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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Buying a House - Tips?

hoptis said:
Real estate agents have so many tricks, it's mind-boggling... and as a first homebuyer I don't think you can leave your best interests in their hands. They're acting for the seller; don't ever forget that.

So not true.
Yes some real estate agents are like that but you have to remember that they want to act in the best interest for YOU as well, so you will give them the house back to sell in the future. not ALL of them are seedy rip off merchants!!! (i think im a tad partial because of the father factor!) :)
But in all my experience and dealings with MANY different agents i have recognised that some are definately dodgy and working only for the vendor, but those ones gets a bad rep pretty quickly and fall out of the industry. a lot of real estate agents will be straight up and tell you the truth such as "this house needs work etc etc".
 
SLM said:

* buying vs. renting - your thoughts? advantageous or no?
* what are the pitfalls to be aware of: extra costs etc. Home ownership vs. renting.
* To buy or to BUILD?
* Which mortgage lender, and what are the finance options if you have no deposit whatsoever.
* The first home owners' grant - how does this get paid and at what stage of the process? ie. can it be used for the deposit?
* Any other hints and tips you have based on your experiences.



With all due respect I completely disagree with KryalKastle's opinion of buying vs. renting.

I'm one of <5% of Financial Planners in Australia that give qualified advice on direct property investment and essentially clients pay me to structure and offer them investment advice on property, shares, super, tax, risk and asset protection etc, so I know what I'm talking about.

Firstly can I say one of the biggest misnomers in the industry is that "rent money is dead money". That assertion simply isn't true. It's true your paying for someone elses mortgage, but the alternative to that is paying a bucketload of interest cost on your own mortgage for your home.

Now simply paying the interest cost on your own mortgage doesn't bring you any closer to owning your own home outright, all youre doing is keeping your head above water. Which is pretty much the same as paying rent. You're just maintaining the status quo. So if rent money is dead money, so is the interest cost you pay on your own home mortgage... because neither get you any closer to owning your own place outright. In fact... the interest cost on your own home will be far more expensive than the rent.

Let's look at the numbers:

-----

Option 1:

You buy your own home for $300k. It's basically the cheapest home you can afford, which means its not the home you ultimately want to live in, and it's certainly not really suitable to raise a family in in terms of its size.

at a 7.35% interest rate (which is the standard variable rate less professional discount) your Interest only repayments are $22,050 per annum. Now that's JUST the interest only portion, you will want to make principal repayments on top of that.

Assuming an average growth rate of 7% pa, your home basically doubles in value every 10 years. So in 10 years your place is worth $600,000.



Option 2:

Instead of buying, you rent the same house as in Option 1 which has a market value of $300k.

Average Victorian/NSW rental yields would hover around the 4% per annum mark. So that means that your rental cost would be about $12,000 pa. So already you're saving $10,000 a year than in option 1, and you're living in the same house. In option 1 you're shelling out $22k a year and thats just interest cost, you're not even getting your principal loan amount down.

You take that $10,000 per annum you would otherwise be plowing into your mortgage in option 1, and you use it to invest. For $10k pa you could probably hold investments/investment properties to the total value of $700,000.

Assuming an average growth rate of 7% pa, your investments/investment properties basically double in value every 10 years. So in 10 years your properties are worth $1,400,000.

--------

So in option 2, you lived in the exact same place as in option 1 for a much cheaper cost, with the money you saved you used it to buy investment/investment properties which after 10 years were worth $1,400,000 compared to the $600,000 your home was worth in option 1. Even after taking into account CGT you are streets ahead in option 2 in terms of wealth.

Another thing to consider SLM is that this $300k place is probably only going to be a transitional home for you. That is, you're not going to want to live in it for a long time, and it's not going to be your dream home... why? Because really it's the only thing you can afford to buy right now.

Given the fact that it is a transitional place until you can afford and then find your dream home, why would you pay $22,050 pa (option 1) to live in it, when you can pay $12,000 pa (option 2) to live in the exact same place?

And as noted by the numbers above, you can use the money you save in option 2 to go on and create further wealth so that down the track you will have a really big sum that you can sink into that dream home and get the loan down to as small as possible when the time comes.

Personally renting pitfalls are highly subjective. I rent and I've lived in the same place for over 3 years and had only one inspection in that time. I put hooks through the walls if I want to hang stuff and I've never had any problems. I find people tend to exaggerate the downsides of renting out of proportion to what they really are.

