Opioids Bernese Method

Hanjo

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i think only people who have a light addiction can do it. if i take buprenorphine i immediately go in withdrawal. And taking Heroin + buprenorphine will displace the heroin from your receptor because bupe has an affinity extremly higher than heroin. so the heroin is just for psychologic.

Maybe it can work but you have to really microdose the bupe 0.25mg is way too much

Try that when you're on high dose methadone, or on high dose of very good dope and you will cry
 

Hanjo

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Thank you for the day to day postings. This was a really interesting and rare read. Not many people have to the balls to try this method due to fear of PWD. Another thing however, everyone?s different. I know people who can take a sub after 12 hours an be fine. Also I know people who can take a sub at 21-22 hours an go into precipitation. It all depends on your body I guess. That?s the only thing holding me back from experimenting with this method.

Anyways, I had been on subs for 5 days an had a 2 day vacation like the idiotic addict I am. I?m hoping I can take a sub at my 24 hour mark today without experiencing WD in general. I keep getting 4-5-6 days on the subs an as soon as I feel normal again I take a trip. Insanity. I?m gonna shoot for the moon this time. It?s getting old and I?m sick of hearing my norm of a GF bitch. Lol



Lastly, congrats on the successful Bernese method. Prettty incredible. It?s almost like outsmarting heroin addiction lol I?m out of here though. Later guys!



-SouthShoreMassachussetts

I think the time required to dont go in withdrawal is related with the severity of addiction. When i started Heroin i could take bupe with heroin at the same time withouth going in withdrawal but after a 1 years non-stop good quality heroin even after 24 h ( of withdrawal) i was going in WD
 

Jekyl Anhydride

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It does, for some, but there's a science to it and a fairly strict regime. Study up on it before attempting it if you think it's right for you and the fear of PWD is the only thing keeping you from getting on to a stable ORT program. It's about starting out with minuscule doses of subs instead of the usual 2-4-8mg induction. But again, study, study, study before attempting or use the link to print out the method and discuss it with your doctor.
 

Juxton

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Look, it?s easy. It doesn?t matter how huge your habit is, anyone can kick in 4 days. That?s how long it takes for the H to leave your system. You only need 3 subs max, for 3 days. In fact, you don?t want to go over 3 or 4 days, because then you?ll start to form a sub habit. You will feel like shit, but prepare for it. Benzo?s, Gabapentin/Lyrica, and weed, when used with the Subs, will make it painless. Don?t taper your sub dose, increase it. You want your last dose to be the highest. Start small and work your way up. The big dose on your last day (day 3 or 4) will carry you through, because of the long half life. DON?T drag it out. Any longer than a 3 or 4 day detox, and your only hurting yourself. And don?t taper the subs, increase the dose over the 3 days. This method was developed by the medical director of the biggest rehab in Philadelphia (the H capital of America) after almost 20 years of trial and error. It works, trust me. Just stock up on benzo?s, weed, or Gabapentin, take off work for 4 days, and be done with it.
 

Lucy20

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I'm down to 26mg of methadone and I start this next week at .2 . My doctor said I'd be fine as long as I stick to taking the suboxone and don't miss doses
I've came down from over 100mg and I cant wait to be done. I have no cravings at all, I just don't want to be to sick and I've heard that subs are easier to quit then methadone

I'll let you know how it goes and wish me luck

My doctor is starting on .2 first day then .2 2x day, then .4 2x day, .8 2x day etc. By day 5 I'll be off methadone completely. I really hope this works and I don't get sick. I'm trying not to think of sickness though because the mind can drive you to it just by over thinking
 
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Lucy20

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Im down to 26mg of methadone and im strongly thinking of trying this. They have been doing it at my new clinic for about 6 months and havent had anyone go into pwd . Im pretty sure being dope sick a few times tramatized me a bit.
I may wait until im down to 20mg but im pretty sure i will be msking the switch.
Ive heard bupe wd is a bit easier then methadone
 

kinkyjohn

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I don't see why it wouldn't work, if done properly, over a long enough period of time, you'd either have to go slow, or calibrate the doses just right and be very strict in your regimen.

