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Bromo-dragonfly scraps and bickering

Walkaway

Bluelighter
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> Didn't someone mention it would in his opinion be best fitted for
> an outdoor event?

Someone certainly wouldn't recommend that for a first experience.
 

Walkaway

Bluelighter
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Apr 20, 2003
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> I don't remember the name atm but I know at least one Benzo
> that is strongly increasing and potentiating the effects of DOB.

Perchance are you thinking of the psychedelic folklore regarding DOM and Thorazine (not a benzo)?
 

crOOk

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Like they are going to spontaneously inform themselves at a rave.
Lol, not spontaneously. If there is noone around who knows that shit, noone is gonna take it... Simple as that.
And like those medics are going to know all about any possible contraindications between bromo-dragonfly and other drugs. They're going to know all about it...uh hum.
Like I said, no other drugs will be involved! If I get vasoconstrictions, I'll go for nitrates, I'm absofuckinglutely sure the medics will have nitrates around! And well, for other scenarios there will be antipsychotics and benzodiazepines and opiates...
Yeah but a rave is not a wise setting to experiment with an unresearched chemical like this one.
Well, for you it might not be, but I have told you a couple of reasons why it is. Besides, I guess you call it rave to make it seem more dangerous, but it's a freaking Goa event in the middle of nowhere with lots of nature around, the only think that's raving about it is the music. I will have lots of friends around, I won't have to worry about school, work or whatever shit (besides the chem), I will have medics around, I will have benzos, antipsychotics and nitrates around, there will be other experienced trippers, why the fuck are you worried about it being an outdoor event?!
But you had to ask.
Yeah, well, I reconsidered, what are you trying to say?
Some one did, and someone else reported a loss of contact with reality. And even the person who said it would be good for an outdoor event wrote: "For the record, SWIM took it in an apartment, with a sober assistant, and ready access to a phone."
I will have access to a phone, it's gonna be right in my pocket, and 15000 other phones will be around as well. And that guy who lost contact with reality took like 1mg, didn't he?! I'm gonna try a low dose, dude. Besides... I have lost contact with reality before on psychedelics and loved it... :D

Quit trying to talk me out of it, it's going to happen, and be sure I won't give the drug to someone who's never heard of it before. Btw there is another bluelighter you might know who will most likely be taking it on the same event.
One more thing... If it is anything like what I am expecting, it will be a typical phenethylamine type of thing. Euphoric, speedy etc. You should rather warn me of smoking that DPT freebase while I'm there which is probably going to happen!:D Because THAT can be some scary shit and THAT might not be perfect for an outdoor event. Btw, I have had my fair share of experiences with psychedelics (somewhere around 100 trips not counting dissociatives) and which each one came greater respect for those substances!

I don't remember the name atm but I know at least one Benzo that is strongly increasing and potentiating the effects of DOB. :\
Source? To me this sounds like a pharmacological impossibility. Plain bullshit. I have strong doubts that either an antipsychotic like Thorazine, or a benzodiazepine like Temazepam or Lorazepam could possibly have any effects like that. If they had, I would most likely know about it. Then again, I have not studied pharmacology and have been surprised before by weird chemical interactions, so thanks for the warning. I'm still going to ignore it unless I will hear more reliable information on this topic.

crOOk
 
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feign

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Like I said, no other drugs will be involved! If I get vasoconstrictions, I'll go for nitrates, I'm absofuckinglutely sure the medics will have nitrates around! And well, for other scenarios there will be antipsychotics and benzodiazepines and opiates...
So...you're not going to mix drugs with it, unless of course you feel the need to mix drugs with it. See original objection to mixing drugs.

why the fuck are you worried about it being an outdoor event?!
Because you'll be outside, with no control whatsoever over your setting, in the middle of nowhere, taking drugs that only a fucking retard would want to take, AND planning on giving them to ther people. That's why.

Yeah, well, I reconsidered, what are you trying to say?
Glog, feel free to correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but I'm pretty sure what he was trying to say was, "You're a stupid fuck."

