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Bupe Buprenorphine as a recreational drug?

Morninggloryseed

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It has been almost two weeks now. Bupe does NOTHING to me as far as a high. I am prescribed 16mg/day and generally use 8-12mg. There is ZERO euphoria, zero of the motivation and energy I am used to with my D.O.C. I have been physically dependent on opiates since October 2002.

Under the tongue doesn't work for me. I just salivate and end up swallowing most.

I insufflate it, but have tried IMing it...the effects from IMing it were no better than insufflation. I may try the rectal route...but in general I don't think this works for me. If I am not out of this severe depression (I am thinking about suicide which I haven't in two years...since the last time I tried to quit) in two more weeks, I am moving to methadone.

On top of that...the things I looked foward to never happened. Bupe only seems to last 8hr or so for me. I start getting edgy after that. ANd I wake up every day in mild WD....not anywhere near as intense as before...but still uncomfortable.

And its expensive...I have to pay $40 for every script. That is about what I was paying for my pods every month once you factor in the copays for the Dr. Visits. If I am going to have to spend all of this money, I might as well get something that has an antidepressant effect on me. I've never tried methadone so I am in all honesty going to obsess over it until I know.
 

Electrolyte

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^If you have a tolerance to opioids, buprenorphine is most definitely not going to get you high (I assume you do have quite a tolerance, since you stated you have been physically dependent on opiates since Dec 02).
 

Ufotofu9

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Oct 4, 2007
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Bupe and IVing

Hi.

I am prescribed 60 8mg subutex a month.

So if you have seen my story in the past, you´ll see that my addiction was quite low (I was taking codeine pills). In fact, I kicked the codeine on my own by not taking it through two days of flying from Europe to the states. You haven´t wd´d until you´ve done it on a plane!

But I mainly got the Subutex for maintanance/recreation/just to know it´s there just in case.

Unfortunetly, taking 8 under the tongue, and than 12mg sublingual did nothing recreational. It didn´t do a thing at all!.

Maybe it´s one of the drugs that some people swear by while others say it´s worthless (I´m looking at you Tramadol and Darvon). But then again I´ve read some fanstastic trip reports on subutex.




I would like to go the IV route (I have before with the help of others) but I just can´t get the IV method right by myself. Follow me here please and help me get this right by critiquing my mistakes:

Let´s say I´m gonna IV Subutex (or H or oxys or what-have-you).

-So I have a fine powder.

-I take a measuring spoon which I find fits quite nicely on the tabel w/o tipping and I fill it with the powder.

-I fill the spoon with about a whole syringe´s worth of saline or water. I then take out the plunger of the syringe and mix it up good.

-I take a rolled up piece of cotton about the size of a pea (or a rolled up peice of tampon stolen from my sister to the same size) and stick it into the lqiuid in the spoon.

-I take my syringe and put eyelet down on the cotton and draw up the liquid slooowwwlllyyy as best as I can, avoiding the sound of air bubbles. More help in the drawing through a filter department would be helpful.

-My syringe is filled.

Now comes the tricky part. I put and alchohol swab on the injection spot.
Now, my only succesful self IV has been the veins in the crooks of my arms. Tose are easy I stick the needle in and draw up a dab to see if there is blood before I slam it.

But I´d like to give these spots a break (they haven´t been looking so hot lately), and I can NEVER succesfully IV a vein on my forearm. I just can´t find one! I am tall and lean, but when I make a muscle, tie a belt or tie or whatever, or try to lift weights, the veins don´t pop out.

In a well lit room I can sometimes see a blue vein on my forearm, but whenever I try to inject there I can´t get the needle in the vein and I get get nothing; nothing but ugly bruises that I have to hide.

SO what am I doing wrong? How do I find a good vein in my forearm, and if I find it, just how deep in my arm do I push the syringe?

Also, I have heard that the best method to find a vein is by feeling for it. So what do you feel for?