I actually tried doing something like this like over a decade ago before I had ever heard of suboxone, with naltrexone, I couldn't ever get it to work right though, it wasn't that I got precipated WD, it was the naltrexone was dampening my high and I was too much of an addict and would stop taking it, even though the plan was to quit taking oxy(hadn't moved on to heroin full time yet). But it was the exact same idea.
Interesting to hear about your ideas as I have to say I do this very successfully with every withdrawal with bupe. I found small doses of bupe insulfated don't precipitate withdrawal (0.5mg bupe max ~ 25mg my pills for myself, 70kg male) and can be repeated every 45 mins or so without further full agonist doses till you have enough to avoid withdrawal .. well .. in me at least. When you get it down you can get almost no withdrawal at all except a fair amount of time in the bathroom and some mild fluttering feelings. I find if I get this right then I have almost no cravings a week or two later when I stop the bupe. Crazy how much effect even a day of WD has on cravings.

It's kind of like the burmese method .. but without the self control and no further doses of full agonists. Give me a bag of dope and a bag of bupe .. and guess what happens next .. go on ... and I've never been one for socially normalised drug use .. so go figure.

Done this about 10 times. Keep meaning to set up a thread with references, doses and methodology for others who might like to try but since my hypothesis is tested on only one person and requires a lot of patience and care, plus insulfation it may not be easily and safely applied by all and you really shouldn't try it based on just what I've said above unless you eat precipitated withdrawal for breakfast before you do a ten mile run. As a fent user I don't know what the fuss is about precipitated withdrawal myself .. you can only feel so much pain before reality just dissolves and it's over before you even have time to get dangerously dehydrated or hypothermia or anything. Obviously .. it also pays to be careful when interpreting a fent users concepts of "withdrawal."
 

Lucy20

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I started yesterday, i took .5 of suboxone with 24mg of methadone yesterday and today, felt fine other then very mild wd's .
Tomorrow i take 1mg and go up by .5 a day til i get to 3mg then im done methadone. Once the methadone is done i'm starting to taper the subs.
I can't wait to be done with visiting a methadone clinic every week . Especially after some crackhead decided he would follow me around the clinic and walk me to my car every week
 

LSDiesel

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I am contemplating attempting a Bernese Method transfer to subs, but I need your help guys! I need support, guidance and advice from BLers who have input and have done a successful Bernese. I am an extremely private addict and fairly high functioning, and what attracts me most about this method is that I will need minimum outside help. I despise 12 steps forced and the whole rehab private industry which is 90% farce. I will be honest, I am not even looking to necessarily quit, but I am not going to lie to myself and say that I can keep going on at my current rate.

So some background. I have been going on and off H, dilaudid, methadone and oxy for a while. 24 hours of abstinence leaves me in very bad shape. It has been harder for me to find methadone recently, but I have lots of suboxone. and if I understand correctly, the Bernese Method allows you to skip withdrawal altogether? (if done correctly)

So I can survive on a half G a day but a G puts me more what I really like, or roughly 100mg oxy or like 40-50mg methadone a day. So.. I suppose I am looking to see how much full agonist I should get in order to do this. I know it will vary for everyone, and some do it in 3 days, some in a week, but what has worked for you guys?

Oh, and I should also state what my goal is: I would like to be stable on as minimal of buprenorphine as possible, ideally so that I can even get buzzes from doing microdoses.

I should mention also that I have Xanax, Lomotil, Gabapentin, street speed(US west coast), LSD, Weed at my disposal if that can help to speed the process along or help cut my full agonist doses down more quickly.

I have already prepared my signafigant other to get ready to help me with a "dosing regimen" but I have yet to figure out what is my best guestimate for my Bernese scheduale.

Can this be done in 1 week? 5 days? (With minimum w/d). I know I saw someone say that they had little WD but "alot of time in the bathroom"? Does this just mean runny stool? I suppose that Lomotil and Immodium could take care of that if done correctly.

So how does this plan look?

