Buperman
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2014
- Messages
- 6
Hello all... Im a first timer and I want to write a brief history of my experiences with Suboxone and Subutex and then shed a Huge light on this tapering then jumping off thing since it seems like alot of people that taper down forget one thing before they jump... First things first, yes im new to BL and first timer on forums period but just because i am a newb doesnt mean im not educated and dont know what im talking about... I just dont know all the acronyms yall use.
I did a cold turkey withdrawal from 12-16mg of Suboxone per day and could not take any other drugs or otc/herbs whatsoever. The only thing I did was drink my way through it. Got hooked again and again quit cold turkey at 8mg a day but this time it was way easier thanks to me being able to/have access to different drugs.
Clonidine: My list topper. Lowers your blood pressure, blood pressure and rate of breathing. I also found that it greatly relieved my RLS. Great for bedtime
Loperamide: if w/d from suboxone or subutex it probably wont work for you until day 3 because buprenorphene has a long half life and is still binding to your mu receptors even though your not high. Depending on your dose at the time of you jump off, you may have to take more or less than me. Start at 4 if that doesnt help after 30 mins take 4 more etc. The key is only take it when you absolutely can not handle the w/d anymore such as for RLS (alot of peoples breaking point symptom),to be able to sleep or not shitting yourself when you have to run errands. Do not take enough Loperamide so that you can go about you day like your back on your opiate of choice only enough so w/d is tolerable. Alot of people just say f*ck it and take 150mg of this stuff and think theyre fine but after 2 days of not taking Loperamide, guess what? Loperamide is an opiate and it will cross your BBB! Loperamide addiction is very real and you will w/d from it. As with any other opiate use it in moderation or it will suck you in.
Vallium: Great for sleep but as with anything dont abuse it or you run the risk of dependecy. Try a milder approach at first as this should be your last resort. 5-HTP, L-Trytophan, Melatonin or even OTC sleeping pills first.
Adderall: Heres how Adderall works. Picture your brain as a bath tub, endorphins as water that flows outa the faucet into the tub, water going down the drain as endorphins being broken down, and adderall as the drain plug. When you exercise or do anything "rewarding" to your brain it produces endorphins. Think of this as turning on the water in the bath tub. Opiates/Opiods are artificial endorphins and when you are addicted your brain stops producing them because you already have plenty in your body. It also takes your brain a while to start producing them again and this is why we go through withdrawal. When you ingest opiates/opiods you are also turning on the water in the bath tub. So now you have a steady stream of water (endorphins) flowing into the tub (your brain) but they are still just going down the drain (getting metabolized and broken down by another compound your body uses to keep your endorphins at a steady level). When you ingest adderall (put the drain plug in), adderall inhibits this compound that breaks down endorphins and your brain has way more endorphins than normal (water filling the tub instead of going down the drain). Heres the catch with taking Adderall for opiate w/d: it wont do a damn thing but raise your heart rate and make you anxious (youre putting the drain plug in without water flowing) If your brain isnt producing its own endorphins. Until your brain starts producing at least some endorphins on its own again dont bother taking Adderall. By about day 7 or 8 you can use Adderall to fight the fatigue successfully.
Alcohol: Always resort to this before any other drug to battle w/d if you can hold it down. It wont be the best sleep but, yes, you can still drink yourself to sleep. Do NOT mix it with sleeping meds or other depressants or you might not wake up. I am NOT responsible for you if you do mix alcohol and other depresent or any other combination for that matter.
Marijuana: If it makes you anxious dont do it. You will just aggrevate your already existing symptoms. If it calms you down, do it.
Sex: Even though you are only going to last 5 minutes if your lucky, you will forget your even W/Ding.
Exercise: Force yourself to start exercising around day 4 or 5. It will stimulate endorphin production. I basically ran my way through W/D. Hop on the tread mill for even 2 minutes and youll feel better. It also decreases the time you spend dealing with PAWS.
Lastly, (here is for the people who can successfully taper down) i want to put in my 2 cents on this buprenorphene tapering. First things first in this theory, get a pill cutter for subutex or a razor blade for suboxone (as they only come in the sublingual strips now). Next, have a standard control size of how much you are going to take like peices of paper cut to give you a stencil for cutting your sub strip. Do NOT rip Suboxone strips with your fingers or break Subutex pills with anything but a pill cutter. You will never be accurate and even a little peice of buprenorphene is extremely powerful to someone without an opiate/opiod tolerance.
