Misc Can I justify using pharmaceuticals by saying they didnt have to be tested on animls?

[deruyityn]

My generalizaed anxiety is getting out of hand these days. I can't really do anything new without my brain immediately locking me down with all the possible disaster scenarios.

You see even taking any pharmaceutical drugs I forbid myself from doing because it is tested on animals. And tehre are some things which seem promising which would likely help me, most notably tianeptine. which is supposedly fantastic for anxiety issues and really suits me with that short half life.

So do you think its justifiable to say that something like tianeptine could have been made without testing on aimals. For instance the good dr shulgin didn;t believe in animal testing and so I guess just went straigh into testing them on himself. Isn't that testamaent that it wcould possibly be done without?

ie it wasnt in my necessary that they were tested on animals so maybe I can tell myself if it wasnt necessary it could have been done without doing so and therefore it might be ok for me to take something which would help me? I feel so guilty about that shit. I dont believe in any afterlife except for being wormfood but i get fears imainging there being some final judgement where you have to pay for your crimes and if you took drugs tested on animals you would be punished for it. Not to mention the day to day heavy burden of guilt I feel from it.

I seem to need to do such ethical gymnastics for this draconian superego to perhaps allow me a little leeway.

As much as I hated alcohol I remember it used to be great to get you in a headspace of not giving a shit about things such that Id be willing to try something new.

Out of desperation I took a little bit of promethazine in the hopes, being a sedative, it might give me a little breathing space and maybe allow me a new perspective for that short time; even that was filled with anxiety though thinking of feeling like shit for the long 20 half life since I cant really remember what it was like it had jsut been sitting in my medicine bag. but of course that is a pharmaceutical so I have already sinned now.

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

Tianeptine is an NMDA antagonist if I remember correctly. Now I imagine it's been tested on animal's. Now if this is going g to really hold you back when it comes to getting decent treatment for your anxiety then I suggest you try 'rc' NMDA antagonists as these most likely won't have been animal tested.

I have found NMDA antagonists to be the best thing for my anxiety, even better than alcohol and benzo's. Methoxetamine was the substance that had greatest effect on my anxiety. I hoping that Ephenidine, as an NMDA antagonist that I can easily get unlike MXE as it was banned and seams as though most places have stopped making it, will help my occasional anxiety and depression.

I know this isn't 'harm reduction' info' but I think 'rc's' are the only non-animal tested drugs you're gonna be able to get.

 

[deruyityn]

Ye I also figured that only ethnobotanicals or rcs arent tested on animals.

Nmda ones while they sound great for depression, ketamine was really scary to me that losing your ego shit and these rc ones sound many times more powerful than that.

If I wasnt so scared I could have gotten myself a batch of mushrooms to see me through for a while but of course I had too much anxiety of getting caught and most likely season has passed now.

Kratom has been great although it's stopped working. Really frustrating.

 

[pinpoint]

Are you seriously refusing to take medications that could dramatically improve your quality of life because they have been tested on animals, really? You realize that you boycotting traditional prescription medication isn't going to change a damn thing? Would you prefer that scientists test them on humans instead? There are many things you take, eat, use, etc throughout the course of the day that had been tested on animals at one point or another. Did you know that Post-It notes are made from chemicals that have been tested on animals.. how about Windex, or condoms, or band-aids, or Kleenex tissues, or Vaseline? Are you going to boycott them too, or are you just following the leftist narrative that pharmaceutical companies are evil capitalists who torture kittens all day?

Get a grip, man.

 

[deruyityn]

Are you seriously refusing to take medications that could dramatically improve your quality of life because they have been tested on animals, really? You realize that you boycotting traditional prescription medication isn't going to change a damn thing? Would you prefer that scientists test them on humans instead? There are many things you take, eat, use, etc throughout the course of the day that had been tested on animals at one point or another. Did you know that Post-It notes are made from chemicals that have been tested on animals.. how about Windex, or condoms, or band-aids, or Kleenex tissues, or Vaseline? Are you going to boycott them too, or are you just following the leftist narrative that pharmaceutical companies are evil capitalists who torture kittens all day?

Get a grip, man.

I have thought of that line 'everything is tested on animals so why fight it?' I have tried that one on for size and it does seem a pretty good argument but I dunno because those things you mentioned existed before they were tested on animals I think that's my problem.

