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Open Discussion Bluelight mods engaging in harassment and trolling

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JessFR

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Yeah, but if you keep reading, you'll get to the part about their 'black/gay/pcp-addicted friend' who apparently agrees with their closed-minded views - which makes it all okay 🤨

It truly is astounding how many minorities racist bigoted homophobic sexist intolerant people know.

Bigots really do have the most diverse friends... Who knew!
 

Mr. Krinkle

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Every drug has its evangelists here. If you’ve basically committed years of your life to getting fucked up on something in particular you don’t want to hear how bad it is and how sketchy itusers are (even if you secretly know it to be true deep down).

I’ve used meth for a few years and absolutely fucking hate it and discourage people on BL from going near it - but I still get a bit narky when I hear someone start slagging it off as unredeemably bad.

And you didn’t get modded in that thread as I recall. Mods can post against or argue with other users in their private capacities. Though it’s helpful if they say so when they do it.

i think i just got my hand slapped....it's all good...when he called me a liar, which im not, the gloves came off - that's all - but no need for that either - so i apologize
 

Mr. Krinkle

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Could it be someone else agrees with me?

I don't understand why we keep a subforum that causes about 60 or 70% of our drama when it is 0% of our underlying mission.

We don't need ceps to have a community either.

I mean no disrespect to the ceps mods here, it's not their fault. I just dunno how we justify it

thats exactly it....no matter what forum you're on, the politics section ends up all drama

it's either you let them go nuts there, and there only, or just shut it down - but if you're going to leave it, i wouldn't even bother modding it much

thats just my opinion
 

Perforated

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i think i just got my hand slapped....it's all good...when he called me a liar, which im not, the gloves came off - that's all - but no need for that either - so i apologize
No. Definitely not a slap. Just making conversation - though given this thread is about unjustifiably heavy handed mods I took the opportunity to point out that mods post as regular members too.

I sometimes find a conflict between my personal opinion and the need to mod something for the best interests of the community. There is no conformist ideological cabal at the heart of BL.
 

Mr. Krinkle

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so how long did Priest get sent to the penalty box for? did he get the game misconduct added also?
 

Xorkoth

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Look, can we stop suggesting that we close CEPS, please? It's a slap in the face to the people who work hard to run the place, and to the many posters who enjoy participating in there. The vast majority of posters don't cause any problems at all. I for one have learned a lot about opposing viewpoints and human nature from my time spent in CEPS and would not like to see it closed. The overwhelming majority of posters on Bluelight don't ever go to CEPS. Having political discussion in one of our sub-forums does not damage our mission or detract from our purpose. It has no bearing whatsoever on forums like OD, BSS, PD, Mental Health, the Dark Side, and so on.

Politics is a very charged topic, especially these days. Is it a difficult forum to moderate? Absolutely. Is it an emotionally charged place? Yes. That doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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Words do hurt people. Words can be very harmful among people who are already suffering mental issues.

Like say.. users of a support forum.

I would give a heartfelt consideration to the possibility that a drug support forum should be used first and foremost for... Drug support. And that if there are people who express that they feel hurt by the things said in ceps. That maybe their interests should come first and the people saying that shit, if they don't like it, should perhaps relocate to a more appropriate community.
What a joke, you have 100s of posts in CEPS yourself, many of which are calling Trump supporters pathetic and dumb as fuck, and a lot of other stuff that could be very offensive to people. Now that you have a change of heart about the forum, don't start with this shit.

I'd honestly argue that differing opinions and heated discussions offer far more value than a hivemind mentality or god forbid the straight up banning of talk about politics, and there's always a 'back' button. Facebook and Twitter and shit are all filled with politics negativity, and in that sense I understand where you're coming from, but Bluelight differs in that you can completely ignore it with 0 effort required.
 

Bella Figura

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I admit when SLR was introduced to BL I was like 'wtf why are people asking for love advice on a drug harm reduction forum. Who the hell is an expert on anything besides drugs here'. I basically felt the same way about every subsequent sub forum not pertaining to drug use.

Every thread in the 'serious' sub forums seems to be dominated by whoever has smoked the most meth that day or has the most bigoted views (or worse, a combination), its pretty hard to have a civil discussion sometimes, so I stay out of it completely for the most part or just take the piss, makes it easier to cope 😀

Apologies for this borderline useless contribution.

I do have lots of respect for anyone willing to mod those forums though. I certainly wouldn't have the patience.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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As I said before you can't have an area where gay people or transgender people or black people are repeatedly insulted, on a support forum. And then say it's their fault for not just ignoring it.
That is one way of looking at it, the other way is that for everyone doing this (are there seriously so much bigots and racists here?) there are multiple reasonable people throwing counter arguments at it, or straight up calling it out. Not only giving information that could come in handy in real life, but it can eradicate any feeling of being hurt and having a negative image of the BL community.

Bluelight isn't for free speech politics. It's for drug support. And politics keeps getting in the way.
They are not, CEPS is a subforum and political discussion is generally not really had in fora designed for advice on drugs, newer members looking for help won't see anything of CEPS that would interfere with them getting advice on how to use their drugs safely.

If you advertise yourself as a place for people to come and get support and help. You have a responsibility not to allow things that repeatedly risk harm to them.
Except that we do allow things that could repeatedly risk harm to people, we have threads talking about how fun some objectively harmful drugs are, a thread of people showing off their stashes, a thread allowing people to share all the drugs they took at a given day etc etc. This could potentially normalize use/abuse of certain drugs for readers, especially if we're going by such weak standards, so should we be banning these threads as well? No, of course not. I've seen multiple people saying that a subforum such as DC is enabling, likely much more harmful than one or two members saying something bad about transgenders and black people. But I don't want DC banned at all, it's a nice place.

