Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R, TDS
- Oct 22, 2012
That's quite a roundabout way to say "I'm a White Supremacist."If cops have any type of processing in them that can be considered "racially oriented", pertaining to perhaps threat assessments or whatever, then this makes sense. Cops are 18 times more likely to meet their ends when dealing with black males, than an unarmed black male is to meet their ends with them. Police are basically just normally in a state of DICK, and DEMON, and that doesn't bode well for people doing things they're afraid of getting caught for. And those people just don't really deal with it well..
The single-greatest thing I think we could do is fix this stupid drug war. That is one thing that CAN BE DONE that is good for everyone, and doesn't mean "redistribution of wealth" as if most white families are not working for what they've got, that might allow wealth to redistribute itself in the way that it can be.
This brings me to another thought, this idea of "racial equality". Just how do we achieve or accomplish that? White people aren't equal to other white people. I'm not even equal to myself on my best day, right now, unless this is somehow going to be a better me/day. And I cannot expect that I be given a hand-out, just because of my skin color, or whatever, because of what someone else tells someone else - the hirer - to do. I can expect that if I am in charge of my own business, then I want to be able to choose my workers. I would want to treat them as fairly as possible, and I would not simply not hire a black person because they're a black person, in this day in age, but, who is it that is going to bring about 'racial equality'? Is it up to me to see the "need", to treat them and their identity like they're some charity case, to give a black man the position even though he's slightly less qualified than this white man here? Do we need laws to make sure that business owners, etc. do this? Hire more blacks? And if one thinks we need that - that this is a need - then this expresses a much greater problem.
With reparations, I have considered the only true/real reparations can really only begin, with separation. Because when will it end? This generation - the next? What will those consist of? Making New Hampshire less white? Certainly that's part of it. How would you like to be targeted for extinction (because what's the true end, other than dissolution of this... identity)?
I get having compassion and I get being considerate of others and their experiences: Fuck, that's how I was brought up. I was never overtly "racist" toward black people and in-fact count many among the good people in my life to be Black. On the scale of Critical Race Theorists, so-called, some of the prominent ones, I am a White Supremacist, for my certain natural preferences and orientations- That I like blond women and children better than I like black ones (natural tendency, what I want, not to say I hate the black ones), that I care first/most for those with my likeness, they give me no other choice, in their framework- In their framework I am either White Supremacist or White Betrayer, the scale between, and I choose SUPREMACIST.
It allows me to stand my ground. Otherwise, they're just trying to bring us to heel. To control us.
I have a back-bone. You, and government, will not tell me what to think. I am the fucking government!
Really- Again who and what is going to really bring about any form of equality? Fat equality? Am I going to be attacked for my dating choices now? White people are, that, too, you know. But we all discriminate. Am I no longer allowed to have my preferences? Maybe I just like this white dude better than this black dude that interviewed? Maybe I trust him more? Maybe, looking out for myself, it's better to?
That's again what I come to. What is best for ourselves? Is is really good for people who happen to be identified as "white people" now to have their countries inundated with 'others' (not of their identity, who won't vote for the same people, who will vote for people who look like them and think and believe like them), who are also looking out for what is best for themselves, their desperate, grabbing hands (all they can, all for themselves, after-all). What happens every time these immigrants pour in, is resources, from us, get diverted, to them (some of the most far left don't believe white Poles should even stay a majority in Poland, when it comes down to it - that the lives of all the browns pouring in to Europe, that may inevitably be there, too, saving them, should supersede them and their rights to life, to autonomy).
Now, do I think they're worthless people - outsiders... bad, evil, undeserving of love... no (and I don't target/blame them off the start, for any of it, really, other than perhaps being guilty of the same sin as everyone else...). But is this a loving situation? Is it promoting of love? Or does it just demand it - is it a shakedown of resources in some way? It demands from whites, but not others, the same. Asians get to share some of the burden of whites, though. Anyone that is able to blend in with whites will share that burden. It's really a sick, mentally sick, situation. White exists, as will black. Even if we can come up with a different name. Someone calling it a social construct doesn't do anything. Your house is just a construct and I doubt many of you can reproduce it better than a shack...