Things like anti depressants only exist because they were tested on animals.


---

I do have the option of some heavy hitters in the drugs department that are natural. Opiates are natural, and ghb. Not that I'd particularly want to try either if I could help it. Ghb was man made but it still existed in nature it was only unveiled. So that is legit imo.

 

[Hodor]

Tianeptine is an NMDA antagonist if I remember correctly. Now I imagine it's been tested on animal's. Now if this is going g to really hold you back when it comes to getting decent treatment for your anxiety then I suggest you try 'rc' NMDA antagonists as these most likely won't have been animal tested.

I have found NMDA antagonists to be the best thing for my anxiety, even better than alcohol and benzo's. Methoxetamine was the substance that had greatest effect on my anxiety. I hoping that Ephenidine, as an NMDA antagonist that I can easily get unlike MXE as it was banned and seams as though most places have stopped making it, will help my occasional anxiety and depression.

I know this isn't 'harm reduction' info' but I think 'rc's' are the only non-animal tested drugs you're gonna be able to get.

Tianeptine is an atypical antidepressant where nobody knows *exactly* what it does... it was relatively recently shown to be, among other things, a mild opioid, but that doesn't seem to be anywhere near all there is to it.

Anyway, as for RCs... isn't it kind of disingenuous to say these haven't been animal-tested when they owe their existence to parent drugs that were indeed tested on animals? For example, we wouldn't have any benzos at all if back in the day Leo Sternbach hadn't fed Chlordiazepoxide - a product of his research into chemical dyes(!) - to his lab rats and discovered much to his joy and surprise that it produced sedative effects.

 

[manboychef]

how do you get the condoms on the pigs and then force them to try them out...Do they prefer certain brands? Do they work for pigs, like if a pig just wants to get a little lucky a couple times but doesn't want a pack of piglets running around he could just grab a pack of condoms right?

Deryiutin. Just take the damn medicine. This sounds more like OCD. I am similar, I have a rigid set of rules I adhere to and if something challenges those rules I have an intense anxiety response unless I correct the problem. You need to work on being uncomfortable and challenging those ideas if you ever want to get any better. You are going to need to learn to separate the intrusive/problematic thoughts from your everyday thoughts. I know it is a tall order, but you are going to need a combination of medicine and therapy to learn to do this...and one way to slow your brain down enough to start that work is to take a prescription. Do not let this progress as it only gets worse as you go older...its like you get set in your ways.

 

[SKR]

^Legit post Manboychef. %)

 

[pinpoint]

how do you get the condoms on the pigs and then force them to try them out...Do they prefer certain brands? Do they work for pigs, like if a pig just wants to get a little lucky a couple times but doesn't want a pack of piglets running around he could just grab a pack of condoms right?

Hah actually no, what they do is insert things latex and silicone into the animals vagina, sometimes leaving it in there for days just to determine if there's any adverse effects. Believe it or not PETA actually has a list of what they deem to be approved condoms. There's even vegan condoms while we're on the subject. What a time to be alive.

 

[dus_aster]

From an animal harm reduction perspective and as someone who spent a long-ass time as a strict vegan, I think anyone should be able to respect the sentiment, OP, but if your quality of life is at stake, I would honestly just bite the bullet and look into whichever substances you and/or your doctor think could be therepeutic. You're looking at an industry that is, to my knowlege, at least, thoroughly saturated with animal testing, to one degree or another; it can't really be avoided.


If you *really* need some way to justify this, perhaps look into ways you can give back to animals; volunteer or donate to your nearest ethical human organization, for example, or donate to/lobby for the end or stricter regulation of animal testing. I'm not much of a believer in karma, but shit, doing something good for animals goes a long way towards alleviating any guilt.
All about the harm reduction, yeah? It appplies to things other than drugs, as well.

 

[deruyityn]

You realize that you boycotting traditional prescription medication isn't going to change a damn thing?

I was thinking you could justify anything like this though couldn't you?

Ie the fur trade,

the slave trade

etc.

 

[burn out]

have you tried kava? its natural and it is a better treatment for anxiety than any pharmy in my experience.

 

[bingey]

today's addict makes me sick