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Social Justice Black Lives Matter Discussion Thread

Burnt Offerings

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Someone posted this a while back but it was a very interesting lecture on the topic of race and crime IMO. It's provides interesting context for the lead-up to the present moment (she gave the talk in 2013), with some interesting facts (one such example she brings up is how there's supposedly more people in imprisoned for just drug offences in 2013 than there were imprisoned for ALL crime in 1980!)
 

What 23

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If cops have any type of processing in them that can be considered "racially oriented", pertaining to perhaps threat assessments or whatever, then this makes sense. Cops are 18 times more likely to meet their ends when dealing with black males, than an unarmed black male is to meet their ends with them. Police are basically just normally in a state of DICK, and DEMON, and that doesn't bode well for people doing things they're afraid of getting caught for. And those people just don't really deal with it well..

The single-greatest thing I think we could do is fix this stupid drug war. That is one thing that CAN BE DONE that is good for everyone, and doesn't mean "redistribution of wealth" as if most white families are not working for what they've got, that might allow wealth to redistribute itself in the way that it can be.

This brings me to another thought, this idea of "racial equality". Just how do we achieve or accomplish that? White people aren't equal to other white people. I'm not even equal to myself on my best day, right now, unless this is somehow going to be a better me/day. And I cannot expect that I be given a hand-out, just because of my skin color, or whatever, because of what someone else tells someone else - the hirer - to do. I can expect that if I am in charge of my own business, then I want to be able to choose my workers. I would want to treat them as fairly as possible, and I would not simply not hire a black person because they're a black person, in this day in age, but, who is it that is going to bring about 'racial equality'? Is it up to me to see the "need", to treat them and their identity like they're some charity case, to give a black man the position even though he's slightly less qualified than this white man here? Do we need laws to make sure that business owners, etc. do this? Hire more blacks? And if one thinks we need that - that this is a need - then this expresses a much greater problem.

With reparations, I have considered the only true/real reparations can really only begin, with separation. Because when will it end? This generation - the next? What will those consist of? Making New Hampshire less white? Certainly that's part of it. How would you like to be targeted for extinction (because what's the true end, other than dissolution of this... identity)?

I get having compassion and I get being considerate of others and their experiences: Fuck, that's how I was brought up. I was never overtly "racist" toward black people and in-fact count many among the good people in my life to be Black. On the scale of Critical Race Theorists, so-called, some of the prominent ones, I am a White Supremacist, for my certain natural preferences and orientations- That I like blond women and children better than I like black ones (natural tendency, what I want, not to say I hate the black ones), that I care first/most for those with my likeness, they give me no other choice, in their framework- In their framework I am either White Supremacist or White Betrayer, the scale between, and I choose SUPREMACIST.

It allows me to stand my ground. Otherwise, they're just trying to bring us to heel. To control us.

I have a back-bone. You, and government, will not tell me what to think. I am the government.

Really- Again who and what is going to really bring about any form of equality? Fat equality? Am I going to be attacked for my dating choices now? White people are, that, too, you know. But we all discriminate. Am I no longer allowed to have my preferences? Maybe I just like this white dude better than this black dude that interviewed? Maybe I trust him more? Maybe, looking out for myself, it's better to?



That's again what I come to. What is best for ourselves? Is is really good for people who happen to be identified as "white people" now to have their countries inundated with 'others' (not of their identity, who won't vote for the same people, who will vote for people who look like them and think and believe like them), who are also looking out for what is best for themselves, their desperate, grabbing hands (all they can, all for themselves, after-all). What happens every time these immigrants pour in, is resources, from "us", get diverted, to them (some of the most far left don't believe white Poles should even stay a majority in Poland, when it comes down to it - that the lives of all the browns pouring in to Europe, that may inevitably be there, too, saving them, should supersede them and their rights to life, to autonomy). It's not always without reciprocation...