I'm also not saying that personal home ownership is wrong or financially bad. Ideally it's what everyone should be working towards. I'm just saying that starting off with a personal owner occupied home loan that is really large 80% -> 100% is bad. Because owner occupied loans are non-tax deductible debt and when you have a large one... well that makes for a very expensive combo.

My personal situation? I happily rent and own 3 investment properties.. I'll buy my own home one day, and when I do it will be my dream home. I'll liquidate all the investment props and pour the equity/capital gains I've made straight into the loan. So I will a) have a kickass house worth lots of $$$ and b) it will have a relatively small home loan attached to it which I have to service.

It doesn't make sense to me to keep trading up owner occupied homes along the way. It's very expensive as option 1 above demonstrates, and in the end all I'll be doing is trading up to more expensive homes which equal more expensive loans, with little of my own personal wealth or capital that I'll be able to inject into it to get the loan down because I had to spend it all on high 7%+ interest payments along the way.

SLM I strongly urge you to go and see a financial adviser that has expertise in direct property and get some specific advice. This stuff is really really important and the difference between a good and a bad decision can basically affect you and your future family for the rest of your life. Don't take my word for it, don't take anyone elses word for it, don't solely take advice off a msg board...
 
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Great post macksta!

I personally believe that renting is a waste of money because in the long run you don't get anywhere, dont end up owning anything and never ever end up making any money out of all that cash you have poured in (unless of course you do buy an investment property, but a lot of people get stuck in the rent trap). But like i said, renting is great for some people who move around a lot and want to live in different houses that they would never be able to afford to buy.

Can i just ask macksta - are you in sydney or melbourne? cos sydney home prices are a lot lot more expensive than melbs. and if you own 3 properties in sydney - good job!!!! :)
 
kryalkastleE said:
Great post macksta!

I personally believe that renting is a waste of money because in the long run you don't get anywhere, dont end up owning anything and never ever end up making any money out of all that cash you have poured in (unless of course you do buy an investment property, but a lot of people get stuck in the rent trap). But like i said, renting is great for some people who move around a lot and want to live in different houses that they would never be able to afford to buy.

Can i just ask macksta - are you in sydney or melbourne? cos sydney home prices are a lot lot more expensive than melbs. and if you own 3 properties in sydney - good job!!!! :)

Nothing says you need to buy property in the city you live in! :)

I'm in Sydney but my properties are in Melbourne, Brisbane and the regional industrial QLD town of Gladstone.

And yeah, renting by itself achieves nothing.. you need to be out there acquiring assets in order to make money!
 
Something for $300k in Narree Warren or Berwick (Melbourne) would be more than suitable to raise a family - 4 bedrooms, lock up garage, huge backyard - I guess it depends where you're looking to buy. We'd be willing to go out that far.

But I really do understand what you're saying Macksta. That house wouldn't be our "dream" home by any stretch of the imagination - just something better and bigger than where we are now. And it seems like such a lot of money going down the drain on interest.

I'll let you in on a secret; I'd be perfectly happy to rent all my life. I really have no emotional attachment to owning a home whatsoever, and I think I'd be perfectly happy if we never did - just upgraded to a nicer rental and spent that mortgage money instead on our children's education and holidays. But unfortunately I'm married to someone who thinks the exact opposite, and I'm the one who's more willing to compromise. :)

Just gathering info and asking questions right now.... not going to make any rash decisions just yet ;) Thanks guys.
 
Macksta said:
And yeah, renting by itself achieves nothing.. you need to be out there acquiring assets in order to make money!

Yeah good post, but at the end of the day I'd imagine you can throw all the figures and pretty charts you want at people over buying vs renting and you will still struggle to overcome their emotional attachment to owning their own place.
 
hoptis said:
Yeah good post, but at the end of the day I'd imagine you can throw all the figures and pretty charts you want at people over buying vs renting and you will still struggle to overcome their emotional attachment to owning their own place.

Absolutely. It doesn't have to all be about the numbers. I've had plenty of clients not take my advice because their emotional attachments have been too strong, and I've had plenty of others change their beliefs re. property ownership completely. But that's ok either way, fulfilling the clients true needs and wants is the most important thing after all. My advantage is that I don't have any of that emotional attachment, so I can present them the raw and most efficient numbers. They then decide whats more important to them, the emotional pull, or the $$$.

The scary thing is that most dive straight into owning their home without ever really properly understanding the alternatives, and so they don't make truly informed decisions.

And so the numbers and figures aren't about bulldozing people into making a certain decision, they're about making sure they understand all their options.
 
Interesting thread, I'm in the renting but wonder if I should be buying category myself simply because the annoying move every year factor
 
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