Gabapentinoids Bloody phenibut

CottonAndGuns

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Once upon a time I was on Gabapentin, then Pregabalin. Coming off those were easy as pish. I'd get skin flushes and brain zaps for a few days then everything goes back to normal.

In April whilst (successfully but slowly) tapering a largeish amount of DHC I grabbed some phenibut because hey other people had done great things like going CT off much more serious opioids thanks to phenibut. Problem was I discovered this beautiful thing after 2 years of massive depression that I couldn't shift. I figured it was my meds causing it, hence the taper. But it was going too slow, hence the phenibut. I really shouldn't have bothered. But fuck it my mood was so low, suicidal, hated it. I just wanted out. I tried switching my DHC to Loperamide, but the cheap loperamide in the cheap shops were suddenly starting to vanish. It was working really well because Loperamide lasts ages. I'd take 12 capsules once a day and that was that until having to go back to DHC. Then Phenibut.

I felt the best I'd even been knowing full well it was artificial. I cried tears of joy. Nothing could bring me down. So guess what I didn't do? Instead of reducing my taper I just went back to the full amount I previously took wanting to prolong this sensation. Fucking stupid. That was 2 months ago when I started and the last I took was 5 days ago (maybe 300g). My mood is slowly improving but fuck it hit hard. I first bought pre-measured capsules, my peak was 2.1g but I wasn't consistent with doses. Most days I'd have 1g/d.

I'd CT from tramadol before and the mix of anti depressant and opioid was pretty intense. But this was so much deeper and darker. On days 2 and 3 I'd get panic attacks for no reason at all. Just, my heart rate shot up, mouth went dry, twitchy, shaking. Bollocks. But even though I could have taken some more to lessen these effects I didn't want to run the risk of restarting. I'd made it this far and I find there's no real craving from phenibut. YMMV.

It got so bad that I was inches from getting a taxi to the hospital, just because I was worried what I'd do to myself when my wife's asleep or out helping her elderly grandparents.

I haven't had a full nights sleep since Monday night, but I'm not really sleepy. I tried it and it just doesn't stick. I'll maybe nod off for a minute but I can't stop turning over, or feeling super uncomfortable due to skin flushing/sweating.

On the flip side on day 3 (evening) it felt like I was over it. I was so happy and pumped that I didn't even take DHC that night. In a way it was a bit shitty teasing me like that because Day 4 was a bad one.

One of the worst aspects is how twitchy I am. It's a permanent anxiety attack. I'm trying to get through this by chilling out during the day and helping out my family and inlaws in the evenings. But when I'm sat back watching something or playing a game I find random spasms never in the same place. These started when I began taking phenibut and are still present in withdrawals. The lingering effect is now spasms, insomnia, skin flushes, feeling of complete and utter unshakeable dread and personal failure. I've been chatting to other people in this situation, those a day or two behind or ahead of me, and at least the withdrawals are all fairly common.

But on that Day 3 Evening where I felt normal again, when I even skipped my DHC... I loved that. Bad thoughts vanished not long after they began and had no chance to wreck havoc. I just want that to happen again. It's given me the confidence to maybe even stop the DHC - just taking a fraction of it to *lightly* dampen the withdrawals. Yeah. Let's try that tonight.

Sorry for rambling. It's just I've found some excellent withdrawal stories on phenibut on this site, and reddit, and I hope someone else years down the line finds this post and it helps them too.
 

Wilson Wilson

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Hey mate. You are 5 days into CT phenibut withdrawals if I'm reading correctly? Don't worry too much, phenibut is GABAergic and it does take your brain a little while to readjust to coming off GABAergic drugs. Give it another week and you will see significant improvement. Within a month you should be feeling back to normal.

And yes phenibut is no joke. People seem to get the impression it's not serious because you can buy it as a "supplement" or a "nootropic" (it is neither) but it is actually a pretty strong drug, it builds tolerance and dependence rapidly. The worst bit too is benzos won't help you taper because phenibut is an agonist of GABA-B while benzos are agonists of GABA-A. I did find that benzos helped me sleep and helped with rebound anxiety when I came off pregabalin though (same family of drugs as phenibut, they're gabapentinoids), that stuff gave me the worst withdrawals even though pregabalin has no GABA agonism. However since you are already trying to kick two addictive drugs I don't recommend turning to benzos.