Now, do I think they're worthless people - outsiders... bad, evil, undeserving of love... no (and I don't target/blame them off the start, for any of it, really, other than perhaps being guilty of the same sin as everyone else...). But is this a loving situation? Is it promoting of love? Or does it just demand it - is it a shakedown of resources in some way? It demands from whites, but not others, the same. Asians get to share some of the burden of whites, though. Anyone that is able to blend in with whites will share that burden. It's really a sick, mentally sick, situation. White exists, as will black. Even if we can come up with a different name. Someone calling it a social construct doesn't do anything. Your house is just a construct and I doubt many of you (individual humans, for a lot of part) can reproduce it better than a shack...

Again, I dance around and talk too much, but just how do you create something called "racial equality"? I hear the term so often. I am not going to be equal to the other guy. When is my race going to be looked at as a permanent charity case, to where I'll get the position, even if I'm mediocre? When will the Supermodel from Australia about to turn 18 choose me as her lover? Resources, wealth, is not distributed equally, and can never be. And some entire peoples have more wealth than others, by simply belonging to those people/ that identity. Is someone going to force 17 year old Australian Supermodel to date black guy because he's black? There's certainly the pressure to.

Edit/attempt-for-Clarity: What state of "repair" do any of us come from, anyway? To speak of a word of "reparation", what exactly is the state that we want to be repaired to? Is it even possible? Black men right now like white women more than white men like black women. There are many more things "unequal" about how things fall, between us. Was there ever a "state" where we were at all equal? Would white people have even - as if many even had a hand in it in the first place, even back then/when - gone out of their way to make their societies "more diverse", to out and find black people, others, to "make them a part of their community", or, was that itself born of a state of disrepair? And these black people, were they even a people, before they were sold by other black people to others, including Jews, Muslims, and Whites (even if a bit of a mongrel Orc breed, they're still "Whites"), and grouped as such away/separate from the ruling caste(s)? Or were they people that would fucking cut their 10 mile neighbor's head off for worshipping the wrong devil to perform some dumb blood ritual on it? They were peoples. Not really that well organized, tribal units, that warred with themselves, too, just like us. Along with us "sidetracking" them, or arresting their "development" 'we' probably also arrested 100,000,000 genocides.

So again what is the state of "repair"? Was it ever a state of "repair" when we were forced to live together? Again, I come back to this: I don't mean to say they're evil or guilty or that I hate them for being different. I mean to say we're different, and we never fell from "grace", with them. And they too ransacked our shores... these 'others': round and round. So again, what is the "state of repair"? What exactly ARE reparations? Are they really in ANY place to make demands? I'd say, only because we let them... We've been battered mentally (not to blame anyone, but I wouldn't absolutely doubt the possibility that some conscious hands were in it, but I'd say a lot of it is simple, natural process and consciousness as it would come, naturally, which can be awkward...).

Not to say a baby's cries shouldn't be heard.. Not to say I mean to say it can't be helped. But not like this (to be led by a child on a tantrum). Not like the far left is pushing it, now. When, together, have different peoples (even if we, or something 'othered' them, did doing that really begin with us, or can it be seen as like, well, "how's the weather?" - as like any other natural system) ever been in a state that was "whole, perfect", together, when we are different? Is it fair for us to expect unrealistic things? Is that any path forward? Who is leading, to where? What?

So again, realistically, I come to that we need to draw a border between us. They need a territory, and perhaps with this, some one-time "buy-off"- That might be the only thing that can be expected (not to say we can't help the "neighbor", in the right ways, if we can - hopefully if we needed help, they would, sometime in this "repaired" future, where we might "repair"), because we won't be slaves ("communism"... but we are, slaves, already?), and the alternative is War. So do we - need a territory, space, for us, to be (us). Or we need a king.
 
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Burnt Offerings

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What 23, I've read enough of your posts on here to know where you are politically-speaking, so I know that what I'm about to say won't change your mind. But racial equality is an aspirational thing...it's not something that will ever be fully realized or executed to completion in a way where everyone is completely equal, but that doesn't make it any less valuable as a goal to be worked towards.

It's especially difficult to accomplish since "race" is primarily a sociological concept in this country (as anyone who has even the faintest knowledge of physical anthropology or race history knows, with all those old books which claimed to prove "scientifically" that the Irish or Italians or whoever were really a separate racial group than the "Anglo-Saxons"). Now a group like the Irish is just considered to be "white". So that's the social science context for "race"; as far as the natural sciences go, every person on earth is the same race, a group of hominids who left Africa less than a hundred thousand years ago. The genetic make-up of any given person is incredibly similar to any other person.