Any help on any step of this process would help:)

Thanks for answering my questions.

Cheers
 

chris1986

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Jul 14, 2009
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Had to sign up to respond to this because I found it interesting. I'm really surprised that people here are actually using Suboxone as a recreational drug. I have been prescribed thirty 8mg pills for the past year because of a previous addiction to oxycontin.

For maybe the first few months I found it to give a slight buzz but nothing even close to what opiates did. One thing I have noticed with this drug is that "less is more" in the sense that taking over 8mg a day is completely pointless. I usually stick with just taking a half a pill at the most a day otherwise I would get really bad headaches and just feel like crap. I don't really see this as a recreational drug even when I got buzzed from it just because the "buzz" basically makes you feel NORMAL to where you can function throughout the day. I barely think of that as being high.

It's a sad fact about us drug addicts that we actually think any drug that makes you feel like a normal human being again is considered getting "high". The difference between this and opiates is that on opiates you feel OVERLY euphoric to where you feel ridiculously happy and have a warm feeling surging through your body. When I was always high on oxycontin I felt like a god. I was the happiest person on planet earth.

Suboxone is more of a drug to make opiate addicts strip themselves of their godly title and slowly lower themselves back to earth again. Back to the place where emotions, problems, and feelings exist again. This is instead of withdrawing and crashing back to earth so fast that you not only hit rock bottom but break straight through into HELL. Nice metaphor, right?

I wouldn't take Suboxone as a recreational drug. It has a long half-life and stays in your system for days. Even longer if you use it continously. Then if you are using it illegally by buying it off the street or something you are going to just screw yourself over because if you ever run out you WILL go through withdrawals and be forced to go through them since no opiates will even work for at least 48 hours. Even when it does wear off you will be forced to start buying opiates just to feel good...itll just put you in a shitty place as an addict.

Use Suboxone ONLY if you are actually planning on getting off opiates and do it LEGALLY by going to the doctor. That way you never run out and you're actually maintaining your opiate addiction and curing it. Using this drug just for fun is a stupid idea.

I got lucky because I never missed an appointment with my doctor and never fucked around nor relapsed and he trusts me. So he put me on the Suboxone Assistance program which only two patients in each doc's office can be on it. So I get all my medication for free sent straight to the doc's office. So not only do I get suboxone for FREE but i get it right during my visit and I dont have to go fill a script and wait for it then pay over $250 for it. So your best bet is to ask about that program and DO YOUR BEST TO STAY CLEAN AND NOT FUCK AROUND.

DON'T SNORT SUBOXONE EITHER. TRUST ME. ALL THE ORANGE SHIT THAT DRIPS DOWN YOUR THROAT GOES INTO YOUR STOMACHE AND EATS AT YOUR INTESTINES. You will have horrible constipation and stomache pains eventually and could even endup having BLOOD in your stool. It kills your nasal passage too.

Now after a YEAR of being on suboxone I can tell you that it does not get me high at all anymore. If anything I barely feel normal. It's just keeping me off drugs and allows me to function throughout the day. I'm soon going to ween off of it and hopefully finally be back to being a normal HUMAN again. I'm seriously sick of pumping drugs of any kind into my body everyday. Its not healthy and its NOT good for you at all. I suggest any of you fucking around with these opiates and pills GET HELP AND STOP. This generation is going to die because of all these god damn pills. They shove every type of poison they can think of into these little round pills now.
 

Ufotofu9

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Chris 1986,

You're post is correct on several different fronts, but I'm afraid that you're in for a rude awaking if you expect to "weeen of of [Suboxone ]."

First I should mention that having my above post from 2/13/2009 is very embarrassing and not representative of the person I am today (only 5 months later, haha). It's like reading poetry that you wrote in 10th grade over a decade later.

Oh well, we all grow-up. except for me the change occurred in less than half a year!