If you have trouble sleeping and want to avoid anything else potentially addictive, I recommend weed or if that doesn't work buy some Phenergen (promethazine) from the pharmacy, imo it is a bit of a nasty drug but it absolutely will help you sleep. Hopefully you can get relief from good old cannabis though. It helps my anxiety and helps me sleep personally.

And good on you for tapering down your DHC too, keep on going with that sounds like you are almost off the stuff.
 

CottonAndGuns

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Hey Wilson Wilson. Loved you in Utopia. I might have overly waxed the DHC. I'm on a lot. I tried to cut it down and I made it 50% of my frequent dose. But when the phenibut WDS kicked in I basically went back up to the old DHC amount.

I've already got a script for promethazine. I was given that when a short run of benzos ran out. TBH I was so close to losing my mind that I didn't notice the effect it was giving me. I still take it every night but the good thing is when I don't take it I don't get withdrawals. When you say it's dirty what do you mean? Too sluggish?

I actually had a super shitty morning that I don't fully blame on the fenibut withdrawal. But I do keep twinging and being oversensitive to touch. A little tiny bit of a seed flew in through the kitchen window before and landed on my arm causing me to leap away like a bee had stung me. Don't get it. The muscle stuff only started when I was 1 month into my '1gpd for 2 months' fenibut experience.
 

Jekyl Anhydride

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Hey CaG,
Phenibut is not only a gaba-B agonist, but even more so a VDCC, voltage dependent calcium channel blocker of the A2-D1 class, just like Gabapentin. WW is spot on with his advice, and I too know the panicky feelings or my favorite, if you can get some sleep, the 40 seconds of terror that hits right when you wake up and get a jolt of norepinepherine that usually gets you going when you're not in Phen WD. If you have any gabapentin, try a small amount to mitigate some of the Phen WD effects.

It's far from a perfect cross tolerance but helped me quite a bit. Go easy on them too as the tolerance builds quick as I'm sure you know. I think you mentioned quitting DHC too? That's very admirable but poly drug WD's can be an even bigger hell than just the Phen. Personally I'd slay one beast at a time so you can put all your energy into cessation, instead of fighting a war on two fronts if that makes sense. I know this is hell but give it just a bit longer and I think you'll start to see light at the end of the tunnel.

Another bonus is you get more personality back and sharpen up a bit. At least I did, started understanding complex things that I couldn't while on Phen & benzos. Keep fighting the good fight
 

CottonAndGuns

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Hey CaG,
Phenibut is not only a gaba-B agonist, but even more so a VDCC, voltage dependent calcium channel blocker of the A2-D1 class, just like Gabapentin. WW is spot on with his advice, and I too know the panicky feelings or my favorite, if you can get some sleep, the 40 seconds of terror that hits right when you wake up and get a jolt of norepinepherine that usually gets you going when you're not in Phen WD. If you have any gabapentin, try a small amount to mitigate some of the Phen WD effects.

It's far from a perfect cross tolerance but helped me quite a bit. Go easy on them too as the tolerance builds quick as I'm sure you know. I think you mentioned quitting DHC too? That's very admirable but poly drug WD's can be an even bigger hell than just the Phen. Personally I'd slay one beast at a time so you can put all your energy into cessation, instead of fighting a war on two fronts if that makes sense. I know this is hell but give it just a bit longer and I think you'll start to see light at the end of the tunnel.

Another bonus is you get more personality back and sharpen up a bit. At least I did, started understanding complex things that I couldn't while on Phen & benzos. Keep fighting the good fight

Thanks for the words Jekyl.

In follow up to my last posts. Things have gone rapidly downhill. I haven't had any pheni for a week but I keep getting sudden spasms and jolts. You know how sometimes you get like a tiny random "flick" on your head, a tiny muscle twitch? I get that but I overreact to it as if someone has thrown a rock at me.

I'm full of dread and fear. Been reading up on glutamate storm/abundance after pheni withdrawal and its pretty much exactly a note for note copy of my current problems. Twitching, massive depression, anxiety, no appetite, insomnia, muscle spasms and jolts.