So it's difficult to make progress on something defined by loose definitions like race, as well as the 400 years or so of troubled history regarding race in America. The last major civil rights violation (the "war on drugs") happened during my lifetime, and is still ongoing...my parent's generation had to go up against an apartheid state in the American South...it's an on-going process, fighting for civil rights and a more free society...it's not just a linear march of improvement, there are victories and set-backs...but I'm not one to write off any hope for progress on this issue, nor do I find it helpful to scapegoat immigrants for the purposes of furthering opportunistic right-wing narratives.
 

deficiT

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If cops have any type of processing in them that can be considered "racially oriented", pertaining to perhaps threat assessments or whatever, then this makes sense. Cops are 18 times more likely to meet their ends when dealing with black males, than an unarmed black male is to meet their ends with them. Police are basically just normally in a state of DICK, and DEMON, and that doesn't bode well for people doing things they're afraid of getting caught for. And those people just don't really deal with it well..

The single-greatest thing I think we could do is fix this stupid drug war. That is one thing that CAN BE DONE that is good for everyone, and doesn't mean "redistribution of wealth" as if most white families are not working for what they've got, that might allow wealth to redistribute itself in the way that it can be.

This brings me to another thought, this idea of "racial equality". Just how do we achieve or accomplish that? White people aren't equal to other white people. I'm not even equal to myself on my best day, right now, unless this is somehow going to be a better me/day. And I cannot expect that I be given a hand-out, just because of my skin color, or whatever, because of what someone else tells someone else - the hirer - to do. I can expect that if I am in charge of my own business, then I want to be able to choose my workers. I would want to treat them as fairly as possible, and I would not simply not hire a black person because they're a black person, in this day in age, but, who is it that is going to bring about 'racial equality'? Is it up to me to see the "need", to treat them and their identity like they're some charity case, to give a black man the position even though he's slightly less qualified than this white man here? Do we need laws to make sure that business owners, etc. do this? Hire more blacks? And if one thinks we need that - that this is a need - then this expresses a much greater problem.

With reparations, I have considered the only true/real reparations can really only begin, with separation. Because when will it end? This generation - the next? What will those consist of? Making New Hampshire less white? Certainly that's part of it. How would you like to be targeted for extinction (because what's the true end, other than dissolution of this... identity)?

I get having compassion and I get being considerate of others and their experiences: Fuck, that's how I was brought up. I was never overtly "racist" toward black people and in-fact count many among the good people in my life to be Black. On the scale of Critical Race Theorists, so-called, some of the prominent ones, I am a White Supremacist, for my certain natural preferences and orientations- That I like blond women and children better than I like black ones (natural tendency, what I want, not to say I hate the black ones), that I care first/most for those with my likeness, they give me no other choice, in their framework- In their framework I am either White Supremacist or White Betrayer, the scale between, and I choose SUPREMACIST.

It allows me to stand my ground. Otherwise, they're just trying to bring us to heel. To control us.

I have a back-bone. You, and government, will not tell me what to think. I am the fucking government!

Really- Again who and what is going to really bring about any form of equality? Fat equality? Am I going to be attacked for my dating choices now? White people are, that, too, you know. But we all discriminate. Am I no longer allowed to have my preferences? Maybe I just like this white dude better than this black dude that interviewed? Maybe I trust him more? Maybe, looking out for myself, it's better to?



That's again what I come to. What is best for ourselves? Is is really good for people who happen to be identified as "white people" now to have their countries inundated with 'others' (not of their identity, who won't vote for the same people, who will vote for people who look like them and think and believe like them), who are also looking out for what is best for themselves, their desperate, grabbing hands (all they can, all for themselves, after-all). What happens every time these immigrants pour in, is resources, from us, get diverted, to them (some of the most far left don't believe white Poles should even stay a majority in Poland, when it comes down to it - that the lives of all the browns pouring in to Europe, that may inevitably be there, too, saving them, should supersede them and their rights to life, to autonomy).

