Stimulants Avoid Adderall if your brain is important to you

[swisscurrie]

I'm writing this thread because there is the misconception that amphetamine is a safe drug. It is thought of as being safe due to the fact that it is legally prescribed in some countries (United States being the primary consumer) and has been used for more than 80 years. If your interested in reading about the history of amphetamine and the extent of its use throughout the 20th century then I can recommend this article:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377281/

Amphetamine is far from a safe drug, despite assertions from the FDA and pharmaceutical companies that it is a safe and effective treatment for the "disorder" ADHD. I believe that there are a a set of symptoms which are labelled under the term ADHD that can impair an individuals functioning in daily life. I don't believe that prescribing a potent neurotoxin is the solution to these symptoms.

Administering modest dosages of Amphetamine and Methamphetamine have been shown to be one of, if not the most effective ways destroying the dopaminergic pathways of animals. There are thousands of studies on the neurotoxicity of amphetamines in animals (especially rodents and primates), none of which are mentioned on the FDA reviewed medication guides of amphetamine or methamphetamine containing products (Adderall, Dexedrine, Desoxyn). There are studies emerging that indicate that the neurotoxicity of amphetamines apply to humans as well, even at therapeutic dosages.

Below I have linked some studies in animals and humans which sum the issue of neurotoxicity associated with amphetamines up nicely. It is important to note, that unlike amphetamine, Methamphetamine is also a potent serotinergic neurotoxin.

Amphetamine (applies to racemic amphetamine and dextroamphetamine) neurotoxicity in aminal studies:

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/315/1/91.full

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v20/n1/full/1395233a.html
I also recommed reading the PDF available online titled Amphetamine-Induced Dopaminergic neurotoxicity: A single dose animal model of Parkinsons Disease


Amphetamine neurotoxicity in human studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25394786

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23415394

https://www.aan.com/PressRoom/home/PressRelease/904

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21794992


Methamphetamine neurotoxicity in animal studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7552263

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/18/1/419.full.pdf

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/bn/2015/103969/

http://perspectivesinmedicine.cshlp.org/content/1/1/a009316.full


Methamphetamine neurotoxicity in human studies:

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/24/26/6028.full.pdf

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/18/1/419.full.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769923/


I realize that I'm going to be criticized for attaching studies led by Dr. George Ricaurte. I want to make it clear that Ricaurte single faulty study on MDMA's dopaminergic neurotoxicity, which was published in 2002 and quickly retracted, was due to the fact that Ricaurte had ordered on the same day two batches, one containing 10 grams of Methamphetamine and the other 10 grams of MDMA from a trusted supplier (Research Triangle Institute). The supplier had apparently swapped the labels on the identical looking batches. Ricaurte and his team quickly became aware of the fact that they could not reproduce their findings of MDMA's dopaminergic neurotoxicity in primates from other batches of MDMA and therefore employed Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry of their original batch which revealed that it was in fact Methamphetamine. They retracted the article as soon as they found this out. Discrediting almost two decades worth of his research because of a mistake that one of his suppliers made is ridiculous.

I hope I have made it evident from the studies provided above that Amphetamine and Methamphetamine are potent neurotoxins. If you decide to continue to use amphetamines despite this information, then I highly recommend you:

-Stay cool (avoid hot temperatures and excercise).
-Take a Magnesium supplement with a high bioavailability (avoid Magnesium Oxide)
-Take a multivitamin that contains Vitamins A, C, D and E.
-Keep your dosage low.
-Avoid sources Monosodium glutamate (MSG) in your diet as this can increase the excitoxicity induced by amphetamines.
-Get plenty of sleep.
-Take atleast a one week break inbetween the use of amphetamines.

If you have never taken an amphetamine before then I strongly recommend that you continue to steer clear.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Amphetamine or Adderall/Dexedrine has been shown to be non-neurotoxic.

Meth on the other hand is extremely neurotoxic.

If Amphetamine/Adderall/Dexedrine were neurotoxic even in extremely high doses we would know it by now as it's been one of the most extensively studied drugs for decades.

 

[swisscurrie]

Amphetamine or Adderall/Dexedrine has been shown to be non-neurotoxic. According to you?

The unrestricted use of amphetamine throughout the 20th century caused countless reports of drug induced psychosis. Researchers have speculated that amphetamine induced psychosis is strongly linked to amphetamine induced neurotoxicity, especially as 10-15% of patients fail to recover.

The studies I linked above clearly link amphetamine use to an increased risk of parkinsons disease resulting from the destruction of the brain dopaminergic pathways. They also show that otherwise young and healthy dextroamphetamine users suffer from monaminergic dysfunction.

Your claim that Methamphetamine is extremely neurotoxic and Amphetamine is not is unfounded.

 

[Thomas29]

key is not using Daily Cause NO MATTER WHAT you will Burn out from the side effects your brain and body is just not meant for Stimulants non stop.... Well Least Me And the Majority of the Population I had Ritalin for A.D.D. and got off when I lost to much weight after 3 years use when i was 8-11 years Old.