I'm doing the right thing and going to hospital, right? I don't know where else to turn. I wantsome gabapentin... because I had that once during pregabalin withdrawal. Hoping the doc will give me a bit until I can get back in with my GP over the week.

Small update= I took 200mg Pheni 90 mins ago. My mood is better, or rather I feel ready to tackle things that super-anxiety was holding back. It's still got a couple of hours to go but I'm hoping it alleviates these twitches till I can (hopefully) get a short course of gabapentin tomorrow.
 
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Jekyl Anhydride

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Just a heads up, most doctors know nothing about phenibut. You might want to print some wiki pages on it to take with you.

Or obtain it under other stated reasons.
I have to go right now but will check back in later tonight when I'm home. Those myoclonic jerks really are rough and just ones more thing to add to the list of symptoms.
 

Wilson Wilson

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Hey Wilson Wilson. Loved you in Utopia. I might have overly waxed the DHC. I'm on a lot. I tried to cut it down and I made it 50% of my frequent dose. But when the phenibut WDS kicked in I basically went back up to the old DHC amount.

I've already got a script for promethazine. I was given that when a short run of benzos ran out. TBH I was so close to losing my mind that I didn't notice the effect it was giving me. I still take it every night but the good thing is when I don't take it I don't get withdrawals. When you say it's dirty what do you mean? Too sluggish?

I actually had a super shitty morning that I don't fully blame on the fenibut withdrawal. But I do keep twinging and being oversensitive to touch. A little tiny bit of a seed flew in through the kitchen window before and landed on my arm causing me to leap away like a bee had stung me. Don't get it. The muscle stuff only started when I was 1 month into my '1gpd for 2 months' fenibut experience.
Happy to see a fellow Utopia fan! Such an underrated amazing show! I still cannot and will never forgive Channel 4 for cancelling it!

I don't blame you for going back to DHC, as @Jekyl Anhydride said tapering off two drugs at once is nasty business especially when it's GABAergics and opioids.

You can get gabapentin and pregabalin from the NHS for anxiety if you have that on your medical record and have already gone through the usual SSRIs. I am guessing this is what the promethazine script is for?

Gabapentin and pregabalin are both now controlled drugs so it might be harder than it was a few years ago, but if your record is clean (no drug abuse history on your medical record) you should still be able to swing it with an understanding GP. Explain your anxiety has flared up recently and you want something short-term to help and you have heard good things about gabapentin and pregabalin.

You definitely want to stay on them only short-term for tapering purposes though otherwise you are just switching one habit for another.

Best of luck mate.
 

CottonAndGuns

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Happy to see a fellow Utopia fan! Such an underrated amazing show! I still cannot and will never forgive Channel 4 for cancelling it!

I don't blame you for going back to DHC, as @Jekyl Anhydride said tapering off two drugs at once is nasty business especially when it's GABAergics and opioids.

You can get gabapentin and pregabalin from the NHS for anxiety if you have that on your medical record and have already gone through the usual SSRIs. I am guessing this is what the promethazine script is for?

Gabapentin and pregabalin are both now controlled drugs so it might be harder than it was a few years ago, but if your record is clean (no drug abuse history on your medical record) you should still be able to swing it with an understanding GP. Explain your anxiety has flared up recently and you want something short-term to help and you have heard good things about gabapentin and pregabalin.

You definitely want to stay on them only short-term for tapering purposes though otherwise you are just switching one habit for another.

Best of luck mate.
Hey thanks for that. Yeah I should be able to get the gabapentin. But another solution presented itself this morning... rehab!

Recently I fessed up to my doc about buying DHC online. They were really understanding about my situation, I really did get it because the docs didn't do much for my pain. They put me in touch with some drugs group. I phoned them and booked an appointment without knowing who they really were. Turns out they're a rehab group. I'm actually really fucking pumped for this. I know it'll be hard but I'm so ready to be done with pheni, DHC, and codeine too. I've been taking way too much for way too long exhausting a good chunk of my money.