Now, do I think they're worthless people - outsiders... bad, evil, undeserving of love... no (and I don't target/blame them off the start, for any of it, really, other than perhaps being guilty of the same sin as everyone else...). But is this a loving situation? Is it promoting of love? Or does it just demand it - is it a shakedown of resources in some way? It demands from whites, but not others, the same. Asians get to share some of the burden of whites, though. Anyone that is able to blend in with whites will share that burden. It's really a sick, mentally sick, situation. White exists, as will black. Even if we can come up with a different name. Someone calling it a social construct doesn't do anything. Your house is just a construct and I doubt many of you can reproduce it better than a shack...

Again, I dance around and talk too much, but just how do you create something called "racial equality"? I hear the term so often. I am not going to be equal to the other guy. When is my race going to be looked at as a permanent charity case, to where I'll get the position, even if I'm mediocre? When will the Supermodel from Australia about to turn 18 choose me as her lover? Resources, wealth, is not distributed equally, and can never be. And some entire peoples have more wealth than others, by simply belonging to those people/ that identity. Is someone going to force 17 year old Australian Supermodel to date black guy because he's black? There's certainly the pressure to.

Edit/attempt-for-Clarity: What state of "repair" do any of us come from, anyway? To speak of a word of "reparation", what exactly is the state that we want to be repaired to? Is it even possible? Black men right now like white women more than white men like black women. There are many more things "unequal" about how things fall, between us. Was there ever a "state" where we were at all equal? Would white people have even - as if many even had a hand in it in the first place, even back then/when - gone out of their way to make their societies "more diverse", to out and find black people, others, to "make them a part of their community", or, was that itself born of a state of disrepair? And these black people, were they even a people, before they were sold by other black people to others, including Jews, Muslims, and Whites (even if a bit of a mongrel Orc breed, they're still "Whites"), and grouped as such away/separate from the ruling caste(s)? Or were they people that would fucking cut their 10 mile neighbor's head off for worshipping the wrong devil to perform some dumb blood ritual on it? They were peoples. Not really that well organized, tribal units, that warred with themselves, too, just like us. Along with us "sidetracking" them, or arresting their "development" we probably also sidetracked/arrested 100,000,000 genocides.

So again what is the state of "repair"? Was it ever a state of "repair" when we were forced to live together? Again, I come back to this: I don't mean to say they're evil or guilty or that I hate them for being different. I mean to say we're different, and we never fell from "grace", with them. And they too ransacked our shores... these 'others': round and round. So again, what is the "state of repair"? What exactly ARE reparations? Are they really in ANY place to make demands? I'd say, only because we let them... We've been battered mentally (not to blame anyone, but I wouldn't absolutely doubt the possibility that some conscious hands were in it, but I'd say a lot of it is simple, natural process and consciousness as it would come, naturally, which can be awkward...).

Not to say a baby's cries shouldn't be heard.. Not to say I mean to say it can't be helped. But not like this (to be led by a child on a tantrum). Not like the far left is pushing it, now. When, together, have different peoples (even if we 'othered' them, did doing that really begin with us, or can it be seen as like, well, "how's the weather?" - as like any other natural system) ever been in a state that was "whole, perfect", together, when we are different? Is it fair for us to expect unrealistic expectations? Is that any path forward? Who is leading, to where? What?

So again, realistically, I come to that we need to draw a border between us. They need a territory, and perhaps with this, some one-time "buy-off"- That might be the only thing that can be expected (not to say we can't help the "neighbor", in the right ways, if we can - hopefully if we needed help, they would, sometime in this "repaired" future, where we might "repair"), because we won't be slaves ("communism"... but we are, slaves, already?), and the alternative is War. So do we - need a territory, space, for us, to be (us). Or we need a king.
That's quite a roundabout way to say "I'm a White Supremacist."
 

✿Dai₷y✿

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That's quite a roundabout way to say "I'm a White Supremacist."




Do you find it easier to use personal attacks than to respond to his questions?

I read that 3 times, dont fully understand some points , what repatriation would resolve racial issues? You'd have an answer to this, wouldn't you?

Maybe there IS no amount of repatriation that can make up for past misdeeds, ever.



