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Bupe Best Way to Use Suboxone/Subutex to Detox

Tommyboy

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
14,421
Location
NY
Scenario: You have been using opiates for an extended period of time, and have become physically dependent on them. You have access to a few Suboxone or Subutex, and you wish to use it to detox off of the current opiates you are using.

This is a common scenario for many a bluelighter, so I think we should discuss various ways that we have used bupe to detox, and discuss which ways may have worked better than others. Here are some different ways I have either personally used, or read about.

Single High Dose: 24-36 hours after my last opiate dose, I took 8mg of Suboxone. That was the only dose that I took, and I experienced almost no withdrawal, other than 1 night of getting a little less sleep due to RLS, but that was it. This was after a 3 month heroin binge, so my tolerance was moderate. I have yet to see anybody mention this method, which is why I listed it first. My theory on why it works well is that the high dose with a long half-life allows the single dose to slowly leave your system, and since it's a single dose it avoids any of the peaks and troughs that come with multiple dosing.

Start Low End High: Instead of tapering down, the user took 4mg for several days, and then on the last two days took 8mgs. They reported little to no withdrawals.

Classic Quick Taper: Using a single 8mg pill over 4 or 5 days, dosig 4-2-1-1, or splitting the last 1mg into two days of 0.5mg, or skipping a day between the last two doses. Either way, this seems to be your classic short taper done in some hospital detox units. I have done it but it isn't painless, although it's a more mild but drawn out withdrawal.

Just Enough to Get By: I have seen a lot of people say to just take the littlest crumb of suboxone needed to keep the withdrawals away, and do that a few times until you feel good enough to quit.

I don't want to get into the 30 day or 6 month taper territory, because my vision of this thread is for people that want to detox relatively quickly, and also for those that only have access to a few suboxone, and can't afford going to a doctor or clinic for a longer taper. Also, I think that longer tapers are only good for people that have tried these short detoxes several times, and have not had any success with them.

I have personally used the first 3 methods listed, and oddly enough I have found that the higher dose (either a single time or at the end) worked just as good or better than the quick taper.
 

Benzo baron

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
1
From experience could someone help w/ some suggestions as what worked best for them
So I’ve been on/off opiates about 8 yrs. starting with hydro, to oxy/fentnalyl/dilaudid then dope IV.

Been on sub. Maintenance for 3 yrs. Usually 8mg/day/every day. Last fri. I took my last dose (4mg) & it’s been nothing since. It’s day 7 & I know jumping off >1mg over a slow taper the process would be much less intense drawn out & I am fully of what to expect so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Anyway I still feel pretty shitty & tom will be getting 10 or so 8mg strips, now after reading all the great info. On tapering. My questions is a schedule to possibly follow over the course of say nearly 2 months. I have been taking high doses of this for years & have to work so I would like to drop down to at least .5/day before I jump off. Also, if anyone can briefly explain how I can take an 8mg strip down to >1mg or send me a link ?
After the 4th day I was finally able to get out & do stuff & smoked weed (not a usual thing for me) but it helped tremendously ( w/ the Xanax ) of course since I take them daily as well. Unfortunately I can’t smoke at work, clouds my thinking too much & I need to be clear headed

Would it help to grab some tramadol for the 1st few days of jumping off ? I wish I could find clonidine for bp but that’s unlikely, or would it be better to grab 15 or so norcos instead ?
 

Cloudy

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Joined
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Messages
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In house of a smoke
I usually do a fast taper upwards till I become comfertable on the suboxone (usually around 8mgs), then after a day or two after mainting a similar height of doses I start to taper downward to the minimum I need to maintain myself. Then once I'm maintained which can take only a few days, I start to decrease even more holding myself with minimum WD symptoms, then jump off. Usually this takes a little over a week. Basically similar to part two of what tommy said. A lot of thet time after I get off the subs I'll take tramadol at the bare minimum or gabapentin (better than tramadol imo as there is less of a chance of having to deal with annoying WD from gabapentin then tramadol [snri and opioid wd]). Lope is also good in the mix with gabapentin after you get off the subs. Usually when I maintain for a little bit on the subs and then jump off, I can last 3-4 days with out feeling like shit then can hop onto whatever helpful drugs to get through the next week so I only have to deal with small WD symptoms for the next week or so
 

jones-in_J

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
1,544
Location
Baltimore. Spending my rent money on filipino hook
Scenario: You have been using opiates for an extended period of time, and have become physically dependent on them. You have access to a few Suboxone or Subutex, and you wish to use it to detox off of the current opiates you are using.