Those muscle spasms though. gah. The only reason I took any pheni was because of them. truth be told I didn't get any cravings for it. I did feel done but the spasms were just way too big, frequent, and getting worse the longer I was in WDS.

I feel like my life is just ready for this rehab thing. It's gonna be tough but I need this more than anything. I've wasted too much already.
 

CottonAndGuns

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Just a heads up, most doctors know nothing about phenibut. You might want to print some wiki pages on it to take with you.

Or obtain it under other stated reasons.
I have to go right now but will check back in later tonight when I'm home. Those myoclonic jerks really are rough and just ones more thing to add to the list of symptoms.
Will do thankyou! I might be heading to rehab this week (for the DHC) and I guess they'll take care of any of these spasms. Will be printing out what I can about phenibut though. You've been so helpful!
 

Wilson Wilson

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Hey thanks for that. Yeah I should be able to get the gabapentin. But another solution presented itself this morning... rehab!

Recently I fessed up to my doc about buying DHC online. They were really understanding about my situation, I really did get it because the docs didn't do much for my pain. They put me in touch with some drugs group. I phoned them and booked an appointment without knowing who they really were. Turns out they're a rehab group. I'm actually really fucking pumped for this. I know it'll be hard but I'm so ready to be done with pheni, DHC, and codeine too. I've been taking way too much for way too long exhausting a good chunk of my money.

Those muscle spasms though. gah. The only reason I took any pheni was because of them. truth be told I didn't get any cravings for it. I did feel done but the spasms were just way too big, frequent, and getting worse the longer I was in WDS.

I feel like my life is just ready for this rehab thing. It's gonna be tough but I need this more than anything. I've wasted too much already.
With that good attitude and being ready to quit hopefully it will help you. I just hope it's a well funded service that can help you. You will also need to explain to them what phenibut is because likely they will have not heard of it before. Tell them it is similar to gabapentin and pregabalin but it also has GABA activity so they know what they're dealing with.

Codeine/DHC obviously they will know what to do, hopefully they taper you instead of giving you buprenorphine which I have heard about happening for codeine addiction many times in the UK, imo it's pretty overkill for a codeine/DHC habit and a taper on DHC would be easily preferable especially if you just wanna get off the stuff asap.

Hope it goes well!
 

Shortec Stublue!!

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The best feelings always have the deepest consequences, as you have found out with a vengeance.

These lot on here will tell you how much I love my Phenibut. I am yet to find a more complete compound to obliterate social anxiety, as this does. Some say it is worse than withdrawing from a Diaz or alpraz withdrawal, and I’d agree.

If you get some niacin and also pantothenic acid. That is niacin b3, also b6 and b12. This will help regulation of neurotransmission, back to homeostasis much quicker.

My ultimate combo, is Phenibut and Oxy, so I know your pain brother. Well done for reaching out to others that’s what it’s all about here 👍
 

CottonAndGuns

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With that good attitude and being ready to quit hopefully it will help you. I just hope it's a well funded service that can help you. You will also need to explain to them what phenibut is because likely they will have not heard of it before. Tell them it is similar to gabapentin and pregabalin but it also has GABA activity so they know what they're dealing with.

Codeine/DHC obviously they will know what to do, hopefully they taper you instead of giving you buprenorphine which I have heard about happening for codeine addiction many times in the UK, imo it's pretty overkill for a codeine/DHC habit and a taper on DHC would be easily preferable especially if you just wanna get off the stuff asap.

Hope it goes well!
Heya. Well, the appointment was interesting. I had to phone them this morning as my nerves were through the roof to confirm what they can offer. I asked about rehab. They said it's possible. I went in and gave my story... personally I thought it was nothing important or unique but they were blown sideways. They'd never heard of phenibut so did some looking up. The nurse didn't like that one bit. Said I'd made some bad decisions recently. Well doy!

But get this. I did a urine test. I was 100% honest with them, I even said "the only way this will work is if I'm honest" and spilled my guts. Cried a bit. Not my finest hour. But the urine test came back positive for benzodiazepines and buprenorphine. I told them the doc prescribed me 8 little lorazepams 2 months ago but I had those as quickly as I got them. The good news is the nurse was so shocked with the combination of chemicals in my body that he spoke about getting me into "detox" quickly. Cool! From that I expected to be given buprenorphine but due to it already being in my blood I'm unable to have any. They've told me to "withdraw from everything" including an antihistimine I'm on! And on Monday they'll give me meds.

