone has to be having a very strong effect to block heroin. And even then it's only partially blocked.

Essentially, I very much doubt heroin would have done much when I first got on methadone once I got up to about 60mg. But over time my tolerance to methadone grew and it became entirely possible to use heroin and have it work while on methadone.

As for the methadone nay sayers. Fuck them. The statistics are indisputable. Methadone saves lives. It's just some assholes can't stand the idea that addicts might still be getting high. They have it in what they call a brain that the goal is to stop addicts getting high, rather than to improve their health and social functioning.

Fortunately the data is very clear and the medical community has well established that opioid substitution works better than just about anything else at saving lives, reducing crime and improving health.
Couldn't agree more. I've had more than one friend who was kicked off their methadone script by an overzealous Dr who wouldn't give an inch regards positive tests.
I've had friends who had a couple of positives and their Dr has said "come on, play the game. Gonna have to give you the boot if you don't follow the script" and those friends have gone on to get clean and never used again.
Some of those friends I mentioned before who have had one positive and been kicked off went on to die of overdoses. Never given one chance by the so-called "firm but fair" rules.
Sure they took the drugs, but those same friends would have had every chance to be alive to this day had they been given just a tad of humanity.
So I couldn't agree with you more.
Personally, I got down to 20ml and couldn't shake it from there.
When I came off the methadone/heroin it was with help from a compassionate Dr who gave me dihydrocodeine 240mg a day for a week then dropped me by 30mg a week for the first month, then 15mg a week until I was on 8 D-codeine and paracetamol 10/500 a day then dropped those by one a day until they were gone.
That's what worked for me but everyone is different, so quite rightly "fuck the naysayers" how dare anyone have the cheek to tell someone they don't deserve/will stick to a program just because they are morally against it.
Methadone saves lives when used properly.
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R, TDS
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Couldn't agree more. I've had more than one friend who was kicked off their methadone script by an overzealous Dr who wouldn't give an inch regards positive tests.
I've had friends who had a couple of positives and their Dr has said "come on, play the game. Gonna have to give you the boot if you don't follow the script" and those friends have gone on to get clean and never used again.
Some of those friends I mentioned before who have had one positive and been kicked off went on to die of overdoses. Never given one chance by the so-called "firm but fair" rules.
Sure they took the drugs, but those same friends would have had every chance to be alive to this day had they been given just a tad of humanity.
So I couldn't agree with you more.
Personally, I got down to 20ml and couldn't shake it from there.
When I came off the methadone/heroin it was with help from a compassionate Dr who gave me dihydrocodeine 240mg a day for a week then dropped me by 30mg a week for the first month, then 15mg a week until I was on 8 D-codeine and paracetamol 10/500 a day then dropped those by one a day until they were gone.
That's what worked for me but everyone is different, so quite rightly "fuck the naysayers" how dare anyone have the cheek to tell someone they don't deserve/will stick to a program just because they are morally against it.
Methadone saves lives when used properly.

Fortunately where I live generally it doesn't matter how many positive drug tests you get.

I'm actually not drug tested at all, haven't been in nearly 4 years. I used to go to a public clinic though and they randomly tested us every month. I went there for the better part of a year though and not once did I come back clean. They never kicked me off.

Australia's a good place to be addicted to heroin all in all.
 

MajjBenzo42

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Dec 4, 2019
Messages
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Fortunately where I live generally it doesn't matter how many positive drug tests you get.

I'm actually not drug tested at all, haven't been in nearly 4 years. I used to go to a public clinic though and they randomly tested us every month. I went there for the better part of a year though and not once did I come back clean. They never kicked me off.

