Big problem with Pramipexole

Ovideo_1978

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I had treatment with Pramipexole for depression, but it did oposite than normal.
Also anxiety very intense, increased apetite, sex is going complet down, also more bad than before, black thinking !
I took from 0,18 mg/day and after one week i took more until 1,8 mg/day, when the dose was biger, so the effects were more bad.
I took 2 months.

After 2 months when I stoped, after 3 pause days so a little joy for play games appeared.

Why was so ? I did a mistake ? I must take littler than 0,09-0,18 mg ?! Or ?
 
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Ovideo_1978

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Your answer helps not. I need a explanation and eventualy any ideea to solve the problem.
Everyone knows that prami is not officialy for depression, also..., this I knew too.

More of bulelight users took prami for motivation and worked !
It works on dopamine ! Is is no officialy for depression, but offlabel can be.
My doctor gave me it.

And why to one works, to me not (fuck, why me !!!) ?! The mechanism I want to undestrand, why my dopamine was lower with it, and no upper, or to same level like before !
What did it to my dopamine receptors ?!
It could be agonist to my autoreceptors ?! When this is happened, is normal that was bad..

Ai think...something that antagonize autoreceptors and pramipexole to stimulate others dopamine receptor.
Any ideea ?!
 

sekio

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More of bulelight users took prami for motivation and worked !
to be perfectly frank, I think most bluelight users could take a placebo for motivation and have it work.

It works on dopamine !
correction: it works on some dopamine receptors. (so do many many other drugs, but we don't go giving depressed people apomorphine or bromocriptine or cabergoline...) pramipexole is a very strong agonist of the D2s autoreceptor among other things so it's not surprising it could have paradoxical effects.

if you are seeking amphetamine type effects then playing with D2/D3 receptor agonists is wasting your time, the receptor responsible for the stereotypical "stimulant" effects is the D1 receptor, and unfortunately there are no selective agonist drugs available for that particular receptor (probably because of abuse potential). The closest you will get is something like apomorphine, except that has a tendency to cause vomiting, so much so it is used as an emetagogue to make animals throw up toxins they may have ingested.
 

Ovideo_1978

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An then, why to some ppl worked on depression and gave energy, motivation, sex ?!
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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I think we can agree that there is more than D1 activity going on in the effects of amphetamine. Most classes of recreational drugs increase mu opioid transmission, for instance. Also, since amp is so structurally similar to endogenous sympathomimetics, it in essence adds to the pool of dopamine overall in the brain.

If there isn't dopaminergic activity in the limbic system (specifically in the nucleus accumbens), then there wouldn't be much euphoria. For example, straterra increases dopaminergic activity in the cortical region (the prefrontal cortex mainly), but likely not in the primitive limbic system, which I surmise is true because it can't function directly as a euphoriant. But feeling sharper and being medicated for ADHD secondarily could reduce depression.

So you have D2-like dopamine receptors in the limbic system and D1-like receptors in the cortical system.

I'd hazard a guess that modafinil mostly acts to increase dopaminergic activity in the frontal lobe, and lesser in the limbic regions. It may be superior to amphetamine in having less abuse potential. It was even almost made an ADHD med but the Stevens-Johnsons syndrome or whatever it's called was observed in a few people. Sounds like a huge incentive for some pharma corporations to not have it approved for ADHD.

I don't know exactly how it tends to get transported into the dopaminergic tracts after passing through the BBB, though.
 

Ovideo_1978

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The problem is that i don`t want have euphoria, i want to have only the normal effect from a normal dopamine transmission.
Also my dopamine is lower than normal, i want to have sex drive, energy, motivation, pleasure when i do things (When I play a game), nor more.
Also for that where must have prami effect ?! In Limbic or in cortical system (also not for euphoria) ?!

And to many ppl why it works ?!

Modafinil I took 50-100 mg but I feel nothing from it.
Strattera I took to 40 mg, it makes me fell worse
Methilphenidate too.

A dopamine reuptake inhibitor can help ?!
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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Well this medication is likely very selective for the nigrostriatal dopaminergic tract, as it is applied to those with parkinson's.

Normal? Well, suffice to say that doesn't exist. We're also far from the point of explaining in pure natural science how medications treat mental illness. We just have general markers of sorts.

Dopaminergics aren't effective antidepressants. Dopamine is the fleeting sense of novelty. Serotonin is much more associated with a euthymic mood.

As implied, there is no way to tell if your dopamine is "low", other than in very clear cases such as parkainson's. But when it comes to mood, dopaminergics may elevate it, but eventually it will have no effect on mood so the dose has to be perpetually raised, at which point, during each dose raise, the chance for negative side effects increases, even if the mood lift doesn't or is small.

Self-medication isn't healthy. What does your provider say? I found an SSRI to work very well for my mood. Pramipexole doesn't apply here, unless you have a given neurodegnerative disorder.

What are you trying to accomplish here? Treatment for ADHD? Depression?

Stimulants aren't supposed to function as mood-enhancers, again. They're to help focus and provide energy.

Strettera is meant to be taken constantly for the effect to build and maintain itself throughout the day and night.

Has your doctor ever tried bupropion?
 

sekio

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If methylphenidate or modafinil don't make you feel better, your problem is not dopamine-related... methylphenidate is a strong dopamine reuptake inhibitor, modafinil is of moderate potency too.
 

CFC

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Eeek prami in any form is rather unpleasant from my experience.