One more thing... If it is anything like what I am expecting, it will be a typical phenethylamine type of thing. Euphoric, speedy etc.
What?! Seriously, how can you possibly say something like this? This is an EXPERIMENTAL DRUG. Perhaps less than 10 people on the planet have ever done it, and one of them reported that it completely disconnected him with reality. But you're "expecting" that it'll just be a nice trippy ride.

You should rather warn me of smoking that DPT freebase while I'm there which is probably going to happen
Ok, I will. Smoking DPT during this event, while on Bromo-dragonfly would escalate you beyond any levels of stupidity I have ever encountered. Honestly, how could you POSSIBLY think that's a good idea? And what ever happened to "Like I said, no other drugs will be involved!" Seriously, I'm starting to think that you're TRYING to look like a retard, just so that you can get people riled up about it.

I have had my fair share of experiences with psychedelics (somewhere around 100 trips not counting dissociatives) and which each one came greater respect for those substances!
Are you still in the negative respect range or something, then?

To me this sounds like a pharmacological impossibility. Plain bullshit. I have strong doubts that either an antipsychotic like Thorazine, or a benzodiazepine like Temazepam or Lorazepam could possibly have any effects like that. If they had, I would most likely know about it. Then again, I have not studied pharmacology and have been surprised before by weird chemical interactions, so thanks for the warning. I'm still going to ignore it unless I will hear more reliable information on this topic.

For fuck's sake man, listen to what you're saying. "I don't know shit about pharmacology, toxicology, or drug interactions, but that sounds impossible to me." Seriously, PLEASE reconsider all this. I'm not trying to tell you what to do with yourself, or what drugs to try...hell, maybe you'll even Darwin yourself at this rave and we won't have to worry about this sort of thing again, but what you're planning to do is downright dangerous, and no amount of asinine rationalization that you can give will change that.
 
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crOOk

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@feign
Feign, dear, I'm just not going to start answering to everything you said, with all those insults in your post. You keep twisting my words around... I don't really know what your goal is (troll?), but I simply can't take your statements serious in any way. Maybe you should try again. If it'd be up to me though, just don't. Please. Btw, do some reading about BDFL and you might know why I have certain expectations.
EDIT: I just can't help it, but I have to quote you once:
feign said:
listen to what you're saying. "I don't know shit about pharmacology, toxicology, or drug interactions, but that sounds impossible to me."
Uuuuh, I really don't remember writing that... It's kinda odd, you know, me saying something like that since I in fact do know "shit about pharmacology, toxicology, or drug interactions". You know what quotation marks are meant for, don't you?

@farabove_theclouds
Thanks for the additional information, really interesting to see how some people seem to react to this combination...
I promise I'll be careful.

@All
There is always a certain risk involved in ingesting psychoactive substances, especially new ones like BDFL. There are ways to reduce the harm that is posed by these substances to a minimum. I have known and used these methods for years and I'm pretty sure I would have some serious problems if I hadn't done it (physically or mentally). That said, I think you guys should put a "little" more trust into me, unless you never want to find out how BDFL acts. Someone is going to try it and that someone might not know about those harm reduction methods.
If anyone has further recommendations on how to reduce harm I'd appreciate it, seriously! Besides recommendations like not taking it at all or taking it at home... There is no rational objective explanation for why taking psychedelics at the place I am going to take them at is a bad idea... Being at home is not going to make it safer in any way, nor is it going to make me feel more secure, even it might make you feel more secure!

Now, anyone else trying to increase my anxiety about this thing by telling me what bad an idea it is to do that chemical?

crOOk
 
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feign

Bluelighter
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Let me quote you a second time:

To me this sounds like a pharmacological impossibility. Plain bullshit. I have strong doubts that either an antipsychotic like Thorazine, or a benzodiazepine like Temazepam or Lorazepam could possibly have any effects like that. If they had, I would most likely know about it. Then again, I have not studied pharmacology and have been surprised before by weird chemical interactions, so thanks for the warning. I'm still going to ignore it unless I will hear more reliable information on this topic.
Let's take a really close look at this, I'll write it all on its own line just to be clear:

"Then again, I have not studied pharmacology..."