4 days without meds? I don't think so. That meeting was just a few hours ago. I could maybe cope with one med withdrawing at once but not all of them. So now I don't know what to do. I've had to order some more painkillers which fucking crushed me as I didn't want to do that.

What I don't get is the nurse said I need detox ASAP but because I'm so fucked he's unable to help me until I'm half way into withdrawals anyways. What's the point in their service then? I might as well just hold on another 4 days and be free of all meds... if it was that easy I wouldn't be using your service!

I might just roll up to A&E and present as a panicky heart-attack waiting to happen maybe they'll help me.
 

Shortec Stublue!!

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I am a bit confused as to where your at here Cotton, have you gone in for assessment for your general problems or just Pheni? By the time they get you on a plan you will have unregulated again I suspect. Are you in the Uk, if you don’t mind me asking?
 

Wilson Wilson

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I can imagine a false positive for benzos popping up from phenibut but buprenorphine? That's got me stumped. They should be able to tell the difference between DHC and bupe...
 

Jekyl Anhydride

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We can't get to far into drug testing discussion as a rule on BL, but that does sound truly bazaar. Phenibut undergoes almost no metabolism and is no where close to a hydoxy-Pam/Lam. The Bupe is even stranger as Norbuprenorphine looks like a whole different animal in an immunoassay then norcodeine or the glucuronide .
I'd ask for a GC-MS (gas chromatography-mass spectography)of your test as that will show them it was a double! false positive. Unfortunately that doesn't help you right now, when you really need it.

Can you resume a Phenibut taper to help ease the opioid WD? I know you want to get off all of this stuff now, but just resuming a taper to feel sane again and concentrate on your situation and options might be the best course of action.

A small setback isn't the end of the world if it helps you attain your long term goal of sobriety. Of course I'm saying this assuming you still have some phenibut to use for an emergency such as this.
 

CottonAndGuns

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I can imagine a false positive for benzos popping up from phenibut but buprenorphine? That's got me stumped. They should be able to tell the difference between DHC and bupe...
We can't get to far into drug testing discussion as a rule on BL, but that does sound truly bazaar. Phenibut undergoes almost no metabolism and is no where close to a hydoxy-Pam/Lam. The Bupe is even stranger as Norbuprenorphine looks like a whole different animal in an immunoassay then norcodeine or the glucuronide .
I'd ask for a GC-MS (gas chromatography-mass spectography)of your test as that will show them it was a double! false positive. Unfortunately that doesn't help you right now, when you really need it.

Can you resume a Phenibut taper to help ease the opioid WD? I know you want to get off all of this stuff now, but just resuming a taper to feel sane again and concentrate on your situation and options might be the best course of action.

A small setback isn't the end of the world if it helps you attain your long term goal of sobriety. Of course I'm saying this assuming you still have some phenibut to use for an emergency such as this.
Yup it really confused me too. The thing is, due to this being a "helping people out of drugs" group they didn't believe me. I told them I was completely honest as "this will only work if I'm honest" I said to them. Bah. So because of that false report I wasn't given tapering meds. Instead I've had to go back to cold waters to last me until Monday. I wish there was a codeword you could say in these situations where they then believe you, because all the current ones "I'm not lying, honestly mate etc" just sound like you're lying.

Hey so funny follow up story. I went to hospital last night. Got in at 9pm, seen at 3am. Hooray! My mind was all over the place. I felt so broken. Smells went weird and uniform. Everything had a variation of a slightly chemically musty smell. Hard to explain. I wasn't sure which withdrawal that was causing that. Has that ever happened to anyone else here? Your sense of smell going do-lally?

The doc was really rushed so I didn't want to explain what phenibut was so I just said I'm withdrawing from DHC, Phenergan, and lyrica. So he gave me a single dose of DHC and a 300mg lyrica. Went to bed. Woke up 8 hours later feeling as tall as a mountain, and I was also king of the mountain. At this point I was only running off 5% of my usual DHC dose but the lyrica completely fixed that.