This is a common scenario for many a bluelighter, so I think we should discuss various ways that we have used bupe to detox, and discuss which ways may have worked better than others. Here are some different ways I have either personally used, or read about.

Single High Dose: 24-36 hours after my last opiate dose, I took 8mg of Suboxone. That was the only dose that I took, and I experienced almost no withdrawal, other than 1 night of getting a little less sleep due to RLS, but that was it. This was after a 3 month heroin binge, so my tolerance was moderate. I have yet to see anybody mention this method, which is why I listed it first. My theory on why it works well is that the high dose with a long half-life allows the single dose to slowly leave your system, and since it's a single dose it avoids any of the peaks and troughs that come with multiple dosing.

Start Low End High: Instead of tapering down, the user took 4mg for several days, and then on the last two days took 8mgs. They reported little to no withdrawals.

Classic Quick Taper: Using a single 8mg pill over 4 or 5 days, dosig 4-2-1-1, or splitting the last 1mg into two days of 0.5mg, or skipping a day between the last two doses. Either way, this seems to be your classic short taper done in some hospital detox units. I have done it but it isn't painless, although it's a more mild but drawn out withdrawal.

Just Enough to Get By: I have seen a lot of people say to just take the littlest crumb of suboxone needed to keep the withdrawals away, and do that a few times until you feel good enough to quit.

I don't want to get into the 30 day or 6 month taper territory, because my vision of this thread is for people that want to detox relatively quickly, and also for those that only have access to a few suboxone, and can't afford going to a doctor or clinic for a longer taper. Also, I think that longer tapers are only good for people that have tried these short detoxes several times, and have not had any success with them.

I have personally used the first 3 methods listed, and oddly enough I have found that the higher dose (either a single time or at the end) worked just as good or better than the quick taper.
i for a couple amd then

I would like more info on this... it seems like youre saying tapering down is actually the worst way to do it!? Im coming off of raw heroin and am on my second day now... i took 16 mg of suboxone yesterday and planned on taking 8 the next 2 or 3 days.... then 4 for a couple days... then 2
For a couple and then 1....

It seems hard to believe that any other way would be more effective but like i said this is my secojd day and i just took 16 mg yesterday- havent yet taken my dose today though i planned on taking 8mg. If anyone could give me any advice id appreciate it
 

Keif' Richards

Moderator: BDD, OD
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
5,155
Location
Lowell, Massachusetts
Hey man, there's a lot of conflicting opinions about bupe detox, as I'm sure you are aware. My own personal strategy, that has worked for me in the past, is to use as little as possible. You mentioned that you don't want to get dragged into a long 6 month detox process. With this in mind, limit the risk of becoming dependent on the bupe by using as little as possible, for as short a time as possible. I've found that the amount of bupe needed to really not feel sick is not that much. This is beneficial for many reasons, mostly for cost and supply reason.

So in conclusion here, my advice is to start low, stay low, and end low. But hey, if you've got the subs, there's no reason to go through a hellish detox. Just try to make yourself as comfortable as possible without being a total pussy about it ;)
 

jones-in_J

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
1,544
Location
Baltimore. Spending my rent money on filipino hook
I think im gonna take one more today (8 mg)... i have 6 of the strips left total and can pretty easily get more but tonight i have to work and dont wanna be hit by the lack of energy so fuck it

Would anyone be interested in me posting daily/semi-regular updates on dosage/symptoms tapering down when i get to lower doses that i can post either here or in a new thread?
 

Cane2theLeft

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
12,701
^ that'd really be more appropriate for your blog or even a trip report. It's good to have access but when people start doing that a lot, it start to overtake a lot of threads and discourages people from reading through them.

Great thread idea, tommy!