I also find the focus on dopamine a bit unusual OP. Most people go the serotonergic (even NE) route when trying to treat depression. Which other antidepressants have you tried?
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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EMSAM and Parnate, though they mandate a diet, are the other dopaminergic antidepressants I can think of.

2-3 cups of coffee per day is normal and generally healthy.

That said, you didn't take much modafinil. Since it's much safer than classic stimulants, people get put on 400mg more so. They make 200mg tabs of it.

Also: how much methylphenidate did you take? Still, chasing a stimulant high can wreck your life pretty quick.
 

Ovideo_1978

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My doc gave me prami and others, i didn`t take any medicine from my self because i am not a doctor.

I took 100 mg Modafinil, no effect. 200-400 cand have a better effect !
I took 18 mg Methilphenidate, in 2012 had some effect, sex drive up, a mild euphoria, also i had dopamine deficit too, but the next day I was feeling worse than before methilphenidate.
Then pause a long time, I took now and no effect, is strange.

I have depression from a long time, I tried bubpropion too, in 2012 some effect, now NOT.
I tried the classic Antidepressants and nothing, because that my doc tryed no offcial meds but which can work on depression, to some ppl works !

I tryed Buprenorphine or Oxycontin (not both) in low doses, also 0,25-0,5 mg Bupe or 2,5-5 mg oxy.
Bupe lifted my mood BUT after 20 hours I felt worser than before.
Oxy lifted my mood a few hours, then BUM, very low next day.
Is very clear that i have endorphine deficit too.
To some works bupe well with 1 mg/day from 8 years, ppl who tryed all antidepressant and didn`t work.
To me not, and after a period of time, the effect was shorter and net day I felt more worse !!!

After another period my anxiety was very high when I took bupe or oxy. WHY ?! To begin bupe or oxy made my anxiety low. Hmmm....
This doses are not very low ?!
I had withdrawal after stopping bupe ?! From a so low dose ?!
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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Modafinil is much easier on the brain than amphetamine, and methylphenidate at a reasonably low dose might even be neuroprotective.

Buprenorphine is meant to be taken once per day/twice per day. If taken in that manner it may have real utility in treating depression.

Ultimately to gain the benefit of antidepressant medication, it should be taken daily.

segeligine and tranylcypromine are not "dopaminergic antidepressants" they are MAOIs... increasing level of *all* monoamines not just dopamine
Semantics ;)

EMSAM at 6 mg requires no diet and isn't significantly serotonergic.

In other other news, those two are more selective than MAO-B than MAO-A. So sympathomimetics (trace amines and catecholamines) break down much slower with an MAO-B inhibitor.
 

CFC

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OP, you might find this website useful for some thoughtful and detailed reading and discussion about various pharmacological treatments for depression. It largely focuses on the older generally more effective MAOI class, but does talk about others as well.
 

Ovideo_1978

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sekio ! I don`t want drugs, i don`t want be euphoric, I want be only normal so like 15-20 years when I was okey, not more.

The problem is another, I didn`t take treatment to time, I didn`t go to doctor because I didn`t know what I had (16 years old was I also in 1994), also my brain became bad, with the time my chemistry was worse, and now NO medicine has the normal effect !!!
For example, when before I took a diazepam and had I normal effect, now i have only a very bad feeling like a head ashe, al general disconfort and no more.
Because that...methilphenidate has effect in 2012 and now not, gives the same general disconfort and no more.
Cacao and coca cola same ! Before it had normal effect like by others, now...same bad general disconfort (VERY STRANGE).

Also my brain is damaged, si it is happening when a ppl has depression and stays untreated very long time ?!
Can the chemistry get ireversible demaged ?!

Also I don`t know what can I do. I think to suicide but I don`t want do this.
I have fear that the suicide meds don`t have effect (Pentobarbital or Phenobarbital) !!!!!!! Also like to others !
I don`t have a life ! No joy, no energy, no mood.
I took one day 200 mg Phenobarbital and NOTHING happened ! I made only a test.
I can`t live but I can`t die too ?! What is this ?

Suboxone and Oxycontin did some effect but not like to others.
I can`t take now because (how i said) after 2-3 hours aproximatively good feeling, next day was very worse, a very very dark disconfort.
To others is not so !
And by others, exists no withdrawal to so very low doses, subo 0,25 mg and oxy 5 mg.
When I take for example more oxy (a full agonist), i have NO euphoria, is nothing happening.

I took all medicine which i tried daily a month, not one day. So told my doc. This is normal, not one day, then..not...

Or when a mecidine give me not the bad disconfort, they do nothing good.
 

sekio

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If you are willing to try opiates, methylphenidate, pramipexole, phenobarbital, diazepam, etc, and are contemplating suicide, why not psychedelics of some sort? Especially in a therapeutic setting or in the company of someone who is well-versed in psychedelic shamanism, LSD and other psychedelics are very physically safe and can be catalysts of mental change in a good way. Plus they are not drugs you need to take regularly. What do you have to lose?

It sounds to me that you need to look objectively at your lifestyle, there is obviously something that does not work of you whether it is a lack of novelty, a daily routine that you don't enjoy, some sort of stressor in your life (money problems, poor relationships, worries for the future), etc.

I took one day 200 mg Phenobarbital and NOTHING happened ! I made only a test.
Phenobarbital is sort of an atypical barbiturate, it is more of an anti-seizure medication than a sedative.
 
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