 

[swisscurrie]

I agree that occassional use of some types of stimulants is unlikely to do harm. You can use a Norepinephrine-Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor like Methylphenidate (Ritalin) or a Serotonin-Norephinephrine-Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor like Cocaine on a regular basis without harming your brain. In contrast to amphetamines, there is some evidence that NDRI's like Cocaine and Ritalin could provide protection against the development of parkinsons disease.

The neurotoxic stimulants are the Releasing agents. Common neurotoxic Monoamine releasing agents include D-Methamphetamine, Dextroamphetamine, Methcathinone, MDA and to a lesser extent MDMA. Although Adderall is considered by most to be far safer than MDMA, it is actually neurotoxic in animal models at doses used by humans while MDMA only starts becoming neurotoxic in primate models at dosages of around 5mg/kg. This dosage is three times more than what most recreational users use, making me doubt that MDMA causes any problems in the majority of responsible users.

 

[Dresden]

Adderall and methamphetamine are simply not nearly as neurotoxic as most people seem to believe. If they were, they both wouldn't be available by prescription at your local neighborhood pharmacy and would have killed me a long time ago.

 

[swisscurrie]

Adderall and Methamphetamine are far more neurotoxic than most people believe. Millions of people in the U.S. are abusing amphetamine and it is barely frowned upon. This stems from the fact that this pharmaceutical speed is legally prescribed to people of all ages who often end up diverting t their medication to people without ADHD. I study European Public Health and can assure you that the primary reason that methylphenidate is the only stimulant available for use in most European countries is because amphetamine is well known as a potent neurotoxin here.

Just because Meth hasn't killed you doesn't mean it hasn't taken a toll on your brain. From the research ive done I strongly believe that every Methamphetamine user has a certain degree of brain damage. Even a single use of Meth permanently sensitizes the brain to the rewarding effects of subsequent doses. After the first few exposures a tolerance to the effects starts to build, and this tolerance has been shown to correlate strongly with neurotoxicity. In other words, if you have a long lasting tolerance to the effects of Meth then you likely have brain damage.

 

[pocketsevens]

Amphetamine or Adderall/Dexedrine has been shown to be non-neurotoxic.

Meth on the other hand is extremely neurotoxic.

If Amphetamine/Adderall/Dexedrine were neurotoxic even in extremely high doses we would know it by now as it's been one of the most extensively studied drugs for decades.

Did you read any of the articles he shared? Clearly not, because the first one I clicked showed evidence that d-amphetamine causes dysfunction in the dopaminergic system. You can't just say he's wrong because that's what you used to believe before, or because that's what you wish was true. Look at the evidence. I wish it wasn't true either but it sort of makes sense doesn't it?

I was put on Adderall in middle school, up to 60mg extended release. I. Got. So. High. But every single night I would cry from the come downs. And I barely ever slept. It was miserable. I'm not at all surprised that it fucked up my brain.

 

[pocketsevens]

OP, may I ask what your background is on this subject? You seem to be very knowledgeable. Is there any evidence of recovery of the dopaminergic pathways after stopping use? I find this very depressing... I was put on Adderall when I was a child with little control over the situation. I've suffered from depression my whole life and this could be why. It could also be why drugs that increase dopamine, such as oxycodone, seem to make me feel right, what I imagine "normal" people feel like.

I was born with a heart problem called mitral valve prolapse, and when I was 22 my mitral valve completely ruptured. They never told me why this happened, but I truly believe that Adderall could have contributed to what was a mild heart problem at birth. Now my heart issues keep me from living the life I want.

Take heed of what this person is saying and if you don't believe them, do the research yourself. Look at the links OP posted because they're valid sources. If you're going to keep using Adderall, at least don't do it while you're living in denial. I was in denial for a long time because that used to be how I dealt with my problems, and I almost died because of it. Face the truth.

 

[tricomb]

It's been proven over and over that regular amphetamines are way less toxic vs methamphetamine. Honestly I think it has more to do with how often it's abused and how high one is dosing....

 

[pocketsevens]

Well yes they are definitely less toxic than straight up meth, but that doesn't mean they're not toxic at all.

 

[tricomb]

I never said they were non toxic. I specifically said less toxic. Even with prescription USP grade dextro-methamphetamine, I don't think one is necessarily doomed if they are taking Rx doses like say 10-40mg. Abusing these medications at higher doses is another matter altogether.

 

[swisscurrie]

Hey PocketStevens, I'm sorry to hear you got put on such a large dose of Adderall at such a young age. I studied Public Health in Europe and we discussed this topic with a great deal of concern. While studying for my finals at high school, before doing my research about the consequences, I took pharmaceutical Dextroamphetamine/20mg a day for one month. I noticed a permanent reduction in my ability to experience pleasure after quitting even that low dose/short time use. It negatively effected my personality in other ways too. I am saying this to let you know that your not alone, and that there are many others who were adversly effected by legally prescribed speed.