I'm not sure where it is in the approval process, but I was reading a couple years ago about an implantable buprenorphine delivery system that very gradually tapered the user over a few months and think this is ingenious. So often I see people who want to quit their DOC start using bupe and want to pop it 6 times a day, snort/shoot it, etc. because they aren't ready to give up using drugs so instead of trying to use it to get clean, they tell themselves they are using it to detox while still engaging in the same or similar behaviors they did while actively using their DOC which makes it very hard psychologically to stop using altogether. They can distance themselves completely from the drug-using world and lifestyle this way without having to suffer through detox, withdrawals and it really helps mitigate PAWS as well.

I haven't heard of anyone using just a single larger dose after a relatively short stint using and your first suggestion really reminded me of the bupe implant in theory but for a habit that was shorter in duration. I'd really love to hear about more people's experience because this sounds like it could be promising for many of the same reasons the implant is being investigated - get people away from constantly thinking drugs and popping pills/snorting/shooting while simultaneously mitigating the misery they experience physically.
 

Tommyboy

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
14,421
Location
NY
^ I actually just took 8mg two days ago after a very short stint, so that's what reminded me of this thread idea, since I've thought about it before since I've used the single high dose method several times before.

I think part of my reasoning is the same as the idea behind that implant. I just want to take that single dose, then forget about drugs for a while. With tapering there is the temptation of dragging it out, or taking a higher dose when you should be lowering the dose.

For longer and/or higher dosed binges I would probably go with dosing more than one day, but I don't know if I would taper down, or take a few moderate doses and then the highest dose on the last day. Hopefully I never have to find out. :)
 

jiveturkey11

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
18
Scenario: You have been using opiates for an extended period of time, and have become physically dependent on them. You have access to a few Suboxone or Subutex, and you wish to use it to detox off of the current opiates you are using.

This is a common scenario for many a bluelighter, so I think we should discuss various ways that we have used bupe to detox, and discuss which ways may have worked better than others. Here are some different ways I have either personally used, or read about.

Single High Dose: 24-36 hours after my last opiate dose, I took 8mg of Suboxone. That was the only dose that I took, and I experienced almost no withdrawal, other than 1 night of getting a little less sleep due to RLS, but that was it. This was after a 3 month heroin binge, so my tolerance was moderate. I have yet to see anybody mention this method, which is why I listed it first. My theory on why it works well is that the high dose with a long half-life allows the single dose to slowly leave your system, and since it's a single dose it avoids any of the peaks and troughs that come with multiple dosing.

Start Low End High: Instead of tapering down, the user took 4mg for several days, and then on the last two days took 8mgs. They reported little to no withdrawals.

Classic Quick Taper: Using a single 8mg pill over 4 or 5 days, dosig 4-2-1-1, or splitting the last 1mg into two days of 0.5mg, or skipping a day between the last two doses. Either way, this seems to be your classic short taper done in some hospital detox units. I have done it but it isn't painless, although it's a more mild but drawn out withdrawal.

Just Enough to Get By: I have seen a lot of people say to just take the littlest crumb of suboxone needed to keep the withdrawals away, and do that a few times until you feel good enough to quit.

I don't want to get into the 30 day or 6 month taper territory, because my vision of this thread is for people that want to detox relatively quickly, and also for those that only have access to a few suboxone, and can't afford going to a doctor or clinic for a longer taper. Also, I think that longer tapers are only good for people that have tried these short detoxes several times, and have not had any success with them.

I have personally used the first 3 methods listed, and oddly enough I have found that the higher dose (either a single time or at the end) worked just as good or better than the quick taper.
do you think the single high dose would work well for a mod habit (150-250mg oxy/day)? i know pretty much nil about H, so can't make the comparison....
 

Tommyboy

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Messages
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do you think the single high dose would work well for a mod habit (150-250mg oxy/day)? i know pretty much nil about H, so can't make the comparison....
It depends on how long you have had that habit for. Also, if the single high dose doesn't work then you can just continue tapering once the withdrawals get to be too much to bear again.
 

jiveturkey11

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
18
It depends on how long you have had that habit for. Also, if the single high dose doesn't work then you can just continue tapering once the withdrawals get to be too much to bear again.
i've been on opiates for abt 7 years, but didnt get to the 150-250mg/day until about the last 6 months or so. before that, i would average 100-150mg/day (and was prob at that for abt 2 years). also, i should wait 24hrs right? or is it better to try to wait longer than that? thanks again
 

Tommyboy

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Joined
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Messages
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NY
^ The longer you wait the better suboxone works. If you can wait 36 hours then do it. The worse you are feeling the better the suboxone can make you feel.