Anyways Chris 1986, if Suboxone represents a huge improvement in your life as opposed to when you were an addict than that's wonderful, and I'm sure that you feel like you have completed a very difficult challenge--and rightfully so. Oxy is a very addictive drug, and addiction to opioids is just, well, you know how it is. It's hell.

But it's nothing compared to the hell of withdrawing from Subutex/Suboxone.

These drugs have an enormously long half life and the longer you are on them, the longer you will go through withdrawal once you have tapered down your dosage and stopped taking them. You may be surprised, but Bup has wickedly cruel withdrawal symptoms. In some cases Bup w/ds have been described as being worse than one's original drug of choice (DOC). If you check out a post in Bluelight's "Other Drugs" section you will find that that is the consensus of many people, including one Moderator who rated his Bup withdrawals as being worse overall than his his original Heroin withdrawals.

And finally here's the kicker: I challenge you to find ONE person who has ever successfully stopped Buprenorphine after being on it for, let's say , more than one month.

Subutex/Suboxone may be a miracle drug for some, and it may represent a HUGE lifestyle improvement. But be prepared to be on Bup for life.

Sorry for being so pessimistic but this seems to be true. I have been continually researching Buprenorphine for the last couple of months, having even subscribed to academic journals for access to Buprenorphine studies, etc. and I have not once found a successful case of Bupe detox lasting any sort of appreciable amount of time.

I have recently been on the track of substituting Subutex for a a shorter acting opioid in order to ease the Bupe w/d's.

Most doctors see Bupe as a great new alternative to Methadone to help opioid addicts, and for some people it is appropriate. But in their enthusiasm for a take home Methadone substitute, I'm afraid that doctors have ignored the long term complications that Bupe presents, namely the virtual impossibility of getting off of Buprenorphine.

I wish you the best of luck.
 

vicodelicious

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Been on bupe for 10 months. Started at 16Mg/day: PO, then bumped up to 24mg/day: PO, than crazily jumped up to 32mg/day: PO. At higher doses, you definitely DO NOT feel anymore positive effects from the opiate it's self. I think that's because there is an analgesic plateau that the bupe reaches.8)

It is now 8 months later and I've tapered myself down for at maximum dose of 2mg/day: nasal. This may not sound right to you but it's true, and I get a whole loss hell of constipation as well as a much, much, much ,more, profound suboxone buzz.:\

Intravenous route of administration is just a lot of work, for too little of a pay-off. Sure it can be done, sure you can feel it, (no REAL rush), and yes it comes on very fast... But there are just too many negative unhealthy side effects associated with it. If you're going to IV it, look it up how to do it, there are plenty of instructions. (With no opioid tolerance I wouldn't suggest injecting more than 0.1mg IV)

Then there's the good old anal route. I'll make this quick. This MOA works best. Lasts longest comes on fast, is powerful and is just top notch. =D Again, there are theads on how to plug Suboxone/Subutex correctly....:)
 

chris1986

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Ufotofu9, I understand everyone's right to an opinion but I must disagree with almost everything you've said.

First can I ask, were you on Suboxone under a doctor's supervision? Are you going to counseling along with your treatment? or is Suboxone a drug you stumbled upon during your abuse of opiates and found it to be capable of giving you a high?

You challenged me to find someone who has successfully gotten off of Suboxone. I personally know of two close people to me who were on Suboxone for over two years and have successfully gotten off of it and have been clean ever since. The withdrawals are NO WHERE near as bad as say Oxycontin. I know from personal experience because I originally tried Suboxone during my abuse stage by getting it off the street before going to a doctor the right way.

I found that Suboxone withdrawals consist of the minor side effects that a drug like Oxycontin would induce. I would get cold sweats and feel exhausted the entire day. However, within a day or two I already had no anxiety and was able to eat food normally and get up and function. Not even close to Oxycontin withdrawals where you literally want to die and your whole body is aching.