*shrug*
 

Xorkoth

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Roughly one sixth of the US population is African American, for whatever reason, they commit a disproportionate amount of crimes.

I am saying that the reason for this has its roots in racism and hundreds of years of oppression, a long history of factors that led to a population being the way it is today. Sure, individual black people who grew up in ghettos are more able to get out than they once were, but it's really easy to say "pull yourself up and get out of that life" if you weren't shaped by that culture. Some of the purposeful deeds against black communities happened recently, well after civil rights, in the 80s, especially, with the crack that was flooded into communities for various reasons (which I have stated earlier in this thread).

It IS a very complicated problem, and you can't look at it in the vacuum of right now. It is a systemic problem that has taken hundreds of years to establish itself. The answer is not to call all white people racist, or to go overboard, which some are doing. But the answer is also not to deny there is a racial problem.

If the problem has nothing to do with race and racial history, then what do you propose it IS because of? What are the factors that led to the fact that black people are more likely to be stopped than any other race? That they're more likely to commit crimes? If it's not because of systemic issues related to their race, then it's hard to see how one would argue that it isn't simply because of some inherent aspect of them as people, which is quite a racist way of looking at it, no?
 

birdup.snaildown

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There is a racial component to every problem.

Xorkoth said:
If the problem has nothing to do with race and racial history, then what do you propose it IS because of?

I never said it has nothing to do with race.

The way it is discussed is false and that doesn't help the cause. Black people aren't being gunned down by police. That's not what is happening. Black people are committing more crimes so they are being shot disproportionately (to white people) and it appears - falsely - as if they are being gunned down in the streets.

Xorkoth said:
If it's not because of systemic issues related to their race, then it's hard to see how one would argue that it isn't simply because of some inherent aspect of them as people, which is quite a racist way of looking at it, no?

I don't look at it that way.

There has been a dramatic cultural shift in black America over the past century. Gangster rap doesn't help and neither does the idea that people are being oppressed because of the colour of their skin. If you believe the odds are against you, it's easy to give up before you get started.

The best way to fix this problem is to stop pretending it exists.

As usual, left wing politics just makes shit worse.

If there's something we can identify that white people are "doing" to black people, that's great... but it makes no sense (to me) to just assume that is the case.

People need to stop thinking in terms of black/white, unless it happens to be relevant. If there's potentially a case of racial misconduct by the police we should investigate it.

In Australia they did a royal commission into systemic racism. The data does not support the idea that significant racism exists, but people just assume that's wrong. The commission is corrupt or something.

BLM should be PLM.

This is about money not skin colour... So, how do you solve an economic issue like this? Throwing welfare at it certainly doesn't help. Telling people they deserve something (that they aren't going to get) because of the colour of their skin doesn't help either.
 

birdup.snaildown

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Burnt Offerings said:
What 23, I've read enough of your posts on here to know where you are politically-speaking, so I know that what I'm about to say won't change your mind. But racial equality is an aspirational thing...it's not something that will ever be fully realized or executed to completion in a way where everyone is completely equal, but that doesn't make it any less valuable as a goal to be worked towards.

Equality of opportunity should just exist now. Equality of outcome is the thing that people work towards forever because it is impossible. We should just focus on opportunity.
 

Xorkoth

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In Australia they did a royal commission into systemic racism. The data does not support the idea that significant racism exists, but people just assume that's wrong. The commission is corrupt or something.

BLM should be PLM.

Australia is not America.

You're right that there is also a problem with wealth inequality that has nothing to do with race. But again, WHY is there a far higher percentage of black Americans in poverty? You said we should stop pretending the problem exists to solve it. But yet, the data says is DOES exist, for whatever reason. There is a problem. Are you saying that hundreds of years of racial oppression (which you certainly admit happened, right?) which ended very recently in history doesn't affect the current state of things?
A combination of statistics, listening to people's stories, and what I have actually seen shows me that we still have progress to make in getting rid of systemic racism, at least in America. I also think a lot of people are pushing too hard and going too far. I also think some people are attributing racial problems to more than they should be. We have many problems aside from racial problems and I believe the biggest problem we face is wealth inequality that has nothing to do with race. But it is possible to see all the shades of gray. As you say, it is complicated. It seems like willfully shutting out a lot of evidence and the experiences of others who are not you to try to just state "nope, none of the problems facing these people has anything to do with race, it's just a variety of other problems". I'm admitting to the existence of all of these problems and it seems like you're really interested in outright denying one aspect of the problems facing American society.