Again, I dance around and talk too much, but just how do you create something called "racial equality"? I hear the term so often. I am not going to be equal to the other guy. When is my race going to be looked at as a permanent charity case, to where I'll get the position, even if I'm mediocre? When will the Supermodel from Australia about to turn 18 choose me as her lover? Resources, wealth, is not distributed equally, and can never be. And some entire peoples have more wealth than others, by simply belonging to those people/ that identity. Is someone going to force 17 year old Australian Supermodel to date black guy because he's black? There's certainly the pressure to.
Edit/attempt-for-Clarity: What state of "repair" do any of us come from, anyway? To speak of a word of "reparation", what exactly is the state that we want to be repaired to? Is it even possible? Black men right now like white women more than white men like black women. There are many more things "unequal" about how things fall, between us. Was there ever a "state" where we were at all equal? Would white people have even - as if many even had a hand in it in the first place, even back then/when - gone out of their way to make their societies "more diverse", to out and find black people, others, to "make them a part of their community", or, was that itself born of a state of disrepair? And these black people, were they even a people, before they were sold by other black people to others, including Jews, Muslims, and Whites (even if a bit of a mongrel Orc breed, they're still "Whites"), and grouped as such away/separate from the ruling caste(s)? Or were they people that would fucking cut their 10 mile neighbor's head off for worshipping the wrong devil to perform some dumb blood ritual on it? They were peoples. Not really that well organized, tribal units, that warred with themselves, too, just like us. Along with us "sidetracking" them, or arresting their "development" we probably also sidetracked/arrested 100,000,000 genocides.
So again what is the state of "repair"? Was it ever a state of "repair" when we were forced to live together? Again, I come back to this: I don't mean to say they're evil or guilty or that I hate them for being different. I mean to say we're different, and we never fell from "grace", with them. And they too ransacked our shores... these 'others': round and round. So again, what is the "state of repair"? What exactly ARE reparations? Are they really in ANY place to make demands? I'd say, only because we let them... We've been battered mentally (not to blame anyone, but I wouldn't absolutely doubt the possibility that some conscious hands were in it, but I'd say a lot of it is simple, natural process and consciousness as it would come, naturally, which can be awkward...).
Not to say a baby's cries shouldn't be heard.. Not to say I mean to say it can't be helped. But not like this (to be led by a child on a tantrum). Not like the far left is pushing it, now. When, together, have different peoples (even if we 'othered' them, did doing that really begin with us, or can it be seen as like, well, "how's the weather?" - as like any other natural system) ever been in a state that was "whole, perfect", together, when we are different? Is it fair for us to expect unrealistic expectations? Is that any path forward? Who is leading, to where? What?
So again, realistically, I come to that we need to draw a border between us. They need a territory, and perhaps with this, some one-time "buy-off"- That might be the only thing that can be expected (not to say we can't help the "neighbor", in the right ways, if we can - hopefully if we needed help, they would, sometime in this "repaired" future, where we might "repair"), because we won't be slaves ("communism"... but we are, slaves, already?), and the alternative is War. So do we - need a territory, space, for us, to be (us). Or we need a king.
That's quite a roundabout way to say "I'm a White Supremacist."
Roughly one sixth of the US population is African American, for whatever reason, they commit a disproportionate amount of crimes.
Xorkoth said:If the problem has nothing to do with race and racial history, then what do you propose it IS because of?
Xorkoth said:If it's not because of systemic issues related to their race, then it's hard to see how one would argue that it isn't simply because of some inherent aspect of them as people, which is quite a racist way of looking at it, no?
Burnt Offerings said:What 23, I've read enough of your posts on here to know where you are politically-speaking, so I know that what I'm about to say won't change your mind. But racial equality is an aspirational thing...it's not something that will ever be fully realized or executed to completion in a way where everyone is completely equal, but that doesn't make it any less valuable as a goal to be worked towards.