I've spent all day learning how to play Mario World Castle theme on the piano (such a fun song to play if you've never played/heard it. Fugue as fuck). It's doing a good job at covering up the withdrawals/massive reductions.

Lyrica though. Just 300mg was enough. I'll be feeling this for days. It's already been 13 hours and it's not letting up, in fact everything seems to be getting better. Hoping this will last until my proper DHC arrives tomorrow. I'm having no more phenibut but as I've found it pretty easy coming off that in the past I'll be okay.

It's really good talking to you all by the way. Just thought I'd say :)

PS. yeah I was thinking about going back to phenibut for this opiate withdrawal/reduction period but after taking it for over a month the *only* effect I get from it now is lowered inhibitions and that just leads me into trouble buying more DHC. It's best I stop it really. I've got this lyrica in my blood for now and if memory serves it's quite a long-lasting one. All I need to do is have no extra gaba stuff in my body come Monday.
 

CottonAndGuns

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I am a bit confused as to where your at here Cotton, have you gone in for assessment for your general problems or just Pheni? By the time they get you on a plan you will have unregulated again I suspect. Are you in the Uk, if you don’t mind me asking?
It was just phenibut originally but during my talks with them it's gone full blown into all the stuff I'm taking. I'm in the UK. Everythings going a bit fast. I made this thread as I was CT from phenibut for a few days and wanted to share my experience of it. But then I picked up weird WD effects like those crazy muscle spasms when resting. I haven't seen many people talking about that effect so I'm hoping others will read my experience and feel a little better knowing they're not/weren't alone :)
 

Shortec Stublue!!

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Yeah Pheni can be very strange in a taper, never mind Ct withdrawal. I remember being utterly bedroom bound once, and seemingly petrified of anything even talking on the phone would get my tachy.

You are defo not alone. Our NHS as you will know, can be amazing or down right hard work. Especially outside services etc. I always say world class at the point of trauma and A&E but after that slow to stop half the time.

Have a look into getting some B vitamins, particularly Niacin. It can help a great deal with Gaba issues. Also it helps keep a lower dose when you are taking Pheni.
 

Wilson Wilson

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Pregabalin (Lyrica) will absolutely help opiate withdrawals and definitely phenibut withdrawals. It's amazing for both. But dependence and withdrawal is just as bad as phenibut. I know I said that already but for the sake of HR it bears repeating.

Oh and yeah if you take pregabalin late at night you will feel it very strongly in the morning. When I was on it I always did a nice dose just before bed so when I woke up I felt it hit me in the face, especially the body high it gives ya. A fuck or even a simple morning wank also feels utterly AMAZING on pregabalin. Combining it with mephedrone is next fucking level for sexual experience.

That's my plan for my trip with my girlfriend this month. Last time we did a pretty big cocktail of drugs which was fun but this time I think it's best to keep it simple. Pregabalin for being fucked up and having increased sensations. Mephedrone for some stimulation, serotonin fun, and extra horniness. Then the pregabalin will help with the comedown from the drone too. So only need those two drugs.

Best way to use pregabalin imo is like this, just occasionally to get fucked up and have a good time, and avoid daily use because that's when it gets nasty.
 

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If it were me, I would simply go to the hospital and tell them you're detoxifying from Alcohol, Benzodiazepines, Mail-Ordered Fentanyl and the love of a good woman. To anyone who is intending to tell a medical professional about your Phenibut dependency, I would probably skip it. Most MD's/PsyD's etc. even those specializing in the field of addiction will be either unaware of the nature of Phenibut and what is required to medicate the withdrawal or simply won't care.

There has been a major trend over the past several years of folks getting involved in the mail-order Phenibut scene. This "trend" typically involves people trying the substance, enjoying it and proceeding to order as much of it as they can stomach. These guys seem to end up in a similar situation to yours OP, in that they are dependent upon a drug that is pretty unknown in the medical community and they don't know what to do.

Understand that you're addicted to a Gabapentinoid drug and go from there. Understand that you are unlikely to get any kind of meaningful assistance from the establishment by coming at them with a Phenibut-Dependence story. You will need to present some kind of different story.
 
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