This is the whole reason Bluelight works, particular discussions are limited to certain areas, we cannot be a 100% safe space for everyone, life isn't a safe space. Calling to close down a popular subforum solely on this basis is beyond ridiculous to me, and to me it's obvious that personal biases are clouding your judgement.
 

Perforated

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Every thread in the 'serious' sub forums seems to be dominated by whoever has smoked the most meth that day or has the most bigoted views (or worse, a combination), its pretty hard to have a civil discussion sometimes, so I stay out of it completely for the most part or just take the piss, makes it easier to cope 😀
We are trying, with a bit of experimentation, to find the most light-handed ways to manage both these issues and develop the forums in such a way that they generate productive conversations for the broadest possible audience. We want to attract more people, not just keep existing members happy. It’s not easy it find the right balance and the end result can be threads like this very one.

I think SLR a little easier than CEPS because First Amendment rights not the overarching perspective or expectation of posters there.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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For what it's worth, I think the CEPS moderation has been excellent all this time and I don't see the need for changes.
Every thread in the 'serious' sub forums seems to be dominated by whoever has smoked the most meth that day or has the most bigoted views (or worse, a combination),
I find this a strange impression, there are like multiple ongoing threads full of constructive arguments and discussion. I don't see much tweakers in CEPS. I'm well aware that I can get personal when discussing things, but there are many others that are always civil, constructive and probably even friendly.

I also don't get the narrative of large amounts of racism and bigotry in CEPS, I honest to god have barely seen any. And it's obvious Jess is not alone in her stance so I am puzzled.
 

Bella Figura

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I think SLR a little easier than CEPS because First Amendment rights not the overarching perspective or expectation of posters there.
I also see the HR value of SLR moreso now when people in abusive relationships post there and get the help they need. I just originally didn't understand what it was doing on a drug forum (I was much younger then).

And despite the bigotry of some people in CEPS they are vastly outnumbered by rationality and reason for the most part, they just tend to be the most vocal and I admit it puts me off a lot.
 

Bella Figura

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I also don't get the narrative of large amounts of racism and bigotry in CEPS, I honest to god have barely seen any. And it's obvious Jess is not alone in her stance so I am puzzled.
Srsly? That chauvin thread was totally devoid of racism and bigotry to you?

Re: strange impression, yeah I was generalising but hope I clarified in the above post.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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Srsly? That chauvin thread was totally devoid of racism and bigotry to you?

Re: strange impression, yeah I was generalising but hope I clarified in the above post.
No, but that's one thread, I honestly didn't read it in its entirety because it got quite ridiculous at some points. And I believe we're mainly talking about Priest here. Maybe another member said some bad things too, but apart from that, I really don't see a particular problem. I haven't really delved in the transgender thread mainly due to length and some exceedingly long posts.. =D but I don't think it has been too bad over there either apart from Priest himself.

Like I said, mods do what they can, it all comes with the politics game, but I am sure many would argue for the subforums existence.
 

F.U.B.A.R.

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My (probably unwelcome) take on this is that Floyd was obviously not a very nice man. That's not to say that he deserved to die, and Chauvin got what he deserved for the total disregard of another person's life. Unfortunately, it's very easy when the victim is black for any criticism of his character to be deemed racist. I believe in calling a cunt a cunt, regardless of their skin colour...
 

JessFR

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My (probably unwelcome) take on this is that Floyd was obviously not a very nice man. That's not to say that he deserved to die, and Chauvin got what he deserved for the total disregard of another person's life. Unfortunately, it's very easy when the victim is black for any criticism of his character to be deemed racist. I believe in calling a cunt a cunt, regardless of their skin colour...

Let's please not turn this into a political discussion <3 :)

This thread is already straying pretty close to the line of sth's purpose if not already over it
 

F.U.B.A.R.

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Let's please not turn this into a political discussion <3 :)

This thread is already straying pretty close to the line of sth's purpose if not already over it

Sorry Jess... :D
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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The better question is, would most (of the people who don't solely contribute in ceps and nowhere else) argue for its existence?
Whether or not most would argue for it is irrelevant, it's that most should actively argue against it. It's here, to want it gone it's not the task of the 'defenders' to argue for its merit, which to me is pretty clear. It's when most would argue against it that the conversation is valid, maybe most feel this way but I don't think so.
But damage done by ceps has nothing to do with drugs, it's not a cost of doing business it's just a detriment.
That is your opinion, I'm sure multiple people would argue that CEPS in its totality has not been a detriment. I brought up the DC example to counter the argument that everything that isn't 100% aligned with harm reduction should be removed.
If people say hurtful things to you over and over again, it's not simply erased by supportive voices. Those supportive voices are certainly better to have than not have. But they don't simply erase the harm
Okay, but Priest is banned right? If you go read some of the discussions taking place right now, I don't see how that is so particularly offensive.
At the very least we get to find out who the bigots are 😀
Exactly hahah, and this is why it's not that big of an issue imo. If it gets too much out of hand -> banned. This is hard and difficult for the mods but maybe some constructive criticism and ideas for how to do it better are more in order than straight up calling for it to be completely erased. And otherwise you can just laugh away at the ignorance. And if you know you are very sensitive to comments by other people on sensitive issues, just don't open the thread again... Like you don't open the stash thread when you're trying to stay away from certain drugs.

Erasing a whole subforum is such a drastic measure, I hope the Americans wake up soon so I can maybe get some assistance here...... :D
 
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