The fact that you are substituting Suboxone for a "short acting opiate" is probably the worst idea ever. To say that you've changed in a five month span and that your change is to use drugs again is kind of sad, no offense. I feel bad for you because you are in a denial and think you have an excuse to get high again.

The problem with the people you speak of who have been on suboxone for years and still can't get off is that they are not attacking the actual problem. Addiction is caused by an underlying problem in your psyche and is not just a "habit". That is why counseling goes hand in hand with Suboxone treatment. You have to find out what is CAUSING you to do drugs in the first place otherwise you will never recover. The people you are speaking of are literally just substituting their normal drug for Suboxone which they can get from a doctor rather then a drug dealer. Same shit, different drug. Suboxone is a powerful drug and CAN get you high....so there needs to be counseling to help you understand yourself.

The problem is that most addicts like us are SELFISH and stubborn and do not want to do counseling because they feel "defeated" by it. Let me tell you that the first stage to overcoming your addiction is to GIVE UP THAT SELF PRIDE. You have to take on embarassment and shame as a new trait otherwise you will never allow yourself to get help.

There IS life after Suboxone. I have seen it with my own two eyes. I am on my way to that same place. I already have weened down from 12mg a day all the way to 4mg a day and plan on going down to 2mg in the next month. It will be a challenge that I'm willing to take. Using suboxone as recreational use is a mistake. Trust me. Don't fuck around with this orange pill.
 

|3UPE

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bupe for recreational use is great for people who arnt opiate tolerant. i been Prescribed for Maintanence for about 3 years. the first year and a half i was on suboXONE, goin on and off, get high for a few weeks, get back on subs for a few months, its a shitty cycle. after the last run i whent to rehab though, got out, got back on subs, bitched about them, got on the whites(subutex) just straight bupe no nalaxone- i know people who snort them shits. shoot em. i been on subutex for 15 months. no relapse. its way better then the orange ones. they both are gay as shit though after a month. subuTex, idk how its kept me clean. probly cuz i switched the herOn for benzos. its better to be just totally clean from all drugs. i wanna kill myself about 5 times a day
 

|3UPE

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oh and chris1986, suboxone aint too hard to ween off, i agree. the subutex's though, way harder, worse than herOn i think. its longer, subutex gets deep in and takes while to get out. fuck it suboxone, subutex, that dipshit who was talkin bout tramadol, methadone, FUCK U DIE GO TO HELL stayin on BUPE for longer than 12 months will turn u into a suicidal slump.
 

chris1986

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OpiodSlave - I took 8mg recreationally last night, I still feel a nice lil body buzz
See to me that's gross. I can't even imagine taking a full pill in one day even now after 12 months of being on it. I seriously can't stand taking this medication and only deal with it because it's helping me.

As bad as this sounds...if you're gonna take a pill to get high then stick with actual opiates. I would never willingly or choose to become addicted to Suboxone as my drug of choice. So gross! Even doing it as a recreational drug is stupid even if you don't have a tolerance to opiates. You seriously might as well enjoy yourself more and get an 80mg Oxycontin.

If you are comparing the high you get from Suboxone versus opiates it's a completely different world. Also if you actually choose to take pills like Vicodins or percs MAKE SURE you get the ones with only 325mg of acetaminophen which are called "Norcos" because too much will kill your kidneys and liver. This is the amount of aspirin in the pill and it WILL cause constipation and intestinal bleeding. I can break it all down pretty simply for you:

Vicodin - Warm body buzz. Starts out shortly as a "speedy" high but quickly turns into a downer within a few minutes. Mild euphoria with moderate dose.

Percocet - Closer to a speedy high but still a downer since it contains acetaminophen. Strength is double that of an equal dose of Vicodin.

Oxycontin - Intense SPEEDY high. Major increase in energy with strong euphoria. Makes you want to constantly be talking or doing stuff kind of similar to the side effect of cocaine. But the end of the high turns into a warm body buzz that eventually makes you really tired.