Hence, you don't know shit about pharmacology, and you yourself admit it.

If you're confused about any other parts of my post, think I twisted your words, or otherwise misrepesented your intentions, I'd love to hear them so that I can clear the air.


There is always a certain risk involved in ingesting psychoactive substances, especially new ones like BDFL. There are ways to reduce the harm that is posed by these substances to a minimum. I have known and used these methods for years and I'm pretty sure I would have some serious problems if I hadn't done it (physically or mentally).
That's a pretty amazing ability you claim to have there. You actually think you know how to reduce the unknown potential harms of a completely experimental drug? If you believe you can actually do that, then I've got some ocean front property in Arizona I'm sure you'll love.

Please. Btw, do some reading about BDFL and you might know why I have certain expectations.
What, you mean the innane ramblings of everyone else on this forum? You mean the bullshit that is getting tossed left and right? "yeah man...bdfly is like, one of Mrs. Shulgin's favorites, right?", "No d00d, i heard it makes u trip mad sac", "Nah, man, its just a nice ride, but its looong isn't taht c00l?" Is that the sort of reading I'm supposed to have done about it? Because that's just about all there is out there. If you have some hidden source of information about this, explaining that it's just a nice trippy phenethylamine (despite the fact that not enough people on the planet have done the drug to get anywhere near establishing something like that), then I'd be more than happy to read it.

So let me reiterate, you're a moron. You're doing something dangerous. If you believe otherwise, you are kidding yourself. If you disagree with me, I'd love to see something better than, "You know what quotation marks are meant for, don't you?"
 

fastandbulbous

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Then again, I have not studied pharmacology and have been surprised before by weird chemical interactions
Well I have (I spent years in undergrad and postgrad work in my 20's), and nobody would have even suspected that DOB would have potentially serious vasoconstrictor actions above an active dose. Now because the dragonflies have a structure that is quite a modification of the DOx series, it has the capacity to possibly jump up and bite you in the arse in a serious way. Had you already tried a low dose and encountered no problems, I might be a lot less cautious about what you intend, but to be taking a first dose at such an event is foolhardy. My only try with DOB-fly (the di-(dihydro)version of the bromo-dragonfly) was with a low dose (500ug : est full dose is 800-1000ug) in the safety of my own house where any untoward reaction could be monitored and positively identified, which isn't easy in the sort of event you're talking about.

There are a list of 'unexpected' reactions, specifically to psychedelics which no-one expected, such as that 2C-T-7 could be fatal if insufflated after the oral route seemed fairly safe. It could be that a combination of bromo-dragonfly & heat (for example) may produce life threatening vasoconstriction/raise in blood pressure/clotting problems - all things that have happened with other phenethylamines; nobody even knows if bromo-dragonfly could have MAOI properties (like 4-MTA; another unexpected toxic reaction).

I think you're being quite foolish in taking such an unknown drug in such an enviroment - you could end up on a mortuary slab & we end up seeing it get scheduled before anybody finds out anything about it. No doubt you will take it at such an event, but then don't be surprised if you get lots of posts calling you an irresponsible idiot (or worse), because that's how you appear to be behaving.

There's a reason that official drug trials proceed one step at a time - because pharmacology can still throw up a hell of a lot of surprises still and psychedelics are one area that is still sadly lacking a large body of research
 

crOOk

Bluelighter
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@troll?
I know I am doing something dangerous. Else I wouldn't be talking about it on a harm reduction board.
Btw, there are other sources of information besides bluelight. Also I suggest you to read through the links posted on this page.
Oh, and you can reduce the harm of any drug, starting with things like choosing the right dosage. Also think about set and setting, drug source etc.
Oh, I'll ask you again: Please try to stop insulting me, neither does it make me look good, nor does it do that for you. Can we agree on not insulting each other in the future?