In all the forums that i have read everybody tapers by days at a time. Ive seen alot of different methods but the one that makes the most sense to me is the most common which is a gradual taper. If you take 8mg a day, when you are ready to start tapering, lower your dose by whatever is comforatable to you whether that be down to 6mg a day or 7.99mgs a day depending on how long you wish to taperdown. Keep in mind that buprenorphene has a long half life so dont try to taper down too much too fast. You could cut your dose in half for 4 days and feel like you are fine but when day 4 rolls around and w/d kicks in dont be suprised. The key here is starting the taper down weekly and then by the hour of your last dose.
Here is what everyone (from what I have read) does wrong: "Help, I jumped off at .5mgs of buprenorphene and im w/ding bad!!!". Once you are at .5mgs taper down by the hour. If you take .5mgs on monday morning at 7am take .5mgs at 8am on tuesday then 9am on Wednesday then 10am on thursday once you get to 4 days of consistent tapering hold that time for 4 days so when monday rolls around again take it .5mgs at 11am then tuesday at 12pm etc. etc.. Eventually you will be at every other day, then every third, fourth. Once you are at every 4th day I would say you are more than ok to jump off and not have any w/d at all. I think alot of people fail to understand just how powerful buprenorphene is to the non opiate tolerant human body. The first peice of suboxone i ever took was a tiny crumb given to me by someone who said "yea i know it looks small but trust me". I put that tiny crumb under my tongue and was flying high for a day and a half.
Keep this in mind, Everyone is different. What works for me might not work for you and vice versa. The hourly tapering idea is just my theory. It makes sense and probably is 99.9% true. In my eyes, I would rather "get hit by a train than slowy bleed out for months" so i prefer the cold turkey method. I also look at the w/d from cold turkey as God teaching me a lesson. Going through cold turkey w/d makes me never want to touch an opiate/opiod again, I have learned to welcome the pain because it is the price you pay for being high everyday and to get your clean slate or rebirth at the end. There is nothing like the feeling of conquering opiate/opiod w/d. You start to feel it around day 8 and believe me my friends you will feel invincible and better than you did when you were on the shit.
You were meant to have bad days and not always be in a good mood. If it werent for the bad things in life you would not have anything to base a good thing off of.
I did a cold turkey withdrawal from 12-16mg of Suboxone per day and could not take any other drugs or otc/herbs whatsoever. The only thing I did was drink my way through it. Got hooked again and again quit cold turkey at 8mg a day but this time it was way easier thanks to me being able to/have access to different drugs.
Clonidine: My list topper. Lowers your blood pressure, blood pressure and rate of breathing. I also found that it greatly relieved my RLS. Great for bedtime
Loperamide: if w/d from suboxone or subutex it probably wont work for you until day 3 because buprenorphene has a long half life and is still binding to your mu receptors even though your not high. Depending on your dose at the time of you jump off, you may have to take more or less than me. Start at 4 if that doesnt help after 30 mins take 4 more etc. The key is only take it when you absolutely can not handle the w/d anymore such as for RLS (alot of peoples breaking point symptom),to be able to sleep or not shitting yourself when you have to run errands. Do not take enough Loperamide so that you can go about you day like your back on your opiate of choice only enough so w/d is tolerable. Alot of people just say f*ck it and take 150mg of this stuff and think theyre fine but after 2 days of not taking Loperamide, guess what? Loperamide is an opiate and it will cross your BBB! Loperamide addiction is very real and you will w/d from it. As with any other opiate use it in moderation or it will suck you in.
Vallium: Great for sleep but as with anything dont abuse it or you run the risk of dependecy. Try a milder approach at first as this should be your last resort. 5-HTP, L-Trytophan, Melatonin or even OTC sleeping pills first.