Heroin - Depends on the quality. First 15 minutes after snorting it is the best. All of your muscles completely relax all at once instantly. From my experience you literally almost SHIT your pants because even your ass muscles relax. You get this incredible warm feeling all around and sometimes you might feel a little "speedy" for a few minutes but ultimately ends up being a downer high. I've never shot up or pricked my skin with heroin or any drug and never will stoop to that level so I cant tell you how it feels. I can imagine it's an intense first 15 minutes right after you shoot it but its stupid because you end up using triple the amount to stay high and its more addictive.

Suboxone - Slight buzz and speedy high for the first 15 minutes. Slowly transitions into feeling comfortable and relaxed. After about an hour is when it starts to actually take it's true effect. You will feel moderately good for the next 8-10 hours and at least be able to function throughout the day. It kind of makes you want to do stuff but more along the lines of sitting in your room alone rather then going out and being social. INTENSE EXHAUSTION at the end of the high!! You will continue to nod off and fall asleep even sitting up.


HOWEVER I HIGHLY SUGGEST ANY OF YOU WHO HAVE NOT SHOT UP OR USED A NEEDLE FOR OPIATES CONTINUE NOT TO. DO NOT LISTEN TO ANY OF THESE PEOPLE ON HERE ENCOURAGING NEEDLE USE OR SAYING HOW GOOD IT IS.

Using a needle not only makes you feel like a complete loser and scumbag but you will NEVER be able to hide your addiction because your arms are full of nasty bruises and scars and blood blisters. It also makes it impossible to stop doing it. If you SNORT heroin or oxycontin there is MUCH MUCH MORE of a chance of stopping then there is with a needle.

Also if you notice that even when these kids get on Suboxone to try and help themselves they are not only addicted to heroin they were ALSO highly addicted to the entire RITUAL of using a needle and shooting up. So now these kids are SHOOTING UP SUBOXONE. I can't even begin to explain how fucking NASTY that is. DO NOT SHOOT UP SUBOXONE OR EVEN THINK OF USING A NEEDLE. Once you agree to use a needle and get to that point your life will be completely over....theres no turning back.

WHICH IS WHY these kids are talking about SUICIDE and wanting to kill themselves. ALL BECAUSE OF THAT ONE CHOICE TO USE A NEEDLE THE FIRST TIME. You guys FUCKED up....should of listened to the rational voice in your head telling you not to do it.....rather then the devil on your shoulder encouraging you to just get that intense high and enjoy it. BAD MOVE.
 

motiv311

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Yes.
I put it under my tongue.
It's pretty good methadone meets tramadol.
Never experienced it because its so perfect for tapering with. It would be longer but probably less intense.
^ Wow I never thought of it like that. . . almost a perfect description of the drug. Methadone and tramadol.

Suboxone is an amazing drug if your a junkie. I can do almost any drug except opiates, I lose control quick. I was on suboxone for two and half years after my girlfriend died of an overdose.

I kept trying to taper. But even the tinyiest piece made me feel like I had railed 20 mgs of oxycontin. Still does last time I checked.
 

Ufotofu9

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Oct 4, 2007
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238
Sorry that this thread has gotten way off topic...probably my own fault.

To Chris1986: I think that I've said everything that I wanted to say, except I want to show you this article which discusses a three and a half year study by the University of Edinburgh in which researchers found that the prescription painkiller dihydrocodeine is equally as effective as methadone to help drug users kick the habit.

In the U.S. doctors are incredibly limited in their drug treatment options for opioid dependence and maintenance; It's either Methadone or Buprenorphine. They are not allowed to Rx much weaker opioids for maintenance like in the U.K.

And just to clarify, when I said that I am embarrassed by my post from 2/13/2009, I was referring to the fact that I was asking advice on how to I.V Subutex and other self-destructive behavior. I certainly am in treatment for addiction, and I didn't mean to infer that I am a "new man" after 5 months. It's just that I would no longer go around on harm reduction forums, asking how to bang Subutex.