Your habit has been going on for a while, so you might want to look into a longer taper. My post was more for people who have only been on their run for around a year or so.
 

crzydiamond

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
998
Location
PA, USA
I want to do a quick sub detox....but I have a problem with it...any thoughts would be appreciated...
I have 2 3/4 strips of sub. I have a moderate habit--h, fent, oxy, etc. (prefer oral fentanyl but only one brand--nongel sandoz--actually works that way. I do about one half of a 75 mcg patch over about 2 days, half the patch makes about 5 strips for me). If I am only doing h I do like 3 bags at a time, like 2-4 times a day. Here's my issue, and I have read and read others' experiences but I don't find anything like mine!! I cannot make the switch to sub!! I WANT to do a quick detox but I ended up in precipitated WD both times I tried. First time was my fault--didn't understand how it worked and took in the morning after dosing the night before (maybe 12 hours later), and when I was merely uncomfortable, not in bad WD. I did some reading on here and learned what happened. So...
The second time I waited 36 hours after my last dose...and that was a 2 bag of h dose at like 8 pm. I took 1 mg of sub at 10 am the day after next. Felt worse. Thought maybe I needed more, so took another 1 mg. At that point I went into all WD symptoms, was running for bathroom! I was taking about 10-12 mg of loperamide each day after stopping h though...I imagine that was the problem? Honestly after the 36 hours I didn't feel good but I was not in severe WD, could function but exhausted and had minor WD. I had work so I thought if I took a small amount of sub I would be good to go to work. WRONG! Ended up feeling 100 times worse, called off work, tried fentanyl and it did NOTHING (that precip WD is NO joke!), tried h after about 4 hours of misery and it helped a little--enough to stay off the toilet and stop throwing up. I couldn't feel the effects of any opiate properly for about 2 days. I know everyone's chemistry is different, but it really surprised me to be in precip WD after only taking immodium, and only 10-12 mg per day. And like I said, the bupe affected me for another 2 days as a blocker. All I want to do is get off of everything. I have tapered down a lot over past few months. I just can't do cold turkey--i have done that in the past with both h and methadone. But I have too many responibilities to be able to take 3-5 days to lay around n suffer. I have to be able to function. Thus, thought that the sub in small doses could prevent the worst of the WD. Obviously other people manage to get onto it. I just can't seem to get a first dose without feeling worse than when i take it. Any thought from some people who may have had similar experiences?
 

jones-in_J

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Take immodium AFTER the sub (a few hours at least) not before thats the only reason i could see that u went into wds cuz 36i hrs should have been plenty of time otherwise. Try going with no immodium at all actually and if desperate take it a good ammount of time between sub doses and def not to close to before a dose
 

sickofthisshiz

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Sep 23, 2012
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Nor Cal
Quick sub taper is the most painless way to detox...have done it several times with only one or two subs over four days and you ALMOST dont feel the Wd's at all. I am a total bitch about withdrawal...have done it so many times....yuk.
 

sickofthisshiz

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Sep 23, 2012
Messages
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Nor Cal
I thought the naloxone blocks the bupe if you iv it...l have seen people snorting, smoking or iving subs...l always thought it was kind of retarded. Like ya really want to quit? But idk do these ROAs work?
 

Captain.Heroin

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I thought the naloxone blocks the bupe if you iv it...l have seen people snorting, smoking or iving subs...l always thought it was kind of retarded. Like ya really want to quit? But idk do these ROAs work?
Buprenorphine has a higher affinity for the mu-opioid receptor than naloxone does, so you can definitely IV/IM buprenorphine via micron filtered Suboxone.
 

sickofthisshiz

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Okay...but do you get high from it? And l mean if someone really wants to quit often the smoking or needles are a huge part of the addiction ...to me anyways. Sublingual ROA...doesn't get me all excited.
 
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