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Social Justice Black Lives Matter Discussion Thread

cduggles

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Your interpretation. Mine is that under Obama, despite warnings, the reserves of ventilators and such was allowed to fall. Trump, recognizing his limitations, encouraged Governors to do all they could at their level while he helped with makeshift hospitals and even providing Navy hospitals....which went unused.
Yes, those inept governors initiated restrictions to flatten the curve.
(And it was apparently quite difficult to transfer patients to the makeshift hospital.)
This is just one article and it’s not too biased:
 

TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...

Boston Public Schools Suspends Test For Advanced Learning Classes; Concerns About Program’s Racial Inequities Linger



A selective program for high-performing fourth, fifth and sixth graders in Boston has suspended enrollment due to the pandemic and concerns about equity in the program, GBH News has learned.

Superintendent Brenda Cassellius recommended the one-year hiatus for the program, known as Advanced Work Classes, saying the district would not proceed with the program for new students next year.

"There's been a lot of inequities that have been brought to the light in the pandemic that we have to address," Cassellius told GBH News. "There's a lot of work we have to do in the district to be antiracist and have policies where all of our students have a fair shot at an equitable and excellent education."

Following publication of this story, Cassellius told GBH News that equity concerns about the advance work program were not the motivation for suspension of the test this year. She said the test suspension was only a consequence of the pandemic making it impossible to administer the test.


^^Bold by me, pointing out that there was clarification that the testing was suspended basedon Covid restrictionts not race concerns.

vvvv However, you can see where race equity (and declining interest) are factors in suspending the coursework (again, bold by me):


A district analysis of the program found that more than 70 percent of students enrolled in the program were white and Asian, even though nearly 80 percent of all Boston public school students are Hispanic and Black.

School Committee member Lorna Rivera said at a January meeting that she was disturbed by the findings, noting that nearly 60 percent of fourth graders in the program at the Ohrenberger school in West Roxbury are white even though most third graders enrolled at the school are Black and Hispanic.

"This is just not acceptable," Rivera said at a recent school committee meeting. "I've never heard these statistics before, and I'm very very disturbed by them."

The program was open to all students in the Boston Public Schools who took a test known as Terra Nova in the third grade and received a high score. Those students were placed in a lottery conducted by the central administration office, and lottery winners received letters inviting them to apply to the program. Last fall, 453 students received invitations, 143 students applied and 116 enrolled this year, officials said.

Students in the program have the opportunity to study subjects in greater depth and are offered more schoolwork than the traditional curriculum requires.


The first quote notes that Covid has brought to light racial inequities? WTF? The racial makeup of these courses is irrelevant to race, and has been there before COVID, so I can't agree with that statement. I would say it's more a matter of BLM raising a spotlight to it, and not COVID. However, if the exams are performance based as indicated, that means EVERY student has an equal chance at getting invited to the program. EVERY CHILD. The second quote highlights the disparity, but it also speaks to "453 students received invitations, 143 applied and 116 enrolled". There's no indication of the makeup of those 453 invited. Can we explore that, to see if racially there are more population aligned candidates for the program? And if so, WHY blacks and Hispanics are choosing not to enroll? I'm not saying its the case, but it's a possibility that should be explored.

I expect some will say my question above dodges the base (assumed) reality., that there are 'systemic' reasons blacks and Hispanics are not enrolled, such as the testing is racially biased. I'm still not accepting this, but will acknowledge it as a talking point given how at colleges and universities we have also traditionally seen white and Asian kids excel, and be heavily represented. With this line of argument, we go back to asking what are the 'systemic' reasons for this and what to do about it. For me, taking away courses that help those advanced students is NOT the answer. Keep the accelerated programs, but try to understand why blacks and Hispanics are not being invited, or not accepting the invites and enrolling. But, do NOT punish those who quality. That only damages that generation and their potential, which effects all of us as a nation going forward.
 

TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...
Ivy League University Offers Rock Climbing Class — No White Students Allowed


Cornell University was offering a racially-segregated rock climbing class for their students physical education — but no white students allowed.​

The physical education class, “BIPOC Rock Climbing,” was originally slated to be restricted to “people who identify as Black, Indigenous, Latinx, Asian, or other people of color.”