I'm gonna be honest with you...60mg/a day of adderall is a huge amount and some damage to your dopaminergic neurons likely occured. From the animal studies I've studied, the damage appears to be permanent. This is made evident from follow ups on the monkeys several years later where the damage is still present. The increased risk of Parkinsons disease in past amphetamine users is another indication that permanent damage occurs. Despite the possible damage, it doesn't mean that your life is over. I have learned to cope with some of the negative personality changes I aquired from my affair with dextroamphetamine.

If you haven't tried these already, then I can recommend the following supplements for depression/anxiety caused by amphetamine:

-High dosage Magnesium (300-500mg/day). Magnesium Glycinate and Citrate have both worked well for me.

-Omega 3 Fatty Acids. Those high in EPA seem to help the most with depression.

- A Multivitamin with high amounts of Vitamins C, D and E.

-Citocoline (CDP-Choline) is a natural nootropic that increases dopamine levels in the brain abs has been shown to have some effectiveness in treating depression.

May I ask how long you took the adderall for, and if there were any supplements/medications you took with it?

 

[swisscurrie]

In animal studies, there is little evidence that Methamphetamine is more neurotoxic to dopamine neurons than regular amphetamine or that it causes more Oxidative stress/excitotoxicity, with most studies conducted showing them to be equally potent in this regard. As far as I'm aware, no direct comparisons of the dopaminergic neurotoxic potential of Dextroamphetamine vs. Methamphetamine have been conducted in humans. Methamphetamine is more neurotoxic to serotonin neurons, and that has been proven in both animals and humans. I believe that the difference in neurotoxicity of amphetamine vs methamphetamine is vastly overstated.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I study European Public Health and can assure you that the primary reason that methylphenidate is the only stimulant available for use in most European countries is because amphetamine is well known as a potent neurotoxin here.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/825672

I didn't read anything about potential neurotoxicity in that article...it seems like what held it back from getting approval in the past was concerns about abuse of the drug & cardiovascular issues. (I myself was curious about why d-amphetamine wasn't prescribed in Europe so I looked it up and that was one of the first articles)

This is entirely anecdotal, of course, but I've abused the hell out of stimulant drugs in the past and I haven't noticed much of a change in my mental faculties, either in regards to cognitive functioning or personality...although I would never argue that it's bad for my health generally-speaking.

 

[swisscurrie]

I studied in the Netherlands, the country in your link that was opposed to the approval of Dexamphetamin. Maybe thats why the problems associated with its use is discussed as being a more important issue here.

Just because the article doesn't mention neurotoxicity as being the reason that it wasn't approved doesn't mean it wasn't put into consideration. If you read the full report, Note that the approval was for its use only after an extended, high dose trial of methylphenidate had been exhausted. A high dosage of Strattera, either alone or in combination with methylphenidate is usually also tried first. I haven't witnessed it being frequently prescribed in Europe yet, and from the research I've done showing that it is clearly neurotoxic in humans, I hope it remains that way.

 

[pbuilder]

I think the important thing with amphetamines it to make sure you stick to therapeutic doses, no more then maybe 40mg of adderall or Dexedrine a day, make sure you eat healthy, take a bioavailabile magnesium supplement, sleep every night, and take atleast a day or two off a week, even if you are prescribed it for adhd. I think I've read that amphetamines in low doses actually have some neuroprotective qualities. At least pharma methamphetamine i know apparently in low doses protects the brain from trauma after an accident to the head.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Well, fair enough. I'm just skeptical about how grave the neurological dangers are for d-amphetamine because I've known quite a few people who have been on regiments of the drug (as do many people here I imagine, it's quite commonly prescribed here in the USA) and I've never seen any indication of cognitive decline or mental problems (in fact IME they tend for the most part to be quite stable and intelligent). Some of whom are adults now and have been on the drug since childhood.

But I will read the links you posted and investigate further when I have the time. Neurology and psychopharmacology are pet interests of mine so it'll be interesting. Right now I'm currently procrastinating over schoolwork and wasting time on Bluelight...

My own philosophy is that pretty much all psychotropic drugs carry risks...with opiates its dependence/addiction, with benzodiazepines it's that they're supposedly carcinogens, with amphetamines it's that they're neurotoxic, and there seems to be a whole host of messed up stuff associated with neuroleptics, etc. It's just risks you have to accept if you choose to take those drugs, though. Personally I was diagnosed randomly with a chronic, incurable illness well before I even really started using drugs, one which I had a 0.5% chance of contracting since I had no genetic history of it. I "did everything right" and I still got sick. So que sera sera, I guess.

 

[tricomb]

claro k si, lo que sera sera.. doesn't make it any better, but it's still true.

 

[customs]

I just got back from overseas - was averaging ~400mg of methylphenidate daily for ~28 days.

God damn, what a waste.

p.s. not adderall but still amphets in general, seriously fucked.