So what are the answers? We already have lots of institutional stuff in place to help minorities. I think monetary reparations are not a good idea as it is punitive of people who did not cause these problems and would create a lot of further resentment. I think we need to work on changing police culture and training and intelligently allocate funds to be more heavy on treatment and mental health and rehabilitation instead of punishment, and de-militarize the police. And we need to work on discriminatory attitudes in individuals and various communities, which is a much harder problem to tackle. I also think that tackling the general wealth inequality problem would lead, indirectly, to improved outcomes for everyone and better relations between all sorts of people. The growing wealth gap (not race related) and the institutional policies that have engineered this is the biggest problem we face, I think. In America anyway. But there still exist other problems of various sorts and they don't affect all groups of people equally.
 

deficiT

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Do you find it easier to use personal attacks than to respond to his questions?

I read that 3 times, dont fully understand some points , what repatriation would resolve racial issues? You'd have an answer to this, wouldn't you?

Maybe there IS no amount of repatriation that can make up for past misdeeds, ever.



*shrug*
How is it a personal attack, when they literally said as much in their post?

I could go on and on about how white privilege is real and they're just trafficking in racist trite, but would they read it?
 
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✿Dai₷y✿

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That's basically what I meant.


What recompense do you feel will solve all racial inequalities in America right now ?




I doubt any amount of anything would do anything to heal America.

It just takes generations and shifts in population demographic over that time to become as part of history as slavery was.
 

deficiT

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What recompense do you feel will solve all racial inequalities in America right now ?




I doubt any amount of anything would do anything to heal America.

It just takes generations and shifts in population demographic over that time to become as part of history as slavery was.
Criminal justice reform would be a start.
 

birdup.snaildown

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@Xorkoth

Australia is not America.

They are similar in this context. Both countries are young so they don't have a long colonial history. Their history is simple. They came and "stole" land and did horrible things. Europe is a mess of overlapping wars and falling empires. Australia is just white vs black.

wealth inequality

I don't believe you want wealth to be equal.

WHY is there a far higher percentage of black Americans in poverty? You said we should stop pretending the problem exists to solve it.

Welfare certainly doesn't help. There are more black Americans (percentage wise) now in poverty than there used to be fifty/sixty years ago.

There is a problem... Are you saying that hundreds of years of racial oppression (which you certainly admit happened, right?) which ended very recently in history doesn't affect the current state of things?

Nobody moves back to Africa.

A combination of statistics, listening to people's stories, and what I have actually seen shows me that we still have progress to make in getting rid of systemic racism, at least in America

Define it and show me it.

But it is possible to see all the shades of gray. As you say, it is complicated. It seems like willfully shutting out a lot of evidence and the experiences of others who are not you to try to just state "nope, none of the problems facing these people has anything to do with race, it's just a variety of other problems". I'm admitting to the existence of all of these problems and it seems like you're really interested in outright denying one aspect of the problems facing American society.

The system is structured around fairness. If there is systemic racism, define it. Show it to me. Anecdotes mean nothing. Not because I'm soulless. They mean nothing because we're not talking about the individual. We're talking about trends. We're talking about the big picture.

When there is a racist cop (of course they exist) we deal with that cop. Beyond that, I'm not sure what to do. That's a specific problem. That's the anecdote. The racist cop. You deal with him. But show me the systemic stuff that is complicated. In a population of over 300 million, show me the evidence of it.

I think we need to work on changing police culture and training and intelligently allocate funds to be more heavy on treatment and mental health and rehabilitation instead of punishment, and de-militarize the police.

I agree to some extent - you can't take power away from the police in the US - but this police thing isn't a racial issue. The police are a work in progress. Generally they are good people trying to do the right thing for their communities. Same as teachers. Sometimes there are bad eggs. Training can always be better.