After Campus Reform reached out the university for comment about the discrimination, the course description was edited to state that the class is “designed to enable Black, Indigenous, Latinx, Asian, or other people of color underrepresented in the sport of rock climbing to learn the sport and to feel included and supported.”

“Graduates of this course will have the knowledge and skills to push themselves to new challenges while climbing safely and responsibly. We will also talk about BIPOC individuals and groups in rock climbing,” the original description stated. “This class is for people who identify as Black, Indigenous, Latinx, Asian, or other people of color.”
So, quite literally, everyone except white students.

When reached by Campus Reform, John Carberry, Cornell’s Senior Director of Media Relations and News, claimed that “all Cornell students” are “welcome” to enroll in the course.

“All Cornell students are welcome to enroll in this course. While the original description of the course represented an intentional focus on outreach and inclusion, there was never an intent to exclude non-minority students. The description of the course has been adjusted accordingly,” Carberry said.

New York State law says that “students in New York schools are protected by federal, state, and local laws that prevent discrimination on the basis of race, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, religion, disability, and other categories.”

Campus Reform also noted that New York Human Rights Law “makes it illegal” for “non-sectarian educational institutions” to “deny their services to students on the basis of race, color, religion, disability, national origin, sexual orientation, military status, sex, age or marital status.”


Absurdity. I get the desire to create 'safe' spaces for certain groups, but I cannot abide by restrictions that are unequally applied. If there were a 'white only' course, it would be demonized, the school protested, and perhaps professors fired. I'm all for equality, but in achieving it, I expect equality and not selective application of such rules.
 

JessFR

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I think Zimmerman menaced Martin with his gun to intimidate Martin, leading Martin to attack out of fear for his life.
I’m not going to fight about it, it’s just what I think.

Well I think it's obvious what's happened here, somehow Bart Simpsons managed to sneak his bedroom into my house. :D

Edit: sorry if that came off dismissive, it's just amazing to me how people seem to invent versions of what they think happened completely unsupported by the evidence as if Zimmerman was a racist criminal mastermind.

If the evidence is consistent with Zimmerman version of what happened, I don't think it's a leap to suggest it's because.. Maybe he was just telling the truth?
But that's not what people wanna believe, so they invent scenarios that are a lot more complicated but allow Zimmerman to be to blame yet somehow make the evidence seem as if he was defending himself.

I know it's exceedingly rare, but every now and then.. Young men attack people. Even rarer still occasionally some of them are black. It is possible Trayvon Martin just picked a fight with someone he assumed was unarmed, and lost that bet.
 
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Xorkoth

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Would you care to discuss why you disagree?



This, in particular.

I did, that was the point of my posts. But to your specific question, I'm saying that the root of the cultural problems you allude to (there being more black people getting in altercations with cops for example, or the current culture of violent ghettos run by gangs) are due to baked-in racism that had its roots in slavery and which continued full stop for 100 years after slavery officially ended (Jim Crow era), and which have not magically disappeared with civil rights in the 20th century. Violent ghettos were a created problem, we now know because of the freedom of Information act, that the CIA purposely flooded black neighborhoods with crack in the 80s, in order to fill up for-profit prisons, and to lower the property values. Then developers bought up these properties for dirt cheap and gentrified them, and that was, in fact, the purpose behind doing it. Read about it, it's not conspiracy, it's real. Because of that, and other policy decisions, we have a disproportionate population of black people participating in violent crime, because it is extremely difficult to survive in that environment 9which was, again, purposely created) without becoming part of the problem. The anger and hatred that black people feel towards white people and cops was created by hundreds of years of oppression which continued (with the example I gave and others) even decades after civil rights. This sent a message that no matter what they did, nothing would change. And we heard about cops being at war with black people back in the 80s, 90s, and it's kept going on. We heard it in 90s hip hop, which gave a voice to a generation. And to this day I still hear black people all over the place with stories about how they were treated in their "projects" (the ghetto neighborhoods). I went to a DUI alcohol treatment class a couple of years ago and one of the guys there I made friends with, his stories were really revealing and shocking to me. In the 10 weeks we did the class, he had a friend and an uncle get shot and killed by the police. I consider it arrogance and dismissiveness of the highest degree for me, who hasn't lived through the experience of anyone else, to say "well I looked at some statistics, and I certainly haven't seen anything, therefore you're just complaining and need to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps", or "you must be imagining it".