Day 1. Wake up-put .1 MG (100mic) of suboxone sublingual (I have strips). And take full agonist regular morning dose.(Either a pill or a shot)

Mid-morning full agonist dose (if H, smoked)

Midday put .05MG 50 mic of suboxone sublingual And regular full agonist dose

Mid-afternoon .05MG 50 mic of suboxone sublingual, 50mic snorted for 100mic total suboxonone along with full agonist dose

Evening 80% of a full agonist dose alone

Bedtime: .1MG / 100mic suboxone sublingual along with a full agonist regular dose


Day 2: Wake up:

.2 mg (200mic) suboxone sublingual 80% of full agonist dose

Mid morning- 50% of full agonist dose with a 50mic suboxone snort

Midday - .1 MG (100mic) suboxone sublingual along with 80% full agonist dose

Mid-afternoon 50% full agonist dose

Evening 50% full agonist dose

Bedtime: .2 mg (200mic) suboxone sublingual 80% full agonist dose


Day 3 Wake up

.3 mg (300mic suboxone subligual 75% full agonist dose

Midday .1mg suboxone 60% full agonist dose

Mid-afternoon -see how i feel, maybe first time I attempt a .1mg sub alone

Evening .2mg suboxone 60% full agonist dose

Bedtime: Hopefully Xanax/gabapentin mixed with like a 20% full agonist will put me to sleep

Day 4 Wake up

.3mg subxone 50% full agonist dose (maybe some speed/xanax if things are rough)

Midday .1mg AND 20% Full agonist

Mid-afternoon .1mg AND 20% Full agonist

Evening: .2mg Suboxone and 50% full agonist

Bedtime: Heavy Xanax/Gabapentin/Weed, 20% full agonist:


Day 5 Wake up

.4mg suboxone with 20 % full agonist dose

Mid-morning-xanax/speed if needed

Midday .1MG suboxone with 20% full agonist dose

Mid-afternoon-Xanax if needed

Evening .2mg suboxone 30% full agonist dose

Bedtime: Heavy Xanax/Gabapentin/Weed, no full agonist

Day 5: wakeup

.5 mg suboxone 20% full agonist dose

Midday .25 mg suboxone (with xanax if W/D or cravings are bad

Mid-afternoon: smoke a joint

Evening .25mg suboxone 20% full agonist dose

Day 6: wakeup

.5mg suboxone and speed/xanax instead of a full agonist

.5mg etc etc




So what do y'all think? Personally I am scared of bupe cause of the PWDs. With this really rough plan though, I would need roughly 3 days worth of gear to last me through about 6 days or a week. I do need to make all the doses measured out ahead of time, including the full agonist doses and have a family member dispense them for me.

The thing that I know many people will say is that the bupe doses are just too insanely low, but I don't want to be taking more than 1mg a day of bupe, ever if possible.

Anyway, please, advice/comments on how to best execute my plan? Thanks Jackyl Anhydride fore making this thread!

I need to go on subs at least until my poppies grow to maturity!
 
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Angelkiss1682

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Oct 8, 2018
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Wow. I'm so sorry I don't have helpful advice but this is really interesting. For me, it's a lot of planning and calculating...part of what annoys me most about being on anything. And what if it doesn't work? Then I'd be franticly trying to figure out the best way to manage the wd. I had precipitated withdrawal once and I'm positive it scarred me for life. I believe I have PTSD from that! Lol...it's dramatic but true. So (for me) being happy, not ever in wd, without cravings and living my life productively is SO WORTH popping a sub 2-3 times a week! Is the benefit of this method that you don't have to go into wd before starting the sub? The more I think it through the more convinced I am that the risks massively outweigh the potential benefits. If you can go 12 hours after a short acting agonist you'll be home free to start subs. You mentioned going 24 hrs do I think it'll be way easier than you think. Again, just my opinion.
 

Ready2LiveAgain

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This was an amazing post that you so much OP. I think I am going to give this method a try since I typically have to wait 24+ hours to avoid PWD’s

But just so I’m clear the basic idea is to still be on a low dose of heroin/methadone/fentanyl while starting to take very small doses of suboxone (.02 mg)? While at the same time while slowly increasing the suboxone while simultaneously lowering the use of the heroin/methadone/fentanyl?

Thanks again so much! I feel like there might finally be hope!
 

NicoOregon

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Hello,

I've not posted in a long time, I still lurk from time to time as Bluelight continues to be my 'go to' place regarding anything drug related.