@fastandbulbous
Hmmm... Thanks for the pieces of information about pharmacological surprises. You sure made me consider taking a lower dose around 50ug before trying the 150-200ug on the voov.
Still, would someone please explain why exactly the voov is not an appropriate setting for ingesting the substance? I am not asking for subjective thoughts on the topic, but for "rational, objective" reasons against it. You might convince me of not taking the drug on the occasion I'm planning to take it on after all. I just don't see any reasons...
-It is a peaceful setting with lots of experienced trippers present.
-Nitrates, benzos, opiates, beta blockers, antipsychotics and whatever else I might need will be available since there are medics present that can get me to a hospital WAY faster than it could happen at home.
-It takes place away from my home, I won't have to worry about people coming to visit, neighbours becoming curious etc. Lots of other things.
-I'm gonna be in a great mood (if that is not the case I won't be taking psychedelics anyway!)

crOOk
 
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feign

Bluelighter
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Oh, and you can reduce the harm of any drug, starting with things like choosing the right dosage. Also think about set and setting, drug source etc.
Imagine that, thinking about set and setting...something you seem to not have done. Honestly, I don't really care if you wanna go be a guinea pig out in a rave somewhere with this stuff. It's not a good idea, plenty of people have told you that and you don't seem to want to listen, but whatever, it's your body. But, and I mean this with all sincerity, running around giving out doses of this drug to ravers who claim to be informed, like some kind of twisted modern day Dr. Mengele is inexcusable. Reconsider. Please.
 

Morninggloryseed

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This individual has obviously made his mind up, and is going to go forward with taking (and handing out) an unknown, experimental drug in a highly uncontrolled, risky, and dangerous setting.

Anyone with 3/4s of a brain can see how risky and foolish this indivisdual is...but frankly I think getting angry and wasting time trying to talk him out of it is also foolish as his mind is made up. If anything, he will be helping us to learn of any possible negative pharmacological actions BDFY has, and so I for one thank you for it. :)

And if he doesn't wind up naked, in a stream, preporting to be Allah and his son-in-law Ali...he can say, "I told you so!" :p And if it goes the other way...I will scratch BDFLY off my list as a drug safe for the masses.
 

crOOk

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Now that's the spirit morninggloryseed! What happened to good ol science? Where would science be today if we wouldn't take risks once in a while? Science is going down the drain anyway, just think about how many great inventions the unethical experiments during WWII have brought us...
And now look at where we are at today! It must be really frustrating to be a researcher these days, everyone is always talking about risks and harm and blah blah blah... No serious genetic manipulation of human beings, no cloning of human beings, no whatever. We learn through mistakes and will never get anywhere without people who can make decisions like I am going to make one.

crOOk
 

gloggawogga

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Still, would someone please explain why exactly the voov is not an appropriate setting for ingesting the substance?
Just ask the medics, whom you are so much depending on to save your ass, what they think about your plans to take a completly unknown unresearched drug and hand it out to others. I'm sure they will be thrilled over your plans, and have plenty of stories to tell about foolish people like your self. I mean you're gonna give these all these medics a 'heads up' before you do this so they won't be caught by surprise, right?

Now that's the spirit morninggloryseed! What happened to good ol science....We learn through mistakes and will never get anywhere without people who can make decisions like I am going to make one.
Bull shit. Don't kid your self. We don't need to take drugs at parties to to learn about their pharmocology. You aren't doing any science. All that you are doing is blindly pursuing a cheap fucking thrill without regard for possible consequences.
 

Blowmonkey

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crOOk said:
Btw, there are other sources of information besides bluelight.
You don't have to tell him that, he only came here to tell you what you're doing is fucking dumb and irresponsible. I think the stupidity came to a point where even feign could no longer held back from responding.

Don't be sad though, you'll be nominated cluelighter of the year if you pull this through.