Ultimately, more than anything else, it's the experiences of people I have talked to or heard speaking, many people, who unequivocally explain how racism continues to have a dramatic impact on their lives. How can I refute their experiences? That would be arrogant of me.
 

TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...
If true that's indeed pretty insane

Compliance with Testing & Flu Vaccine Requirements <<< Cornell website


Compliance with Testing & Flu Vaccine Requirements​

Cornell's Behavioral Compact for the 2020-2021 academic year outlines several important steps that students must take as they return to Ithaca. In addition to requiring the wearing of masks and engagement in physical distancing, the Compact requires students to participate in ongoing surveillance testing for COVID-19 and to be vaccinated against seasonal influenza. Collectively, these measures are critical for reducing viral infections within our community and also protecting the most vulnerable among us (e.g., older individuals and people with pre-existing health conditions). Access to COVID-19 testing and flu vaccine is made available for all students by systems put in place at the beginning of the school year.

A history of mistreatment & lack of access to appropriate care​

We recognize that, due to longstanding systemic racism and health inequities in this country, individuals from some marginalized communities may have concerns about needing to agree to such requirements. For example, historically, the bodies the of Black, Indigenous, and other People of Color (BIPOC) have been mistreated, and used by people in power, sometimes for profit or medical gain. We know this history and validate the potential concerns it may raise. At the same time, we know that long-standing social inequalities and health disparities have resulted in COVID-19 disproportionately affecting BIPOC individuals. Higher percentages of individuals from these communities become infected with COVID, and the health outcomes related to infection are often more serious. Away from campus community, BIPOC individuals are not as likely to have access to preventive services or quality health care. The systems, services, and policies being implemented at Cornell seek to address these inequalities as well as the differential impacts.

The importance of this moment and compliance with health requirements​

The aforementioned inequities and injustices may lead some individuals to have reservations about testing and immunization, yet it is also important to acknowledge the critical role these measures play in protecting community health and well-being. In fact, they are likely to be especially helpful for BIPOC communities. For example, annual influenza vaccination is recommended for every individual 6 months or older who does not have medical contraindications, as it is the best way to help protect against flu. The vaccine has been shown to reduce the risk of flu illnesses, hospitalizations, and flu-related deaths. Those who get the vaccine not only protect themselves, but also the people around them who may be more vulnerable to serious flu illness, including infants, older adults, and those with underlying health conditions. They are designed to help students stay safe, and they are part of the quality health care students can access while on campus.

Support along the way​

Cornell Health is offering continued flu vaccination clinics. While Cornell Health is not directly conducting the COVID-19 arrival testing and surveillance testing at Cornell, our staff members work closely with the groups and departments who are. We can be a resource to any Cornell student who needs more information about either program. Please contact [email protected].


You decide.
 

TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...

Top Biden Adviser Says Administration To ‘Start Acting Now’ On Reparations



A senior adviser to President Joe Biden says the administration is “going to start acting now” on reparations to African Americans, saying there’s no time to wait for a commission to study the issue.

Congress is currently debating forming a commission to study how reparations could be implemented, but White House senior adviser Cedric Richmond told “Axios on HBO” in an interview set to air Monday that the issue shouldn’t wait for Congress.

“We don’t want to wait on a study. We’re going to start acting now,”
he told the outlet. “We have to start breaking down systemic racism and barriers that have held people of color back and especially African Americans. We have to do stuff now.”

“Richmond said that while the timeline for the commission isn’t knowable, ‘if you start talking about free college tuition to [Historically Black Colleges and Universities] and you start talking about free community college in Title I and all of those things, I think that you are well on your way,'” Axios reported.

Last month, the White House said Biden is open to considering racial reparations depending on the actions of Congress, promising that the president is committed to taking “comprehensive action to address the systemic racism that persists today.”

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki made the remarks during an exchange with a reporter who brought up that Biden said during his campaign that he supported a study for reparations. “Does the president support the legislation?” the reporter asked. “He stopped short of saying that during the campaign. Would he sign that if it came to his desk?”