I've been on H for almost 4 years now, my girlfriend for 3. The first year I was snorting and dabbling with smoking, eventually I became a full-time chaser. I never thought I'd pick up the needle, but it eventually happened just a few months ago. On a plus side, it's been a major wake up call for me, it's made me realise how much my life, and my girlfriends life, has spiralled out of control. We were living in bubble for a few years, now we're stabbing ourselves 4 time a day - I seem to find a vein okay, but it's been very difficult for my girlfriend, which is the thing that scares me the most, her arms, the constant pain etc., I feel like we're doing damage to her. I weigh out every shot we take, we use clean works every-time, I'm quite OCD that way, but enough is enough now.

We've been on subs before, but the whole 24hr waiting to induct thing we find extremely difficult - so I've been reading about the Bernese Method where H and sub use is overlapped until it meets in the middle, avoiding PWD and the need to be in WD for 24hrs.

For anyone who has ever tried this way, and it's worked, I would be grateful if you would give your thoughts on my plan below:

Day 1 - 0.25mg Bupe (SL) + 1.4g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 2 - 0.25mg Bupe (SL) + 1.2g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 3 - 0.5mg Bupe (SL) + 1g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 4 - 1mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + 0.8g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 5 - 2mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + 0.8g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 6 - 3mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + 0.5g H (divided by 4 shots over the day)
Day 7 - 6mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + First day of no H
Day 8 - 8mg Bupe (SL) (divided twice over the day) + Second day of no H

The idea is to micro-dose Bupe, as it has a longer half life than H it will build in your system, but as you are taking small doses at first it will avoid PWD, plus the need to wait 24hrs in pain. On day 7 if I feel fine I will not bother upping the dose to 8mg, I could even lower it and play around until I feel fine on the lowest dose.

Has anyone tried this and been successful, it's been attempted in Sweden (I think), you can Google the reports online. Some folk have mentioned it on Bluelight before, but they seem to start at higher doses than recommended which would lead to PWD.

Cheers!
I believe the OP 100%. This method works for me. I always make sure to have a microdose of bupe in me. However, the way I found out was I accidentally took 2 subutex that I thought were asprin. The pills I receive from the pharmacy are small, white non discript pills. I felt a little "off" but no where near PWD.
 

Ready2LiveAgain

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I believe the OP 100%. This method works for me. I always make sure to have a microdose of bupe in me. However, the way I found out was I accidentally took 2 subutex that I thought were asprin. The pills I receive from the pharmacy are small, white non discript pills. I felt a little "off" but no where near PWD.
Thank you for the response.

To be fair it was 3-4 grams of a heroin/fent mix but these days dealers use more and more fent in the mix so it really is mostly fent.

As an update, I took 10 red bali kratom capsules about 10 hours after my last fent use along with a 1mg benzo. Felt relatively fine for most of the day (runny nose, lethargic, the shits), but overall not horrible.

I started to read up on the Bernese Method, and so around 20 hours since last fent use I took a very small suboxone sliver (maybe 0.25), and felt fine. I then followed it with a very small bump of fent (maybe ~.3), and had zero PWD! Just slight hot/cold chills and body aches but very mild.

I plan to take another benzo tonight with some gabapentin to sleep for a few hours hopefully.

In the AM I am going to take another micro dose of suboxone, and then another very small fent bump.

My plan is to slowly increase the suboxone over the next few days while slowly decreasing the fent until I can feel comfortable just with the subs.

From what I have read, allowing the fent & sub to be “roommates” initially without having the sub entirely kick out the fent all at once has worked for many people, and although only 1 day in so far it seems to be working. I still am able to eat and function (low energy), but that’s really about it.

Really hoping this works because I’ve gone through the nightmare of PWD’s too many times, and they had continued to fuel my fent abuse out of fear.

If this works it really could be a great new way for people to also avoid PWD’s by easing into the transition instead of making the abrupt painful switch.
 

Lucy20

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i think only people who have a light addiction can do it. if i take buprenorphine i immediately go in withdrawal. And taking Heroin + buprenorphine will displace the heroin from your receptor because bupe has an affinity extremly higher than heroin. so the heroin is just for psychologic.

Maybe it can work but you have to really microdose the bupe 0.25mg is way too much

Try that when you're on high dose methadone, or on high dose of very good dope and you will cry

I did the switch from methadone, i was only at 30mg but the other guina pig at my doctor's was on 85mg and we both switched almost painlessly
 
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