Adderall: Heres how Adderall works. Picture your brain as a bath tub, endorphins as water that flows outa the faucet into the tub, water going down the drain as endorphins being broken down, and adderall as the drain plug. When you exercise or do anything "rewarding" to your brain it produces endorphins. Think of this as turning on the water in the bath tub. Opiates/Opiods are artificial endorphins and when you are addicted your brain stops producing them because you already have plenty in your body. It also takes your brain a while to start producing them again and this is why we go through withdrawal. When you ingest opiates/opiods you are also turning on the water in the bath tub. So now you have a steady stream of water (endorphins) flowing into the tub (your brain) but they are still just going down the drain (getting metabolized and broken down by another compound your body uses to keep your endorphins at a steady level). When you ingest adderall (put the drain plug in), adderall inhibits this compound that breaks down endorphins and your brain has way more endorphins than normal (water filling the tub instead of going down the drain). Heres the catch with taking Adderall for opiate w/d: it wont do a damn thing but raise your heart rate and make you anxious (youre putting the drain plug in without water flowing) If your brain isnt producing its own endorphins. Until your brain starts producing at least some endorphins on its own again dont bother taking Adderall. By about day 7 or 8 you can use Adderall to fight the fatigue successfully.
Alcohol: Always resort to this before any other drug to battle w/d if you can hold it down. It wont be the best sleep but, yes, you can still drink yourself to sleep. Do NOT mix it with sleeping meds or other depressants or you might not wake up. I am NOT responsible for you if you do mix alcohol and other depresent or any other combination for that matter.
Marijuana: If it makes you anxious dont do it. You will just aggrevate your already existing symptoms. If it calms you down, do it.
Sex: Even though you are only going to last 5 minutes if your lucky, you will forget your even W/Ding.
Exercise: Force yourself to start exercising around day 4 or 5. It will stimulate endorphin production. I basically ran my way through W/D. Hop on the tread mill for even 2 minutes and youll feel better. It also decreases the time you spend dealing with PAWS.
Lastly, (here is for the people who can successfully taper down) i want to put in my 2 cents on this buprenorphene tapering. First things first in this theory, get a pill cutter for subutex or a razor blade for suboxone (as they only come in the sublingual strips now). Next, have a standard control size of how much you are going to take like peices of paper cut to give you a stencil for cutting your sub strip. Do NOT rip Suboxone strips with your fingers or break Subutex pills with anything but a pill cutter. You will never be accurate and even a little peice of buprenorphene is extremely powerful to someone without an opiate/opiod tolerance.
In all the forums that i have read everybody tapers by days at a time. Ive seen alot of different methods but the one that makes the most sense to me is the most common which is a gradual taper. If you take 8mg a day, when you are ready to start tapering, lower your dose by whatever is comforatable to you whether that be down to 6mg a day or 7.99mgs a day depending on how long you wish to taperdown. Keep in mind that buprenorphene has a long half life so dont try to taper down too much too fast. You could cut your dose in half for 4 days and feel like you are fine but when day 4 rolls around and w/d kicks in dont be suprised. The key here is starting the taper down weekly and then by the hour of your last dose.
Here is what everyone (from what I have read) does wrong: "Help, I jumped off at .5mgs of buprenorphene and im w/ding bad!!!". Once you are at .5mgs taper down by the hour. If you take .5mgs on monday morning at 7am take .5mgs at 8am on tuesday then 9am on Wednesday then 10am on thursday once you get to 4 days of consistent tapering hold that time for 4 days so when monday rolls around again take it .5mgs at 11am then tuesday at 12pm etc. etc.. Eventually you will be at every other day, then every third, fourth. Once you are at every 4th day I would say you are more than ok to jump off and not have any w/d at all. I think alot of people fail to understand just how powerful buprenorphene is to the non opiate tolerant human body. The first peice of suboxone i ever took was a tiny crumb given to me by someone who said "yea i know it looks small but trust me". I put that tiny crumb under my tongue and was flying high for a day and a half.
Keep this in mind, Everyone is different. What works for me might not work for you and vice versa. The hourly tapering idea is just my theory. It makes sense and probably is 99.9% true. In my eyes, I would rather "get hit by a train than slowy bleed out for months" so i prefer the cold turkey method. I also look at the w/d from cold turkey as God teaching me a lesson. Going through cold turkey w/d makes me never want to touch an opiate/opiod again, I have learned to welcome the pain because it is the price you pay for being high everyday and to get your clean slate or rebirth at the end. There is nothing like the feeling of conquering opiate/opiod w/d. You start to feel it around day 8 and believe me my friends you will feel invincible and better than you did when you were on the shit.
You were meant to have bad days and not always be in a good mood. If it werent for the bad things in life you would not have anything to base a good thing off of.
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