Totally agree with that. I assume crOOk has read enough to make his decision, so even if we find it too dangerous and risky we have to respect his choice.
Yeah, I mean, if a quadruplegic wants to dip his fingers in a vial of 2C-T-21 and comes on Bluelight and tells us about this, we should be happy and respect his choice..

But hey, (gosh I hope I spell this right) crOOk just doesn't want our advice, he has a death wish..
 

moab

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Blowmonkey said:


Yeah, I mean, if a quadruplegic wants to dip his fingers in a vial of 2C-T-21 and comes on Bluelight and tells us about this, we should be happy and respect his choice..

As far it doesn't affects other people, absolutely yes. None of us has the right to judge others choices if those choices have been meditated. I'm completely free from my skin to inside, so I will ask for advice and listen to them, but I'll take the last decision. People can tell a choice is stupid, irresponsible and risky (and I never said crOOk's isn't) but you can't expect others to do what you say. People are responsible for their own acts.I hope now you understand a bit what i'm talking about.

I think lots of us ask for freedom, but are less permisive when it comes to others. And that upsets me quite a lot.
 

Blowmonkey

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fastandbulbous said:
but taking other drugs on top in such an enviroment is akin to an unspoken death wish and should NEVER be encouraged
Apart from that, taking other drugs on top of the bdfly will also completely ruin the valuable information that crOOk might have given us. Other drugs will alter the experience and most of these reports usually become useless pieces of speculation and mis-information.

Moab, operation web tryp doesn't ring a bell..? Just, nevermind..
 

moab

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Blowmonkey said:

Moab, operation web tryp doesn't ring a bell..? Just, nevermind..
I see you don't understand what i'm talking about. I'll answer you in a PM to keep it on topic.
 

djfriendly

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Blowmonkey[/i] Yeah said:
As far it doesn't affects other people, absolutely yes. None of us has the right to judge others choices if those choices have been meditated.
So it doesn't upset you that an idiot licking 2C-T-21 helped cause the shutdown of the RC market and sent lots of people to jail? You don't think that affects us? I do. Wait and see what happens to bromo-dragonfly once the Swedish kids all start taking their blotters this weekend...
 

serpent

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fastandbulbous said:
Serpent:

Cr00k's desire to dose himself with said dragonfly is his choice entirely, regardless of how foolhardy we consider it, but don't go telling him about taking other drugs in smaller quantities in combination with it would be safe even if he reduces the dose. Did you see my post on how things can turn out totally different to how you expect. Taking a pill of 4-MTA and then a small dose of say meth or MDA would land you in an A&E (ER for US readers) dept with a hypertensive crisis and possible serotonin syndrome. We have no idea which metabolic enzymes this compound might inhibit; therefore no idea of what effects other drugs might have on the body. Taking it at an outdoor event is taking risks (but that's, in the final analysis, his choice), but taking other drugs on top in such an enviroment is akin to an unspoken death wish and should NEVER be encouraged. There's a protocol for such things, and for these compounds, I've tried to devise one that is fairly safe, but even then I'm taking risks
sorry,in a previous post he mentioned that he was contemplating dpt with it.rather than telling him not to(which would probably encourage him,not the other way around)i thought it best to suggest taking less than normal,backed up by my own experiences of unexpected potentiation.of course he shouldnt mix dpt with it his first time,but if he does,then taking half a threshold dose would get the risk down a bit.
 

fastandbulbous

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Yeah, he does sometimes seem to operate with a mixture of 'fuck you, I'll do what I want' mixed with red queen logic (or is it the white queen - the harder you try to get somewhere, the further you end up away from it. That sort of logic). Sorry I know what you mean, I was just being a bit concerned if anyone else read it. 4-MTA is an object lesson in why not to mix drugs - on it's own it's a fairly poor cousin of MDA - a bit like IAP, but mix it with MDA/MDMA and you've got hypertensive crisis and serotonin syndrome. Two life threatening conditions
 

nuke

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So you have some stories to tell your friends, and so you can be at the front of the psychedelic frontier.

You only live once...
 
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