In Australia they did a royal commission into systemic racism. The data does not support the idea that significant racism exists, but people just assume that's wrong. The commission is corrupt or something.
BLM should be PLM.
How is it a personal attack, when they literally said as much in their post?Do you find it easier to use personal attacks than to respond to his questions?
I read that 3 times, dont fully understand some points , what repatriation would resolve racial issues? You'd have an answer to this, wouldn't you?
Maybe there IS no amount of repatriation that can make up for past misdeeds, ever.
That's basically what I meant.
Criminal justice reform would be a start.What recompense do you feel will solve all racial inequalities in America right now ?
I doubt any amount of anything would do anything to heal America.
It just takes generations and shifts in population demographic over that time to become as part of history as slavery was.
Australia is not America.
WHY is there a far higher percentage of black Americans in poverty? You said we should stop pretending the problem exists to solve it.
There is a problem... Are you saying that hundreds of years of racial oppression (which you certainly admit happened, right?) which ended very recently in history doesn't affect the current state of things?
A combination of statistics, listening to people's stories, and what I have actually seen shows me that we still have progress to make in getting rid of systemic racism, at least in America
But it is possible to see all the shades of gray. As you say, it is complicated. It seems like willfully shutting out a lot of evidence and the experiences of others who are not you to try to just state "nope, none of the problems facing these people has anything to do with race, it's just a variety of other problems". I'm admitting to the existence of all of these problems and it seems like you're really interested in outright denying one aspect of the problems facing American society.
I think we need to work on changing police culture and training and intelligently allocate funds to be more heavy on treatment and mental health and rehabilitation instead of punishment, and de-militarize the police.
And we need to work on discriminatory attitudes in individuals and various communities, which is a much harder problem to tackle.
If you can't surmise how America is racist on your own, no one's going to be able to show you anything to shift your opinion. Desegregation was not that long ago, and we still have a political system that's been redlined and gerrymandered around racial lines. You understand that the black community is still overcoming slavery and Jim Crow right? That is what people are talking about when they talk about white privilege. White families have had generation after generation to build wealth and achieve economic success. Black families have had significantly less time, and thus their communities are still trying to overcome poverty.They are similar in this context. Both countries are young so they don't have a long colonial history. Their history is simple. They came and "stole" land and did horrible things. Europe is a mess of overlapping wars and falling empires. Australia is just white vs black.
I don't believe you want wealth to be equal.
Welfare certainly doesn't help. There are more black Americans (percentage wise) now in poverty than there used to be fifty/sixty years ago.
Nobody moves back to Africa.
Define it and show me it.
The system is structured around fairness. If there is systemic racism, define it. Show it to me. Anecdotes mean nothing. Not because I'm soulless. They mean nothing because we're not talking about the individual. We're talking about trends. We're talking about the big picture.
When there is a racist cop (of course they exist) we deal with that cop. Beyond that, I'm not sure what to do. That's a specific problem. That's the anecdote. The racist cop. You deal with him. But show me the systemic stuff that is complicated. In a population of over 300 million, show me the evidence of it.
I agree to some extent - you can't take power away from the police in the US - but this police thing isn't a racial issue. The police are a work in progress. Generally they are good people trying to do the right thing for their communities. Same as teachers. Sometimes there are bad eggs. Training can always be better.
Casual racism is not a systemic problem that can be solved and it shouldn't be mixed in with serious issues that require practical solutions. Not to say that it doesn't occur in that context (as it does in every context) but it doesn't help calling everything racist. We need to be able to see what is racist and what isn't.
If America is racist - not individuals in America - show me.
Specificity is important.
How is it a personal attack, when they literally said as much in their post?
I could go on and on about how white privilege is real and they're just trafficking in racist trite, but would they read it?
It's no wonder so many white people struggle to understand what racism is.
deficiT said:White families have had generation after generation to build wealth and achieve economic success. Black families have had significantly less time, and thus their communities are still trying to overcome poverty.