“Well, he’s supported a study of reparations, which is I believe is what’s being discussed, and studying the continuing impacts of slavery, which is being discussed in this hearing on H.R. 40, I believe it is,” Psaki said. “And he continues to demonstrate his commitment to take comprehensive action to address the systemic racism that persists today. Obviously, that is — having that study is a part of that, but he has signed an executive order on his first day, which would begin to deliver on his commitment to having an across-government approach to addressing racial inequality and making sure equity is a part of his entire policy agenda.”

Reparations were first introduced by the late Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) in 1989, and has been reintroduced repeatedly in years since by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX).

But former President Barack Obama never pushed the issue, and last month told rocker Bruce Springsteen in a podcast that he would have liked to pursue reparations for slavery as part of his presidential agenda, but that the “politics of white resistance” made the issue a “non-starter.”

“Obama said he believes reparations are ‘justified’ and that ‘there’s not much question that the wealth… the power of this country was built in significant part — not exclusively, maybe not even the majority of it, but a large portion of it — was built on the backs of slaves,’” Fox News reported.


Psaki defends a committee and a study without commitment.
Biden's advisor says not to wait for Congress.
Obama says he couldn't do it in his EIGHT YEARS due to white resistance.


Ok then.
 

Burnt Offerings

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Seems pretty reasonable...they mention the mistrust that some groups may have towards vaccines in general, but encourage them to get the (flu) vaccine anyway, in accordance with the school's policy. I don't see anything along the lines of, "whitey needs to get vaccinated but everyone else doesn't".

Also, the article about the people-of-color rock climbing thing...the content of the article itself refutes the article's title! There isn't anything in that article that says anything remotely like "no white students allowed" in the description of this particular social group. Honestly a lot of this kind of stuff reminds me of the whole "there's a black student union, why isn't there a white student union?"-kind of thing

And finally, lol at Obama saying that he planned on doing reparations during his presidency. Obviously he hopes that no one actually remembers his presidency at this point, because anyone who actually lived through the 2008-2016 period will remember that there wasn't even a whiff of that during his presidency. He is right that reparations would've really whipped up all the people who thought that Obama was the bastard love child of Franz Fanon and Osama bin Laden, and that all the whites would soon be expected to report for duty in the cotton fields or something (some people could never make up their mind whether Obama was a radical atheistic communist, or a covert Muslim fundamentalist)
 

tubgirl.jpg

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It doesn't really mention it in that article, but the incident that kicked off that attack was a videotape of a young girl getting assaulted in a prison cell by one of those hair-trigger goons who occupy many positions in law enforcement and corrections. It's an issue that has been simmering in this country for a long time, only to explode in Summer 2020

Fascist, ultranationalist and/or reactionary movements always find early support among military and state security services. It's part of that whole martial spirit and "respect my authoritah!" attitude that such ideologies fetishize. It's not even a necessarily a bad thing, as there is definitely room in this society for the warrior ethos and/or people who are willing to fight for justice. But it's been taken waaaay to far, people have leaned way too heavily into this mindset of the police being an occupying army and the citizens being potential insurgents. That's incredibly destructive for any kind of republic that supposedly grants rights to its citizens. I'm glad that things popped off in this country over the issue of police misconduct...anyone who views the excesses of the movement (burning, looting etc) and the danger of ochlarchy as being greater than the danger of condensed power in the form of a militarized state security service with practically unlimited control over the lives of everyday citizens...they need to get their head on straight and see the direction that this country and this world is headed in. The danger of a closed-ranks, militarized police service at the head of sophisticated system of surveillance and repression is a far greater threat to your rights and freedoms than a bunch of looters or people who want to police your pronouns or "defund the police"

.. SALUTE the dude who shot the officer Tim
 

TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...
Also, the article about the people-of-color rock climbing thing...the content of the article itself refutes the article's title! There isn't anything in that article that says anything remotely like "no white students allowed" in the description of this particular social group. Honestly a lot of this kind of stuff reminds me of the whole "there's a black student union, why isn't there a white student union?"-kind of thing

I bolded that part - “This class is for people who identify as Black, Indigenous, Latinx, Asian, or other people of color.”

But I agree, it is the 'where is my white student union' type claim.