I wish you all the best Chris; but I think your expectations should be realistic.
 

Captain.Heroin

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I think buprenorphine is a great recreational drug.
 

smacks24

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What if you've taken tramadol recently (like within the last 3 hours as well as daily for awhile), and then take suboxone? Will it induce withdrawal?
If I also have a tolerance to oxycodone, for instance, but haven't had any for a few days, will dissolving the suboxone under my tongue make me sick? And would it have any recreational value?
 
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chris1986

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I wish you all the best Chris; but I think your expectations should be realistic.

You're using the wrong terms. It's not about expectations. It's about determination. Fighting an addiction does not depend on a factual statistic based on your research of the average outcome. It's about your personal strength and willingness to accept defeat and get the help that you need.

I could show you 100s of articles about freak accidents in which statistics show that 99.9% of people in that same situation would have perished or that the odds of survival were one in a million. But the person survives and pulls through it. It happens so often that you could rule out the idea that it was based on luck. Somewhere in that equation is a person who is determined to live life and has a strong desire to battle the odds.

Nobody or no thing is stopping you from beating your addiction. Find me an article which says that someone withdrawing from Suboxone or Subutex has even come close to dying. I can already say that nobody has ever died before you research. That being said, the only reason that people would fail at getting through the withdrawal stage of Suboxone is because they did not have the will power to fight the urge and end up relapsing. There is no consequences of stopping other then a rough time functioning for a few weeks followed by some depression. Which is what a support system is there for...to help you through that stage.

Once again I have seen with my own eyes multiple people who have successfully weened off Suboxone & Subutex and remained opiate free ever since. This is situations where the person got off Suboxone over a year ago and are still clean today. People who started families with a wife and kids who struggled with this still were able to get off of it. Possible because they had something to live for or a goal? Maybe that's your problem.

I understand you have it set in your mind that what I'm saying is unbelievable because you have failed at it before. That's the problem. You don't have any faith in yourself or the will power to fight the addiction and get the proper help. Sorry to say, but once again your choice to take a "short-acting opiod" in order to ease the withdrawals is taking three steps backwards. You are giving yourself an excuse to get high again by claiming it's a proper regime to quitting opiates. That is the problem! You still haven't accepted the fact that ALL opiates need to be removed from your life.

You can't cure opiate addiction with more opiates. The fact that you think that is a good idea shows that your opinions are skewed. I really recommend that you get a counselor and start taking the proper steps to getting clean from everything including Suboxone and Subutex.

Since my last post a few months back I have successfully weened myself down to 2mg and have been on that dose for months with no trouble. Still feeling great. I started at 12mg a day and have dropped to 2mg in less than 12 months. No offense but I don't see the trouble you are referring to. You must not have a strong will power. Work on that and you'll be on your way. Good Luck.
 

Captain.Heroin

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What if you've taken tramadol recently (like within the last 3 hours as well as daily for awhile), and then take suboxone? Will it induce withdrawal?
If I also have a tolerance to oxycodone, for instance, but haven't had any for a few days, will dissolving the suboxone under my tongue make me sick? And would it have any recreational value?
I think tramadol can be used regardless of buprenorphine intake but I have no personal experience to back this up at all.
 

johanneschimpo

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^ Yes, it can. I do it on the regular (tramadol on top of sub).

I also can take suboxone pretty quickly after tramadol, while I still can feel it, without getting precipitated WDs, but I don't know if thats the norm. It makes for a convenient switch from agonist ---> bupe, though I haven't used it for that for years.

The two mix pretty well (better than any other opioid mixes with bupe, well I suppose nucynta and other tramadol-like drugs do too). The first thing I said is universal (and even if you don't feel the mu agonism you'll still feel the SNRI effects). I don't know about the second (going from tramadol ---> sub).
 
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