Australia's a good place to be addicted to heroin all in all.
I'm not sure how it works here in the UK now. Back then (late 90s early 00s) there were only registered methadone Dr's who could prescribe these huge blue prescriptions (which in itself was for no other reason than to embarrass you when you walked into the chemist).
Nowadays all GPs can prescribe methadone and from what I've heard, your GP will ask you what treatment options you think are the best for you.
A lot of people choose DHC over methadone for detox but I've never heard of anyone being treated with Buprenorphine (or Tems/Reckits as we call them over here, as they used to be made by Reckitt and Coleman under the non-generic name of Temgesic) which it seems is a first or second choice in the USA.
But as far as I know, it's night and day regards treatment and how much dignity you are treated with compared to the 90s when they treated everyone like they had the plague if you had to go to a methadone clinic.
 

JessFR

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I'm not sure how it works here in the UK now. Back then (late 90s early 00s) there were only registered methadone Dr's who could prescribe these huge blue prescriptions (which in itself was for no other reason than to embarrass you when you walked into the chemist).

Interesting. Here I don't get given a prescription at all. I mean it gets written. I've seen it written. And it is a unique prescription form specially for the opioid treatment program (actually it's both a prescription and a dosing calendar). But I don't get given it, it's faxed and then mailed to the pharmacy.
 

Blueberry_87

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Apr 13, 2020
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I remember being in the hospital with Hep B, and the methadone in there was pink.
As opposed to green, which it is everywhere else in the UK.
I was down to 28ml when they asked me if I was on methadone but I lied and said I was still stabilising at 50ml.
They gave me 50ml and I got such a kick out of it but it turns out they were using a 2mg/1ml solution which is why it was pink.
To this day I have no idea if it was an error, or a policy of that ward, or just a standard solution for in-patients but f**k me it got me as high as it's possible on methadone.
Was the pink solution pre-bottled? Every clinic I've been to (I'm in the US) has the pump that dispenses methadone and they mix the green stuff in with it. One clinic in the south didn't have pumps, they had shelves upon shelves of bottles, with pink liquid inside, all labeled with different mg amounts. Whatever your dose was they would find a bottle with that amount and give it to you to take. I swear that methadone was stronger too.
 

MajjBenzo42

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
59
Interesting. Here I don't get given a prescription at all. I mean it gets written. I've seen it written. And it is a unique prescription form specially for the opioid treatment program (actually it's both a prescription and a dosing calendar). But I don't get given it, it's faxed and then mailed to the pharmacy.
The old blue prescriptions were over 20 years ago. Nowadays, there aren't many prescriptions given out for anything.
You have a 'registered' pharmacy and your Dr writes out what you are to be given and the instructions etc, then clicks 'send' and it's on your pharmacy's computer system.
It means the chemist has your script instantly and by the time you leave your GPs and get to the chemist, your script is waiting for you.
Great system for one-off scripts but the pharmacies have started demanding 48 hours for repeat prescriptions to be prepared.
It really is a pain for repeats as well because if you're on pain meds like me they 'post-date' the prescription for the day you're due them, then the chemists (usually the shop staff and not the actual chemist) will give you a hard time about coming back in two days.
Like, "I have a 10" mass on my spleen pressing against my already cirrhotic liver and I'm in agony, but don't worry, I'll give you two days to do your fucking job."
Yeah, right....get my DHC out the back, I'm going nowhere until I've got my pain meds, dude!
 

MajjBenzo42

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Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
59
Was the pink solution pre-bottled? Every clinic I've been to (I'm in the US) has the pump that dispenses methadone and they mix the green stuff in with it. One clinic in the south didn't have pumps, they had shelves upon shelves of bottles, with pink liquid inside, all labeled with different mg amounts. Whatever your dose was they would find a bottle with that amount and give it to you to take. I swear that methadone was stronger too.
No idea. They just brought it to me in a little 60ml lid with 50ml of the pink stuff inside it.
It may have been used because all of us in there were on methadone for detox and we all needed pain meds.
Because it sure worked to take the WDs away, the pain away, and that was good pain/WD management for already opioid-tolerant people.
 

Ganjcat

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Apr 13, 2013
Messages
4,010
Idk my bottle just says 50 ml I'll ask next time to clarify thanks guys
 
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