Checking the source on the last three links I provided will show heavy right leans politically, so the bias should be expected in the writing.
 

tubgirl.jpg

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There are no compelling statistics in terms of cops shooting black people in the US

Reality paints a much different picture though. But I don't live in the US; all I know is what I've read and seen online.
And finding a bodycam/phone that captures cops killing black people is easy.
But where all the whites at being choked to death? The white 14-year girls getting punched and trashed around?

The question with black people is: why are there a disproportionate amount of encounters with black male citizens within a certain age bracket?

Hum, systematic profiling and racosm?

Black people are not shot more, per encounter. That is false.

Okey, please show me these statistics you talk about, because that sounds like a straight out like.

It is very unusual for police to fatally shoot innocent unarmed people who are doing nothing wrong. It happens (very occasionally) because we are talking about one third of a billion people... most of whom have guns.

It's easier to just point at the police and say they are to blame. The problem is complex. It is cultural, not racial. The solution is not obvious.
Well, they're the ones being the brutes?

It's very complex, and I would definately say it's both cultural and racial.

No solution is easy, but getting these sadistic pigs off yer streets would help..
 

birdup.snaildown

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[pulverstaden said:
Reality paints a much different picture though. But I don't live in the US; all I know is what I've read and seen online. And finding a bodycam/phone that captures cops killing black people is easy. But where all the whites at being choked to death? The white 14-year girls getting punched and trashed around?

Statistics are statistics. Anecdotes are anecdotes. Media is biased.

Hum, systematic profiling and racosm?

Statistics?

Let's not just makes assumptions here.

Maybe black people have more encounters with the police because they are more likely to commit crime. Then there is the question of why (do they commit more crime). This is a valid question; it is the question.

Okey, please show me these statistics you talk about, because that sounds like a straight out like.

"Risk is highest for black men, who (at current levels of risk) face about a 1 in 1,000 chance of being killed by police over the life course. The average lifetime odds of being killed by police are about 1 in 2,000 for men and about 1 in 33,000 for women."

-PNAS

"Victims were majority white (52% ) but disproportionately black (32% ) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83% ) however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8% ) than white (9.4% )"

It's complicated. Unarmed black men are more likely to be shot, but not by total encounter. The argument here is that black people are stopped more, not shot more.



It all comes down to why black people are stopped more on the streets and yet the killings occur less often - than with black or Asian people - happen to result in fatalities.

Well, they're the ones being the brutes?

It's very complex, and I would definately say it's both cultural and racial.

No solution is easy, but getting these sadistic pigs off yer streets would help..

There are brutes on either side of the equation. It is complex. As for cultural or racist, they (racism/culture) are often viewed as the same thing. The colour of skin has nothing to do with many so-called racist problems. They are not genetic problems. They are cultural problems. BLM is part of the problem.

Calling our police officers brutes and racist/sadistic pigs is childish and disrespectful to the men and women that risk their lives every day to protect you.

EDIT: formatting. etc is imperfect; I am hungover
 
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birdup.snaildown

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lethal force rate against the entire population (in 2015 of 321,418,820) the rate is found to be 0.00000343477%

Happy to examine these stats. I didn't double check them.

Let's assume that 1% of the US population encounters lethal force from the police in the united states.

I don't have the data off-hand for 2015, so we'll compare '15 to '17.
Again, I'm happy to examine these stats.
I've done this before.

457 white people were fatally shot by police in 2017. This number remains relatively consistent throughout the following 4 years. This - again - appears to be consistent.

232 (roughly half) black fatalities occurred at the hands of the police.

Again, we're comparing 200 black deaths to 400 white deaths... but there are obviously more white people than black people.

So you could assume racism, when adjusting for population.

Roughly one sixth of the US population is African American, for whatever reason, they commit a disproportionate amount of crimes.

Let's look at homicide. Black males (within a particular age bracket) commit over 60% of the homicides in the United States. This is more than a 10-fold increase according to their population.

If roughly half of the police killings happen to be black offenders, this makes sense doesn't?

The question remains why is there so much violence in African American communities. Perhaps it is the white man's fault. I blame welfare.
 
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birdup.snaildown

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Another thing to consider: the gender parallel.

Men commit more violent crimes and they are punished accordingly.

Nobody is sensibly suggesting a sexist conspiracy within police departments.

Do white men get shot more than white women because of sexist cops?

Think about it.
 
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