And we need to work on discriminatory attitudes in individuals and various communities, which is a much harder problem to tackle.

Casual racism is not a systemic problem that can be solved and it shouldn't be mixed in with serious issues that require practical solutions. Not to say that it doesn't occur in that context (as it does in every context) but it doesn't help calling everything racist. We need to be able to see what is racist and what isn't.

If America is racist - not individuals in America - show me.

Specificity is important.
 
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deficiT

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They are similar in this context. Both countries are young so they don't have a long colonial history. Their history is simple. They came and "stole" land and did horrible things. Europe is a mess of overlapping wars and falling empires. Australia is just white vs black.



I don't believe you want wealth to be equal.



Welfare certainly doesn't help. There are more black Americans (percentage wise) now in poverty than there used to be fifty/sixty years ago.



Nobody moves back to Africa.



Define it and show me it.



The system is structured around fairness. If there is systemic racism, define it. Show it to me. Anecdotes mean nothing. Not because I'm soulless. They mean nothing because we're not talking about the individual. We're talking about trends. We're talking about the big picture.

When there is a racist cop (of course they exist) we deal with that cop. Beyond that, I'm not sure what to do. That's a specific problem. That's the anecdote. The racist cop. You deal with him. But show me the systemic stuff that is complicated. In a population of over 300 million, show me the evidence of it.



I agree to some extent - you can't take power away from the police in the US - but this police thing isn't a racial issue. The police are a work in progress. Generally they are good people trying to do the right thing for their communities. Same as teachers. Sometimes there are bad eggs. Training can always be better.



Casual racism is not a systemic problem that can be solved and it shouldn't be mixed in with serious issues that require practical solutions. Not to say that it doesn't occur in that context (as it does in every context) but it doesn't help calling everything racist. We need to be able to see what is racist and what isn't.

If America is racist - not individuals in America - show me.

Specificity is important.
If you can't surmise how America is racist on your own, no one's going to be able to show you anything to shift your opinion. Desegregation was not that long ago, and we still have a political system that's been redlined and gerrymandered around racial lines. You understand that the black community is still overcoming slavery and Jim Crow right? That is what people are talking about when they talk about white privilege. White families have had generation after generation to build wealth and achieve economic success. Black families have had significantly less time, and thus their communities are still trying to overcome poverty.

It's no wonder so many white people struggle to understand what racism is. You don't have to listen, you don't have to care.
 

✿Dai₷y✿

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How is it a personal attack, when they literally said as much in their post?

I could go on and on about how white privilege is real and they're just trafficking in racist trite, but would they read it?



I read his posts with an open mind. If you have succumbed to the temptation of writing him off as a racist no matter how much effort he puts in then that's on you.

That's the problem with being labelled as a racist yet not being one at all is theres nothing that can be done to repair that and he may as well not come back here, right?



A simple matter of an odd posting style different language shouldn't be that hard to handle.


His reference to being a '"white supremacist" read as a sarcastic rhetorical question, not that he actually is one.



White privilege might be real yet so is the sentiment that it's just a brush off and put down which shouldn't happen because of EQUALITY. Not everyone is American you know .


Can you address his questions without reaching for the "OMG OMG RACIST "WHITE SUPREMIST' panic button?


Probably not eh?



Anyway, glad.
 

birdup.snaildown

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People should stop separating people into white and black. BLM is an economic issue more than a pigment issue.

It's no wonder so many white people struggle to understand what racism is.

This statement seems alien to me because I do not think of people in terms of colour.

deficiT said:
White families have had generation after generation to build wealth and achieve economic success. Black families have had significantly less time, and thus their communities are still trying to overcome poverty.

The problem with white and black privilege (rather than individual privilege) is: there are a lot of poor white people that are suffering. The term "white privilege" is unnecessary and inaccurate. You are not privileged because of the colour of your skin. White people don't have equal privilege (within themselves) and black people don't have equal privilege either. This is precisely why we should treat people according to their individual circumstances rather than the colour of their skin.

Black kids from good neighbourhoods shouldn't have advantages with college entrance exams. If you take race out of it, you can still help people according to class. This is a better approach.
 
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